Re: subclinical hypothyroidism

[Guest guest]

Jim, sounds very interesting. I will join because I was untreated for 30

years after a partial thyroidectomy because my tests were " normal " . How

insane is it to keep a person sick because of a test? have you seen

www.ithyroid.com ? It is alternative.

Gracia

>

> Hi,

>

> It seems that most of the people in this group are

> dealing with hypothyrodism

> that has been diagnosed by a doctor and that they are

> being treated with

> conventional drugs.

>

> There are a few of us who don't fall into this

> category. We have what

> Dale Guyer, M.D, of Indianapolis, calls " sub-clincial

> hypothyroidism "

> or " Low Thyroid Syndrome. "

>

> Many of us have had thyroid blood tests that come back

> with " normal "

> results, even though we have virtually all of the

> symptoms of hypothyroidism.

>

> I thought it might be good for folks who fall into

> that category to have a

> discussion group, so I have started a " subclinical

> hyperthyroidism " group on

> .

>

> I am not trying to get anyone to leave this group, but

> perhaps people

> in this group who have Low Thyroid Syndrome might want

> to ALSO

> be a part of the new group. I personally plan to

> continue on with this

> group.

>

> To join, go to .com and click on " groups. " Then,

> look for " illnesses "

> and then find " subclincial hypothyroidism. "

>

> My idea is to share information about dealing with

> this type of thyroid

> problem from an " alternative/holistic/complementary "

> medical standpoint.

> But anyone who has any kind of interest is welcome to

> join. It will

> be an open forum and will not be moderated. So, no

> censorship will

> take place as I have encountered in other

> (not this one).

>

> Jim

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

At 11:11 24.04.2002 -0700, you wrote:

>

>Hi,

>

>It seems that most of the people in this group are

>dealing with hypothyrodism

>that has been diagnosed by a doctor and that they are

>being treated with

>conventional drugs.

Actually, this group was set up as a support group for people interested in

alternatives.

Just because many members choose drugs, does not mean that same problems

could not be fixed with lifestyle/diet/ ... change..

Espen

[Guest guest]

I couldn't find the site, but it may just be a problem with " " .

Hall <jimchristianhall@...> wrote:

Hi,

It seems that most of the people in this group are

dealing with hypothyrodism

that has been diagnosed by a doctor and that they are

being treated with

conventional drugs.

There are a few of us who don't fall into this

category. We have what

Dale Guyer, M.D, of Indianapolis, calls " sub-clincial

hypothyroidism "

or " Low Thyroid Syndrome. "

Many of us have had thyroid blood tests that come back

with " normal "

results, even though we have virtually all of the

symptoms of hypothyroidism.

I thought it might be good for folks who fall into

that category to have a

discussion group, so I have started a " subclinical

hyperthyroidism " group on

.

I am not trying to get anyone to leave this group, but

perhaps people

in this group who have Low Thyroid Syndrome might want

to ALSO

be a part of the new group. I personally plan to

continue on with this

group.

To join, go to .com and click on " groups. " Then,

look for " illnesses "

and then find " subclincial hypothyroidism. "

My idea is to share information about dealing with

this type of thyroid

problem from an " alternative/holistic/complementary "

medical standpoint.

But anyone who has any kind of interest is welcome to

join. It will

be an open forum and will not be moderated. So, no

censorship will

take place as I have encountered in other

(not this one).

Jim

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim

You may be interested in this forum

http://forums.about.com/ab-altmedoption/start. It is a forum for discussion

of alternative medicine options for thyroid disease

Sally

Subclinical hypothyroidism

>

> Hi,

>

> It seems that most of the people in this group are

> dealing with hypothyrodism

> that has been diagnosed by a doctor and that they are

> being treated with

> conventional drugs.

>

> There are a few of us who don't fall into this

> category. We have what

> Dale Guyer, M.D, of Indianapolis, calls " sub-clincial

> hypothyroidism "

> or " Low Thyroid Syndrome. "

>

> Many of us have had thyroid blood tests that come back

> with " normal "

> results, even though we have virtually all of the

> symptoms of hypothyroidism.

>

> I thought it might be good for folks who fall into

> that category to have a

> discussion group, so I have started a " subclinical

> hyperthyroidism " group on

> .

>

> I am not trying to get anyone to leave this group, but

> perhaps people

> in this group who have Low Thyroid Syndrome might want

> to ALSO

> be a part of the new group. I personally plan to

> continue on with this

> group.

>

> To join, go to .com and click on " groups. " Then,

> look for " illnesses "

> and then find " subclincial hypothyroidism. "

>

> My idea is to share information about dealing with

> this type of thyroid

> problem from an " alternative/holistic/complementary "

> medical standpoint.

> But anyone who has any kind of interest is welcome to

> join. It will

> be an open forum and will not be moderated. So, no

> censorship will

> take place as I have encountered in other

> (not this one).

>

> Jim

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Jan,

Print this out for the endocrinologist (It's from the Medline database) and

try a little extra zinc! It worked for Liam.

Kathy, Liam's mom(4)

1: Biol Trace Elem Res 1999 Mar;67(3):257-68

Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Zinc sulfate supplementation improves thyroid function in hypozincemic

Down children.

Bucci I, Napolitano G, Giuliani C, Lio S, Minnucci A, Di Giacomo F, Calabrese

G,

Sabatino G, Palka G, Monaco F

Cattedra di Endocrinologia, Universita G. D'Annunzio, Chieti, Italy.

In subjects affected by trisomy 21 (Down syndrome), hypothyroidism is the

most common

endocrinological deficit. Plasma zinc levels, which are commonly detected

below the normal

range in Down patients, are related to some endocrinological and

immunological functions; in fact,

zinc deficiency has been shown to impair immune response and growth rate.

Aims of this study

were to evaluate (1) the role of zinc deficiency in subclinical

hypothyroidism and (2) thyroid

function changes in Down children cyclically supplemented with zinc sulfate.

Inverse correlations

have been observed between age and triiodotironine (T3) and between zinc and

thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH); higher TSH levels have been found in

hypozincemic patients

at the beginning of the study. After 6 mo of supplementation, an improvement

of thyroid function

(TSH levels: 3.96 1.84 vs 2.64 1.33 mUI/mL basally and after 6 mo,

respectively) was

observed in hypozincemic patients. In the second cycle of supplementation, a

similar trend of

TSH was observed. At the end of the study, TSH significantly decreased in

treated hypozincemic

subjects (4.48 1.93 vs 2.96 1.20 mUI/mL) and it was no longer different in

comparison

to normozincemic patients. We suggest zinc supplementation to the diet in

hypozincemic Down

children as a simple and useful therapeutic tool.

Publication Types:

Clinical trial

PMID: 10201332, UI: 99215515

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan,

When Alec was the same age, his T3 and T4 levels were normal and his TSH was

high. We consulted with an endocrinologist who continued to test Alec, but

did not put him on any medication. Alec is now 9 and his TSH levels have

been normal for the last 2 years. He was recently retested and we are

waiting for the results.

Lori

[Guest guest]

>

> > ... I have recently had elevated TSH,

> > with normal T3 and T4 numbers, a condition known and diagnosed

> > rather unhelpfully as " clinicial hypothyroidism. "

>

> I dunno; that phrase is rather meaningful to everyone here.

>

> Which T3/T4 numbers? Total T3 and Total T4 are not particularly helpful.

> It is a low Free T3 that mainly causes TSH to go up. That is also the

> one that makes you feel healthy. The fraction of Free T4 is generally

> proportional to the fraction of Free T3, and it is much easier (cheaper)

> to measure. Consequently, Free T4 is the more common used lab result,

> but they want it to deduce the impact of your medication on Free T3.

>

> Only a few percent of each is free. The rest is bound up with globulin

> and albumin. So, the active part that keeps us functioning is highly

> leveraged. A small change in globulin binding can make a huge change in

> how we feel with no change in thyroid output. OTOH, the binding fraction

> is usually fairly stable unless you are dieting, starving, exercising

> heavily, stressed, or ill.

>

> You didn't mention HOW elevated your TSH was, or whether you are

> medicated. When you share numbers, please include your lab's normal

> range. Different countries have different ways of calibrating. Also, the

> size of the TSH is more an indicator of HOW LONG you have been hypoT

> than how severe it is, although that is also a component. Your pituitary

> keeps raising the TSH when the thyroid fails to respond.

>

> Watch for the extra iodine to make you feel worse. That's an indicator

> that you have Hashimoto's (autoimmune) thyroiditis. If you are

> medicated, that should be all the iodide ion you need, unless something

> else is going on. If all thyroid function is gone, there is not much

> else for iodide to do except be a toxin to be eliminated. Consequently,

> I would suggest you do one or the other, but not both at the same time.

>

> Chuck

OK, I have warmed up to this group and feel a little more comfortable

sharing this personal information. My TSH in July was measured at a

little over 5 on a scale of 0.3-5.5. This did not draw my doctor's

attention, but my own research suggested it was rather high despite

falling within the range. So, at the end of November we reran the

test and also gathered some T3/T4 numbers. The TSH had risen to 7,

yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181 and

Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was subclinical

hypothyroidism. We ran a test last month of antibodies which both came

back fine. That much is good news, but I really don't know where this

diagnosis leaves me. My doctor has offered to prescribe hormones, but

I'm not sure which ones would be suggested for this case and I'm not

real keen on the idea anyway. We instead scheduled another test for

June to monitor the situation. In the meantime, I'm trying to learn

all I can and am hoping there is some dietary modification or supplement

that might help. I have started adding sea veggie sprinkles to my food

for iodine (I am on a very low sodium diet).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks, -

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

> ... The TSH had risen to 7,

> yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181 and

> Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was subclinical

> hypothyroidism. ...

Even under the old rules, a TSH above the reference range was considered

" clinical " rather than " subclinical " hypothyroidism. Today, some will

call it " clinical " if the TSH is just at the high end. So, I would take

him up on a prescription for thyroid replacement just to see if it helps.

Antibodies can go up and down. You may have caught them in a quite

period. So, the next time you need to test, ask for a panel that repeats

the antibody test, just to be sure. If the antibodies show up, it can

invalidate some of the other tests, especially the T4 and T3.

OTOH, this kind of marginal situation suggests adrenal involvement. I'll

let the experts on that tell you what to do about that possibility.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck: I am new to this hypothyroidism web site and would like to know what the

recommended food plan is. Is there a specific diet that can help to allieviate

some of the distress the disease causes? Thank You for your input.

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: ,

You wrote:

> ... The TSH had risen to 7,

> yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181 and

> Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was subclinical

> hypothyroidism. ...

Even under the old rules, a TSH above the reference range was considered

" clinical " rather than " subclinical " hypothyroidism. Today, some will

call it " clinical " if the TSH is just at the high end. So, I would take

him up on a prescription for thyroid replacement just to see if it helps.

Antibodies can go up and down. You may have caught them in a quite

period. So, the next time you need to test, ask for a panel that repeats

the antibody test, just to be sure. If the antibodies show up, it can

invalidate some of the other tests, especially the T4 and T3.

OTOH, this kind of marginal situation suggests adrenal involvement. I'll

let the experts on that tell you what to do about that possibility.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

>

> > ... The TSH had risen to 7,

> > yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181 and

> > Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was subclinical

> > hypothyroidism. ...

>

> Even under the old rules, a TSH above the reference range was considered

> " clinical " rather than " subclinical " hypothyroidism. Today, some will

> call it " clinical " if the TSH is just at the high end. So, I would take

> him up on a prescription for thyroid replacement just to see if it helps.

It is my understanding the subclinical diagnosis is made when

the TSH is high, but the T3 and T4 are (still?) normal. What

exactly would one want to take for hormones if they are already

at reasonable levels?

> Antibodies can go up and down. You may have caught them in a quite

> period. So, the next time you need to test, ask for a panel that repeats

> the antibody test, just to be sure. If the antibodies show up, it can

> invalidate some of the other tests, especially the T4 and T3.

Figures. I will try to make sure he tests them again in June

and doesn't treat them as writ in stone. Thanks.

> OTOH, this kind of marginal situation suggests adrenal involvement. I'll

> let the experts on that tell you what to do about that possibility.

We also tested AM cortisol. It was slightly elevated (27.2 w/a

ref range of 4-22). Despite my continued prodding, he said this

was fine, as it was not low (apparently his main concern) and was

not high enough to indicate Cushing's Syndrome.

Regarding treatments, do any of you have knowledge/experience in

diet or supplementation routes? For example, there's iodine and

L-tyrosine. And a couple of the sponsor links on our group's

page offer herbal and homeopathic remedies. Examples of the former

and latter, respectively:

http://www.nativeremedies.com/thyroid-assist-treatment-hypothyroidism.shtml

http://ahealthyalternative.itcstore.com/store/product.aspx?prdId=272037

Both look rather sketchy to me, but the idea is appealing anyway.

Thanks,

-

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

> It is my understanding the subclinical diagnosis is made when

> the TSH is high, but the T3 and T4 are (still?) normal. What

> exactly would one want to take for hormones if they are already

> at reasonable levels? ...

Subclinical means that a set of indicator symptoms are not confirmed by

chemical tests. Before T3 and T4 assays became widely available, the

main or only test used was TSH. Thus, at one time, subclinical meant

symptoms with a high normal, or slightly above normal, TSH. With other

tests and other protocols for each test, the accepted definition has

necessarily changed.

One major issue with a subclinical diagnosis is whether the tests you

had are reliable or relevant. Free T3 is the one that really controls

the symptoms, so a normal Total T4 or Total T3 test may not be

completely meaningful, particularly if conversion to T3 is messed up or

if too large a fraction of T3 is bound by albumin and globulin.

The other big issue is the effect of antibodies, which may or may not

change the other readings. However, you had no antibodies detected, so

this is less likely, unless you are in a very early stage of thyroid

deterioration. If so, a small supplementation in either or both T4 and

T3 might help with symptoms or their anticipated progression, as your

doctor volunteered. Just watch for hyperT symptoms. That would tell you

to back off the dosage.

As with many dietary supplements, iodine (iodide) will mainly be of help

if you are iodine deficient. It _may_ also help with a sluggish gland

that is still using iodine to make the hormone, in which case it could

also cause you to go hyperT, the same as T4/T3 replacement.

If thyroid function is seriously impaired, iodine supplementation will

not help at all and could become toxic, simply adding to the burden of

chemicals to be eliminated. It should also be avoided if you do take the

T4/T3 in any form. Remember, these molecules ARE iodine. The numbers -4

and -3 refer to the number of iodine atoms attached to each hormone

molecule.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

TSH is not a good way to Dx hypothyroidism. I was extremely hypo with a TSH

of 1. However in your case the TSH is way over the range (.3-3). It is not

subclinical. I guess you don't have any hypo symptoms b/c that's what

needs to be treated, not a piece of paper! Why are you on a low salt diet?

Most of us have been tested ad infinitum, sure it is fun and good for the

economy, but we do better with a smart doc and proper treatment.

Gracia

> OK, I have warmed up to this group and feel a little more comfortable

> sharing this personal information. My TSH in July was measured at a

> little over 5 on a scale of 0.3-5.5. This did not draw my doctor's

> attention, but my own research suggested it was rather high despite

> falling within the range. So, at the end of November we reran the

> test and also gathered some T3/T4 numbers. The TSH had risen to 7,

> yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181 and

> Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was subclinical

> hypothyroidism. We ran a test last month of antibodies which both came

> back fine. That much is good news, but I really don't know where this

> diagnosis leaves me. My doctor has offered to prescribe hormones, but

> I'm not sure which ones would be suggested for this case and I'm not

> real keen on the idea anyway. We instead scheduled another test for

> June to monitor the situation. In the meantime, I'm trying to learn

> all I can and am hoping there is some dietary modification or supplement

> that might help. I have started adding sea veggie sprinkles to my food

> for iodine (I am on a very low sodium diet).

>

> Any thoughts would be appreciated.

> Thanks, -

>

>

>

>

>

--

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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[Guest guest]

>

>

> TSH is not a good way to Dx hypothyroidism. I was extremely hypo

with a TSH

> of 1. However in your case the TSH is way over the range (.3-3).

It is not

> subclinical. I guess you don't have any hypo symptoms b/c that's

what

> needs to be treated, not a piece of paper!

Well, that's certainly not true. I have the cold hands and feet,

and it was exhaustion/tiredness/apathy that forced me into the

docs office in the first place.

> Why are you on a low salt diet?

Self-imposed. I was not happy with my blood pressure. Though

not officially in the HBP range, I'm in my early 30's and did

not like where it was. The diet has helped with that, but I

may have given myself something of an iodine deficiency. My

multi has 75% RDA. I think I feel a little better with the sea

veggies added to my diet (though the hands are still ice), but

I was using them for a little while between the 5 and 7 TSH

readings, so the lack of improvement displeased me. Like I said,

the doc is willing to prescribe hormones. It is me that is wary.

I really would like to resolve this naturally. And it doesn't

make sense to me (yet?) how taking T3 or T4 helps when they are

already normal. " Only " the TSH is out of wack (so far?).

> Most of us have been tested ad infinitum, sure it is fun and good

for the

> economy, but we do better with a smart doc and proper treatment.

> Gracia

>

> > OK, I have warmed up to this group and feel a little more

comfortable

> > sharing this personal information. My TSH in July was measured

at a

> > little over 5 on a scale of 0.3-5.5. This did not draw my

doctor's

> > attention, but my own research suggested it was rather high

despite

> > falling within the range. So, at the end of November we reran

the

> > test and also gathered some T3/T4 numbers. The TSH had risen to

7,

> > yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181

and

> > Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was

subclinical

> > hypothyroidism. We ran a test last month of antibodies which

both came

> > back fine. That much is good news, but I really don't know

where this

> > diagnosis leaves me. My doctor has offered to prescribe

hormones, but

> > I'm not sure which ones would be suggested for this case and I'm

not

> > real keen on the idea anyway. We instead scheduled another test

for

> > June to monitor the situation. In the meantime, I'm trying to

learn

> > all I can and am hoping there is some dietary modification or

supplement

> > that might help. I have started adding sea veggie sprinkles to

my food

> > for iodine (I am on a very low sodium diet).

> >

> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.

> > Thanks, -

[Guest guest]

your T3 is very low - at the bottom of the reference range.

I think you should educate yourself about anything you take - if you

don't feel comfortable about the hormones keep reading.

I was the same but I tried every nutritional substance on earth with not

much improvement.

My labs were more normal than yours and I had terrible symptoms - so

exhausted I had to quit work and extremely depressed.

My 3 year long depression cleared up in weeks when I began taking T3.

My numbers are now at the top of the reference range or even over the

top and my doc understands that for me this is where they have to be for

me to get any relief from symptoms.

I am also doing a course of homepathics to get to the bottom of what

imbalanced me in the first place.

Kerry

Re: subclinical hypothyroidism

>

>

> TSH is not a good way to Dx hypothyroidism. I was extremely hypo

with a TSH

> of 1. However in your case the TSH is way over the range (.3-3).

It is not

> subclinical. I guess you don't have any hypo symptoms b/c that's

what

> needs to be treated, not a piece of paper!

Well, that's certainly not true. I have the cold hands and feet,

and it was exhaustion/tiredness/apathy that forced me into the

docs office in the first place.

> Why are you on a low salt diet?

Self-imposed. I was not happy with my blood pressure. Though

not officially in the HBP range, I'm in my early 30's and did

not like where it was. The diet has helped with that, but I

may have given myself something of an iodine deficiency. My

multi has 75% RDA. I think I feel a little better with the sea

veggies added to my diet (though the hands are still ice), but

I was using them for a little while between the 5 and 7 TSH

readings, so the lack of improvement displeased me. Like I said,

the doc is willing to prescribe hormones. It is me that is wary.

I really would like to resolve this naturally. And it doesn't

make sense to me (yet?) how taking T3 or T4 helps when they are

already normal. " Only " the TSH is out of wack (so far?).

> Most of us have been tested ad infinitum, sure it is fun and good

for the

> economy, but we do better with a smart doc and proper treatment.

> Gracia

>

> > OK, I have warmed up to this group and feel a little more

comfortable

> > sharing this personal information. My TSH in July was measured

at a

> > little over 5 on a scale of 0.3-5.5. This did not draw my

doctor's

> > attention, but my own research suggested it was rather high

despite

> > falling within the range. So, at the end of November we reran

the

> > test and also gathered some T3/T4 numbers. The TSH had risen to

7,

> > yet the T3 and T4 were normal (T3 total 99 w/ref range of 80-181

and

> > Free T4 1.2 against range of 0.8-1.8), so the diagnosis was

subclinical

> > hypothyroidism. We ran a test last month of antibodies which

both came

> > back fine. That much is good news, but I really don't know

where this

> > diagnosis leaves me. My doctor has offered to prescribe

hormones, but

> > I'm not sure which ones would be suggested for this case and I'm

not

> > real keen on the idea anyway. We instead scheduled another test

for

> > June to monitor the situation. In the meantime, I'm trying to

learn

> > all I can and am hoping there is some dietary modification or

supplement

> > that might help. I have started adding sea veggie sprinkles to

my food

> > for iodine (I am on a very low sodium diet).

> >

> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.

> > Thanks, -

[Guest guest]

,

You asked:

> Chuck: I am new to this hypothyroidism web site and would like to know

> what the recommended food plan is. ...

Please let us know when you find out what that is.

You ask an excellent question, about which you will find a range of

opinions here. We seem to agree there is a list of things to avoid,

especially if you have at least some thyroid function left. This

includes goitrogen foods: http://www.ithyroid.com/goitrogens.htm .

I personally eat many of the goitrogens, particularly nuts and raw

broccoli, but I have no thyroid function left, nothing left to lose. I

still avoid soy, because it apparently goes after thyroxine in serum. I

have not noticed any effect from the other goitrogens, since I am on a

full replacement dose of thyroxine.

I also try to minimize consumption of fluoride. This is another bad

actor that is toxic to both an active thyroid gland and thyroid hormones

in the blood. Black tea is particularly rich in thyroid, so the only tea

I have any more is green tea, and that is pretty rare, coffee being an

essential nutrient, at least to me. Herbal teas are not a problem for

fluoride. The amount in city water supplies is a concern. Check with

your public water company.

Iodine is toxic if you get too much, and it has especially bad effects

for those with Hashimoto's. It seems to stimulate the antibody attack. I

would not take iodine (e.g. kelp) unless you have evidence of a

deficiency. That could be the case for someone with untreated symptoms,

someone not taking hormone replacements, which, in fact, are a

concentrated form of iodine.

As to what TO eat, most of us are fighting weight problems. HypoT also

puts us at risk of high-cholesterol induced cardiac and stroke and type

II diabetes. Diet is probably where the widest range of controversy

lies. Many of us have tried the extremely low carbohydrate diets and

lost some weight. However, I found that after about 10 months, even the

extreme induction form of the diet no longer worked. I think my

metabolism had simply adapted. It just took longer than it takes to

adapt to a low fat diet.

OTOH, hypothyroidism seems to make us particularly susceptible to the

effects of high glycemic index foods. So, I still try to minimize sugars

and simple or refined starches along with saturated and especially trans

fats. We have had a couple of testimonials for coconut oil, but it did

absolutely nothing for me.

Some on the list will give you a long list of supplements they swear by.

I think some of us could stock a health food store with what is in their

medicine cabinets. However, some things seem to be on everyone's list.

The first is selenium, since it helps with T4-T3 conversion. As with

iodine, though, too much is toxic. Make sure you aren't getting it from

multiple sources.

Another supplement that is frequently mentioned is vitamin B-12. For me

it helps with energy level if taken or injected intermittently. Too

often, and I get jittery, can't sleep, and feel rather wiped out and

uncomfortable.

In summary, diet won't help much with the primary symptoms unless the

hormone levels are properly balanced. For most of us, that means getting

the dosage or combination of replacement hormones right. Once that is

fixed, the main concern is choosing a " healthy diet " that controls the

weight gain. However, we have lots of conflicting opinions on what that

means.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Kerry,

Of course I agree with you. But how much T3 are you taking currently?

Gail

>

> your T3 is very low - at the bottom of the reference range.

>

> I think you should educate yourself about anything you take - if you

> don't feel comfortable about the hormones keep reading.

>

> I was the same but I tried every nutritional substance on earth

with not

> much improvement.

>

> My labs were more normal than yours and I had terrible symptoms - so

> exhausted I had to quit work and extremely depressed.

> My 3 year long depression cleared up in weeks when I began taking

T3.

>

> My numbers are now at the top of the reference range or even over

the

> top and my doc understands that for me this is where they have to

be for

> me to get any relief from symptoms.

>

> I am also doing a course of homepathics to get to the bottom of what

> imbalanced me in the first place.

>

> Kerry

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Hold onto this message, will you? I suspect it is going to be a

useful one to repeat as situations warrant, and new people come on

board.

Gail

>

> ,

>

> You asked:

>

> > Chuck: I am new to this hypothyroidism web site and would like to

know

> > what the recommended food plan is. ...

>

> Please let us know when you find out what that is.

>

> You ask an excellent question, about which you will find a range of

> opinions here. We seem to agree there is a list of things to avoid,

> especially if you have at least some thyroid function left. This

> includes goitrogen foods: http://www.ithyroid.com/goitrogens.htm .

>

> I personally eat many of the goitrogens, particularly nuts and raw

> broccoli, but I have no thyroid function left, nothing left to

lose. I

> still avoid soy, because it apparently goes after thyroxine in

serum. I

> have not noticed any effect from the other goitrogens, since I am

on a

> full replacement dose of thyroxine.

>

> I also try to minimize consumption of fluoride. This is another bad

> actor that is toxic to both an active thyroid gland and thyroid

hormones

> in the blood. Black tea is particularly rich in thyroid, so the

only tea

> I have any more is green tea, and that is pretty rare, coffee being

an

> essential nutrient, at least to me. Herbal teas are not a problem

for

> fluoride. The amount in city water supplies is a concern. Check

with

> your public water company.

>

> Iodine is toxic if you get too much, and it has especially bad

effects

> for those with Hashimoto's. It seems to stimulate the antibody

attack. I

> would not take iodine (e.g. kelp) unless you have evidence of a

> deficiency. That could be the case for someone with untreated

symptoms,

> someone not taking hormone replacements, which, in fact, are a

> concentrated form of iodine.

>

> As to what TO eat, most of us are fighting weight problems. HypoT

also

> puts us at risk of high-cholesterol induced cardiac and stroke and

type

> II diabetes. Diet is probably where the widest range of controversy

> lies. Many of us have tried the extremely low carbohydrate diets

and

> lost some weight. However, I found that after about 10 months, even

the

> extreme induction form of the diet no longer worked. I think my

> metabolism had simply adapted. It just took longer than it takes to

> adapt to a low fat diet.

>

> OTOH, hypothyroidism seems to make us particularly susceptible to

the

> effects of high glycemic index foods. So, I still try to minimize

sugars

> and simple or refined starches along with saturated and especially

trans

> fats. We have had a couple of testimonials for coconut oil, but it

did

> absolutely nothing for me.

>

> Some on the list will give you a long list of supplements they

swear by.

> I think some of us could stock a health food store with what is in

their

> medicine cabinets. However, some things seem to be on everyone's

list.

> The first is selenium, since it helps with T4-T3 conversion. As

with

> iodine, though, too much is toxic. Make sure you aren't getting it

from

> multiple sources.

>

> Another supplement that is frequently mentioned is vitamin B-12.

For me

> it helps with energy level if taken or injected intermittently. Too

> often, and I get jittery, can't sleep, and feel rather wiped out

and

> uncomfortable.

>

> In summary, diet won't help much with the primary symptoms unless

the

> hormone levels are properly balanced. For most of us, that means

getting

> the dosage or combination of replacement hormones right. Once that

is

> fixed, the main concern is choosing a " healthy diet " that controls

the

> weight gain. However, we have lots of conflicting opinions on what

that

> means.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Gail,

You wrote:

> Chuck,

> Hold onto this message, will you? ...

I keep thinking an FAQ file would be useful to send to new subscribers,

but since subscribing is all automated, it would have to be posted to

everyone. If the old timers don't mind having to delete periodically, we

could do it that way.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail - the dose that cured the depression was very high - I was doing

's Protocol and took time release T3 in three week cycles of up to

150mcg per day (no t4 during this time)

I couldn't say if normal doses of T3 would eliminate depression although

on my current dose of 60mcg Time release I suffer from occasional mild

depression - nothing like the deep depression of a few years ago.

Kerry

Re: subclinical hypothyroidism

Kerry,

Of course I agree with you. But how much T3 are you taking currently?

Gail

>

> your T3 is very low - at the bottom of the reference range.

>

> I think you should educate yourself about anything you take - if you

> don't feel comfortable about the hormones keep reading.

>

> I was the same but I tried every nutritional substance on earth

with not

> much improvement.

>

> My labs were more normal than yours and I had terrible symptoms - so

> exhausted I had to quit work and extremely depressed.

> My 3 year long depression cleared up in weeks when I began taking

T3.

>

> My numbers are now at the top of the reference range or even over

the

> top and my doc understands that for me this is where they have to

be for

> me to get any relief from symptoms.

>

> I am also doing a course of homepathics to get to the bottom of what

> imbalanced me in the first place.

>

> Kerry

>

[Guest guest]

great idea but fix the typo first - you said thyroid instead of fluoride

in black tea.

Kerry

Re: Re: subclinical hypothyroidism

Gail,

You wrote:

> Chuck,

> Hold onto this message, will you? ...

I keep thinking an FAQ file would be useful to send to new subscribers,

but since subscribing is all automated, it would have to be posted to

everyone. If the old timers don't mind having to delete periodically, we

could do it that way.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kerry. I have an appointment to see my hormones Dr. tomorrow,

and as my four grains of dessicated plus 20 mg of Cortef have not done

much, if anything, for my fibromyalgia, I am going to ask the Dr. for

straight T3. After all this time I have to come to the conclusion that

nothing that has T4 in it is doing my fibro any good. I don't have Dr.

Lowe's book (it's very expensive!) but I have read everything I can on

his website. I figure I just go off dessicated, titrate upwards from

about 50 mcg, 6.5, or 5 mcg T3(depending on whether it's plain or time-

released) per week. I'm just not too sure how far I should be going

with T3. But maybe time will tell. I hadn't envisioned going quite so

high as 150 mcg, not long-term anyway. Think good thoughts that my Dr.

will allow me to try this.

Gail

>

> Hi Gail - the dose that cured the depression was very high - I was

doing

> 's Protocol and took time release T3 in three week cycles of up

to

> 150mcg per day (no t4 during this time)

> I couldn't say if normal doses of T3 would eliminate depression

although

> on my current dose of 60mcg Time release I suffer from occasional mild

> depression - nothing like the deep depression of a few years ago.

> Kerry

>

[Guest guest]

It doesn't take long to delete for us " old timers " . :-) So, will you

work on an FAQ file?

Gail

> > Chuck,

> > Hold onto this message, will you? ...

>

> I keep thinking an FAQ file would be useful to send to new

subscribers,

> but since subscribing is all automated, it would have to be posted to

> everyone. If the old timers don't mind having to delete periodically,

we

> could do it that way.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

HI Gail - why would you want to go off the desiccated? Don't you need

the T4 as well?

When I was switching between types of thyroid I would decrease one and

increase the new one - not changing my overall dose at all - I have

found that changing doses or meds can be very stressful on the body so

its best to be very careful.

I also found that for me, one grain of Armour did not equal 60mcg of

Thyroxine - it actually equalled the exact amount of its ingredients -

39mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 so when you are equating the doses make sure

you are taking enough of the synthetics to compensate.

For example if you were taking 2 grains of armour this is supposed to

equal 120mcg of Thyroxine - well I found that it equalled 78mcg of

thyroxine and 18 mcg of T3. It is just not interchangeable IMO and needs

to be experimented with.

If you were to do the T3 alone I would recommend that you go to Dr

's site and read his on-line manual - perhaps if you do this

before you see your doc you will be armed with more info.

www.wilsonssyndrome.com

good luck

Kerry

Re: subclinical hypothyroidism

Thanks Kerry. I have an appointment to see my hormones Dr. tomorrow,

and as my four grains of dessicated plus 20 mg of Cortef have not done

much, if anything, for my fibromyalgia, I am going to ask the Dr. for

straight T3. After all this time I have to come to the conclusion that

nothing that has T4 in it is doing my fibro any good. I don't have Dr.

Lowe's book (it's very expensive!) but I have read everything I can on

his website. I figure I just go off dessicated, titrate upwards from

about 50 mcg, 6.5, or 5 mcg T3(depending on whether it's plain or time-

released) per week. I'm just not too sure how far I should be going

with T3. But maybe time will tell. I hadn't envisioned going quite so

high as 150 mcg, not long-term anyway. Think good thoughts that my Dr.

will allow me to try this.

Gail

>

> Hi Gail - the dose that cured the depression was very high - I was

doing

> 's Protocol and took time release T3 in three week cycles of up

to

> 150mcg per day (no t4 during this time)

> I couldn't say if normal doses of T3 would eliminate depression

although

> on my current dose of 60mcg Time release I suffer from occasional mild

> depression - nothing like the deep depression of a few years ago.

> Kerry

>

[Guest guest]

Kerry,

I think I must have peripheral resistence to thyroid hormone (Dr.

Lowe) which is why I still have this Fibro. Oddly, the first time I

discovered the reason I have had FMS and CFS all these years is when

someone sent me a link to articles by Dr. Lowe, who says FMS and CFS

are hypothyroidism. That is what encouraged me to start thyroid

medication on my own. And that will be two years ago in May. Dr. Lowe

does use T3 only for FMS, as T4 is useless for this condition. FMS is

my most pressing concern. I want to walk without pain, I want to be

able to pick up clothes or other articles off the floor, I want to be

able to lift my knees onto the bed at night without pain, or get my

socks on in the morning, or pick up a puppy, or, heaven help me,

clean the bathtub! I NEED to try this.

Yes, I know that I have been getting 36 mcg of T3 from my four grains

of Armour, and that is why I figure it's reasonable to start on T3

with maybe 50 mcg., titrating upwards from there.

I was on the site yesterday, but could not find where he says

exactly what the protocol is. I'll go back and check for the online

manual, thanks.

Gail

>

> HI Gail - why would you want to go off the desiccated? Don't you

need

> the T4 as well?

>

> When I was switching between types of thyroid I would decrease one

and

> increase the new one - not changing my overall dose at all - I have

> found that changing doses or meds can be very stressful on the body

so

> its best to be very careful.

>

> I also found that for me, one grain of Armour did not equal 60mcg of

> Thyroxine - it actually equalled the exact amount of its

ingredients -

> 39mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 so when you are equating the doses make

sure

> you are taking enough of the synthetics to compensate.

> For example if you were taking 2 grains of armour this is supposed

to

> equal 120mcg of Thyroxine - well I found that it equalled 78mcg of

> thyroxine and 18 mcg of T3. It is just not interchangeable IMO and

needs

> to be experimented with.

>

> If you were to do the T3 alone I would recommend that you go to Dr

> 's site and read his on-line manual - perhaps if you do this

> before you see your doc you will be armed with more info.

> www.wilsonssyndrome.com

> good luck

> Kerry

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think I have Dr Lowe's book somewhere - is there anything you would

like me to look up in there? I think I have the metabolic balance one,

not he one specifically for FMS

Yes I definitely have resistance as well - I can take so much hormone

and never get any hyper symptoms!

I was only cautioning you about stopping the T4 in case you get other

symptoms back from stopping it - but I agree with you that t3 only is

worth a try - it helped me with a very bad RSI injury that I had for

years - a few weeks on T3 and it has never been as bad since!

On the website if you click on Fixing the Problem then on the

link for 's T3 protocol then on the link for the doctor's manual

- on this page there is a link to a free web version. I actually bought

a copy but it all seems to be in this free version. here is the link in

case :

http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/eManual/

regards,

Kerry

Re: subclinical hypothyroidism

Kerry,

I think I must have peripheral resistence to thyroid hormone (Dr.

Lowe) which is why I still have this Fibro. Oddly, the first time I

discovered the reason I have had FMS and CFS all these years is when

someone sent me a link to articles by Dr. Lowe, who says FMS and CFS

are hypothyroidism. That is what encouraged me to start thyroid

medication on my own. And that will be two years ago in May. Dr. Lowe

does use T3 only for FMS, as T4 is useless for this condition. FMS is

my most pressing concern. I want to walk without pain, I want to be

able to pick up clothes or other articles off the floor, I want to be

able to lift my knees onto the bed at night without pain, or get my

socks on in the morning, or pick up a puppy, or, heaven help me,

clean the bathtub! I NEED to try this.

Yes, I know that I have been getting 36 mcg of T3 from my four grains

of Armour, and that is why I figure it's reasonable to start on T3

with maybe 50 mcg., titrating upwards from there.

I was on the site yesterday, but could not find where he says

exactly what the protocol is. I'll go back and check for the online

manual, thanks.

Gail

>

> HI Gail - why would you want to go off the desiccated? Don't you

need

> the T4 as well?

>

> When I was switching between types of thyroid I would decrease one

and

> increase the new one - not changing my overall dose at all - I have

> found that changing doses or meds can be very stressful on the body

so

> its best to be very careful.

>

> I also found that for me, one grain of Armour did not equal 60mcg of

> Thyroxine - it actually equalled the exact amount of its

ingredients -

> 39mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3 so when you are equating the doses make

sure

> you are taking enough of the synthetics to compensate.

> For example if you were taking 2 grains of armour this is supposed

to

> equal 120mcg of Thyroxine - well I found that it equalled 78mcg of

> thyroxine and 18 mcg of T3. It is just not interchangeable IMO and

needs

> to be experimented with.

>

> If you were to do the T3 alone I would recommend that you go to Dr

> 's site and read his on-line manual - perhaps if you do this

> before you see your doc you will be armed with more info.

> www.wilsonssyndrome.com

> good luck

> Kerry

>

>

>