levothyroxine

September 3, 2007

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> usual Armour dose is 180--300mg.

Not according to the manufacturer. Their literature says not to go

beyond 3 grains (180 mg.)

Chuck

September 3, 2007

luckily we have the internet, and can get proper dosing info. why stay sick

on 180mg? in fact I don't know anyone on that dose!

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> usual Armour dose is 180--300mg.

Not according to the manufacturer. Their literature says not to go

beyond 3 grains (180 mg.)

Chuck

September 3, 2007

Elyse,

I apologize for saying you have refused to share your dosage on T4. I

realize you DID give us the dosage as 100 mcg. Again, this is below average.

Chuck

September 3, 2007

Chuck, I think we have gone over this before. I was receiving too much

synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was

palping so I needed to reduce. I have since fired that doc (because of his

nurse also his wife). I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4

grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid.

There is something in Armour that allows me more T4 than in synthyroid.

-- Re: levothyroxine

Elyse,

You wrote:

>

> So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of

no

> pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been

> down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own

> agenda....

I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully

accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or

need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works

for you.

However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and

others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the

evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never

received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms

of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor

judgment on the part of their doctor.

I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that

category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that

you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your

dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you

are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that

you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So,

please don't bother. I won't ask it again.

Chuck

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Messages

September 3, 2007

By Chuck's theory, when I stopped the Levo for 4 mths my pain should have

increased. It went away. When I went on Armour, it never came back...hmmmm.

Only other answer is could be the the Levo. Elyse

----- Original Message -----

Chuck, I think we have gone over this before. I was receiving too much

synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was

palping so I needed to reduce. I have since fired that doc (because of his

nurse also his wife). I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4

grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid.

There is something in Armour that allows me more T4 than in synthyroid.

Elyse,

You wrote:

>

> So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of

no

> pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been

> down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own

> agenda....

I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully

accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or

need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works

for you.

However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and

others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the

evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never

received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms

of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor

judgment on the part of their doctor.

I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that

category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that

you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your

dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you

are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that

you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So,

please don't bother. I won't ask it again.

Chuck

September 3, 2007

Whoever that might be.

-- Re: Re: levothyroxine

Suzanne,

You wrote:

>

> I think a poll on here is a brilliant idea. There are so many of us out

> here who just do not know what to believe

Again, I don't think a poll here would necessarily tell you what to

believe. However, it might illustrate the range of views we have and be

entertaining. will let the list owner set up a survey to which all

subscribers can respond (or not).

Chuck

September 3, 2007

Crystal,

You wrote:

>

> Chuck, I think we have gone over this before....

Probably have. My mind is like a steel trap ... rusted shut. Actually, I

just try to read too many lists at one time. I periodically find myself

responding to things on differently lists.

>...I was receiving too much

> synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was

> palping so I needed to reduce....

Are you sure? Palpitations can happen with hypoT, also. Did you have any

other hyperT symptoms, or was it a constellation of hypoT with

palpitations? What was your TSH doing on this dose?

> ....I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4

> grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid.

Perhaps it just didn't work well with you hypoT and under treated,

although 125 mcg is enough for many. The amount you need, either

levothyroxine or Armour, depends on body mass.

Chuck

September 3, 2007

Elyse and Joe wrote:

>

> By Chuck's theory, when I stopped the Levo for 4 mths my pain should have

> increased. It went away....

At the same time, did other hypoT symptoms crash back on you?

Chuck

September 4, 2007

No. I can never remember being sensitive to it, although, I've always had

cold extremities. My hubby always asked why my butt was always cold. I

would just ask him why he kept touching it. LOL. However, I no longer have

this. SO what other conditions do you have besides hypo-T?

-- Re: levothyroxine

Crystal,

Well, I'm not sure either way. Hair loss and brain fog go with a number

of conditions besides hypoT, including reactions to other ingredients.

The hypoT symptom that most seem to remember clearly is sensitivity to

cold. Did you have that?

You wrote:

>

> I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only

hypo

> thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked

> for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read

> over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use

to

> put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still

haven

> t passed that stage yet.

Chuck

September 5, 2007

Maybe someone has already asked about this, but I'm still getting through all

these e-mails so forgive me if I'm repeating, but, how was your doctors wife

in the picture?

Chuck, I think we have gone over this before. I was receiving too much

synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was

palping so I needed to reduce. I have since fired that doc (because of his

nurse also his wife). I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4

grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid.

There is something in Armour that allows me more T4 than in synthyroid.

-- Re: levothyroxine

Elyse,

You wrote:

>

> So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of

no

> pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been

> down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own

> agenda....

I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully

accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or

need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works

for you.

However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and

others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the

evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never

received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms

of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor

judgment on the part of their doctor.

I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that

category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that

you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your

dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you

are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that

you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So,

please don't bother. I won't ask it again.

Chuck

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Messages

September 5, 2007

I have recovered so much since getting treated for my hashi's and taking

armour but sometimes I feel like a full recovery is just never going to happen.

Sometimes I even feel totally back to normal but it deffinitely takes much

less for it to slip away. Eating too much, going to bed too late, drinking more

than like a little bit, working, going to school, and strenuous activities all

really affect me. I went canoing with my boyfriends family once and then

couldn't stay awake or even read for like 3 days lol. It's interesting being

young

and not quite being able to keep up with my friends in many situations.

I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only hypo

thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked

for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read

over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use to

put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still haven

t passed that stage yet.

**************************************

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September 5, 2007

That is one heck of a story! I'm sure glad you fired them! I don't know why

some people in the medical profession think it is okay to talk to people like

that. I remember when I talked to my endo about not liking how low my T3 total

was and she yelled at me about all the bad things that could happen by raising

my dose. I was like shocked, what an insult, ya know?

In a message dated 9/5/07 3:29:30 PM, sweetnwright@... writes:

>

> She was his nurse. I saw him for 10 years she was only his nurse for the

> last two. From what the other nurses told me she got on their nerves too.

> I needed a " real " apt. (usually just went in for labs). So, I told the

> receptionist that I needed a well woman check because I was having pain in

> my breast. SO I went in and the nurse asked me what I was there for

> (policy) and I told her then she said, well I know he is gonna check this

> (forgot what that is now), but you weren't scheduled for a well woman. So

> you'll just have to ask him when he comes in. So I did. He gave me the

> gown to get into and left the room so I changed into it. Next thing I know,

> here comes nurse (wifey) and began telling me how disappointed she was

> in me knowing how many patients they have and how behind it puts them, blah

> blah blah. So I said well I don't want to put anyone behind and then I lost

> it and started bawling. I just got up and started getting dressed. In

> comes the doc with his head down and his wife was telling him " she's not

> staying for it. " Then got to saying its okay you can stay, blah blah blah.

> I just left out and told them to bill me for my co-pay. They never did.

> She then called me at home telling me how she has never had a patient leave

> like that. I asked her who she thought she was etc etc. I basically went

> off on her letting her know that there are other docs out there. I told her

> everything I wish I would have at the office. It is probably a good thing

> though. I was on synthroid and felt like he was helping me the best he

> could. I probably would have never found this group or Armour if it weren't

> for nurse Ratchet. He was the one who let my hypo go by for 5 years. He

> told me my cholesterol was high when I was 19. Dumb docs!

> Well now that that is out, whew. Guess you didn't was the whole story, but

> you got it anyway! Sorry.

>

**************************************

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September 5, 2007

She was his nurse. I saw him for 10 years she was only his nurse for the

last two. From what the other nurses told me she got on their nerves too.

I needed a " real " apt. (usually just went in for labs). So, I told the

receptionist that I needed a well woman check because I was having pain in

my breast. SO I went in and the nurse asked me what I was there for

(policy) and I told her then she said, well I know he is gonna check this

(forgot what that is now), but you weren't scheduled for a well woman. So

you'll just have to ask him when he comes in. So I did. He gave me the

gown to get into and left the room so I changed into it. Next thing I know,

here comes nurse (wifey) and began telling me how disappointed she was

in me knowing how many patients they have and how behind it puts them, blah

blah blah. So I said well I don't want to put anyone behind and then I lost

it and started bawling. I just got up and started getting dressed. In

comes the doc with his head down and his wife was telling him " she's not

staying for it. " Then got to saying its okay you can stay, blah blah blah.

I just left out and told them to bill me for my co-pay. They never did.

She then called me at home telling me how she has never had a patient leave

like that. I asked her who she thought she was etc etc. I basically went

off on her letting her know that there are other docs out there. I told her

everything I wish I would have at the office. It is probably a good thing

though. I was on synthroid and felt like he was helping me the best he

could. I probably would have never found this group or Armour if it weren't

for nurse Ratchet. He was the one who let my hypo go by for 5 years. He

told me my cholesterol was high when I was 19. Dumb docs!

Well now that that is out, whew. Guess you didn't was the whole story, but

you got it anyway! Sorry.

-- Re: levothyroxine

Elyse,

You wrote:

>

> So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of

no

> pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been

> down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own

> agenda....

I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully

accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or

need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works

for you.

However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and

others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the

evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never

received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms

of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor

judgment on the part of their doctor.

I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that

category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that

you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your

dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you

are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that

you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So,

please don't bother. I won't ask it again.

Chuck

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Messages

September 5, 2007

You made a point. I don;t think I have EVER felt normal. I have been hypo

all my life and just didn't know it until I was 24. I have pics of me on

Christmas morning sitting next to my wide eyed happy brother. I was the

little girl about to pass out from being so tired. Most families get up

early to open gifts, but I would finally get it together about noon. I also

chose to go to morning Kindergarten just so I could sleep in. Most docs

would only test TSH so of course I went un-rx'd forever!

-- Re: levothyroxine

I have recovered so much since getting treated for my hashi's and taking

armour but sometimes I feel like a full recovery is just never going to

happen.

Sometimes I even feel totally back to normal but it deffinitely takes much

less for it to slip away. Eating too much, going to bed too late, drinking

more

than like a little bit, working, going to school, and strenuous activities

all

really affect me. I went canoing with my boyfriends family once and then

couldn't stay awake or even read for like 3 days lol. It's interesting being

young

and not quite being able to keep up with my friends in many situations.

I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only hypo

thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked

for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read

over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use to

put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still haven

t passed that stage yet.

**************************************

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

September 5, 2007

Yuck, docs make me sick....no pun intended.

-- Re: levothyroxine

That is one heck of a story! I'm sure glad you fired them! I don't know why

some people in the medical profession think it is okay to talk to people

like

that. I remember when I talked to my endo about not liking how low my T3

total

was and she yelled at me about all the bad things that could happen by

raising