Re: Jan/Ella weight training-adkins (long)

[Guest guest]

Yep. It's 64 ounces plus 8 ounces for every 25 pounds you want to lose. If you

have to lose 50 pounds, that's 10 glasses (8-ounce cups, actually). For 100

pounds, that's only 12 cups of water.

janjv1311 <janaina@...> wrote:Great post.

What I meant is, he never recommended the 2 gallons a day most people

on the diet says help with their weight loss. He said to drink when

thirsty, and stood by the 8 glasses a day thing.

I end up drinking 1.5 gallons on workout days anyway, cause I am

thirsty.

Jan

>

> >That is true, Chuck. Ketosis was never shown to be harmful to the

> >liver in any studies, but they hypothesize (is that a real word?

> >second language for me - I am torn between that and " hypothetize "

> >here...) it might be stressful, since patients that already show

> >kidney damage would excrete protein along with ketones. ...

> >

> Ketosis, literally the accumulation of ketones in the blood is not

going

> to be harmful as long as the mechanisms for keeping the pH balanced

are

> working. This includes excretion of nitrogen (protein). However,

other

> conditions can mess up the acid-base balance, which can make

ketosis a

> risk but only combined with these other conditions, diabetes being

the

> main one I can think of. If you have an accumulation of ketones AND

an

> acid condition, that is the ketone acidosis you mentioned that IS

so

> dangerous.

>

> >Atkins doesn't really say to drink a lot of water, although most

> >people on the diet do. ...

> >

> The book he published about a year before he died definitely did

> recommend it, eight glasses a day, minimum. The same

recommendation is

> also on all of the web pages I've look at about the diet. Nitrogen

> excretion by itself can be an irritant to the kidneys if it is not

diluted.

>

> My parents are both Type II diabetics, so insulin resistance may be

part

> of my cholesterol problem.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

Right, cause the dark purple is either from concentrated urine, or

from too much fat eaten at a previous meal. The fatty meal helps,

that is why the Atkins Center says 1h after dinner. At that time, I

always get ketosis. In the morning, never. I've had people in low-

carb sites tell me that means I am not in " real " ketosis since the

morning one is the only one that makes you lose weight. Well,

whatever, my " fake " ketosis got me to lose 111lb, so I don't care. LOL

Jan

> Being in ketosis is like being pregnant...you either are or you

aren't. The degree doesn't matter, and you can have a lot of purple

and very slow weight loss, or very light purple (or none!) and very

good weight loss.

]

[Guest guest]

Hi, Chuck. I think what you're referring to isn't " ketosis, "

but " ketoacidosis, " a completely different animal altogether. In

just about every book written on ketogenic diets and ketosis, they

mention ketoacidosis because it's often confused with ketosis, and

usually because it's spelled similarly. Ketosis is merely the ashes

of burned fat, as most dieticians, doctors, etc. call it. As for

kidney problems in ketosis, etc...the danger to kidneys is a high

amount of protein in the diet, which those with advanced kidney

disease should avoid.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> Maybe my ketostix are not so good then, cause I don't register

> *unless* I sleep all night and don't wake up to drink/pee (a pretty

> rare occurence), then I get a nice deep purple.

Yes, it's true that if you drink less water than your ketostix will

register a darker color, and in fact most Atkids believe that " trace "

is optimum because it shows you're drinking enough water. But I will

say this, when I was having 3hr/day dance practices, going to the gym

4 days a week, and teaching dance 3 days a week...I wouldn't usually

show any signs on the ketostix of being in ketosis. If you exercise

a lot then your body will use ketones as well as fat for energy.

> If every 3h I am up

> looking for water and peeing, forget it, not even trace. I register

> if I do the Atkins center recommended method, of testing in the

> evenings, when you've had fatty meals and that is what helps you

> register. But NOT in an empty stomach if I don't have

> more " concentrated " urine. But I KNOW I am in ketosis by the nasty

> stench from my breath and from the urine.

LOL I hear you! ) Yes, eating more fat does help register on the

stix, but that's because dietary fat while in ketosis allows your

body to burn stored fat for energy. Oh, and I've been told that it's

extremely easy to contaminate a whole container of ketostix, and they

should be replaced at least every 1 to 2 months for accuracy.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> He couldn't even talk, or stand up when I dragged him to the

> hospital. And it was very fast - at midnight he was normal.

Yeah, sounds familiar. I'm glad it came out okay, though, for you

guys! My aunt almost acted " drunk " when she was crashing.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> I am a strong woman only if the carb is the non-trigger kind, and

all

> consumed *before* working out (besides the post-workout shake 3x a

> week). So I have oatmeal, then some sweet potato, then a veggie-

meat

> meal, then hit the gym - so I must be glycogen-depleted by the time

I

> go to bed. That is at around 80g carb.

>

> Jan

Well, glycogen depletion is a weird critter, and the depletion

workout is a strategically timed event, with using weights in circuit

style to deplete the muscles. By the end of the week when someone is

consuming little to no carbs at all they're almost depleted,

providing they've done their workouts and cardio that week. It's a

science, and if you're into it you might want to try Lyle Mc's

book. When you buy his book you get access to the message board

where you can ask him questions, etc. It's pretty cool.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> Being in ketosis is like being pregnant...you either are or you

aren't. The degree doesn't matter, and you can have a lot of purple

and very slow weight loss, or very light purple (or none!) and very

good weight loss.

Yep. That's the general idea. )

Ella

[Guest guest]

Ella,

You wrote:

>Hi, Chuck. I think what you're referring to isn't " ketosis, "

>but " ketoacidosis, " a completely different animal altogether. ...

>

Actually, I was discussing them both. Ketosis is a contraction of ketone

lypolysis, as you stated, the accumulation of ketone bodies in the blood

due to the chemical break down of fatty acids. Ketone acidosis means an

accumulation of the very same ketone bodies but accompanied by low pH of

the serum. The relation between the two is more than just a similarity

of spelling. Ketosis can actually turn into ketone acidosis if another

mechanism is working that upsets the acid-base balance and leaves the

ammonia components in the blood. For most healthy dieters, this is

fortunately not likely. In low carb diets, the acidic component of the

ketone bodies is excreted to maintain the pH balance. OTOH, true

starvation, various nutritional deficiencies, and diabetes can produce

ketone acidosis.

Chuck

> In

>just about every book written on ketogenic diets and ketosis, they

>mention ketoacidosis because it's often confused with ketosis, and

>usually because it's spelled similarly. Ketosis is merely the ashes

>of burned fat, as most dieticians, doctors, etc. call it. As for

>kidney problems in ketosis, etc...the danger to kidneys is a high

>amount of protein in the diet, which those with advanced kidney

>disease should avoid.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know the stix are still good, since they do work in the evenings. I

just think that between exercise and the 1.5 gallons, unless it is

exactly 1h after food, I am not gonna register. I just don't bother

with the whole peeing in a cup thing anymore. I find if I don't

stress about this weight thing, it happens better. I like to just

take my measurements once a month and forget about the whole ketosis

or not, weight issues. It is enough of a pain to measure all my food,

ha ha.

I am thinking of doing another round of higher-carb (non-keto)

dieting in a few weeks. I've been in ketosis for too long now (since

July), I find a change helps it to keep working.

Jan

> > Maybe my ketostix are not so good then, cause I don't register

> > *unless* I sleep all night and don't wake up to drink/pee (a

pretty

> > rare occurence), then I get a nice deep purple.

>

> Yes, it's true that if you drink less water than your ketostix will

> register a darker color, and in fact most Atkids believe

that " trace "

> is optimum because it shows you're drinking enough water. But I

will

> say this, when I was having 3hr/day dance practices, going to the

gym

> 4 days a week, and teaching dance 3 days a week...I wouldn't

usually

> show any signs on the ketostix of being in ketosis. If you

exercise

> a lot then your body will use ketones as well as fat for energy.

>

> > If every 3h I am up

> > looking for water and peeing, forget it, not even trace. I

register

> > if I do the Atkins center recommended method, of testing in the

> > evenings, when you've had fatty meals and that is what helps you

> > register. But NOT in an empty stomach if I don't have

> > more " concentrated " urine. But I KNOW I am in ketosis by the

nasty

> > stench from my breath and from the urine.

>

> LOL I hear you! ) Yes, eating more fat does help register on the

> stix, but that's because dietary fat while in ketosis allows your

> body to burn stored fat for energy. Oh, and I've been told that

it's

> extremely easy to contaminate a whole container of ketostix, and

they

> should be replaced at least every 1 to 2 months for accuracy.

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

I haven't read his book, but did read several of his articles. But I

HATE circuits with a passion, so I'd never do the CKD. I tried it and

lasted exactly one depletion workout. The TKD works for me though.

Jan

> Well, glycogen depletion is a weird critter, and the depletion

> workout is a strategically timed event, with using weights in

circuit

> style to deplete the muscles. By the end of the week when someone

is

> consuming little to no carbs at all they're almost depleted,

> providing they've done their workouts and cardio that week. It's a

> science, and if you're into it you might want to try Lyle

Mc's

> book. When you buy his book you get access to the message board

> where you can ask him questions, etc. It's pretty cool.

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

The relation between the two is more than just a similarity

> of spelling. Ketosis can actually turn into ketone acidosis if

another

> mechanism is working that upsets the acid-base balance and leaves

the

> ammonia components in the blood. For most healthy dieters, this is

> fortunately not likely. In low carb diets, the acidic component of

the

> ketone bodies is excreted to maintain the pH balance. OTOH, true

> starvation, various nutritional deficiencies, and diabetes can

produce

> ketone acidosis.

>

> Chuck

Right, but that's also like saying a cough and pneumonia are the same

thing.... lol I understand what you're saying, but the relationship

between ketosis and ketoacidosis is so far removed that it's hardly

worth mentioning to the average dieter, which 99% of people are. And

yes, that was my point, that ketoacidosis is a risk diebetics have to

address. But a non-diabetic would have to be in extreme

circumstances to even have to worry about it. Oddly enough, ketosis

occurs when carbs are lowered anywhere below 100g per day. This wont

show on a test strip, but other tests show that the person is in fact

in a state of ketosis. And to date there's not been a single case of

ketoacidosis resulting from a low carb diet in a normal, average,

healthy individual. And low carb dieting, including Atkins, is being

used to treat diabetes now.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> I know the stix are still good, since they do work in the evenings.

Exactly. Usually when the sticks go bad they don't all react the

same, and you're getting the same thing on a regular basis, so I'm

sure they're okay.

> I

> just think that between exercise and the 1.5 gallons, unless it is

> exactly 1h after food, I am not gonna register.

Definitely! I used to register only at " neutral " after working out,

which I did a LOT, and I drank 128oz of water a day.

> I just don't bother

> with the whole peeing in a cup thing anymore. I find if I don't

> stress about this weight thing, it happens better.

Most of us just use the " mid-stream " method.

> I like to just

> take my measurements once a month and forget about the whole

ketosis

> or not, weight issues. It is enough of a pain to measure all my

food,

> ha ha.

I hear ya! I got to where I didn't focus on ketosis after a while,

especially when it didn't tell me squat about what was going on fat

loss-wise. I could be in ketosis and register " moderate " and not

lose an ounce, so for me it's only worth checking for the first

month. Most use them to determine what their CCL is, but that's a

lot of work if you ask me. lol

>

> I am thinking of doing another round of higher-carb (non-keto)

> dieting in a few weeks. I've been in ketosis for too long now

(since

> July), I find a change helps it to keep working.

>

> Jan

Yep. )

Ella

[Guest guest]

> I haven't read his book, but did read several of his articles. But

I

> HATE circuits with a passion, so I'd never do the CKD. I tried it

and

> lasted exactly one depletion workout. The TKD works for me though.

>

> Jan

See, I can't do a TKD because I'd NEVER be able to stop with that one

pre-workout meal! lol And I usually hate circuit, too, but I'm

talking circuit as in interval training where there's no rest between

one set and the next. After doing BFL style workouts and eating I

switched to another method, hired a personal trainer, and felt for

the first time that there is DEFINITELY a huge difference between one

style of workout and the next, and I'm here to say that BFL was

easier than the program I was put on! lol It totally floored me, to

tell you the truth. But I didn't last long because I was getting

weaker and weaker with every workout and leaving the gym pale and

sickly looking. But it was a kick-butt workout, nonetheless!

Ella

[Guest guest]

I know 80g is my CCLM (that is not counting the PWO shake - 80 + the

20g I have 3x a week), although I still lose body fat on that if I

watch the calories. Anything under is still on the CCL.

Yeah, I am lucky.

[Guest guest]

Problem is, my gym is too busy - you can't do a fast circuit like

that. And the slow circuit is booooring.

My gym includes free trainers, and there is one that is pretty good,

he understands that yes, I WANNA work with heavy weights. LOL

Jan

> See, I can't do a TKD because I'd NEVER be able to stop with that

one

> pre-workout meal! lol And I usually hate circuit, too, but I'm

> talking circuit as in interval training where there's no rest

between

> one set and the next. After doing BFL style workouts and eating I

> switched to another method, hired a personal trainer, and felt for

> the first time that there is DEFINITELY a huge difference between

one

> style of workout and the next, and I'm here to say that BFL was

> easier than the program I was put on! lol It totally floored me,

to

> tell you the truth. But I didn't last long because I was getting

> weaker and weaker with every workout and leaving the gym pale and

> sickly looking. But it was a kick-butt workout, nonetheless!

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

)~::::: There's a raspberry for ya! lol Lucky girl!

Ella

> I know 80g is my CCLM (that is not counting the PWO shake - 80 +

the

> 20g I have 3x a week), although I still lose body fat on that if I

> watch the calories. Anything under is still on the CCL.

>

> Yeah, I am lucky.

[Guest guest]

> Problem is, my gym is too busy - you can't do a fast circuit like

> that. And the slow circuit is booooring.

>

> My gym includes free trainers, and there is one that is pretty

good,

> he understands that yes, I WANNA work with heavy weights. LOL

>

> Jan

I've never had much luck with the free trainers. Ever, and I've

tried several of them, even in different states where we lived. When

I finally hired my first certified trainer it was awesome, and I was

SORE the next day. I was lifting heavy, and heavy enough for the

guys in the gym to make comments and ask questions. But I didn't

realize that the kind of circuit my trainer put me on would totally

blow me away. And my gym was too busy as well. You know, that's a

growing trend these days, how gyms don't put a limit on the number of

people who can join. The gym fills to the point where the wait to

get on a cardio machine could be an hour or two. No way, not for me

anymore. I have a set of free weights, and I'm getting a bench and

squat rack so I can work out at home. I have all of The Firm DVD's so

that will take care of cardio or just to vary the workouts. I'm done

paying those gym fees! lol

Ella

[Guest guest]

Mmmm raspberries... nah, I only eat strawberries and grapefruit,

raspberries are too expensive here.

Jan

> > I know 80g is my CCLM (that is not counting the PWO shake - 80 +

> the

> > 20g I have 3x a week), although I still lose body fat on that if

I

> > watch the calories. Anything under is still on the CCL.

> >

> > Yeah, I am lucky.

[Guest guest]

I don't like or have the space to work out at home, but I try to lift

in the afternoon, when it is just me and the teenage boys, ha ha.

They are horribly rude and tend to smell, but it beats fighting the

evening crowd.

I can always find one or two good trainers at the gyms I go to, so I

try to go when they are there when I want a new routine. No girls -

I've only found 2 who knew their stuff so far. Well that is unfair -

the female trainers do know how to get to be a tiny twig of a person,

it is just that I am not going for that look.

Jan

> I've never had much luck with the free trainers. Ever, and I've

> tried several of them, even in different states where we lived.

When

> I finally hired my first certified trainer it was awesome, and I

was

> SORE the next day. I was lifting heavy, and heavy enough for the

> guys in the gym to make comments and ask questions. But I didn't

> realize that the kind of circuit my trainer put me on would totally

> blow me away. And my gym was too busy as well. You know, that's a

> growing trend these days, how gyms don't put a limit on the number

of

> people who can join. The gym fills to the point where the wait to

> get on a cardio machine could be an hour or two. No way, not for

me

> anymore. I have a set of free weights, and I'm getting a bench and

> squat rack so I can work out at home. I have all of The Firm DVD's

so

> that will take care of cardio or just to vary the workouts. I'm

done

> paying those gym fees! lol

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

> Mmmm raspberries... nah, I only eat strawberries and grapefruit,

> raspberries are too expensive here.

>

> Jan

Raspberries are too expensive everywhere. (

Ella

[Guest guest]

Well that is unfair -

> the female trainers do know how to get to be a tiny twig of a

person,

> it is just that I am not going for that look.

>

> Jan

Luckily I've never met a female trainer who liked the twiggy look.

But then again, I always hired the ones over 30, and closer to my

age, because they've been there, done that and understand about the

issues and problems that come along. I don't do twiggy anyway, and

besides...my body wasn't cut out to be twiggy. It's a blessing

sometimes, but most often a curse. lol

Ella

[Guest guest]

In the city where I used to live until February, they were cheaper

than strawberries. And blackberries were the cheapest of all in the

market. Not to mention, in my my walking route every morning there

were several wild blackberry trees. I'd take a plastic bag with me

and come home with fresh blackberries to throw in my morning oatmeal.

Jan

> Raspberries are too expensive everywhere. (

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

Women here are really small. And since trainers are active, they are

also usually really small. Think " Shape " model size, not " Muscle and

Fitness Hers " size...

I wasn't meant to be a twig either, and that is why I don't value the

advice of a person who works out for a living and doesn't even look

like she lifts weights. I imagine she is probably just naturally thin

and never had to struggle with diet or exercise in her life.

Jan

> Luckily I've never met a female trainer who liked the twiggy look.

> But then again, I always hired the ones over 30, and closer to my

> age, because they've been there, done that and understand about the

> issues and problems that come along. I don't do twiggy anyway, and

> besides...my body wasn't cut out to be twiggy. It's a blessing

> sometimes, but most often a curse. lol

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

Here they are tiny - think " Shape " model sized.

Mostly, they are used to working with women who wanna look like them,

so they give " lots of cardio, lift the pink weights " advice. Thanks,

but no thanks. I want nothing to do with female trainers for that

reason.

Jan

> Luckily I've never met a female trainer who liked the twiggy look.

> But then again, I always hired the ones over 30, and closer to my

> age, because they've been there, done that and understand about the

> issues and problems that come along. I don't do twiggy anyway, and

> besides...my body wasn't cut out to be twiggy. It's a blessing

> sometimes, but most often a curse. lol

>

> Ella