Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Gracia, You wrote: > > usual Armour dose is 180--300mg. Not according to the manufacturer. Their literature says not to go beyond 3 grains (180 mg.) Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 luckily we have the internet, and can get proper dosing info. why stay sick on 180mg? in fact I don't know anyone on that dose! Gracia Gracia, You wrote: > > usual Armour dose is 180--300mg. Not according to the manufacturer. Their literature says not to go beyond 3 grains (180 mg.) Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Elyse, I apologize for saying you have refused to share your dosage on T4. I realize you DID give us the dosage as 100 mcg. Again, this is below average. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Chuck, I think we have gone over this before. I was receiving too much synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was palping so I needed to reduce. I have since fired that doc (because of his nurse also his wife). I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4 grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid. There is something in Armour that allows me more T4 than in synthyroid. -- Re: levothyroxine Elyse, You wrote: > > So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of no > pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been > down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own > agenda.... I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works for you. However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor judgment on the part of their doctor. I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So, please don't bother. I won't ask it again. Chuck Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 By Chuck's theory, when I stopped the Levo for 4 mths my pain should have increased. It went away. When I went on Armour, it never came back...hmmmm. Only other answer is could be the the Levo. Elyse ----- Original Message ----- Chuck, I think we have gone over this before. I was receiving too much synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was palping so I needed to reduce. I have since fired that doc (because of his nurse also his wife). I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4 grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid. There is something in Armour that allows me more T4 than in synthyroid. Elyse, You wrote: > > So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of no > pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been > down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own > agenda.... I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works for you. However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor judgment on the part of their doctor. I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So, please don't bother. I won't ask it again. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Whoever that might be. -- Re: Re: levothyroxine Suzanne, You wrote: > > I think a poll on here is a brilliant idea. There are so many of us out > here who just do not know what to believe Again, I don't think a poll here would necessarily tell you what to believe. However, it might illustrate the range of views we have and be entertaining. will let the list owner set up a survey to which all subscribers can respond (or not). Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Crystal, You wrote: > > Chuck, I think we have gone over this before.... Probably have. My mind is like a steel trap ... rusted shut. Actually, I just try to read too many lists at one time. I periodically find myself responding to things on differently lists. >...I was receiving too much > synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was > palping so I needed to reduce.... Are you sure? Palpitations can happen with hypoT, also. Did you have any other hyperT symptoms, or was it a constellation of hypoT with palpitations? What was your TSH doing on this dose? > ....I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4 > grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid. Perhaps it just didn't work well with you hypoT and under treated, although 125 mcg is enough for many. The amount you need, either levothyroxine or Armour, depends on body mass. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Elyse and Joe wrote: > > > By Chuck's theory, when I stopped the Levo for 4 mths my pain should have > increased. It went away.... At the same time, did other hypoT symptoms crash back on you? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 No. I can never remember being sensitive to it, although, I've always had cold extremities. My hubby always asked why my butt was always cold. I would just ask him why he kept touching it. LOL. However, I no longer have this. SO what other conditions do you have besides hypo-T? -- Re: levothyroxine Crystal, Well, I'm not sure either way. Hair loss and brain fog go with a number of conditions besides hypoT, including reactions to other ingredients. The hypoT symptom that most seem to remember clearly is sensitivity to cold. Did you have that? You wrote: > > I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only hypo > thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked > for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read > over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use to > put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still haven > t passed that stage yet. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Maybe someone has already asked about this, but I'm still getting through all these e-mails so forgive me if I'm repeating, but, how was your doctors wife in the picture? Chuck, I think we have gone over this before. I was receiving too much synthroid with 125 mcg, but still had many hypo symptoms. My heart was palping so I needed to reduce. I have since fired that doc (because of his nurse also his wife). I am not optimized on Armour yet but I am up to 3 3/4 grains. I just think that my heart would have not tolerated more synthroid. There is something in Armour that allows me more T4 than in synthyroid. -- Re: levothyroxine Elyse, You wrote: > > So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of no > pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been > down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own > agenda.... I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works for you. However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor judgment on the part of their doctor. I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So, please don't bother. I won't ask it again. Chuck Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I have recovered so much since getting treated for my hashi's and taking armour but sometimes I feel like a full recovery is just never going to happen. Sometimes I even feel totally back to normal but it deffinitely takes much less for it to slip away. Eating too much, going to bed too late, drinking more than like a little bit, working, going to school, and strenuous activities all really affect me. I went canoing with my boyfriends family once and then couldn't stay awake or even read for like 3 days lol. It's interesting being young and not quite being able to keep up with my friends in many situations. I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only hypo thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use to put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still haven t passed that stage yet. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 That is one heck of a story! I'm sure glad you fired them! I don't know why some people in the medical profession think it is okay to talk to people like that. I remember when I talked to my endo about not liking how low my T3 total was and she yelled at me about all the bad things that could happen by raising my dose. I was like shocked, what an insult, ya know? In a message dated 9/5/07 3:29:30 PM, sweetnwright@... writes: > > She was his nurse. I saw him for 10 years she was only his nurse for the > last two. From what the other nurses told me she got on their nerves too. > I needed a " real " apt. (usually just went in for labs). So, I told the > receptionist that I needed a well woman check because I was having pain in > my breast. SO I went in and the nurse asked me what I was there for > (policy) and I told her then she said, well I know he is gonna check this > (forgot what that is now), but you weren't scheduled for a well woman. So > you'll just have to ask him when he comes in. So I did. He gave me the > gown to get into and left the room so I changed into it. Next thing I know, > here comes nurse (wifey) and began telling me how disappointed she was > in me knowing how many patients they have and how behind it puts them, blah > blah blah. So I said well I don't want to put anyone behind and then I lost > it and started bawling. I just got up and started getting dressed. In > comes the doc with his head down and his wife was telling him " she's not > staying for it. " Then got to saying its okay you can stay, blah blah blah. > I just left out and told them to bill me for my co-pay. They never did. > She then called me at home telling me how she has never had a patient leave > like that. I asked her who she thought she was etc etc. I basically went > off on her letting her know that there are other docs out there. I told her > everything I wish I would have at the office. It is probably a good thing > though. I was on synthroid and felt like he was helping me the best he > could. I probably would have never found this group or Armour if it weren't > for nurse Ratchet. He was the one who let my hypo go by for 5 years. He > told me my cholesterol was high when I was 19. Dumb docs! > Well now that that is out, whew. Guess you didn't was the whole story, but > you got it anyway! Sorry. > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 She was his nurse. I saw him for 10 years she was only his nurse for the last two. From what the other nurses told me she got on their nerves too. I needed a " real " apt. (usually just went in for labs). So, I told the receptionist that I needed a well woman check because I was having pain in my breast. SO I went in and the nurse asked me what I was there for (policy) and I told her then she said, well I know he is gonna check this (forgot what that is now), but you weren't scheduled for a well woman. So you'll just have to ask him when he comes in. So I did. He gave me the gown to get into and left the room so I changed into it. Next thing I know, here comes nurse (wifey) and began telling me how disappointed she was in me knowing how many patients they have and how behind it puts them, blah blah blah. So I said well I don't want to put anyone behind and then I lost it and started bawling. I just got up and started getting dressed. In comes the doc with his head down and his wife was telling him " she's not staying for it. " Then got to saying its okay you can stay, blah blah blah. I just left out and told them to bill me for my co-pay. They never did. She then called me at home telling me how she has never had a patient leave like that. I asked her who she thought she was etc etc. I basically went off on her letting her know that there are other docs out there. I told her everything I wish I would have at the office. It is probably a good thing though. I was on synthroid and felt like he was helping me the best he could. I probably would have never found this group or Armour if it weren't for nurse Ratchet. He was the one who let my hypo go by for 5 years. He told me my cholesterol was high when I was 19. Dumb docs! Well now that that is out, whew. Guess you didn't was the whole story, but you got it anyway! Sorry. -- Re: levothyroxine Elyse, You wrote: > > So you're pro loevothyroxine? I should dismiss my personal experience of no > pain and my doc and go back on Levo. ? What's your point? If you have been > down this road with someone else maybe you need to examine your own > agenda.... I am pro effective treatment. I do not have a personal agenda. I fully accept the fact that some people react to the incipient ingredients or need T3 in addition to T4. I am glad you found a medication that works for you. However, my point is that from what I have observed on this list and others, is that more often than not, the people who rail against the evils of Synthroid, and extol the virtues of Armour, have simply never received a proper T4 dose. Their " side effects " were actually symptoms of hypoT, which they never adequately treated, most often due to poor judgment on the part of their doctor. I was merely trying to see whether your problems with T4 fell in that category or not, since your side effects were consistent. The fact that you have repeatedly refused to answer a simple question about your dosage and have chosen an ad hominem approach instead, suggests that you are one with an agenda. Your effort at concealment makes me think that you probably wouldn't answer the question honestly now, anyway. So, please don't bother. I won't ask it again. Chuck Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 You made a point. I don;t think I have EVER felt normal. I have been hypo all my life and just didn't know it until I was 24. I have pics of me on Christmas morning sitting next to my wide eyed happy brother. I was the little girl about to pass out from being so tired. Most families get up early to open gifts, but I would finally get it together about noon. I also chose to go to morning Kindergarten just so I could sleep in. Most docs would only test TSH so of course I went un-rx'd forever! -- Re: levothyroxine I have recovered so much since getting treated for my hashi's and taking armour but sometimes I feel like a full recovery is just never going to happen. Sometimes I even feel totally back to normal but it deffinitely takes much less for it to slip away. Eating too much, going to bed too late, drinking more than like a little bit, working, going to school, and strenuous activities all really affect me. I went canoing with my boyfriends family once and then couldn't stay awake or even read for like 3 days lol. It's interesting being young and not quite being able to keep up with my friends in many situations. I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only hypo thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use to put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still haven t passed that stage yet. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Yuck, docs make me sick....no pun intended. -- Re: levothyroxine That is one heck of a story! I'm sure glad you fired them! I don't know why some people in the medical profession think it is okay to talk to people like that. I remember when I talked to my endo about not liking how low my T3 total was and she yelled at me about all the bad things that could happen by raising my dose. I was like shocked, what an insult, ya know? In a message dated 9/5/07 3:29:30 PM, sweetnwright@... writes: > > She was his nurse. I saw him for 10 years she was only his nurse for the > last two. From what the other nurses told me she got on their nerves too. > I needed a " real " apt. (usually just went in for labs). So, I told the > receptionist that I needed a well woman check because I was having pain in > my breast. SO I went in and the nurse asked me what I was there for > (policy) and I told her then she said, well I know he is gonna check this > (forgot what that is now), but you weren't scheduled for a well woman. So > you'll just have to ask him when he comes in. So I did. He gave me the > gown to get into and left the room so I changed into it. Next thing I know > here comes nurse (wifey) and began telling me how disappointed she was > in me knowing how many patients they have and how behind it puts them, blah > blah blah. So I said well I don't want to put anyone behind and then I lost > it and started bawling. I just got up and started getting dressed. In > comes the doc with his head down and his wife was telling him " she's not > staying for it. " Then got to saying its okay you can stay, blah blah blah. > I just left out and told them to bill me for my co-pay. They never did. > She then called me at home telling me how she has never had a patient leave > like that. I asked her who she thought she was etc etc. I basically went > off on her letting her know that there are other docs out there. I told her > everything I wish I would have at the office. It is probably a good thing > though. I was on synthroid and felt like he was helping me the best he > could. I probably would have never found this group or Armour if it weren t > for nurse Ratchet. He was the one who let my hypo go by for 5 years. He > told me my cholesterol was high when I was 19. Dumb docs! > Well now that that is out, whew. Guess you didn't was the whole story, but > you got it anyway! Sorry. > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Crystal wrote: > > No. I can never remember being sensitive to it, although, I've always had > cold extremities.... That's not it, just poor circulation. So, I suspect you were actually hyperT with something else going on to make the brain fog and sluggishness. My only other conditions besides hypoT are advanced age and astigmatic vision. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I think you are awesome b/c you understand so much about being hypo and helping yourself, more than most docs. I have one word for you, kinda like The Graduate (that one word was " plastics " ) Iodine. Gracia I have recovered so much since getting treated for my hashi's and taking armour but sometimes I feel like a full recovery is just never going to happen. Sometimes I even feel totally back to normal but it deffinitely takes much less for it to slip away. Eating too much, going to bed too late, drinking more than like a little bit, working, going to school, and strenuous activities all really affect me. I went canoing with my boyfriends family once and then couldn't stay awake or even read for like 3 days lol. It's interesting being young and not quite being able to keep up with my friends in many situations. I had hair loss and sluggishness, but at that time those were the only hypo thing that I can remember other than forgetfullness. At that time I worked for the state doing child welfare work. I would get an assignment and read over it then off I'd go....to the wrong place or on the wrong day. I use to put that off on stress, but now I know it was my foggy brain. I still haven t passed that stage yet. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Crystal wrote: > > > I thought that too, but I had the doc check that and he said my circulation > is fine. However, he's the one I fired.... Poor circulation is quite common in women, so it is considered the " norm. " The important point was that this is not cold sensitivity. That is a bone chilling sensation that makes you overdress, crank up the thermostat, sit on the stove, or jump in a hot shower in desperation. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I remember being that bone cold ....in the past! But since I began Armour, Iodine, and HC....I am fine. -- Re: levothyroxine Crystal wrote: > > > I thought that too, but I had the doc check that and he said my circulation > is fine. However, he's the one I fired.... Poor circulation is quite common in women, so it is considered the " norm. " The important point was that this is not cold sensitivity. That is a bone chilling sensation that makes you overdress, crank up the thermostat, sit on the stove, or jump in a hot shower in desperation. Chuck Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Not according to the STTM website. -- Re: levothyroxine Crystal wrote: > > > I thought that too, but I had the doc check that and he said my circulation > is fine. However, he's the one I fired.... Poor circulation is quite common in women, so it is considered the " norm. " The important point was that this is not cold sensitivity. That is a bone chilling sensation that makes you overdress, crank up the thermostat, sit on the stove, or jump in a hot shower in desperation. Chuck Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Crystal, You wrote: > > > Not according to the STTM website. > According to them, breathing is a symptom of hypoT. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Crystal, You wrote: > > Not according to the STTM website. > Let me try again with less sarcasm. This is what mathematicians would call a necessary but not sufficient condition. Lots of things cause reduced circulation, such as caffeine or hormonal issues. Post menopausal women drinking lots of coffee can grow frost. The can also get the bone deep chills without being hypoT. However, I will remain skeptical about someone's claiming to be hypoT, unless they experience the latter symptom in addition to the former. Or, you might live in the desert without air conditioning. Chill, Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I hope you are making a joke. -- Re: levothyroxine Crystal, You wrote: > > > Not according to the STTM website. > According to them, breathing is a symptom of hypoT. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Ah that's better. -- Re: levothyroxine Crystal, You wrote: > > Not according to the STTM website. > Let me try again with less sarcasm. This is what mathematicians would call a necessary but not sufficient condition. Lots of things cause reduced circulation, such as caffeine or hormonal issues. Post menopausal women drinking lots of coffee can grow frost. The can also get the bone deep chills without being hypoT. However, I will remain skeptical about someone's claiming to be hypoT, unless they experience the latter symptom in addition to the former. Or, you might live in the desert without air conditioning. Chill, Chuck Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 When I was first diagnosed I had two things that were so abnormal compared to everyone else - 1. Always ridiculously cold, and 2. Never hungry. Everyone else would be starving at some point and I could go all day and not feel a hunger pain. > > > > > > I thought that too, but I had the doc check that and he said my > circulation > > is fine. However, he's the one I fired.... > > Poor circulation is quite common in women, so it is considered the > " norm. " The important point was that this is not cold sensitivity. That > is a bone chilling sensation that makes you overdress, crank up the > thermostat, sit on the stove, or jump in a hot shower in desperation. > > Chuck > > > Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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