Re: Jan/Ella weight training-adkins (long)

[Guest guest]

Fabulous post, Ella.

The medical establishment is usually AGAINST Atkins for no good

reason, there are no real studies that show it is harmful in any way.

The only valid study showed that a low-cal, medium-carb diet worked

just as well, but there is nothing to show it is dangerous. Just like

doctors keep saying Cytomel or Armour are bad for you when there is

no evidence of that (this new study showed it to be *not better* than

Synthroid alone, there is no evidence it is worse).

That said, low-carbing is a lifestyle that is definitely not for

everyone. Some people would be miserable doing it, so there is no

point in trying it. Some like me, on the other hand, love it.

Jan

>

> > Ella, just a word of caution...be careful about

> > starting Atkins without talking to your

> > doctor/dietician or nutritionist.

>

> Hi, Sheila: )

>

> I went on Atkins the first time a couple of years ago. I did

pretty

> well, losing about 35lbs in about 5 mos. I only got the carb

> withdrawal/detox symptoms in the very beginning, as expected, then

it

> went away and I felt really good. The second time I tried Atkins

was

> before I realized I was hypothyroid. You see, while on Atkins I

> stopped losing weight and no matter what I did I couldn't lose not

> another inch or pound. I went off the diet because I was having

> symptoms, symptoms that I blamed on the diet, but were in fact

> hypothyroidism rearing its ugly head.

>

> I stopped the diet, but the symptoms persisted. Since I was

> bodybuilding somewhat, dancing, teaching dance, etc., I knew (know)

a

> lot about diet, nutrition, exercise, etc., so I began to think my

> leptin levels (made by the liver) were depleted. After all,

depleted

> leptin levels will make a person very fatigued, lethargic and will

> ultimately stop weight loss. The thing is, that's corrected by

eating

> one good meal of carbs. Again, nothing I did made my symptoms go

> away, and I began gaining weight instead of losing. Long story

> short, after about a year of struggling with symptoms that made me

> feel like dying, weight gain, etc., I finally conceded that my

> problem could be low thyroid function. But as for blood sugar and

> diabetes...

>

> ...the whole idea behind low carbing is to NOT stimulate insulin,

> which is stimulated by carbohydrates. Insulin is supposed to

> regulate blood sugar, so it stands to reason that the more carbs

you

> eat, the more insulin is produced in response. Just about every

doc

> I know, including the doctors my family members with diabetes have,

> all say that a controlled/low carb diet is the key to keeping

insulin

> at a safe level. Adult onset is basically " insulin resistance, "

> which means the pancreas creates a LOT of insulin, but it's affects

> on blood sugar are blunted. Juvenile onset, however, is the

> opposite, meaning the pancreas just doesn't make the stuff.

>

> I don't speak for anyone else, and I certainly don't mean to sound

> rude...so please don't take what I'm going to say that way, but

most

> people who can't handle Atkins are those who don't follow the rules

> of that eating plan to the " T. " Atkins made me feel bad because I

> didn't follow the rules as well as I did the first time, trying to

> cut calories by eating less and controlling fat (a HUGE no-no for

> Atkins, especially in that first 2 weeks!), and yes..my blood sugar

> fluctuates wildly in the first week or so. But over all, I know

that

> low carbing if done correctly can correct/control a serious

diabetic

> problem. So many out there who were overweight and either diabetic

> or pre-diabetic say that Atkins saved their lives. And sure, some

> people may not be able to ride out that initial detoxification, and

> few are resistant to giving up their caffein and sodas, but for

those

> doctors out there who bash the Atkins diet...even they are starting

> to stand up and take notice. This plan has been around about 28

> years now, and I know how it made me feel the first time, so I'm

> hoping that once I get my meds straightened out I'll have that same

> success again.

>

> But thank you, Sheila, for your concern. You're a kind person who

> really tries to look out for other's. )

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

> That said, low-carbing is a lifestyle that is definitely not for

> everyone. Some people would be miserable doing it, so there is no

> point in trying it. Some like me, on the other hand, love it.

>

> Jan

Thanks, Jan. I don't think there's a " one-size-fits-all " way of

eating, and I don't think there's a " one-size-fits-all " tell-tale

test that shows hypothyroidism in every case. But at least the FDA

is FINALLY getting the picture regarding insulin's role in fat gain

and other potentially fatal diseases and complications.

The one thing I like about low carbing (Atkins or otherwise) is that

it will allow me to use coconut oil, which we all know is beneficial

for the thyroid. And shoot, the way I react to processed carbs these

days, there's no way I can keep eating that stuff. Sure, eventually

I'll add carbs back in, just as Dr. Atkins instructs in his books,

but I'm going to be WAY pickier than ever about those carbs! No more

processed dookie for me! Well, okay, with the exception of some

holiday recipes. ;o)

Ella

[Guest guest]

Right. There are some carbs that don't make me feel bad - beans, for

instance. Unless I am trying to lose weight (like right now), I will

eat them. But most other carbs out there, including most fruit, makes

me feel like crap. The hypoT already makes me deal with fatigue, I

don't need to add hypoglycemia to the mix. Besides, I gotta watch out

for my ever rising blood sugars. I don't wanna start on metformin

unless I have exhausted every other possibility out there.

Jan

>

> > That said, low-carbing is a lifestyle that is definitely not for

> > everyone. Some people would be miserable doing it, so there is no

> > point in trying it. Some like me, on the other hand, love it.

> >

> > Jan

>

> Thanks, Jan. I don't think there's a " one-size-fits-all " way of

> eating, and I don't think there's a " one-size-fits-all " tell-tale

> test that shows hypothyroidism in every case. But at least the FDA

> is FINALLY getting the picture regarding insulin's role in fat gain

> and other potentially fatal diseases and complications.

>

> The one thing I like about low carbing (Atkins or otherwise) is

that

> it will allow me to use coconut oil, which we all know is

beneficial

> for the thyroid. And shoot, the way I react to processed carbs

these

> days, there's no way I can keep eating that stuff. Sure,

eventually

> I'll add carbs back in, just as Dr. Atkins instructs in his books,

> but I'm going to be WAY pickier than ever about those carbs! No

more

> processed dookie for me! Well, okay, with the exception of some

> holiday recipes. ;o)

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

Jan,

You wrote:

>The medical establishment is usually AGAINST Atkins for no good

>reason, there are no real studies that show it is harmful in any way. ...

>

That's changing. In the last two days alone, I have heard of three

doctors locally that have started prescribing it. My own doc is still a

little ambiguous about it, but he goes along with folks that want to try it.

The primary potential harm has to do with ketones destroying the kidneys

if there isn't enough water intake, an effect called " ketosis toxicity. "

That's one reason why the newer versions of the diets include a lot more

water. In fact, if you drink enough water, your ketones should not be

concentrated enough to even register on the keto-sticks. You just flush

them out. With lots of water, you effectively avoid the hazards of

ketosis, while enjoying the benefits.

The other hazard that has been documented is that a sizable fraction of

the people that stay on the diet for an extended period end up with

elevated cholesterol and especially elevated LDLs, the bad stuff. I am

evidently in that select group. Those folks need to avoid saturated

fats, which makes a high fat low carb diet tricky to manage.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

That is true, Chuck. Ketosis was never shown to be harmful to the

liver in any studies, but they hypothesize (is that a real word?

second language for me - I am torn between that and " hypothetize "

here...) it might be stressful, since patients that already show

kidney damage would excrete protein along with ketones.

Atkins doesn't really say to drink a lot of water, although most

people on the diet do. Ketosis makes me *super* thirsty, I drink

tons, and I never register on the ketostix after the first 2 days of

ketosis (from the thirst). I have to figure out if I am still in

ketosis by " other methods " , but they are sort of gross so not

mentioning them here.

Everyone I know had a decrease in cholesterol and LDL levels, but I

imagine some folks must have increases. In low-carbing forums, you

see people that do this diet in a way Dr. A never intended it to be

done - I am talking actually snacking on sticks of butter here. Also,

several people cheat. I imagine if one is cheating 2x a month, you

never reach a deep ketosis state, then you add all the grease and you

have a heart attack diet. I believe if done correctly it would lower

cholesterol. My grandpa started it in the 70s after a heart attack

and in 3 months his cholesterol went from 290 to 180, and it stayed

there until he died 17 years later. But he didn't cheat. He did eat

mostly saturated fats though, it was pork fat all the time, but he

was never a fan of carbs anyway, so it became second nature to him.

Jan

>

> >The medical establishment is usually AGAINST Atkins for no good

> >reason, there are no real studies that show it is harmful in any

way. ...

> >

>

> That's changing. In the last two days alone, I have heard of three

> doctors locally that have started prescribing it. My own doc is

still a

> little ambiguous about it, but he goes along with folks that want

to try it.

>

> The primary potential harm has to do with ketones destroying the

kidneys

> if there isn't enough water intake, an effect called " ketosis

toxicity. "

> That's one reason why the newer versions of the diets include a lot

more

> water. In fact, if you drink enough water, your ketones should not

be

> concentrated enough to even register on the keto-sticks. You just

flush

> them out. With lots of water, you effectively avoid the hazards of

> ketosis, while enjoying the benefits.

>

> The other hazard that has been documented is that a sizable

fraction of

> the people that stay on the diet for an extended period end up with

> elevated cholesterol and especially elevated LDLs, the bad stuff. I

am

> evidently in that select group. Those folks need to avoid saturated

> fats, which makes a high fat low carb diet tricky to manage.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

It's the same for me. I really can't tolerate carbs at all.

janjv1311 <janaina@...> wrote:Right. There are some carbs that don't

make me feel bad - beans, for

instance. Unless I am trying to lose weight (like right now), I will

eat them. But most other carbs out there, including most fruit, makes

me feel like crap. The hypoT already makes me deal with fatigue, I

don't need to add hypoglycemia to the mix. Besides, I gotta watch out

for my ever rising blood sugars. I don't wanna start on metformin

unless I have exhausted every other possibility out there.

Jan

>

> > That said, low-carbing is a lifestyle that is definitely not for

> > everyone. Some people would be miserable doing it, so there is no

> > point in trying it. Some like me, on the other hand, love it.

> >

> > Jan

>

> Thanks, Jan. I don't think there's a " one-size-fits-all " way of

> eating, and I don't think there's a " one-size-fits-all " tell-tale

> test that shows hypothyroidism in every case. But at least the FDA

> is FINALLY getting the picture regarding insulin's role in fat gain

> and other potentially fatal diseases and complications.

>

> The one thing I like about low carbing (Atkins or otherwise) is

that

> it will allow me to use coconut oil, which we all know is

beneficial

> for the thyroid. And shoot, the way I react to processed carbs

these

> days, there's no way I can keep eating that stuff. Sure,

eventually

> I'll add carbs back in, just as Dr. Atkins instructs in his books,

> but I'm going to be WAY pickier than ever about those carbs! No

more

> processed dookie for me! Well, okay, with the exception of some

> holiday recipes. ;o)

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

I never could either, until I got cortef.

Gracia

> It's the same for me. I really can't tolerate carbs at all.

>

[Guest guest]

Nope. If you had, you wouldn't have healed. You'd have gone into

ketoacidosis from not making enough insulin, even while on Atkins,

and then into a coma. Protein also converts into glucose through a

process called glucogenesis. So you'd have formed " bubbles " of gas in

your blood and have been unable to breathe and then gotten

unconscious and then slipped into the coma, from which you'd only

emerge with lots and lots of insulin and careful monitoring.

(In case you are wondering, my husband has been in ketoacidosis and

I've watched it. Didn't go as far as the coma part though, but he

remembers the coma part from the 6x his sister was in one).

Jan

--- In hypothyroidism , Kemal Kalajdzic

> you think I was showing signs of juvenile onset

> diabetes--the autoimmune disorder?

[Guest guest]

They might have sugar of some form in them. Most do. So since you

don't usually eat sugar, the tiny amount of it might affect you,

whereas to a person who eats candy daily, it would do nothing.

Jan

> hi jan. what's weird is the crackers were whole wheat,

> but I felt like i was in slow motion for quite some

> time after eating this. weird because whole bread

> doesn't bother me. maybe my body was just more

> sensitive that day.

> sheila

[Guest guest]

But most other carbs out there, including most fruit, makes

> me feel like crap. The hypoT already makes me deal with fatigue, I

> don't need to add hypoglycemia to the mix. Besides, I gotta watch

out

> for my ever rising blood sugars. I don't wanna start on metformin

> unless I have exhausted every other possibility out there.

>

> Jan

Definitely understand that!

[Guest guest]

In fact, if you drink enough water, your ketones should not be

> concentrated enough to even register on the keto-sticks. You just

flush

> them out. With lots of water, you effectively avoid the hazards of

> ketosis, while enjoying the benefits.

Welllll, not exactly. ) A person can drink in excess of 128gal of

water a day and will still register " trace " on the ketostix. If a

person is taking in a lot higher carbs they may not register the

ketones.

>

> The other hazard that has been documented is that a sizable

fraction of

> the people that stay on the diet for an extended period end up with

> elevated cholesterol and especially elevated LDLs, the bad stuff.>

> Chuck

Now THAT'S odd because every person I ever spoke with who were smart

enough to have their labs done PRIOR to beginning the diet (as Dr.

Atkins instructs, even insists upon in his book) know that their lab

results begin to improve pretty rapidly. It's the presence of TRANS

FATS and high carbs together that create the lethal combination. In

fact, there was something on the news the other day talking about

this, and my to be father-in-law's doctor said that they're finding

now that dietary fat doesn't really contribute much at all to free-

floating cholesterol in the blood, which is the dangerous artery-

clogging and stroke-invoking stuff. He had a mild stroke a few

months back and is watched like a hawk by his doc.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> It's the same for me. I really can't tolerate carbs at all.

>

I know that when I eat low carb I just feel different, better

somehow. Now this doesn't mean I'll be eating meat, salad and fat

forever, as anyone who's read Atkins knows, but the carbs I'll be

choosing later will make more sense, not to mention be more healthful.

Hey, it worked for the caveman, didn't it? lol The human race is

still here, so I guess they were doing something right! )

Ella

[Guest guest]

Ella,

You wrote:

>Now THAT'S odd because every person I ever spoke with who were smart

>enough to have their labs done PRIOR to beginning the diet (as Dr.

>Atkins instructs, even insists upon in his book) know that their lab

>results begin to improve pretty rapidly. It's the presence of TRANS

>FATS and high carbs together that create the lethal combination. ...

>

I did have my blood tested before, during, after, and still doing them

regularly. My cholesterol did improve initially. I lost about 45 pounds

in eight months, so it is hard to say I was cheating. When the loss of

weight stopped, I went back to the strict induction plan, as

recommended. My largest single source of carbs was an occasional handful

of peanuts or cashews. Consequently, I was very surprised to find my

cholesterol creeping up steadily after the initial boon.

There are lots of unchallenged studies in the literature that show a

significant correlation between _long term_ consumption of saturated fat

and serum cholesterol. That is one source for the continuing skepticism

over Atkins. The longitudinal studies lasting more than a year of Atkins

have only just begun. I quite agree with you that trans fats are even

worse, but I was avoiding those from the start. Now, I'm avoiding both

hydrogenated and saturated types. There is more to this problem than

just diet, and the thyroid may be playing a critical role.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

> Hi Ella,

>

> sounds like you know your body pretty well. It's good

> that you were able to figure out you had a thyroid

> problem.

Well, only with the help of friends did I figure it out. )

>

> No, Ella, you did not sound rude at all...you gave me

> something to think about.

I'm glad I didn't come across rude, because that certainly wasn't my

aim.

>

> when I tried Adkin's the first time, I was a teen. you

> said maybe people who can't handle it are following

> the diet exactly the way it's supposed to be done.

>

> I thought about it...trying to remember that far back.

> I do remember that I did NOT increase the carbs the

> way the diet recommended. I continued on the diet but

> never increased my carbs.

Thing is about increasing the carbs and moving onto OWL is that you

really can continue with the 20g/day if you have a lot of weight to

lose. Dr. Atkins explains all that in his books. Most of the

mistakes people make are trying to cut calories too much and trying

to eat as little fat as possible. ) Most teenage girls do both to

try and manage their weight.

>

> i forgot all about that. do you or anyone else know if

> this could be the reason it messed up my sugar levels

> so bad?

It's my understanding, coming from the relatives of mine who are

diabetic, is that the damage may have been done long before you

started low carbing.

> It just doesn't make sense that my blood work was

> showing signs of diabetes. If I was avoiding all

> carbs, how could my sugar be high? anyone have any

> idea?

First thing, when your pancreas is damaged, it really depends on the

severity of the damage wether or not you can lower your BS with diet

alone. And, correcting the problem doesn't happen over night. See,

adult onset (type II) diabetes is really an insulin-resistance

problem, unlike type I which is the lack of insulin. It's a lot more

complex than that, but that's the basic idea. It may take someone a

long time to lower their BS with diet alone, and some have to have

medication. There are those who have gone OFF meds completely

because they corrected the problem with diet and exercise, the latter

being just as important to a diabetic as exercise is.

>

> you think I was showing signs of juvenile onset

> diabetes--the autoimmune disorder?

My fiance's nephew was born with diabetes. It's not something that

usually " sneaks up " on one, and the signs, symptoms and often

complications are there from the get-go.

>

> I asked my parents about all this, but they don't even

> remember me doing adkins... take care,sheila

Juvenile onset is not something that goes away, and every meal, every

mouthful of food, every carb that's taken in, etc. has to be

controlled. It's an ongoing, 24/7 ordeal for life. Trust me. If

you had type I...you're parents would've been the first to know.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> what's " processed dookie? "

>

> I agree with you ella...there is no " one-size-fits-all

> diet for us. sheila

LOL, Sheila, you crack me up! ) processed, meaning processed

foods, and dookie meaning processed foods are...well, um...doodoo

(aka dookie, crap, etc.).

Ella

[Guest guest]

> hi Jan,

>

> Beans don't bother me at all; in fact, I feel great

> after eating them. crackers drag me down. sheila

Same here!

Ella

[Guest guest]

> (In case you are wondering, my husband has been in ketoacidosis and

> I've watched it. Didn't go as far as the coma part though, but he

> remembers the coma part from the 6x his sister was in one).

>

> Jan

Wow, Jan! How awful for your husband AND you! I've seen my aunt

before she died come awful close, when she didn't watch her diet and

didn't take her levels. She would sweat, talk strange, and act like

she was literally slipping out of reality. Pretty scary.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> Oh, I don't eat white/high GI stuff at all, but I find there are

> differences even among foods with the same GI.

Exactly! I agree! It's like when you learn your " trigger foods "

doing Atkins. Some things just affect people differently. For me,

while low carbing...cheese does it. I literally get hungier and

start craving because of cheese.

>But I still stop carb after 4pm. Otherwise at 3am I wake up

> shaking from hypoglycemia sometimes, at the very least I wake up

> feeling " hungover " from the carb.

>

> Jan

I couldn't do that..I'm a complete wuss (unless low carbing

strictly). But man oh man do I pay when I eat carbs, especially

sweet, processed carbs, the night before! I wake up with " morning

sickness " that feels EXACTLY like it did when I was pregnant, and in

pregnancy...it's the ole blood sugar acting up, too.

Ella

[Guest guest]

> hi jan. what's weird is the crackers were whole wheat,

> but I felt like i was in slow motion for quite some

> time after eating this. weird because whole bread

> doesn't bother me. maybe my body was just more

> sensitive that day.

> sheila

Ahh... beware of the " whole wheat " claim! There's products out there

that are supposedly " whole wheat, " but contain other refined

ingredients..including flour. lol THE best bread to buy if you're

NOT doing Atkins is Ezekiel bread, found in the cooler section of the

grocery store. It's hard to explain, but it's about as " whole " as

one can get without grazing in a wheat field. lol I don't know if

they make crackers or not, though.

Ella

[Guest guest]

Jan,

You wrote:

>That is true, Chuck. Ketosis was never shown to be harmful to the

>liver in any studies, but they hypothesize (is that a real word?

>second language for me - I am torn between that and " hypothetize "

>here...) it might be stressful, since patients that already show

>kidney damage would excrete protein along with ketones. ...

>

Ketosis, literally the accumulation of ketones in the blood is not going

to be harmful as long as the mechanisms for keeping the pH balanced are

working. This includes excretion of nitrogen (protein). However, other

conditions can mess up the acid-base balance, which can make ketosis a

risk but only combined with these other conditions, diabetes being the

main one I can think of. If you have an accumulation of ketones AND an

acid condition, that is the ketone acidosis you mentioned that IS so

dangerous.

>Atkins doesn't really say to drink a lot of water, although most

>people on the diet do. ...

>

The book he published about a year before he died definitely did

recommend it, eight glasses a day, minimum. The same recommendation is

also on all of the web pages I've look at about the diet. Nitrogen

excretion by itself can be an irritant to the kidneys if it is not diluted.

My parents are both Type II diabetics, so insulin resistance may be part

of my cholesterol problem.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

>Welllll, not exactly. ) A person can drink in excess of 128gal of

> water a day and will still register " trace " on the ketostix. If a

> person is taking in a lot higher carbs they may not register the

> ketones.

>

Maybe my ketostix are not so good then, cause I don't register

*unless* I sleep all night and don't wake up to drink/pee (a pretty

rare occurence), then I get a nice deep purple. If every 3h I am up

looking for water and peeing, forget it, not even trace. I register

if I do the Atkins center recommended method, of testing in the

evenings, when you've had fatty meals and that is what helps you

register. But NOT in an empty stomach if I don't have

more " concentrated " urine. But I KNOW I am in ketosis by the nasty

stench from my breath and from the urine.

> Now THAT'S odd because every person I ever spoke with who were

smart

> enough to have their labs done PRIOR to beginning the diet (as Dr.

> Atkins instructs, even insists upon in his book) know that their

lab

> results begin to improve pretty rapidly. It's the presence of

TRANS

> FATS and high carbs together that create the lethal combination.

In

> fact, there was something on the news the other day talking about

> this, and my to be father-in-law's doctor said that they're finding

> now that dietary fat doesn't really contribute much at all to free-

> floating cholesterol in the blood, which is the dangerous artery-

> clogging and stroke-invoking stuff. He had a mild stroke a few

> months back and is watched like a hawk by his doc.

Right, that is what I see as well.

Jan

[Guest guest]

> maybe...i didn't check the label. some drug reps

> brought in lunch...there was hardly anything I could

> eat and I was starved...forgot to bring money with me.

> I brought in my snacks...still hungry. i couldn't eat

> anything else they brought. i should've checked the

> label. thanks. sheila

Yeah, hidden carbs are a hidden disaster in LC dieting. Never, ever,

ever trust a label!

Ella

[Guest guest]

He couldn't even talk, or stand up when I dragged him to the

hospital. And it was very fast - at midnight he was normal. At 6am,

he was like that. He was limp and taking shallow breaths - sounded

like an ashmatic. Thank heavens I am into weight training, or I

wouldn't have been able to literally drag him to and from the cab, as

he is considerably bigger and heavier than me.

I am also glad it was my cousin's shift when we arrived at the ER.

She took an extra shift to be there and ensure he had the best care.

Jan

> > (In case you are wondering, my husband has been in ketoacidosis

and

> > I've watched it. Didn't go as far as the coma part though, but he

> > remembers the coma part from the 6x his sister was in one).

> >

> > Jan

>

> Wow, Jan! How awful for your husband AND you! I've seen my aunt

> before she died come awful close, when she didn't watch her diet

and

> didn't take her levels. She would sweat, talk strange, and act

like

> she was literally slipping out of reality. Pretty scary.

>

> Ella

[Guest guest]

I am a strong woman only if the carb is the non-trigger kind, and all

consumed *before* working out (besides the post-workout shake 3x a

week). So I have oatmeal, then some sweet potato, then a veggie-meat

meal, then hit the gym - so I must be glycogen-depleted by the time I

go to bed. That is at around 80g carb.

Jan

> I couldn't do that..I'm a complete wuss (unless low carbing

> strictly). But man oh man do I pay when I eat carbs, especially

> sweet, processed carbs, the night before! I wake up with " morning

> sickness " that feels EXACTLY like it did when I was pregnant, and

in

> pregnancy...it's the ole blood sugar acting up, too.

>

[Guest guest]

Great post.

What I meant is, he never recommended the 2 gallons a day most people

on the diet says help with their weight loss. He said to drink when

thirsty, and stood by the 8 glasses a day thing.

I end up drinking 1.5 gallons on workout days anyway, cause I am

thirsty.

Jan

>

> >That is true, Chuck. Ketosis was never shown to be harmful to the

> >liver in any studies, but they hypothesize (is that a real word?

> >second language for me - I am torn between that and " hypothetize "

> >here...) it might be stressful, since patients that already show

> >kidney damage would excrete protein along with ketones. ...

> >

> Ketosis, literally the accumulation of ketones in the blood is not

going

> to be harmful as long as the mechanisms for keeping the pH balanced

are

> working. This includes excretion of nitrogen (protein). However,

other

> conditions can mess up the acid-base balance, which can make

ketosis a

> risk but only combined with these other conditions, diabetes being

the

> main one I can think of. If you have an accumulation of ketones AND

an

> acid condition, that is the ketone acidosis you mentioned that IS

so

> dangerous.

>

> >Atkins doesn't really say to drink a lot of water, although most

> >people on the diet do. ...

> >

> The book he published about a year before he died definitely did

> recommend it, eight glasses a day, minimum. The same

recommendation is

> also on all of the web pages I've look at about the diet. Nitrogen

> excretion by itself can be an irritant to the kidneys if it is not

diluted.

>

> My parents are both Type II diabetics, so insulin resistance may be

part

> of my cholesterol problem.

>

> Chuck