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Re: TSH test and iodine

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If regular doctors and typical endo's can's read the test results right, then

what type of doctor do you go to. I also wanted to know why it takes so long

for a post to show up? I sent a post saturday afternoon and it is still not

there. it is now sunday at 4:55, lets just see how long it takes for this one.

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do you remember when docs used to have clinical skills and could easily Dx

congenital hypothyroidism? It is easy for me to see it right now! The male

in question last had a TSH of 2 something. When my TSH was one and I was near

death, should I have simply followed the advice of the NP and taken BP meds?

At that point I think I would have been unable to work and had to go on

disability. Instead I got Armour thyroid.

all the studies do not correspond to reality, so something is very rotten in

Denmark. big pharma conspiracy.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> crazy crazy crazy

> so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> all??...

The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

symptoms besides hypoT.

And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

Too many are using sea salt!!

The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

lack of iodized salt.

http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

Chuck

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It seems that the places with the highest access to salt (iodine) are the

countries

with the most heart disease, or is that not true?

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> crazy crazy crazy

> so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> all??...

The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

symptoms besides hypoT.

And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

Too many are using sea salt!!

The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

lack of iodized salt.

http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

Chuck

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Roni Molin wrote:

>

>

> It seems that the places with the highest access to salt (iodine) are

> the countries

> with the most heart disease, or is that not true?

I doubt that there is a cause and effect relation, though. The more

developed countries can afford both iodized salt, plenty of food, and

sedentary life styles.

Chuck

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not to mention that he and his family could really benefit from it.

but i am confident he will be taking it when he buys me that dinner.

gracia

Really for truely, Chuck, the TSH test is still stupid, no matter what you

say...

And I really wish you'd get your head out from whatever oriface it is stuck in

and open your eyes about inorganic iodine and iodine deficiency. I say that

because

what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of you sound

like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

Sam :)

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I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

grand assumption that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all. Doctors have

become major dopes and ONLY use the TSH test, they proclaim you " fine " and

if you bitch you are not right they cram Prozac at you.

In this world of " managed " care and 5 minute office visits, doctors do NOT

NOT NOT perform the lengthy physical evaluations that show sub clinical

hypothyroidism (been there, done that). I'll bet anything they have no idea

how to do a proper physical workup, or would dismiss it in favor of the TSH

bloodwork. The doctors don't even look up from their lab work paperwork, the

patients for all that matters are invisible. After finding a FANTASTIC

doctor, I realize how moronic the other doctors actually were.

After going the " Chuck " route, and put through the ringer at the hands of

typical endos and internists...I cry major BS on Chucks comments.

And on Levoxyl I felt like crap...no matter the dosage. I ran my doseages up

and down for months, no comparison to Armour.

And the recommended levels of iodine by the 'WHO' are a joke, just like

their recommended levels of vitamin D, etc.

Neil

________________________________

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Sam

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:17 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: TSH test and iodine

Really for truely, Chuck, the TSH test is still stupid, no matter what you

say...

And I really wish you'd get your head out from whatever oriface it is stuck

in

and open your eyes about inorganic iodine and iodine deficiency. I say that

because

what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of you

sound

like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

Sam :)

> >

> > crazy crazy crazy

> > so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> > of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> > all??...

>

> The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

> A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

> most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

> guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

> when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

> symptoms besides hypoT.

>

> And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

> The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

> below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

> While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

> be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

> Too many are using sea salt!!

>

> The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

> population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

> countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

> is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

> lack of iodized salt.

>

> http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

<http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

>

> Chuck

>

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You do not lack drama - but you do lack proof of what you are saying. How

can you and those two docs ( and whoever that other doc is you are

always mentioning) be the only people who know how to assess and treat

thyroid conditions? It is a doubtful, indeed, that your perception of

reality is the only thing which is correct.

It is a blessing you found what works for you. However, Ghazillions of

medical specialists and tons of studies and lots of satisfied people who do

well on standard treatment - cannot be ignored.

Dusty

Re: TSH test and iodine

do you remember when docs used to have clinical skills and could easily Dx

congenital hypothyroidism? It is easy for me to see it right now! The male

in question last had a TSH of 2 something. When my TSH was one and I was

near death, should I have simply followed the advice of the NP and taken BP

meds? At that point I think I would have been unable to work and had to go

on disability. Instead I got Armour thyroid.

all the studies do not correspond to reality, so something is very rotten in

Denmark. big pharma conspiracy.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> crazy crazy crazy

> so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> all??...

The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

symptoms besides hypoT.

And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

Too many are using sea salt!!

The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

lack of iodized salt.

http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

Chuck

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Dusty,

The problem is ---->getting the proper treatment<-----.

Millions and millions of people are told they are " fine " , and if they bitch

they are put on Prozac. I know many people personally this has happened to,

including both my wife and I. I have also seen it in dozens of posters and

books I have read. I think MOST patients do not get your " standard

treatment " , indeed the standard treatment is to ignore obvious physical

symptoms in favor of TSH only and prescribe Prozac.

In the people that take Levoxyl, patients are typically under medicated

(again the all mighty TSH), overweight, and feel like crap. Obese patients

totter to the pharmacy for the monthly bottle of Levoxyl, the smallest dose

possible to bring their TSH JUST into the low normal range.

When I went to a proper doctor ($475 out of pocket and a lengthy visit of

two plus hours) he showed me my physical symptoms (many) and proved I had

been hypothyroid for many many years.

Your medical " specialists " blow.

The TSH test is the worst thing medicine ever invented. Doctors flushed

their brains down the toilet in favor of staring at a lab sheet. The patient

is invisible and does not matter...only the labs matter. How sad, but Prozac

sales are up!

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Dusty

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:56 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: RE: TSH test and iodine

You do not lack drama - but you do lack proof of what you are saying. How

can you and those two docs ( and whoever that other doc is you are

always mentioning) be the only people who know how to assess and treat

thyroid conditions? It is a doubtful, indeed, that your perception of

reality is the only thing which is correct.

It is a blessing you found what works for you. However, Ghazillions of

medical specialists and tons of studies and lots of satisfied people who do

well on standard treatment - cannot be ignored.

Dusty

Re: TSH test and iodine

do you remember when docs used to have clinical skills and could easily Dx

congenital hypothyroidism? It is easy for me to see it right now! The male

in question last had a TSH of 2 something. When my TSH was one and I was

near death, should I have simply followed the advice of the NP and taken BP

meds? At that point I think I would have been unable to work and had to go

on disability. Instead I got Armour thyroid.

all the studies do not correspond to reality, so something is very rotten in

Denmark. big pharma conspiracy.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> crazy crazy crazy

> so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> all??...

The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

symptoms besides hypoT.

And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

Too many are using sea salt!!

The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

lack of iodized salt.

http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

Chuck

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I am beginning to think that NOBODY is necessarily wrong here. We are

all individuals and what works for one may not work for the other. We

need to be grateful that we can all have our opinions and share them

which is what this group is all about.

I also went the synthroid, levoxyl road with 3 different doctors. One

claimed my problems were menopausal because my TSH test came back

normal. The doctor that helped me the most knew as soon as he saw me

that I had myxedema....why didn't the other doctors see this. I kept

telling them something was wrong. They couldn't see past their paperwork.

Thirty pounds in 4 months was not menopause. It was a hashimotos

flair-up that needed attention; attention I was not getting from my

so-called doctors. I also do not have much confidence in a lot of the

doctors. It is very difficult to find one that is up to date with

thyroid conditions.

I am now on Armour and feeling and looking 100 times better than when

on synthroid or levoxyl. I wouldn't take those doctors words and

found someone who would listen to me. We have to do what is right for

ourselves. This worked for me, it may not work for you. Do your

homework and be persistent.

My two cents. :)

Venizia

> >

> > crazy crazy crazy

> > so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all

symptoms

> > of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine

after

> > all??...

>

> The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

> A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

> most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

> guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results,

especially

> when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

> symptoms besides hypoT.

>

> And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

> The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

> below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

> While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

> be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

> Too many are using sea salt!!

>

> The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

> population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

> countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

> is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to

the

> lack of iodized salt.

>

> http://www.iccidd.

> <http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

> org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

>

> Chuck

>

>

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If you ever experience a competent holistic doc, even if it is yourself! then

the usual allopathic stuff is intolerable. then you realize how different life

would be for so many ppl. i really don't believe that we all are so unique and

different. a lot of the same things work for everybody with a doc who knows

how to use them properly.

Gracia

I am beginning to think that NOBODY is necessarily wrong here. We are

all individuals and what works for one may not work for the other. We

need to be grateful that we can all have our opinions and share them

which is what this group is all about.

I also went the synthroid, levoxyl road with 3 different doctors. One

claimed my problems were menopausal because my TSH test came back

normal. The doctor that helped me the most knew as soon as he saw me

that I had myxedema....why didn't the other doctors see this. I kept

telling them something was wrong. They couldn't see past their paperwork.

Thirty pounds in 4 months was not menopause. It was a hashimotos

flair-up that needed attention; attention I was not getting from my

so-called doctors. I also do not have much confidence in a lot of the

doctors. It is very difficult to find one that is up to date with

thyroid conditions.

I am now on Armour and feeling and looking 100 times better than when

on synthroid or levoxyl. I wouldn't take those doctors words and

found someone who would listen to me. We have to do what is right for

ourselves. This worked for me, it may not work for you. Do your

homework and be persistent.

My two cents. :)

Venizia

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I'd hardly call my lifestyle sedentary, too bad you can't see my fingers flying

over this

keyboard. LOL

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Roni Molin wrote:

>

>

> It seems that the places with the highest access to salt (iodine) are

> the countries

> with the most heart disease, or is that not true?

I doubt that there is a cause and effect relation, though. The more

developed countries can afford both iodized salt, plenty of food, and

sedentary life styles.

Chuck

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I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the HPA connection and

TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are faulty or the thyroid is faulty

then the TSH levels are suspected. in that either the adrenals are pumping out

too much TSH or too little; or the thyroid is not reading it correctly either

way you get a thyroid condition either hypo T or hyper T.

My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on Armour! in fact

she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour friendly provider- yeah!!!

she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who knows and

therefore would know BS if I heard it.

She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your thyroid levels via a

computer. it involved strapping this computerized sensor on your palm and

tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and measuring the percentage of how

responsive your reflex is. it is based on truth. when you are hypo T all of your

reflexes are decreased. when I test my patient's reflexes I find that they are

depressed in contrast to patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased

or heightened.

the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be screwed. lupus

affects my connective tissue which tendons and ligaments are made up of. so my

reflexes may be altered because of it and affect my test result. so, I am going

to have blood tests to correlate the results.

But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her center " the hall

center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen. It is filled with

Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable couches; art and sculpture

everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music; an natural medicine store;

natural cosmetics; books.

they offer a full list of natural medicine services including acupuncture;

nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage; Chinese herbs; sauna; facials;

lab testing; other sevices.

nancie

RE: Re: TSH test and iodine

I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

grand assumption that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all. Doctors have

become major dopes and ONLY use the TSH test, they proclaim you " fine "

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I believe there is a place similar to that in Texas or Arizona, I can't recall

which.

Roni

Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...> wrote:

I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the HPA

connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are faulty or the

thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that either the adrenals

are pumping out too much TSH or too little; or the thyroid is not reading it

correctly either way you get a thyroid condition either hypo T or hyper T.

My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on Armour! in fact

she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour friendly provider- yeah!!!

she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who knows and

therefore would know BS if I heard it.

She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your thyroid levels via a

computer. it involved strapping this computerized sensor on your palm and

tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and measuring the percentage of how

responsive your reflex is. it is based on truth. when you are hypo T all of your

reflexes are decreased. when I test my patient's reflexes I find that they are

depressed in contrast to patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased

or heightened.

the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be screwed. lupus

affects my connective tissue which tendons and ligaments are made up of. so my

reflexes may be altered because of it and affect my test result. so, I am going

to have blood tests to correlate the results.

But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her center " the hall

center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen. It is filled with

Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable couches; art and sculpture

everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music; an natural medicine store;

natural cosmetics; books.

they offer a full list of natural medicine services including acupuncture;

nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage; Chinese herbs; sauna; facials;

lab testing; other sevices.

nancie

RE: Re: TSH test and iodine

I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

grand assumption that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all. Doctors have

become major dopes and ONLY use the TSH test, they proclaim you " fine "

Recent Activity

a.. 15New

Members<hypothyroidism/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOHJmNT\

VvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm\

1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTY1NjIyMQ-->

Visit Your Group

<hypothyroidism;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYWRuNjR1BF9TAzk3MzU5N\

zE0BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxM\

Tk5NjU2MjIx>

Having cancer is

hard<http://us.ard./SIG=12nst2v22/M=493064.12016247.1244565610478265/D=\

grphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199663422/A=4763763/R=0/SIG=11uofhk5p/*ht\

tp://advision.webevents./cancersupport/index.html>

Finding help

shouldn´t be.

Health

Live Better

Longer<http://us.ard./SIG=12mk5n22s/M=493064.12016303.12445695.9706571/\

D=grphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199663422/A=5008807/R=0/SIG=10q26t77l/*\

http://health./>

Find new ways

to stay healthy.

Healthy Eating

Find

Groups<http://us.ard./SIG=12mf0c633/M=493064.12016231.12445647.9706571/\

D=grphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199663422/A=4718983/R=0/SIG=11kunoe70/*\

http://advision.webevents./healthyeating/>

that are focused

on healthy eating.

..

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Ask her if she would like to open an office in Wisconsin! :) she'd

get used to the brutal winters. You are VERY lucky. Keep us posted

on her comments. She sounds very interesting.

Venizia

>

> I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the HPA

connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are faulty or

the thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that

either the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little; or the

thyroid is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid

condition either hypo T or hyper T.

> My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on

Armour! in fact she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour friendly

provider- yeah!!!

> she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who knows

and therefore would know BS if I heard it.

> She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your thyroid

levels via a computer. it involved strapping this computerized sensor

on your palm and tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and measuring

the percentage of how responsive your reflex is. it is based on truth.

when you are hypo T all of your reflexes are decreased. when I test my

patient's reflexes I find that they are depressed in contrast to

patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased or heightened.

> the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be

screwed. lupus affects my connective tissue which tendons and

ligaments are made up of. so my reflexes may be altered because of it

and affect my test result. so, I am going to have blood tests to

correlate the results.

> But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her center " the

hall center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen. It is

filled with Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable couches;

art and sculpture everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music; an

natural medicine store; natural cosmetics; books.

> they offer a full list of natural medicine services including

acupuncture; nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage; Chinese

herbs; sauna; facials; lab testing; other sevices.

> nancie

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

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Conversely, Neil, I know lots and lots of people who are treated correctly.

My point is that despite all the drama we express here on this list, i.e.

'all the people in the nursing home are hypo' and similar statements aren't

proven statements and are mostly conjecture based on a person's belief

system of how much more they know about this subject then the doc's do. The

truth is they only REALLY know about their own experience, symptoms and what

has healed them , but they are including us in that experience. Doesn't

work that way!

Don't get me wrong, I've had my share of bad docs - and I've had just as

many good docs. No different than a car mechanic or a customer service rep.

Some folks are good at what they do and some aren't.....

Docs don't have an easy job of it - they are often trying to hit a moving

target with a diagnosis. A gal like me comes in, 59 yrs old and complains

of hot flashes, dry skin, lack of libido and fatigue. Pretty hard for a

doc to hit that right straight on the nose the first time out of the gate.

Even if I was 35 and came in with those complaints, it would be pretty hard.

There are lots and lots of things which can cause any one of those symptoms.

Some people go to the doc's and say only

'I'm always tired'. You know how many disorders, diseases that could cover?

I've worked in a doc's office, I've seen a lot of pretty comical,

unbelievable stuff (actions and comments). You'd probably be amazed at the

number of people who show up on a doc's doorstep, after having convinced

themselves of having one thing or another and demanded that a doc treat them

for such and such disease. We had one lady try to cut off her tongue -

convinced it was cancerous - to give you an idea.

Dusty

Re: TSH test and iodine

do you remember when docs used to have clinical skills and could easily Dx

congenital hypothyroidism? It is easy for me to see it right now! The male

in question last had a TSH of 2 something. When my TSH was one and I was

near death, should I have simply followed the advice of the NP and taken BP

meds? At that point I think I would have been unable to work and had to go

on disability. Instead I got Armour thyroid.

all the studies do not correspond to reality, so something is very rotten in

Denmark. big pharma conspiracy.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> crazy crazy crazy

> so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> all??...

The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

symptoms besides hypoT.

And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

Too many are using sea salt!!

The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

lack of iodized salt.

http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

Chuck

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We may not be all that different but we all may respond different to

meds etc. whether because of allergies, genetics etc. one thing may

work for a person and not for another.

Gracia, I do appreciate your comments. I know you care. Hearing all

sides is important.

Venizia

>

>

> If you ever experience a competent holistic doc, even if it is

yourself! then the usual allopathic stuff is intolerable. then you

realize how different life would be for so many ppl. i really don't

believe that we all are so unique and different. a lot of the same

things work for everybody with a doc who knows how to use them

properly.

> Gracia

>

> I am beginning to think that NOBODY is necessarily wrong here. We are

> all individuals and what works for one may not work for the other. We

> need to be grateful that we can all have our opinions and share them

> which is what this group is all about.

>

> I also went the synthroid, levoxyl road with 3 different doctors. One

> claimed my problems were menopausal because my TSH test came back

> normal. The doctor that helped me the most knew as soon as he saw me

> that I had myxedema....why didn't the other doctors see this. I kept

> telling them something was wrong. They couldn't see past their

paperwork.

>

> Thirty pounds in 4 months was not menopause. It was a hashimotos

> flair-up that needed attention; attention I was not getting from my

> so-called doctors. I also do not have much confidence in a lot of the

> doctors. It is very difficult to find one that is up to date with

> thyroid conditions.

>

> I am now on Armour and feeling and looking 100 times better than when

> on synthroid or levoxyl. I wouldn't take those doctors words and

> found someone who would listen to me. We have to do what is right for

> ourselves. This worked for me, it may not work for you. Do your

> homework and be persistent.

>

> My two cents. :)

> Venizia

>

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I will. also, she does not test the adrenals via the salvia method. she stated

that she has found that the proteins in the salvia will alter the test results.

she uses the 24 hour urine collection test. so , that is what I am going to do

once I kick this cold. you sent it to this lab in washington state, I believe

and the results take 3 weeks to come back. the box includes the shipping

container and everything.

Re: TSH test and iodine

Ask her if she would like to open an office in Wisconsin! :) she'd

get used to the brutal winters. You are VERY lucky. Keep us posted

on her comments. She sounds very interesting.

Venizia

>

> I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the HPA

connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are faulty or

the thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that

either the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little; or the

thyroid is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid

condition either hypo T or hyper T.

> My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on

Armour! in fact she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour friendly

provider- yeah!!!

> she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who knows

and therefore would know BS if I heard it.

> She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your thyroid

levels via a computer. it involved strapping this computerized sensor

on your palm and tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and measuring

the percentage of how responsive your reflex is. it is based on truth.

when you are hypo T all of your reflexes are decreased. when I test my

patient's reflexes I find that they are depressed in contrast to

patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased or heightened.

> the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be

screwed. lupus affects my connective tissue which tendons and

ligaments are made up of. so my reflexes may be altered because of it

and affect my test result. so, I am going to have blood tests to

correlate the results.

> But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her center " the

hall center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen. It is

filled with Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable couches;

art and sculpture everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music; an

natural medicine store; natural cosmetics; books.

> they offer a full list of natural medicine services including

acupuncture; nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage; Chinese

herbs; sauna; facials; lab testing; other sevices.

> nancie

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

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dusty-

I bet you and I could share lots of funny and scary stories. I have had the

craziest experiences with some of my patients and my partner's patients....

nancie

RE: TSH test and iodine

Conversely, Neil, I know lots and lots of people who are treated correctly.

My point is that despite all the drama we express here on this list, i.e.

'all the people in the nursing home are hypo' and similar statements aren't

proven statements and are mostly conjecture based on a person's belief

system of how much more they know about this subject then the doc's do. The

truth is they only REALLY know about their own experience, symptoms and what

has healed them , but they are including us in that experience. Doesn't

work that way!

Don't get me wrong, I've had my share of bad docs - and I've had just as

many good docs. No different than a car mechanic or a customer service rep.

Some folks are good at what they do and some aren't.....

Docs don't have an easy job of it - they are often trying to hit a moving

target with a diagnosis. A gal like me comes in, 59 yrs old and complains

of hot flashes, dry skin, lack of libido and fatigue. Pretty hard for a

doc to hit that right straight on the nose the first time out of the gate.

Even if I was 35 and came in with those complaints, it would be pretty hard.

There are lots and lots of things which can cause any one of those symptoms.

Some people go to the doc's and say only

'I'm always tired'. You know how many disorders, diseases that could cover?

I've worked in a doc's office, I've seen a lot of pretty comical,

unbelievable stuff (actions and comments). You'd probably be amazed at the

number of people who show up on a doc's doorstep, after having convinced

themselves of having one thing or another and demanded that a doc treat them

for such and such disease. We had one lady try to cut off her tongue -

convinced it was cancerous - to give you an idea.

Dusty

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Sam,

You wrote:

> ... I say that because

> what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of you

> sound like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

And I am still waiting for an example of an " informed " person that

agrees with any of your claims that isn't directly attached to Optimox.

I am also still waiting for any type of peer reviewed literature that

agrees.

Chuck

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neil wrote:

>

>

> I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

> grand assumption that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

> working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all.

Not true. This happens about 5% of the time.

Chuck

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Nancie,

You wrote:

> ... in that either

> the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little; or the thyroid

> is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid condition

> either hypo T or hyper T....

I'm trying to figure out what you mean here. TSH comes from the

pituitary, not the adrenals.

Chuck

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chuck-

opps! I was thinking about an adrenal post while I was writing it- I MEANT the

Pituitary gland. thius what happens when you are thinking about 2 topics at once

and you have brain fog from a cold! LOL

thanks for catching that!

Re: Re: TSH test and iodine

Nancie,

You wrote:

> ... in that either

> the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little; or the thyroid

> is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid condition

> either hypo T or hyper T....

I'm trying to figure out what you mean here. TSH comes from the

pituitary, not the adrenals.

Chuck

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Nancie,

You wrote:

>

> opps! I was thinking about an adrenal post while I was writing it- I

> MEANT the Pituitary gland. thius what happens when you are thinking

> about 2 topics at once and you have brain fog from a cold!

That makes sense, and it is probably right.

Hope you feel better soon.

Chuck

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Chuck,

When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

What do people take?

Thanks,

--- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> neil wrote:

> >

> >

> > I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test,

> you are making a rather

> > grand assumption that the

> hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

> > working properly. Very very often this is not the

> case at all.

>

> Not true. This happens about 5% of the time.

>

> Chuck

>

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,

You wrote:

>

> When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> What do people take?

There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach, often

recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should rule out

possible neoplasms.

Chuck

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