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Re: TSH test and iodine

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hi Nancie

I don't have a disease. I was iodine deficient as a child and that caused

thyroid/adrenal/hormone probs. A doc hacked away at my thyroid gland at age 22

and then no treatment until I treated myself with the help of the internet 30

years later. I am a victim of poor medical care :(

p.s. my sister and brother are doctors, my uncle was an MD from Harvard,

considered quite brilliant. my father graduated from MIT with two degrees at

the age of 20. English is his second language.

Gracia

I am not saying we treat people like diseases - you seem to discount

everything form the allopathic world just because it includes diseases, which

INCLUDE THYROID DISEASES, just because you had bad experiences with several

physicians.

all I am saying is there are diseases [including thyroid] that are treated in

all areas of medicine whether it is allopathic or natural.

a patient comes into the office and we listen to their complaints; we exam

them; order tests and see what results we get; come up with a diagnosis and then

DISCUSS with the patient what the treatment options are; give them info on

everything and let them decide.

BTW diseases are made up FROM VARIOUS SYMPTOMS. so, yes you can treat by

symptoms and that DOES NOT mean you are not treating the disease. what do you

think you are doing when you take your armour and iodine and bio-identical

cortisol?? you ARE TREATING A DISEASED thyroid or adrenal gland. or if you don't

have a thyroid you are replacing the hormones for that missing organ.

Re: Re: TSH test and iodine

the best docs I have been to have not been that way. they didn't treat me as a

bunch of parts and diseases. In fact I never heard the " disease " word from them.

compare that to the printouts from my mother's doc--yikes.

Gracia

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The thing I would like to know is what does the medical profession say or do

about the

5% false negative results? This is not a random number, assuming it is

correct. It means

that out of 100,000 patients, 5,000 of them are incorrectly diagnosed, and get

wrong or

no treatment.

Oh well, the test was wrong and I'm sorry your mother or father or sister or

brother died,

is not good enough. The insurance companies and doctors are always screaming

about

" frivolous " law suits. If something like this happens in a family, I don't

think a suit would

be frivolous. Just my opinion.

Roni

Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

allopathic vs holistic medicine.

Gracia

Gracia wrote:

>

> not true at all.

> I think you mean that 5% are treated, the rest suffer from bad genes.

No, I meant what I said. I have read about a dozen studies of the test

and the false negative rate ran from 3% to 9% but was most often around 5%.

Chuck

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Roni,

You wrote:

>

> The thing I would like to know is what does the medical profession say

> or do about the 5% false negative results?...

A good doctor should recognize that there is conflicting information,

symptoms versus a single null test, and will investigate further.

However, the point was that as tests go, this one is particularly

effective for initial screenings. No one should be so sanguine about the

same test once medication is prescribed.

Chuck

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So, in view of the fact that my last results showed my free T3 and T4 to be in

the normal

range, and the TSH low, what would you do with this? I am on Thyrolar, 2

grains, which

I am now splitting because of the Afib attacks. The split dose seems to be

doing the

job as far as that goes.

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Roni,

You wrote:

>

> The thing I would like to know is what does the medical profession say

> or do about the 5% false negative results?...

A good doctor should recognize that there is conflicting information,

symptoms versus a single null test, and will investigate further.

However, the point was that as tests go, this one is particularly

effective for initial screenings. No one should be so sanguine about the

same test once medication is prescribed.

Chuck

---------------------------------

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Roni,

You wrote:

>

>

> So, in view of the fact that my last results showed my free T3 and T4 to

> be in the normal

> range, and the TSH low, what would you do with this? I am on Thyrolar, 2

> grains, which

> I am now splitting because of the Afib attacks. The split dose seems to

> be doing the

> job as far as that goes.

>

Aren't you saying that you have these " normal " test results BECAUSE of

the 2 grains you are taking? You seem to be doing the best you can, but

I would still be looking for other causes of your symptoms or

complications.

Chuck

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Actually, the better one is educated the more one realizes one's

ignorance in so many fields. A very highly educated and intelligent

person will recognize his ignorance in fields the average person does

not even know exist. That person would in fact be the last one to think

that she/he knows everything.

It's more than likely that the person who frequently refers to those of

advanced accomplishment in intellectual fields as " stupid " and

" ignorant " are themselves in possession of less than stellar IQ's and

educational accomplishments.

Ignorance should not be pejorative; as we are all ignorant in many

things. Stupidity is a completely different matter.

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34524;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNHFyZzh\

wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ1MjQEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTczODc3NA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " bear339@... " bear339@...

>

<mailto:bear339@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> ebradi3951 <ebradi3951>

>

>

> Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:55 am (PST)

>

>

> Ouch, Sam. Was that really necessary?

>

> Eh, scratch the question mark, I don't wanna hear it.

>

> Peace,

>

>

> Really for truely, Chuck, the TSH test is still stupid, no matter what

> you

> say...

>

> And I really wish you'd get your head out from whatever oriface it is

> stuck

> in

> and open your eyes about inorganic iodine and iodine deficiency. I say

> that

> because

> what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of

> you sound

> like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

>

> Sam :)

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Guest guest

I'm not Chuck [nor a scientist], but I can tell you that it is because

in controlled studies such " evidence " almost always falls flat on its face.

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34556;_ylc=X3oDMTJxazRsbzZ\

lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ1NTYEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTc3MjI3Mw-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

> <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:41 pm (PST)

>

>

> happy birthday sweetie pie honey bunch---that'

> s from an old rock and roll song

> XXOO

> Gracia

> p.s. Chuck--why don't you believe the ppl who are telling you that

> Iodoral works? what about evidence based medicine??

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I have been on thyroid medication for many years, and I don't know what else

to which it would be attributable. I have definitely seen an almost immediate

response of Afib with caffeine, which I have pretty much cut out, but to test

it

I ate a Hershey bar, and there IT was again. So, other than these two things,

I don't know what else I could do. I'm also taking the recommended supplements

by the Cardio, and they seem to be helping the pressure.

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Roni,

You wrote:

>

>

> So, in view of the fact that my last results showed my free T3 and T4 to

> be in the normal

> range, and the TSH low, what would you do with this? I am on Thyrolar, 2

> grains, which

> I am now splitting because of the Afib attacks. The split dose seems to

> be doing the

> job as far as that goes.

>

Aren't you saying that you have these " normal " test results BECAUSE of

the 2 grains you are taking? You seem to be doing the best you can, but

I would still be looking for other causes of your symptoms or

complications.

Chuck

---------------------------------

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Oh , I can't begin to tell you the amount of times I have tried to get

people to

understand that difference. " SWAK' from the great northwest.

Roni

<res075oh@...> wrote:

Actually, the better one is educated the more one realizes one's

ignorance in so many fields. A very highly educated and intelligent

person will recognize his ignorance in fields the average person does

not even know exist. That person would in fact be the last one to think

that she/he knows everything.

It's more than likely that the person who frequently refers to those of

advanced accomplishment in intellectual fields as " stupid " and

" ignorant " are themselves in possession of less than stellar IQ's and

educational accomplishments.

Ignorance should not be pejorative; as we are all ignorant in many

things. Stupidity is a completely different matter.

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34524;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNHFyZzh\

wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ1MjQEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTczODc3NA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " bear339@... " bear339@...

> <mailto:bear339@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> ebradi3951 <ebradi3951>

>

>

> Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:55 am (PST)

>

>

> Ouch, Sam. Was that really necessary?

>

> Eh, scratch the question mark, I don't wanna hear it.

>

> Peace,

>

>

> Really for truely, Chuck, the TSH test is still stupid, no matter what

> you

> say...

>

> And I really wish you'd get your head out from whatever oriface it is

> stuck

> in

> and open your eyes about inorganic iodine and iodine deficiency. I say

> that

> because

> what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of

> you sound

> like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

>

> Sam :)

---------------------------------

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Guest guest

oh! well there! I watched Frontline on PBS tonight and found it interesting

that the drug companies sponsor their drug trials and pay huge sums of $$ to

certain docs to push the latest drugs. so shocking to see the parents looking

so hypothyroid and the poor children who are on psych drugs with huge goiters.

the law suits are coming very soon.

gracia

I'm not Chuck [nor a scientist], but I can tell you that it is because

in controlled studies such " evidence " almost always falls flat on its face.

>

>

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BTW, happy birthday! I turn 67 Sunday [13th]; my wife turns mumble

mumble Saturday [12th].

PS: In lieu of flowers please send cash! [ggg]

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34561;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMThqZ2s\

zBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ1NjEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTc4ODM1Ng-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

>

<mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:08 pm (PST)

>

> And thank YOU, Gracia for helping me get to where I am now.

> I wouldn't be above ground if it weren't for you and ...

>

> Sam :-D

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Roni,

My hubby had his first episode of AFib last summer. He is also on HC & Armour

but still very hypo. We are verrry slowly increasing the Armour. What

supplements did your Dr recommend?

Gale

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Happy Birthday to you and your wife. In lieu of cash which I don't

have, I'll just send my wishes for all good things.

Roni

<res075oh@...> wrote:

BTW, happy birthday! I turn 67 Sunday [13th]; my wife turns mumble

mumble Saturday [12th].

PS: In lieu of flowers please send cash! [ggg]

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34561;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMThqZ2s\

zBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ1NjEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTc4ODM1Ng-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

> <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:08 pm (PST)

>

> And thank YOU, Gracia for helping me get to where I am now.

> I wouldn't be above ground if it weren't for you and ...

>

> Sam :-D

---------------------------------

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gracia-

why do you think you were iodine deficient?? did you not get it in your diet??

Re: Re: TSH test and iodine

hi Nancie

I don't have a disease. I was iodine deficient as a child and that caused

thyroid/adrenal/hormone probs. A doc hacked away at my thyroid gland at age 22

and then no treatment until I treated myself with the help of the internet 30

years later. I am a victim of poor medical care :(

p.s. my sister and brother are doctors, my uncle was an MD from Harvard,

considered quite brilliant. my father graduated from MIT with two degrees at the

age of 20. English is his second language.

Gracia

I am not saying we treat people like diseases - you seem to discount

everything form the allopathic world just because it includes diseases, which

INCLUDE THYROID DISEASES, just because you had bad experiences with several

physicians.

all I am saying is there are diseases [including thyroid] that are treated in

all areas of medicine whether it is allopathic or natural.

a patient comes into the office and we listen to their complaints; we exam

them; order tests and see what results we get; come up with a diagnosis and then

DISCUSS with the patient what the treatment options are; give them info on

everything and let them decide.

BTW diseases are made up FROM VARIOUS SYMPTOMS. so, yes you can treat by

symptoms and that DOES NOT mean you are not treating the disease. what do you

think you are doing when you take your armour and iodine and bio-identical

cortisol?? you ARE TREATING A DISEASED thyroid or adrenal gland. or if you don't

have a thyroid you are replacing the hormones for that missing organ.

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<Grin...> Thanks, Roni.

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34643;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdmlrZmh\

xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ2NDMEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTkzOTcxMA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Wed Jan 9, 2008 3:16 pm (PST)

>

> Happy Birthday to you and your wife. In lieu of cash which I don't

>

> have, I'll just send my wishes for all good things.

>

> Roni

>

> <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

> BTW, happy birthday! I turn 67 Sunday [13th]; my wife turns mumble

> mumble Saturday [12th].

>

>

>

> PS: In lieu of flowers please send cash! [ggg]

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Thank you, dear. Wow, 67? Still just a kid. ;)

When I was in my early to late 30's, boys in your generation used to

chase me around like bad puppies, then I dropped from the picture

when I became hypO ill. Now that I'm back on the scene, they they are

again, chasing me around with their tongues wagging (even tho I am

totally taken and unavailable)... So I arrived at my fiance's place

the morning of my birthday and he took my head in his hands and

said " My GOD, you look younger! " I totally love that man. :)

Sam :-D

(older and hairier)

>

> BTW, happy birthday! I turn 67 Sunday [13th]; my wife turns mumble

> mumble Saturday [12th].

>

>

>

> PS: In lieu of flowers please send cash! [ggg]

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Mmmm, there is a controlled study going on...it's

not falling flat on it's face. It's not a pharmaceutical

company based study, tho.

Sam ;)

>

> I'm not Chuck [nor a scientist], but I can tell you that it is

because

> in controlled studies such " evidence " almost always falls flat on its

face.

>

>

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If you pay attention to puppies [and I know you do] then you know it's

the tail wagging that gets the tongue wagging! [ggg]

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34684;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNjE1Z2F\

yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ2ODQEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTk5MzA5NA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

>

<mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:44 am (PST)

>

> Thank you, dear. Wow, 67? Still just a kid. ;)

> When I was in my early to late 30's, boys in your generation used to

> chase me around like bad puppies, then I dropped from the picture

> when I became hypO ill. Now that I'm back on the scene, they they are

> again, chasing me around with their tongues wagging (even tho I am

> totally taken and unavailable)

> ... So I arrived at my fiance's place

> the morning of my birthday and he took my head in his hands and

> said " My GOD, you look younger! " I totally love that man. :)

>

> Sam :-D

> (older and hairier)

>

>

> >

> > BTW, happy birthday! I turn 67 Sunday [13th]; my wife turns mumble

> > mumble Saturday [12th].

> >

> >

> >

> > PS: In lieu of flowers please send cash! [ggg]

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That should be interesting; but really only if it's peer reviewed. If

it's the iodine docs " researching " the product they shill for it's of no

real interest to a scientist. Keep us informed...

BTW, I rather suspect that you may have reference to personal

experience, which is not a controlled study. If that's the case it may

have monumental personal value; but zilch in professional circles. I

know you don't understand or accept that; but it's the simple truth.

>

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/34687;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdXNlbW5\

hBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzQ2ODcEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTk5MzA5NA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

>

<mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%20iodine>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:08 am (PST)

>

> Mmmm, there is a controlled study going on...it's

> not falling flat on it's face. It's not a pharmaceutical

> company based study, tho.

>

> Sam ;)

>

>

> >

> > I'm not Chuck [nor a scientist], but I can tell you that it is

> because

> > in controlled studies such " evidence " almost always falls flat on its

> face.

> >

> >

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Magnesium 500mgs 3xday, potassium99mgs.1xd,hawthorn 500mgs.3xd.

I also take nattokinase to dissolve any clots and move the blood through.

I take 1 baby asperin evry couple of days, and keep them on hand in case of

a heart attack (the EMTs told me to do that-to chew 4 baby aspirin if the Afib

really gets going).

I think the afib is very sensitive to caffeine, and I only drink one cup of

decaf

in the morning, and have SEVERELY cut down on chocolate, only have 1 or2

squares now instead of a half bar.

Roni

Gale <nsndallas@...> wrote:

Roni,

My hubby had his first episode of AFib last summer. He is also on HC & Armour

but still very hypo. We are verrry slowly increasing the Armour. What

supplements did your Dr recommend?

Gale

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That's exactly right, . <evil BadGirl grin>

Sam :-}

>

> If you pay attention to puppies [and I know you do] then you know

it's

> the tail wagging that gets the tongue wagging! [ggg]

>

>

>

> > Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

> > <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%

20iodine>

> > stealthwind <stealthwind>

> >

> >

> > Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:44 am (PST)

> >

> > Thank you, dear. Wow, 67? Still just a kid. ;)

> > When I was in my early to late 30's, boys in your generation used

to

> > chase me around like bad puppies, then I dropped from the picture

> > when I became hypO ill. Now that I'm back on the scene, they they

are

> > again, chasing me around with their tongues wagging

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More than personal experience, .

It makes me very uncomfortable when you, and like, call the

researchers shills. Would you please not do that?

Sam

>

> That should be interesting; but really only if it's peer reviewed.

If

> it's the iodine docs " researching " the product they shill for it's

of no

> real interest to a scientist. Keep us informed...

>

> BTW, I rather suspect that you may have reference to personal

> experience, which is not a controlled study. If that's the case it

may

> have monumental personal value; but zilch in professional circles.

I

> know you don't understand or accept that; but it's the simple truth.

>

>

>

> >

> > Re: TSH test and iodine

> >

> > Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

> > <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20TSH%20test%20and%

20iodine>

> > stealthwind <stealthwind>

> >

> >

> > Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:08 am (PST)

> >

> > Mmmm, there is a controlled study going on...it's

> > not falling flat on it's face.

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Guest guest

Thanks Roni,

That is close to what my DH takes. On new years day he woke up with

his heart racing again. His Dr advised that he may be able to stop an

episode by coughing hard or bearing down. She said that sometimes

that will reset the heart rhytmn.

Gale

> Roni,

>

> My hubby had his first episode of AFib last summer. He is also on HC

& Armour but still very hypo. We are verrry slowly increasing the

Armour. What supplements did your Dr recommend?

>

> Gale

>

>

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