Re: Welcome to bowel cleanse@onelist.com

September 5, 1999

> From: " Annette " <asmith1@...>

>

> HI

> My name is Annette

> I have been suffering with bowel problems for at least 20

> yr.. now. My doctor has categorized me with lazy bowel, and

> suggests more fiber and water. Nothing I have done to date

> has seemed to help. I learned about bowel cleansing from

> reading info on the net. It seems very interesting and makes

> a lot of sense, but there seems to be so may products on the

> market to do this, how do you choose what is right for you. I

> am so tired of feeling sick and tired. A year or so ago a

> friend suggested Herbal fiber blend and Barley green, which I

> took faithfully for about two months, but I ended up in worse

> shape. I don't know if it just wasn't long enough or what.

> Does anyone have any suggestions on products or methods, or

> readings. I'm more confused on what direction to take than

> ever! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Annette,

The best colon cleansing programs, imho, are Dr

Schulze'z (www.healthfree.com/schulze) and the one from

the good people at Arise and Shine. Personally, I use a

combination (basically, I use Arise and Shines,

substituting Dr Schulzes #2 formula for their 'Psyllium

Shake'.

Many times you will feel worse before you start to feel

better, but that is not always the case, though it

usually is where colon cleansing is concerned.

Most herbal fiber blends are too weak, which is why I

strongly adevocate the use of Dr Schulzes or Arise and

Shines herbs.

You would probably benefit greatly from a series of

colonics (contrary to popular opinion - even among

Doctors - colonics can help most bowel problems, even

chronic diarrhea and 'lazy bowel syndrome'). The herbs

are necessary though to get the bowel actually 'moving'

again.

My best advice is to study the info at Dr Schulzes

website (www.healthfree.com/schulze). The answers you

seek are there.

Good decisions!

--

Marcus

September 5, 1999

Hello Annette,

" How do you choose what is right for you? " That is a good question. For

myself I try and use my inner awareness when making choices. I set aside

the outer world and it's distractions and pass the question, choice or

possibility to my inner self. The questions that arise could be ... How do

I feel about this? How does it make me feel? Does it feel right? Is it

truth for me? In the end, I aspire to live my own truth whatever it may be.

I am using herbal cleansing products from Awareness Corp. I had been

constipated for many years and have malabsorption. I am making good

progress with these problems using the bowel and digestive system cleansing

product EXPERIENCE. I am also using the parasite cleansing product CLEAR. I

am taking liquid vitamin and mineral supplements. I have been on the

cleanses for about 9 months. My constipation is being addressed, I am

having 2 good bowel movements per day, my energy level and alertness is

much better, my mental and emotional balance has improved considerably and

I feel very much better. Really no comparison to when I started. I feel

like I was living inside a plastic bag before starting the cleanses, now

the bag is gone and everything is clear and focused.

I am dealing with problems related to drug use in my teens and I was on

prescribed medication for " nerves " for about 9 years in the 70's and 80's.

These cleanses have helped me more than the medications ever did. As well I

feel I am cleaning out the residue from the drugs and medications that is

in my body.

Others on the list will have different methods. I have not tried any of the

other cleanses so I can not compare. I was considering the Master Cleanse

at one time but didn't go ahead with it.

Bob Stirling

------------------------------------

Information on Awareness Products

http://www.awareonline.com/discovery

At 09:30 PM 9/4/99 -0300, you wrote:

>From: " Annette " <asmith1@...>

>

>HI

>My name is Annette

>I have been suffering with bowel problems for at least 20 yr.. now. My

>doctor has categorized me with lazy bowel, and suggests more fiber and

>water. Nothing I have done to date has seemed to help. I learned about

>bowel cleansing from reading info on the net. It seems very interesting and

>makes a lot of sense, but there seems to be so may products on the market to

>do this, how do you choose what is right for you. I am so tired of feeling

>sick and tired. A year or so ago a friend suggested Herbal fiber blend and

>Barley green, which I took faithfully for about two months, but I ended up

>in worse shape. I don't know if it just wasn't long enough or what. Does

>anyone have any suggestions on products or methods, or readings. I'm more

>confused on what direction to take than ever! Any suggestions would be

>greatly appreciated.

September 5, 1999

Dear Bob, Annette and others,

It's true you do have to listen to your own heart, regardless of what claims

the product manufacturers and health practitioners make. Every body is

individual. And Awareness also does make excellent products. They are

recommended by the top bowel health practitioners in New York City and I am

using them myself. Awareness is very expensive but well worth it.

But I think the most important thing to remember is to rotate your products.

Through overexposure to anything we ingest, food, supplement, anything, we

can eventually become allergic or immune to its effects. That's why we have

to stay on one product for a certain amount of time, then change it. You

rotate supplements similar to the way you rotate foods on a food rotation

diet. You don't even have to change the supplement. You can often just

change the brand because, due to the different ways they are made, the body

will often recognize different brands as different entities.

How often and how drastically you have to rotate is very individual,

depending on you and on the product, and that is where you really have to

listen to yourself. I myself try not to use any one product for more than a

few weeks and try not to go back to it for about the same amount of time.

However, it's true that Awareness products seem so state of the art and the

do recommend a 90 day cleansing period with them that I am going to do this.

Bob says he's been on them for nine months with absolutely no ill effects so

who knows? Again, it's a very individual thing. But do keep rotation in

mind.

Another way to avoid ill effects if there is a product you want to stay on

for a long time is to stay on it for ten days, then off four days, making two

week cycles. This is what my Chinese herbalist recommends for his herbs.

Finally you should be aware that psyllium is one of the most frequently

complained about " supplements " for developing intolerance. It's so bulky and

it tends to just get stuck. So once I finished the Awareness program, I

would alternate between different types of bulk products (the psylliums,

bentonite clays, etc.) and the gentle laxative type products such as aloe,

Irish Moss, Chinese herbs. (Avoid strong laxatives such as senna; they are

only to be used in emergencies). And when you do take psyllium you really

have to drink tons of water (filtered of course) to keep it moving. On the

other hand you may have to take additional vitamin/mineral supplementation

with the aloe type products to make up for what you lose. (It doesn't just

get lost in feces; you also lose a lot of urine, which can lead to

electrolyte [mineral] imbalance).

Finally I am a firm believer in colonics, the toilet stool and specific detox

for Parasites (CLEAR by AWARENESS does seem to be the best). Read up on

parasite infestation on the Net. Do a search under " VERMIFUGE " and " WORMS "

and/or " PARASITES " . You will no doubt be readily convinced that you can't do

a successful colon cleanse without specific parasite removal after you do

some exploration on this topic!

September 5, 1999

annette, hi, you didnt say what problems your having. have yo tried

colonics. i dont have any bowel problems , i believe, because i have a

monthly colonic and use enemas as well in between. e-mail me and i can tell

you about the colonics. fred

September 5, 1999

Thank you for the information on rotating products I had not considered

this but will now. AWARENESS are the only products I have tried. I believe

the body can tell when something new is entering it because any and every

substance has an energetic signature. The way in which the ingredients are

" combined " to make the product has the net effect of creating this

signature. As I understand, the EXPERIENCE takes 14 days to put together,

the end result is the unique energy that makes it work.

What I also do is change the method of taking a product or substance. This

relates to your point about becoming allergic or immune to it's effects. In

this case I call it plateauing. I often change the amount of water taken,

the time of day, or the dosage. I find this helps.

The way I do the EXPERIENCE cleanse is to take enough in order to have

about 2 good bowel movements per day. At the moment this is 3 capsules per

day. I take 2 capsules in the morning, one hour after breakfast, with 20

oz. of water (capsules broken open and stirred, let sit for 10 minutes) and

1 capsule at night (9 p.m.) with 20 oz. of water (filtered). Taking it

throughout the day increases the effects as your body is mostly vertical in

position and in motion rather than horizontal and stationary when sleeping.

When I started the cleanse I needed 5 capsules / day to achieve this. I

started with 1 / day and increased by 1 every 3 days until I could get 2

movements.

I agree that you can't do a successful colon cleanse without specific

parasite removal. As I understand, as we cleanse the colon and remove old

impacted matter, parasite eggs from years ago are exposed and do hatch and

grow starting a new infestation.

I would recommend to start on a colon cleanse/digestive cleanse first

before doing a parasite cleanse. This way the bowel will be functioning

properly and will be able to expel the parasites and toxins when the time

comes.

For the AWARENESS parasite cleanse. I first started with the EXPERIENCE as

described above. After 14 days I added HARMONY, which provides nourishment

and support for the body while cleansing. Then after another 2 weeks

started the CLEAR at 2 capsules / day upon awakening with 20 oz. of water.

I increased to 5 capsules / day by adding 1 capsule every 3-5 days. I

stayed on this saturation cleanse for 30 days (5 capsules / day). Now I am

taking 2 capsules / day. My maximum water consumption per day is about 100

oz., probably averages 70 oz.

What I have found is not to rush things. Start with small amounts and build

up until you get the effects that you are comfortable with, if you are

uncomfortable, cut back on the amounts. This way you can avoid a rapid

detox that can lead to problems. This is why it is important to have your

colon functioning properly when parasite cleansing. There are lots of

toxins coming out.

I know that the AWARENESS products have specific seed ingredients added to

them in order to address problems that can develop if taking herbs for

extended periods. Again, is it right for you?

I recommend reading on healing, healing crisis and what the body goes

through when cleansing. This way you are more prepared and know what to

expect.

Bob

At 07:42 AM 9/5/99 EDT, you wrote:

>From: RJGoldsmit@...

>Dear Bob, Annette and others,

>

>It's true you do have to listen to your own heart, regardless of what claims

>the product manufacturers and health practitioners make. Every body is

>individual. And Awareness also does make excellent products. They are

>recommended by the top bowel health practitioners in New York City and I am

>using them myself. Awareness is very expensive but well worth it.

>

>But I think the most important thing to remember is to rotate your

products.

> Through overexposure to anything we ingest, food, supplement, anything, we

>can eventually become allergic or immune to its effects. That's why we have

>to stay on one product for a certain amount of time, then change it. You

>rotate supplements similar to the way you rotate foods on a food rotation

>diet. You don't even have to change the supplement. You can often just

>change the brand because, due to the different ways they are made, the body

>will often recognize different brands as different entities.

>

>How often and how drastically you have to rotate is very individual,

>depending on you and on the product, and that is where you really have to

>listen to yourself. I myself try not to use any one product for more than a

>few weeks and try not to go back to it for about the same amount of time.

>However, it's true that Awareness products seem so state of the art and the

>do recommend a 90 day cleansing period with them that I am going to do

this.

>Bob says he's been on them for nine months with absolutely no ill effects so

>who knows? Again, it's a very individual thing. But do keep rotation in

>mind.

>

>Another way to avoid ill effects if there is a product you want to stay on

>for a long time is to stay on it for ten days, then off four days, making

two

>week cycles. This is what my Chinese herbalist recommends for his herbs.

>

>Finally you should be aware that psyllium is one of the most frequently

>complained about " supplements " for developing intolerance. It's so bulky

and

>it tends to just get stuck. So once I finished the Awareness program, I

>would alternate between different types of bulk products (the psylliums,

>bentonite clays, etc.) and the gentle laxative type products such as aloe,

>Irish Moss, Chinese herbs. (Avoid strong laxatives such as senna; they are

>only to be used in emergencies). And when you do take psyllium you really

>have to drink tons of water (filtered of course) to keep it moving. On the

>other hand you may have to take additional vitamin/mineral supplementation

>with the aloe type products to make up for what you lose. (It doesn't just

>get lost in feces; you also lose a lot of urine, which can lead to

>electrolyte [mineral] imbalance).

>

>Finally I am a firm believer in colonics, the toilet stool and specific

detox

>for Parasites (CLEAR by AWARENESS does seem to be the best). Read up on

>parasite infestation on the Net. Do a search under " VERMIFUGE " and " WORMS "

>and/or " PARASITES " . You will no doubt be readily convinced that you can't

do

>a successful colon cleanse without specific parasite removal after you do

>some exploration on this topic!

September 7, 1999

In a message dated 9/5/99 11:02:04, gdraft@... writes:

<< I know that the AWARENESS products have specific seed ingredients added to

them in order to address problems that can develop if taking herbs for

extended periods. Again, is it right for you?

>>

Thanks for your comments.

I was not aware that AWARENESS addresses this problem. That's interesting.

Perhaps circumvents the problem of having to rotate supplements. That would

be nice. Do you remember where you got this information. (Presumably from

the AWARENESS people themselves?)

The seeds are probably the " black seeds " which have several other names (I

think " fitches " is one of them?). I believe they are an ancient, Biblical

cure.

Personally I can't say how long the AWARENESS products are right for me

without rotation because a) I've only begun taking them this week and

CLEAR is the only Awareness product I'm taking. But I assume you really

think I should give Experience a go? I was going to do both Experience and

Clear but my distributor actually told me it wasn't necessary and I could use

a cheaper psyllium (which threw me for a loop as I would have expected them

to push the stuff on me...)

The colonic therapist I'm seeing in New York (who is also an ND--doctor of

naturopathy!) agrees with you about detoxing before going after parasites in

that she does not specifically address parasite issues (i.e. prescribe

anti-parasite herbs) until the second colonic (and her colonics are INTENSE

so you've gotten quite a bit out by then). But I had already been using

herbs for weeks before I went to this woman. They were effective but not

enough, not until the colonics. Which, again, seems to prove your point that

it is normally best to address parasites a bit AFTER you've done some

cleansing.

Robin

September 8, 1999

At 09:53 PM 9/7/99 EDT, you wrote:

>From: RJGoldsmit@...

>

>In a message dated 9/5/99 11:02:04, gdraft@... writes:

>

><< I know that the AWARENESS products have specific seed ingredients added to

>them in order to address problems that can develop if taking herbs for

>extended periods. Again, is it right for you?

> >>

>

>Thanks for your comments.

>

>I was not aware that AWARENESS addresses this problem. That's interesting.

>Perhaps circumvents the problem of having to rotate supplements. That would

>be nice. Do you remember where you got this information. (Presumably from

>the AWARENESS people themselves?)

Robin, This information is from Ahmad Aboukhazaal, the master herbalist,

from a talk given in Phoenix, Arizona in 1997.

" There are both herbs and seeds in our product. Seeds have oil in them -

which enables a person to take the product long-term. Without seeds it is

not wise to take herbs long-term - without seeds the colon would be

irritated. "

>Personally I can't say how long the AWARENESS products are right for me

>without rotation because a) I've only begun taking them this week and

>CLEAR is the only Awareness product I'm taking. But I assume you really

>think I should give Experience a go? I was going to do both Experience and

>Clear but my distributor actually told me it wasn't necessary and I could

use

>a cheaper psyllium (which threw me for a loop as I would have expected them

>to push the stuff on me...)

I am a distributor myself. I would always start a cleanse by taking

EXPERIENCE first. The digestive system and bowel needs to be functioning

well before you start to kill parasites. The parasites and their toxicity

needs to be expelled from the body quickly in order to avoid a toxic

buildup in the bowel and possible contribution to a healing crisis. Again

everyone is different but you should be having two good bowel movements per

day for at least 7 days in a row before beginning the CLEAR. The EXPERIENCE

ensures that the poisons are removed from the body quickly.

The products are balanced and alive and I feel they should be introduced

slowly and gently. The body needs time to recognize and adjust to them.

I will send you a set of instructions for the Cleanse that people in our

area use. Normally (starting from ground zero) you would start to take

CLEAR 3-4 weeks into the program.

>The colonic therapist I'm seeing in New York (who is also an ND--doctor of

>naturopathy!) agrees with you about detoxing before going after parasites in

>that she does not specifically address parasite issues (i.e. prescribe

>anti-parasite herbs) until the second colonic (and her colonics are INTENSE

>so you've gotten quite a bit out by then). But I had already been using

>herbs for weeks before I went to this woman. They were effective but not

>enough, not until the colonics. Which, again, seems to prove your point

that

>it is normally best to address parasites a bit AFTER you've done some

>cleansing.

Yes I agree with her approach.

Also note that the EXPERIENCE will remove the layers of fecal matter in the

colon, as this is removed parasite eggs will be newly exposed and hatch and

grow. The CLEAR will kill them, more EXPERIENCE will remove more matter

exposing more eggs etc. The psyllium will not remove the old fecal matter

or cleanse in the small intestine.

Bob

September 9, 1999

Please unsubscribe

Re: Welcome to bowel cleanseonelist

From: RJGoldsmit@...

In a message dated 9/5/99 11:02:04, gdraft@... writes:

<< I know that the AWARENESS products have specific seed ingredients added

to

them in order to address problems that can develop if taking herbs for

extended periods. Again, is it right for you?

>>

Thanks for your comments.

I was not aware that AWARENESS addresses this problem. That's interesting.

Perhaps circumvents the problem of having to rotate supplements. That would

be nice. Do you remember where you got this information. (Presumably from

the AWARENESS people themselves?)

The seeds are probably the " black seeds " which have several other names (I

think " fitches " is one of them?). I believe they are an ancient, Biblical

cure.

Personally I can't say how long the AWARENESS products are right for me

without rotation because a) I've only begun taking them this week and

CLEAR is the only Awareness product I'm taking. But I assume you really

think I should give Experience a go? I was going to do both Experience and

Clear but my distributor actually told me it wasn't necessary and I could

use

a cheaper psyllium (which threw me for a loop as I would have expected them

to push the stuff on me...)

The colonic therapist I'm seeing in New York (who is also an ND--doctor of

naturopathy!) agrees with you about detoxing before going after parasites in

that she does not specifically address parasite issues (i.e. prescribe

anti-parasite herbs) until the second colonic (and her colonics are INTENSE

so you've gotten quite a bit out by then). But I had already been using

herbs for weeks before I went to this woman. They were effective but not

enough, not until the colonics. Which, again, seems to prove your point

that

it is normally best to address parasites a bit AFTER you've done some

cleansing.

Robin

---------------------------

September 9, 1999

Dear Bob,

Thanks for all the great information regarding detox from parasites, and

CLEAR and AWARENESS products.

It's really too bad I didn't hook up with you sooner.

You're absolutely right, detoxing from parasites without first cleansing the

colon creates bad reactions. My own case was not as bad as my boyfriend's,

who got really severe fatigue and gas pains. In my case the whole thing just

took so damn LONGER than it should have. And you're right--probably I

should have gone the whole nine yards of the AWARENESS program.

Nevertheless at this point I am sticking to my DN in New York, her herbs (and

some of my own) and CLEAR without EXPERIENCE at the moment for the simple

reason that Trisha Rossi's program does not allow any psyllium products

during the initial seven steps of the program. This is because they need to

monitor the natural peristaltic action and find that the psyllium interferes.

Also she notes that many patients come with blockage due to psyllium.

Naturally for reasons we have discussed on onelist, EXPERIENCE should not

fall into that category. Still I'm going to respect her instructions not to

use any psyllium based product for the moment. However, I'd be interested in

finding out her opinion about EXPERIENCE in general. She is no doubt

knowledgeable about it as she is a distributor of CLEAR.

I will let you know what she says.

September 10, 1999

Hello Robin,

I understand more clearly now. The additional herbs and the colon therapy

will certainly have a bearing on how the treatment is done.

You should know that the Awareness products are energetically balanced.

When they are used together in any combination, i.e.) Clear, Experience and

Harmony, they work in synergy.

Also of note is the fact that the body can give up only so much of it's

toxicity at one time. There are limits to the amount of cleansing that can

be done over a fixed period of time.

Bob

At 07:48 PM 9/9/99 EDT, you wrote:

>From: RJGoldsmit@...

>

>Dear Bob,

>

>Thanks for all the great information regarding detox from parasites, and

>CLEAR and AWARENESS products.

>

>It's really too bad I didn't hook up with you sooner.

>

>You're absolutely right, detoxing from parasites without first cleansing the

>colon creates bad reactions. My own case was not as bad as my boyfriend's,

>who got really severe fatigue and gas pains. In my case the whole thing

just

>took so damn LONGER than it should have. And you're right--probably I

>should have gone the whole nine yards of the AWARENESS program.

>

>Nevertheless at this point I am sticking to my DN in New York, her herbs

(and

>some of my own) and CLEAR without EXPERIENCE at the moment for the simple

>reason that Trisha Rossi's program does not allow any psyllium products

>during the initial seven steps of the program. This is because they need to

>monitor the natural peristaltic action and find that the psyllium

interferes.

> Also she notes that many patients come with blockage due to psyllium.

>

>Naturally for reasons we have discussed on onelist, EXPERIENCE should not

>fall into that category. Still I'm going to respect her instructions not to

>use any psyllium based product for the moment. However, I'd be interested

in

>finding out her opinion about EXPERIENCE in general. She is no doubt

>knowledgeable about it as she is a distributor of CLEAR.

>

>I will let you know what she says.

September 12, 1999

Hi,

I have just joined the list after reading the parasite page. I was doing a

search for information on how to deal with gallstones, and this led to the

parasite page.

I have been having ongoing digestive problems for many years. Sometimes I

have periods of time when I seem to hit upon something that improves things,

then something will throw me off again. I am in one of those periods again,

and *sigh* researching out some " new " solution to this problem.

I was able to get my digestion on track and stay on track for over 6 months

with diet changes, acidophilus, and digestive enzymes but lately I think I

have strayed from diet changes, and not sure what has thrown me off this time.

Now, I am having a lot of bloating and pain right above my navel. I seem to

be reacting to fats in my diet as well. A year ago I was diagnosed by

ultrasound, as having one 3cm gallstone but refused to have my gallbladder

out. I am sure a major part of my problems is a gallbladder attack, but I

think there is more to it then that.

Reading about the gallstone oil/lemon drink...now I find I should be thinking

about trying a parasite cure first, and a bowel cleanse. That is the reason

I signed onto this group. I am confused, and searching for clarity about

what is the best route to head in.

So far, I have not read a post from anyone who has had similar difficulties

that I am having who has successfully identified and rid themselves of

parasites.

Although I certainly am open to the theory that many people have parasites

without knowing it, and I might be one of them....I find I am starting to

feel the same way about the issue of parasites as I have about Candida.

That is...I haven't heard any strong, firm information that convinces me that

there is actually some treatment available that actually rids you of this

problem. It seems to be something that once you have it you always have it,

and some treatments you can try, and diet changes might keep it manageable

but that is it. At least my initial investigations have not uncovered any

personal testimonials from anyone who has had this problem and successfully

over come it.

The friend I have who was diagnosed by stool sample at Great Smokies Lab, is

someone I know in my personal life offline, not someone I met online. After

receiving this diagnosis, he went through repeated antibiotic treatments from

an MD, with no success. Then he followed suggestions he found online for

grapefruit seed extract, etc. and although this seemed to bring a good

amount of relief, it was short lived. He then went to a naturopath who put

him through a series of treatments, and since then has been just about free

of digestive problems, but must stick to a very strict diet, and continues to

drink some morning coctail, with products I would not want to use.

I am hoping that anyone on this list, who has thought they might have

parasites, and has attempted to treat them would share their experiences good

or bad, so I can get an idea of what others are experiencing with this issue.

Is there anyone out here who has made a good attempt at identifying and

treating parasites and had success or not?

Sorry for the length of my post...hopefully I will be able to be brief in

future posts.

:-)

Jane

SlvrMoon2@...

September 12, 1999

In a message dated 9/12/99 8:49:51 AM Central Daylight Time,

SlvrMoon2@... writes:

<< Now, I am having a lot of bloating and pain right above my navel. I seem

to

be reacting to fats in my diet as well. A year ago I was diagnosed by

ultrasound, as having one 3cm gallstone but refused to have my gallbladder

out. I am sure a major part of my problems is a gallbladder attack, but I

think there is more to it then that. >>

A few months back a person on the intesrinal health list I am on was having

this and they all helped her thru it. To join go to www.sheilas.com and

follow instructions. I can certainly sympathize with the digestion problem.

I dealth with a night mare for 2 yrs and found the only thing that helped was

juicing and very little food. Am tons better now.

Edith

September 13, 1999

Hello everyone My name is Chrisy Shamblin I prefer to be called Raven Iam 24

yrs old live in charlotte nc with my life partner Arlaine Rockey(37yr) and

our two children; Marissa who is 6 and is 3.Okay to the point. My

mother who is 43 her name is Shamblin and lives in Point Pleasant, Wv,

has MS when she was my age she was having problems and the docs told her it

was in her head, so now she has MS at 43 because they could see it finally on

the MRI.So anyways, I was just hospitalized few weeks ago due to the fact I

was

having symtoms of MS they ran tests on me then discharged me told me it was

all in my head they said it was due to my depression and anxiety well ive

been the happiest and calmiest in the last year since i was born and I find

it hard to belive when I can't walk that its in my head when i cant sleep

cause my legs are tingling its in my head or when im standing in a public

place and a stranger ask me if I know that my neck is jerking i cant belive

that its in my head I have tons of problems way to many to go thru hear..like

not being able to feed myself at times, taking my little grrls meds , severe

fatigue, falling easy on days i can walk cause my bodyparts dont want to

listen to what my head tells them to do waking up at night to thinking my

arms are gone because i cant feel them, or my face is numb and i taste blood

in my mouth from where i was having tremors and bite my tounge and to think i

wouldnt known if i didnot see the blood on my finger or the fact that my

babies see me walk and say mommys walking today only to know soon ill be in

the bed upstairs in pain,or trying to feed my kids breakfast and having to

ask them to help cause i cant open things, okay ill stop now they say im

crazy its in my head and refuse to give me pain meds,Im seeing a holistic

doc and he is telling me its ms.Dont know where to turn at this point.

I was wondering if any of you out there have urinary troubles with MS?

I saw uroligist today <still in the phase of getting dx > and test showed

bladder is not empting right - its only emptying 1/3 of the way! Now I

need to check out my kidneys. He put me on antibiotics for two months while

they run tests but he thinks its part of the first stages of MS, or at least

a warning light that I have MS. He told me docs wont dx MS until they have

lesions they can see..sigh..told it could take a while for them to show up

ahhh...he started talking to me <u'll have to forgive me I cant spell> about

learning how to catherize myself... is there anyone out there who can help

me ...I'm scared

hanging by a shoe string,

Raven

September 14, 1999

In a message dated 9/12/99 08:49:57, SlvrMoon2@... writes:

<< I find I am starting to

feel the same way about the issue of parasites as I have about Candida.

That is...I haven't heard any strong, firm information that convinces me that

there is actually some treatment available that actually rids you of this

problem. It seems to be something that once you have it you always have it,

and some treatments you can try, and diet changes might keep it manageable

but that is it. >>

I am in the process of recovering from a very severe roundworm infestation.

I'm following a program that includes a series of colonics by a prominent

doctor of naturopathy and colonic therapist here in New York which includes

dietary changes, herbs and supplements, along with other herbs and

supplements I researched myself on the Internet, and Chinese herbs. (This

infection was so incredibly bad I really had to go all out just to start

functioning again).

I can't use myself as a testimonial for long-term cure of parasites although

my improvement has been dramatic, because I've only been on the program for a

little while so far. But I can tell you that through my travels I've come

across many well-documented claims of long-term cure. (On the other hand, I

did have severe candida for many years and treated this quite successfully,

although it's true, you always have to watch the sugar, but then, who

doesn't?).

I think you have to realize that people who develop parasites and candida are

people whose immune systems are severely impaired, due to years of poor

nutrition, stressful lives, possible antibiotic overuse, and other

environmental as well as possible hereditary factors. The parasites (of

which candida, a fungus, could technically be considered one, as it lives off

of you and gives nothing back) are merely a symptom of a deeper problem. (A

truly healthy person who ingests a couple of little worm eggs will be able to

expel them through an active immune system and a strong large intestine way

before infestation). The problem took many years to develop and does not go

away in a day. Naturally long-term " maintenance " is necessary.

Yet with the proliferation of toxins in food and environment and the high

stress load nowadays, it would be hard to find anyone who would not benefit

from a long-term " restricted " diet and supplements program. Just look around

you--how many people do you see who look healthy? Whether they have

parasites or not? And even if they feel " healthy " , how many are on Prozac

or some other antidepressant? These people could really use a long-term,

highly " restricted " diet.

When we talk about these diets are they really so " restricted " or is the

" normal " American diet the one that is strange? Which is unusual--the

anti-candida diet which allows no sugar or the American diet which purposely

puts sugar in everything--even cigarettes!-- in order to make people addicted

so they will buy more? Which is stranger--a raw food diet or a diet where

everything is burnt to a crisp, then processed and waits on the shelf for

months?

I think in this day and age anyone who wants to be healthy will have to make

major lifelong modifications in their diet and lifestyle. Having a

particular problem such as parasites can be a blessing in disguise--it can

force the person to adopt a diet and lifestyle very close to what everyone

should anyway. What I'm trying to say is that we should look at the dietary

modifications as a golden opportunity--not as an albatross around our neck.

(Specifically about the parasites, it seems that the best products available

are CLEAR and other AWARENESS products, and something called Intestinalis

which I haven't tried. Also the Hulda works because it has freshly

ground cloves. Many experts agree that whatever else you use you must use

black walnut, wormwood and cloves. But the black walnut has to say " green "

and the cloves have to be freshly ground when they are put in the capsules.

My nutritionist works on simultaneously rebuilding your immune system and

digestion through h a protocol not unlike the candida one--omegas, digestive

enzymes, acidophilus, highly assimilable multi-vites, sun chlorella algae and

lecithin. These are things which really most people should take anyway).

Finally I should say that in my case I did rid myself of candida after years.

And I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten the worms except that I went on a

self-abuse bad diet, cigarette and junk food binge during and following a

major depression. Which goes to show you 1) that candida can be gotten rid

of (I gorged myself on brownies and yet I had virtually no yeast), and 2)

that the candida was a symptom anyway. (I consider the candida, the

depression, the parasites, and also Epstein-Barr which I had to be all

symptoms of a deeper problem which I am addressing now).

Good luck.

Robin

September 19, 1999

> Finally you should be aware that psyllium is one of the most

> frequently complained about " supplements " for developing

> intolerance. It's so bulky and it tends to just get stuck.

Thats not 'intolerance', thats a symptom of not

drinking enough water. Psyllium is simply fiber, has

absolutely no nutritional value OR pharmaceutical

action, and it is impossible to develop a 'tolerance'

to it...you can only take too much, or take too little

water.

> So once I finished the Awareness program, I would alternate

> between different types of bulk products (the psylliums,

> bentonite clays, etc.) and the gentle laxative type products

> such as aloe, Irish Moss, Chinese herbs. (Avoid strong

> laxatives such as senna; they are only to be used in

> emergencies).

The Aloes are the STRONGEST of the emodin containing

herbs (emodin being the active ingredients in Senna,

Aloe and Cascara Sagrada).

> And when you do take psyllium you really have

> to drink tons of water (filtered of course) to keep it

> moving. On the other hand you may have to take additional

> vitamin/mineral supplementation with the aloe type products

> to make up for what you lose. (It doesn't just get lost in

> feces; you also lose a lot of urine, which can lead to

> electrolyte [mineral] imbalance).

This is why, as long as you are not eliminating

anything extremely toxic (pesticides, etc), urine

therapy can be so beneficial.

--

Marcus

September 22, 1999

In a message dated 9/12/99 23:59:23, GRREENGRRL@... writes:

<< I was just hospitalized few weeks ago due to the fact I

was

having symtoms of MS >>

A few weeks ago a doctor (possibly Dr. Dusan?) wrote a comprehensive program

of supplementation for MS to someone on this bowel cleanse list. Have you

heard from him or has anyone else forwarded this to you?

What you are going through sounds horrible. I'm so sorry.

I would also like a copy of this for myself if anyone has it--I would like to

send it on to a friend who has MS. Could someone please oblige?

Robin G.

September 22, 1999

In a message dated 9/19/99 23:56:58, cmarcus@... writes:

<< From: " Marcus " <cmarcus@...>

Psyllium is simply fiber, has

absolutely no nutritional value OR pharmaceutical

action, and it is impossible to develop a 'tolerance'

to it...you can only take too much, or take too little

water.

The Aloes are the STRONGEST of the emodin containing

herbs (emodin being the active ingredients in Senna,

Aloe and Cascara Sagrada).

as long as you are not eliminating

anything extremely toxic (pesticides, etc), urine

therapy can be so beneficial.

Marcus

>>

My responses to your responses to me: True there is no psyllium intolerance

properly speaking but an awful lot of people get so terribly blocked up by

continued psyllium use. Are you SURE it's just for lack of sufficient water?

And how much water after all is sufficient? Don't forget macrobiotic and

other " eastern " experts believe that too much water itself overloads the

kidneys despite others' claims that we should be guzzling it by the gallon.

What IS (or would be) sufficient water on a regular psyllium regime? Does

anyone else have any thoughts on psyllium?

True, aloe vera is very strong (thanks for the technical info about emodin),

but in the liquid forms it comes in don't you think it tends to be rather

mild and noninvasive and suitable for longisher-term intake than the others

you mentioned? Or do you disagree? I have stayed on aloe for weeks with

only positive effects as far as I could see while senna...I wouldn't even

consider it for more than a short-term acute treatment. It just seems way

too harsh to me.

About urine therapy could you elaborate. I know our urine is supposed to be

incredibly mineral-rich and have heard it is drunk for all kinds of things

including AIDS, but I do find it hard to swallow (pun intended). Your or any

other thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Robin G.

--

September 23, 1999

> From: RJGoldsmit@...

>

> In a message dated 9/19/99 23:56:58, cmarcus@...

writes:

>

> << From: " Marcus " <cmarcus@...>

>

> Psyllium is simply fiber, has

> absolutely no nutritional value OR pharmaceutical

> action, and it is impossible to develop a 'tolerance'

> to it...you can only take too much, or take too little

> water.

>

> The Aloes are the STRONGEST of the emodin containing

> herbs (emodin being the active ingredients in Senna,

> Aloe and Cascara Sagrada).

>

> as long as you are not eliminating

> anything extremely toxic (pesticides, etc), urine

> therapy can be so beneficial.

> Marcus

> >>

>

> My responses to your responses to me: True there is no

> psyllium intolerance properly speaking but an awful lot of

> people get so terribly blocked up by continued psyllium use.

> Are you SURE it's just for lack of sufficient water? And how

> much water after all is sufficient? Don't forget macrobiotic

> and other " eastern " experts believe that too much water

> itself overloads the kidneys despite others' claims that we

> should be guzzling it by the gallon. What IS (or would be)

> sufficient water on a regular psyllium regime? Does anyone

> else have any thoughts on psyllium?

Imho, when taking psyllium, you take as much water as

is necessary to keep the bowels moving regularly (2-4

bowel movements a day, depending on the number of meals

you eat). Everyone is different, but as a general rule

of thumb, I have found that if you take one extra glass

(8-12 ozs) of water for every psyllium shake (1-2

Tbs/glass of water), this will be sufficient. This may

be too much for some people, but some may need more.

While I agree that consistently drinking too much water

could cause kidney problems, far more people don't get

enough. I am talking about pure water, here. The water

from sodas, coffe, etc, don't count as pure water,

though they DO count as water as far as the kidneys are

concerned. My inclination is to believe that the

problem is not too much water per se, but too much BAD

water. When you are ONLY drinking pure water, there is

a strong tendency to drink just as much as your body

needs, and no more.

> True, aloe vera is very strong (thanks for the technical info

> about emodin), but in the liquid forms it comes in don't you

> think it tends to be rather mild and noninvasive and suitable

> for longisher-term intake than the others you mentioned? Or

> do you disagree?

I was speaking to the solid forms of aloe. I don't know

how much emodin, if any, survives the liquification

process.

> I have stayed on aloe for weeks with only

> positive effects as far as I could see while senna...I

> wouldn't even consider it for more than a short-term acute

> treatment. It just seems way too harsh to me.

From the sounds of it, then, there must not be much

emodin left in the liquid aloe.

> About urine therapy could you elaborate. I know our urine is

> supposed to be incredibly mineral-rich and have heard it is

> drunk for all kinds of things including AIDS, but I do find

> it hard to swallow (pun intended). Your or any other

> thoughts on this would be appreciated.

I know, me too. If you can, find a book called 'Your

Own Perfect Medicine), it has everything you want to

know. I can't remember the authors name off-hand, and

there are a few good web sites, but don't have those at

my fingertips either. I am sure someone on the list

will provide them, though, as that is where I got them

myself...

Take care...

--

Marcus

September 24, 1999

On 22 Sep 99, at 21:02, RJGoldsmit@... wrote:

> A few weeks ago a doctor (possibly Dr. Dusan?) wrote a comprehensive

> program of supplementation for MS to someone on this bowel cleanse list.

> Have you heard from him or has anyone else forwarded this to you?

Dusan would probably be quite amused reading that as he certainly is

no doctor. :-) Although I would also like to say that in my opinion

he knows much more about health than most doctors.

> I would also like a copy of this for myself if anyone has it--I would like

> to send it on to a friend who has MS. Could someone please oblige?

You will find what you are looking for at Dusan´s home page at

home.sol.no/~dusan/

Best regards, Ulf

ulftage@...

October 30, 1999

In a message dated 9/7/99 23:02:08, gdraft@... writes:

<< I will send you a set of instructions for the Cleanse that people in our

area use. Normally (starting from ground zero) you would start to take

CLEAR 3-4 weeks into the program. >>

Yes, Bob. Seven weeks later, I think you are going to have to send them to

me. I've been re-reading all your messages I saved regarding the Awareness

cleansing program trying to piece together the instructions, because I can't

seem to access the baseline instructions document any which way. Not by

baseline_instructions.doc; not by baseline_instructions.html. Not directly,

not through your web site and not by download. It says it's downloading and

then nothing comes up! You recently offered to e-mail them to me. I think

that would be the way to go.

I'm pretty regular now and my colon has been fairly rehabilitated, so I'm

sure I could start taking the Clear right away along with the Experience

without waiting the four weeks you recommend. (Anyway I've been taking it

already for weeks so I guess it was a stupid thing to say). But I do agree

with you that the sugars in Harmony would be a problem if not administered

very carefully so I will take them after one month and only following your

specific recs.

Also I tried to access your Audio and couldn't do it either. I got something

asking me to pay thirty dollars to get something and never got up to the part

where they requested the ID code. Ill try again as it may have been me, but

as far as the baseline instructions, I'm quite certain I just can't get in

there.

Robin

December 7, 1999

I just finished my very first bottle of Springreen 77 (Bentonite) and

didn't want to pay the going price, which is $14 a bottle if you can

find it. It took a LOT of online research to even find the company.

Nothing on the label says it is made by V.E. Irons, but I finally

tracked them down and found out that 6 bottles wholesale for $55.80, but

they will only sell to health practitioners, so you have to get a friend

to sign up for you. Their toll free phone number is 800-544-8147. They

want the business card and copy of business license of the person

ordering. They will sell to any doctor. I'll bet they would even sell to

a dentist. They said they would sell to chiropractors, so most people

should be able to find someone they will sell to. when I asked if they

would sell to health food stores they told me to call a jobber called

Shirley or Jim at 800-433-7395. Let me know if this works out for you.

Belinda

December 7, 1999

In a message dated 12/6/99 6:28:36 PM Central Standard Time,

rachezad@... writes:

<< just finished my very first bottle of Springreen 77 (Bentonite) and