prayer

August 19, 1999

Hi everyone:

My sister sent this prayer to me last night. I thought I'd pass it on for

those in need.

Regards to all:

Kathy (AIH)

Seattle area

August 19, 1999

I keeping that one in my favorites.

Sue AIH

Wisconsin

August 20, 1999

Kathy,

I am definetly a believer in this prayer, along with many others.

Thanks,

October 27, 1999

In a message dated 10/15/99 1:02:41 AM Central Daylight Time, Bunyluv99

writes:

<< <

>Let only good thoughts motivate your day.

> Quiet all others.

>

> I said a prayer for you just now...

>

>When you receive this, say a prayer. That's all you have to do.

>There is nothing attached. This is powerful. Just send this to four

>people and let me know what happens on the fourth day. Do not break this,

>please.

>

>Prayer is one of the best free gifts we receive. There is no cost

>but a lot of rewards. Let's continue praying for one another.

>

>May today there be peace within. May you trust God that you are

>exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite

>possibilities that are born of faith. May you use those gifts that you

have

>

>received, and pass on the love that has been given to you.

>May you be content knowing you are a child of God. Let His presence

>settle into your bones, and allow your soul the freedom to sing,

>dance, and to bask in the sun. It is there for each and every one of you.

>

>>

In a message dated 10/9/99 11:55:37 AM Central Daylight Time,

<<

>Let only good thoughts motivate your day.

> Quiet all others.

>

> I said a prayer for you just now...

>

>When you receive this, say a prayer. That's all you have to do.

>There is nothing attached. This is powerful. Just send this to four

>people and let me know what happens on the fourth day. Do not break this,

>please.

>

>Prayer is one of the best free gifts we receive. There is no cost

>but a lot of rewards. Let's continue praying for one another.

>

>May today there be peace within. May you trust God that you are

>exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite

>possibilities that are born of faith. May you use those gifts that you

have

>

>received, and pass on the love that has been given to you.

>May you be content knowing you are a child of God. Let His presence

>settle into your bones, and allow your soul the freedom to sing,

>dance, and to bask in the sun. It is there for each and every one of you.

>

>Let only good thoughts motivate your day.

> Quiet all others.

>

> I said a prayer for you just now...

>

>When you receive this, say a prayer. That's all you have to do.

>There is nothing attached. This is powerful. Just send this to four

>people and let me know what happens on the fourth day. Do not break this,

>please.

>

>Prayer is one of the best free gifts we receive. There is no cost

>but a lot of rewards. Let's continue praying for one another.

>

>May today there be peace within. May you trust God that you are

>exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite

>possibilities that are born of faith. May you use those gifts that you

have

>

>received, and pass on the love that has been given to you.

>May you be content knowing you are a child of God. Let His presence

>settle into your bones, and allow your soul the freedom to sing,

>dance, and to bask in the sun. It is there for each and every one of you.

>

November 23, 1999

In a message dated 99-11-23 16:35:52 EST, you write:

<< Also, Let's give praise reports on what God is doing in answer to your

prayer..There is power in prayer! G.

>>

Dear & All,

What an awesome idea!!!!

Praise report #1 - wonderful folks on rife list have shared with me

instructions on how to make very simple, super-cheap " gadget " to MAKE

COLLIDIAL SILVER AT HOME!

Also, these nice, helpful, scientific folks suggested I read " Vibrational

Medicine " (written by an MD) - talks about all sorts of healing methods --

not specific to lyme, but in general. Well, went to bookstore today with a

$20 in my pocket & walked over to " alternative medicine " section -- what do

you suppose just about JUMPED off the shelf at me? VBG!

I was so shocked & amazed - people in the store must've thought I was crazy!

I ran up & said, " Oooohhh! " in surprise & grabbed it & hugged it & showed it

to my daughter. (LOL - must've looked pretty funny!)

BTW, rife science folks on list suggested this book & provided collodial

silver " machine " & " recipie " in response to my posts regarding lyme disease.

Blessings & velcros,

Chris

November 24, 1999

As always, I forgot to say my prayer at the intended time, I wrote it down, but

forgot to read the note, I did wake up at 1AM.....it hit me and said mine then,

I am so sorry. As always, a day late and a dollar short.

Hugs,

Marta

-----Original Message-----

From: Girard <ranlin@...>

I guess we have got a pretty good start for the prayer....we should really

try and remain faithful to do this everyevening at the same time. Let's give

God a chance and see what He will do....Also, Let's give praise reports on what

God is doing in answer to your prayer..There is power in prayer! G.

April 13, 2000

Michele,

That is absolutely beautiful. I love to read those types of things that make

our mind and spirit stronger. This definatly fits the bill. Thanks for

posting it and bringing us one step closer to finding that secure place in

life, where we are free to be who we were meant and created to be.

Sincerely,

Tami

April 15, 2000

Michele,

What a beautiful prayer!! You are such a delight to share it with us!

Maggie

May 3, 2000

Bonnie my dear, Life Lift means just that, it is a program meant to lift our lives. When I created the program it was to give inspiration and hope as much as breathing instructions. Since I am the creator of Life Lift I will say openly, that this list is meant for anyone who comes for help, support, love or information on anything that will lift their life. This list will always provide as much information on breathing as I can possibly come up with, but it will also include anything else that makes you feel better about your life and who you are as a person. Giving, loving, sharing and caring is as important to this list as breathing. I want everyone to feel that this list is their port in the storm, their place to feel safe and nurtured. I want everyone to feel that if they need a "Lift" when they wake up in the morning, that they always know where to come. If someone is looking for a place that is cut and dry for breathing only, then we can create a list for them too, but this place is for all who want to be the best they can be, and that will only come with being a warm and loving human being.

I am convinced that our list contains the biggest, warmest hearts on Earth. I am certain that it will grow and grow as more people learn that they can come here for nurturing as well as information and support.

I for one am not embarrassed to say, that I am grateful for all the prayers you have offered up for me. Thank you. Be assured you have mine as well.

Love,

Rashelle

Be sure to check out all of the great specials available on my web sites. Save $30 on the Large Body Wrap package. The sale has been extended until May 31stVisit us at http://www.lifelift.com or http://www.angelmagic.com. All other web sites belong to distributors, these are my personal web sites.Join our discussion group at LifeLift-subscribe@...

Prayer

Hi all. I just want everyone to know that while I may not post a message saying I will pray when prayer is requested, that whenever anyone requests prayer, I pray right then. I also pray at other times and have even asked my Church sisters and brothers for their prayers. I thank God that though this may be a list for LL that it is also a place to ask for prayer from those we have learned to call "friend" Please know you have my prayers and love.

{{{HUGS}}} & God bless, Bonnie

**********************************************With God, ALL things are possible.**********************************************

Please use our list bookstore In Association with Amazon.com If you are looking for anything, please click on this link first! Thanks! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/karmasrecommerea

May 3, 2000

Thank you Rashelle ;-) I really DO look at this list as a place to come for support in all areas of my life. How I thank my Susie for telling me Karma was here, causing me to check it, AND LL out. I have met all you dear people who are so important to me. How I thank God for blessing me so! May each and everyone of you have the desires of your heart. You KNOW I believe with all my heart my signature, ALL things truly ARE possible with God! ALL things! God bless you each and every one.

{{{HUGS}}} & God bless, Bonnie

**********************************************With God, ALL things are possible.**********************************************

May 3, 2000

Thank you Bonnie, that means so much to each of us.

Cristi

--- Bonnie <block312@...> wrote:

> Hi all. I just want everyone to know that while I

> may not post a message saying I will pray when

> prayer is requested, that whenever anyone requests

> prayer, I pray right then. I also pray at other

> times and have even asked my Church sisters and

> brothers for their prayers. I thank God that though

> this may be a list for LL that it is also a place to

> ask for prayer from those we have learned to call

> " friend " Please know you have my prayers and love.

> {{{HUGS}}} & God bless, Bonnie

> **********************************************

> With God, ALL things are possible.

> **********************************************

>

__________________________________________________

May 4, 2000

Thank YOU Cristi :-)

{{{HUGS}}} & God bless, Bonnie

**********************************************With God, ALL things are possible.**********************************************

Thank you Bonnie, that means so much to each of us.Cristi

May 7, 2000

Liz,

My prayers are with you and your mom right now. I hope everything turns

out okay!

Michele

October 18, 2000

Guess I didn't make it clear what I meant by his logic (Dr. Barrett's). He

didn't say he believed in 'good' and 'bad' prayer, he said he didn't believe

ANY prayer worked because it could possibly be used against people. That

sounds to me like he refuses to accept any type of prayer because he is

AFRAID of it. When you refuse to accept something out of fear, then no

amount of logic or reasoning is going to change your mind. I even wrote and

asked him what he meant by that statement but didn't get a straight answer.

This is just my observation and experience, take it for what it's worth,

probably about two cents! LOL

Jan Y (#3)

Did you

> happen to see him {Dr. Barrett] (I think it was on CNN News) when

they had him rebut Larry

> Dossey's study on prayer and healing? He said that if prayer

really did

> work, then people could also use it to harm us, so he didn't

believe in it!

> I don't listen to anything Barrett has to say, his logic is scary!

> Jan Y

Well you may think his logic is scary ... but take a deep breath, it

is also absolutely consistent with Larry Dossey's.

Dossey's view of prayer includes that very thing: He wrote " Be

Careful What You Pray For ... You Just Might Get It " (1998)

The reviews? (From amazon.com)

Publishers Weekly

" Dossey's intelligent and passionate work will bring readers closer

to the conviction that their personal interventions into the divine

order are effective sometimes too much so. "

" Brilliant, poetic, scholarly...The imperative is urgent and clear:

we must assume a high level of responsibility for our negative and

hurtful thoughts, wishes, and prayers for one another. "

Joan Borysenko, Ph.D., author of Minding the Body, Mending the Mind

" With penetrating insight and meticulous research, Dr. Dossey revels

the power of prayer to harm as well as to help. This book will

forever change how you think and what you pray for. "

Book Description

The surprising, dramatic truth about prayer how it can harm us...and

how we can protect ourselves.

From the New York Times bestselling author of Healiung Words and

Prayer is Good Medicine comes this compelling exploration of the

negative side of prayer. Larry Dossey, M.D., offers remarkable

evidence that, just as prayer can be used positively to affect health

and healing, it can be also be used for negative and destructive

purposed. With fascinating true stories, case histories, and

scientific analysis, Dossey explores the nature of " toxic " prayer and

teaches us how to protect ourselves from its threatening influence.

------------

You might also be interested in knowing that Dossey's view

of " prayer " is almost completely opposite the Judeo-Christian (and

probably even Muslim) understanding of praying to a

transcendent " god. " The prayer studies he cites include things like

influencig the growth of bacteria and crystals. Hardly the stuff of

healing... but useful trying to shore up belief in telepathy,psychic

and " long distance " healing.

So tossing Dr. Barrett out because of his *metaphysical* belief

system doesn't make sense unless you are on a metaphysical /

spiritual list. These questions are about " alternative " medicine and

its constant companion, quackery.

JAL

October 19, 2000

Whooo,Hooo...

You're GOOD, Kid!!!!

The Amazin' Randi, too.....

Chuck

I used to love anchovies until I realized they were like eating an eyebrow.

Now they just aren't the same.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:07:56 +0100, " Lee " <pglee@...> wrote:

>I think you'll have to take the responsibility for your interpretation of him.

It may say more about your opinion of him, than about him. And we know that this

list is pretty allergic to the " B " name! (Notice, I have not used his name one

single time. I'm just being thoughtful!)........;-))

>

>Check out Randi's site:

>http://www.randi.org/index.html

>

>and

>

>The Skeptic's Dictionary

>http://skepdic.com/

>

>for more information about humanistic thinking. You'll also find naturalistic

explanations for many of the so-called " supernatural " abilities and experiences

alternative practitioners and other people report.

>

> Lee, PT

>Denmark

October 19, 2000

Re:Prayer

> Guess I didn't make it clear what I meant by his logic (Dr. Barrett's). He

> didn't say he believed in 'good' and 'bad' prayer, he said he didn't believe

> ANY prayer worked because it could possibly be used against people. That

> sounds to me like he refuses to accept any type of prayer because he is

> AFRAID of it. When you refuse to accept something out of fear, then no

> amount of logic or reasoning is going to change your mind. I even wrote and

> asked him what he meant by that statement but didn't get a straight answer.

> This is just my observation and experience, take it for what it's worth,

> probably about two cents! LOL

> Jan Y (#3)

>

> Did you

> > happen to see him {Dr. Barrett] (I think it was on CNN News) when

> they had him rebut Larry

> > Dossey's study on prayer and healing? He said that if prayer

> really did

> > work, then people could also use it to harm us, so he didn't

> believe in it!

> > I don't listen to anything Barrett has to say, his logic is scary!

> > Jan Y

>

Hi Jan Y,

Let me take a shot at this, and see if I can make some sense of it.

For the first thing, I didn't see the show. I only have your words for what he

said, so I'll have to base my analysis on that. It's not a good starting point,

since even one word wrong in the quote, can make a big difference.

You originally wrote that he said that:

" if prayer really did work, then people could also

use it to harm us, so he didn't believe in it! "

Above you paraphrase:

" he said he didn't believe ANY prayer worked because

it could possibly be used against people. "

Above you also write your interpretation:

" That sounds to me like he refuses to accept any

type of prayer because he is AFRAID of it. "

It sounds to me like you're placing an unwarranted interpretation on it. He

apparently (I don't know for sure) doesn't believe in prayer of any kind,

period. Neither (a) Jewish, ( Christian, © Muslim nor (d) post-modern,

energy manipulating, alt med hocus-pocus. IOW, he is acting quite consistently

as a modern humanist would do. He therefore probably acknowledges no

supernatural powers, whether it be from gods, angels, devils, or humans

(witchcraft, voodoo, astrology, palm reading, fortune telling, telepathy,

telekinesis, astral projection, meridians, etc.). IOW, he would therefore reject

the metaphysical underpinnings of all alt med practices.

The context of his statement(s) was when discussing something he didn't

personally believe in, with someone (Dossey) who had some very definite beliefs

in a non Judeo-Christian form and use of " prayer " . In such a situation, where he

was rebutting Dossey, it would be natural for him to use irony, sarcasm and even

ridicule. I'm not saying he did, but these would be the typical tools available

to give spice to a debate. Dry facts and discussion aren't very entertaining! I

suspect he was being hypothetical and was using some very thick irony. He's

certainly not afraid of something he doesn't believe in. And he certainly

wouldn't " choose " to not believe in something, because he was afraid of it. That

doesn't make any sense.

I think you'll have to take the responsibility for your interpretation of him.

It may say more about your opinion of him, than about him. And we know that this

list is pretty allergic to the " B " name! (Notice, I have not used his name one

single time. I'm just being thoughtful!)........;-))

Check out Randi's site:

http://www.randi.org/index.html

and

The Skeptic's Dictionary

http://skepdic.com/

for more information about humanistic thinking. You'll also find naturalistic

explanations for many of the so-called " supernatural " abilities and experiences

alternative practitioners and other people report.

Lee, PT

Denmark

The Quack-Files - http://www.geocities.com/healthbase

HF List Intro. - http://www.hcrc.org/wwwboard/messages/197.shtml

E-mail - pglee@...

********************************************************************************\

***

" Mankind's capacity for deception and self-deception knows no limits. "

" Mundus vult decipi " (the world wants to be deceived)

" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. " Reebok ad.

" Manipulation isn't all it's cracked up to be! "

********************************************************************************\

***

> Well you may think his logic is scary ... but take a deep breath, it

> is also absolutely consistent with Larry Dossey's.

>

> Dossey's view of prayer includes that very thing: He wrote " Be

> Careful What You Pray For ... You Just Might Get It " (1998)

>

> The reviews? (From amazon.com)

>

> Publishers Weekly

>

> " Dossey's intelligent and passionate work will bring readers closer

> to the conviction that their personal interventions into the divine

> order are effective sometimes too much so. "

>

> " Brilliant, poetic, scholarly...The imperative is urgent and clear:

> we must assume a high level of responsibility for our negative and

> hurtful thoughts, wishes, and prayers for one another. "

>

> Joan Borysenko, Ph.D., author of Minding the Body, Mending the Mind

>

> " With penetrating insight and meticulous research, Dr. Dossey revels

> the power of prayer to harm as well as to help. This book will

> forever change how you think and what you pray for. "

>

> Book Description

> The surprising, dramatic truth about prayer how it can harm us...and

> how we can protect ourselves.

>

> From the New York Times bestselling author of Healiung Words and

> Prayer is Good Medicine comes this compelling exploration of the

> negative side of prayer. Larry Dossey, M.D., offers remarkable

> evidence that, just as prayer can be used positively to affect health

> and healing, it can be also be used for negative and destructive

> purposed. With fascinating true stories, case histories, and

> scientific analysis, Dossey explores the nature of " toxic " prayer and

> teaches us how to protect ourselves from its threatening influence.

> ------------

>

> You might also be interested in knowing that Dossey's view

> of " prayer " is almost completely opposite the Judeo-Christian (and

> probably even Muslim) understanding of praying to a

> transcendent " god. " The prayer studies he cites include things like

> influencig the growth of bacteria and crystals. Hardly the stuff of

> healing... but useful trying to shore up belief in telepathy,psychic

> and " long distance " healing.

>

> So tossing Dr. Barrett out because of his *metaphysical* belief

> system doesn't make sense unless you are on a metaphysical /

> spiritual list. These questions are about " alternative " medicine and

> its constant companion, quackery.

>

> JAL

>

> Learn more from:

> http://home.online.no/~dusan/

> http://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/

> http://home.online.no/~huldakli/

> http://www..net/

> http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

>

October 19, 2000

I have heard other people say this type of thing, and my impression

of what they're saying is that if prayer is a tool, like a hammer,

and you could use it to build, then you can use it do destroy as

well.

To take that further, if people are healed by prayer, then they must

also be dying by the thousands. The two points being, which do the

proponents of prayer wish to take credit for, and there is no

evidence that people are dropping like flies from curses. Some would

disagree that prayer is a neutral tool, some wouldn't. Some would

agree that curses work as well as prayer. I don't see any evidence

of

either, but this isn't the forum for a long discussion about that.

-- In Dregroups, " Lee " <pglee@m...> wrote:

>

> Hi Jan Y,

>

> Let me take a shot at this, and see if I can make some sense of it.

>

> For the first thing, I didn't see the show. I only have your words

for what he said, so I'll have to base my analysis on that. It's not

a

....

October 20, 2000

>

> Did you

> > happen to see him {Dr. Barrett] (I think it was on CNN News) when

> they had him rebut Larry

> > Dossey's study on prayer and healing? He said that if prayer

> really did

> > work, then people could also use it to harm us, so he didn't

> believe in it!

> > I don't listen to anything Barrett has to say, his logic is scary!

> > Jan Y

>

> Well you may think his logic is scary ... but take a deep breath, it

> is also absolutely consistent with Larry Dossey's.

>

> Dossey's view of prayer includes that very thing: He wrote " Be

> Careful What You Pray For ... You Just Might Get It " (1998)

>

> The reviews? (From amazon.com)

>

> Publishers Weekly

>

> " Dossey's intelligent and passionate work will bring readers closer

> to the conviction that their personal interventions into the divine

> order are effective sometimes too much so. "

>

> " Brilliant, poetic, scholarly...The imperative is urgent and clear:

> we must assume a high level of responsibility for our negative and

> hurtful thoughts, wishes, and prayers for one another. "

>

> Joan Borysenko, Ph.D., author of Minding the Body, Mending the Mind

>

> " With penetrating insight and meticulous research, Dr. Dossey revels

> the power of prayer to harm as well as to help. This book will

> forever change how you think and what you pray for. "

>

> Book Description

> The surprising, dramatic truth about prayer how it can harm us...and

> how we can protect ourselves.

>

> From the New York Times bestselling author of Healiung Words and

> Prayer is Good Medicine comes this compelling exploration of the

> negative side of prayer. Larry Dossey, M.D., offers remarkable

> evidence that, just as prayer can be used positively to affect

health

> and healing, it can be also be used for negative and destructive

> purposed. With fascinating true stories, case histories, and

> scientific analysis, Dossey explores the nature of " toxic " prayer

and

> teaches us how to protect ourselves from its threatening influence.

> ------------

>

> You might also be interested in knowing that Dossey's view

> of " prayer " is almost completely opposite the Judeo-Christian (and

> probably even Muslim) understanding of praying to a

> transcendent " god. " The prayer studies he cites include things like

> influencig the growth of bacteria and crystals. Hardly the stuff of

> healing... but useful trying to shore up belief in telepathy,psychic

> and " long distance " healing.

>

> So tossing Dr. Barrett out because of his *metaphysical* belief

> system doesn't make sense unless you are on a metaphysical /

> spiritual list. These questions are about " alternative " medicine

and

> its constant companion, quackery.

>

> JAL

October 20, 2000

> Guess I didn't make it clear what I meant by his logic (Dr. Barrett's). He

> didn't say he believed in 'good' and 'bad' prayer, he said he didn't

believe

> ANY prayer worked because it could possibly be used against people. That

> sounds to me like he refuses to accept any type of prayer because he is

> AFRAID of it. When you refuse to accept something out of fear, then no

> amount of logic or reasoning is going to change your mind. I even wrote

and

> asked him what he meant by that statement but didn't get a straight answer.

> This is just my observation and experience, take it for what it's worth,

> probably about two cents! LOL

> Jan Y (#3)

Mercy am I #1 or #2?? Anyway I have read other things from Barrett, that has

me comvinced he is an atheist. IMHO, that another strick against him.

Jan D.

October 22, 2000

people can't even get out of bed in the morning without God.

without God people are a scratch on the surface of the earth.

praying is like eating supper.

everybody prays.

>From: " Lee " <pglee@...>

>Reply-Dregroups

><Dregroups>

>Subject: Re: Re:Prayer

>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:07:56 +0100

>

> Re:Prayer

>

> > Guess I didn't make it clear what I meant by his logic (Dr. Barrett's).

>He

> > didn't say he believed in 'good' and 'bad' prayer, he said he didn't

>believe

> > ANY prayer worked because it could possibly be used against people.

>That

> > sounds to me like he refuses to accept any type of prayer because he is

> > AFRAID of it. When you refuse to accept something out of fear, then no

> > amount of logic or reasoning is going to change your mind. I even wrote

>and

> > asked him what he meant by that statement but didn't get a straight

>answer.

> > This is just my observation and experience, take it for what it's worth,

> > probably about two cents! LOL

> > Jan Y (#3)

> >

> > Did you

> > > happen to see him {Dr. Barrett] (I think it was on CNN News) when

> > they had him rebut Larry

> > > Dossey's study on prayer and healing? He said that if prayer

> > really did

> > > work, then people could also use it to harm us, so he didn't

> > believe in it!

> > > I don't listen to anything Barrett has to say, his logic is scary!

> > > Jan Y

> >

>

>Hi Jan Y,

>

>Let me take a shot at this, and see if I can make some sense of it.

>

>For the first thing, I didn't see the show. I only have your words for what

>he said, so I'll have to base my analysis on that. It's not a good starting

>point, since even one word wrong in the quote, can make a big difference.

>

>You originally wrote that he said that:

>

> " if prayer really did work, then people could also

> use it to harm us, so he didn't believe in it! "

>

>Above you paraphrase:

>

> " he said he didn't believe ANY prayer worked because

> it could possibly be used against people. "

>

>Above you also write your interpretation:

>

> " That sounds to me like he refuses to accept any

> type of prayer because he is AFRAID of it. "

>

>It sounds to me like you're placing an unwarranted interpretation on it. He

>apparently (I don't know for sure) doesn't believe in prayer of any kind,

>period. Neither (a) Jewish, ( Christian, © Muslim nor (d) post-modern,

>energy manipulating, alt med hocus-pocus. IOW, he is acting quite

>consistently as a modern humanist would do. He therefore probably

>acknowledges no supernatural powers, whether it be from gods, angels,

>devils, or humans (witchcraft, voodoo, astrology, palm reading, fortune

>telling, telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection, meridians, etc.). IOW,

>he would therefore reject the metaphysical underpinnings of all alt med

>practices.

>

>The context of his statement(s) was when discussing something he didn't

>personally believe in, with someone (Dossey) who had some very definite

>beliefs in a non Judeo-Christian form and use of " prayer " . In such a

>situation, where he was rebutting Dossey, it would be natural for him to

>use irony, sarcasm and even ridicule. I'm not saying he did, but these

>would be the typical tools available to give spice to a debate. Dry facts

>and discussion aren't very entertaining! I suspect he was being

>hypothetical and was using some very thick irony. He's certainly not afraid

>of something he doesn't believe in. And he certainly wouldn't " choose " to

>not believe in something, because he was afraid of it. That doesn't make

>any sense.

>

>I think you'll have to take the responsibility for your interpretation of

>him. It may say more about your opinion of him, than about him. And we know

>that this list is pretty allergic to the " B " name! (Notice, I have not used

>his name one single time. I'm just being thoughtful!)........;-))

>

>Check out Randi's site:

>http://www.randi.org/index.html

>

>and

>

>The Skeptic's Dictionary

>http://skepdic.com/

>

>for more information about humanistic thinking. You'll also find

>naturalistic explanations for many of the so-called " supernatural "

>abilities and experiences alternative practitioners and other people

>report.

>

> Lee, PT

>Denmark

>

>The Quack-Files - http://www.geocities.com/healthbase

>HF List Intro. - http://www.hcrc.org/wwwboard/messages/197.shtml

>E-mail - pglee@...

>

>*******************************************************************************\

****

> " Mankind's capacity for deception and self-deception knows no limits. "

> " Mundus vult decipi " (the world wants to be deceived)

> " If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. " Reebok ad.

> " Manipulation isn't all it's cracked up to be! "

>*******************************************************************************\

****

>

> > Well you may think his logic is scary ... but take a deep breath, it

> > is also absolutely consistent with Larry Dossey's.

> >

> > Dossey's view of prayer includes that very thing: He wrote " Be

> > Careful What You Pray For ... You Just Might Get It " (1998)

> >

> > The reviews? (From amazon.com)

> >

> > Publishers Weekly

> >

> > " Dossey's intelligent and passionate work will bring readers closer

> > to the conviction that their personal interventions into the divine

> > order are effective sometimes too much so. "

> >

> > " Brilliant, poetic, scholarly...The imperative is urgent and clear:

> > we must assume a high level of responsibility for our negative and

> > hurtful thoughts, wishes, and prayers for one another. "

> >

> > Joan Borysenko, Ph.D., author of Minding the Body, Mending the Mind

> >

> > " With penetrating insight and meticulous research, Dr. Dossey revels

> > the power of prayer to harm as well as to help. This book will

> > forever change how you think and what you pray for. "

> >

> > Book Description

> > The surprising, dramatic truth about prayer how it can harm us...and

> > how we can protect ourselves.

> >

> > From the New York Times bestselling author of Healiung Words and

> > Prayer is Good Medicine comes this compelling exploration of the

> > negative side of prayer. Larry Dossey, M.D., offers remarkable

> > evidence that, just as prayer can be used positively to affect health

> > and healing, it can be also be used for negative and destructive

> > purposed. With fascinating true stories, case histories, and

> > scientific analysis, Dossey explores the nature of " toxic " prayer and

> > teaches us how to protect ourselves from its threatening influence.

> > ------------

> >

> > You might also be interested in knowing that Dossey's view

> > of " prayer " is almost completely opposite the Judeo-Christian (and

> > probably even Muslim) understanding of praying to a

> > transcendent " god. " The prayer studies he cites include things like

> > influencig the growth of bacteria and crystals. Hardly the stuff of

> > healing... but useful trying to shore up belief in telepathy,psychic

> > and " long distance " healing.

> >

> > So tossing Dr. Barrett out because of his *metaphysical* belief

> > system doesn't make sense unless you are on a metaphysical /

> > spiritual list. These questions are about " alternative " medicine and

> > its constant companion, quackery.

> >

> > JAL

> >

> > Learn more from:

> > http://home.online.no/~dusan/

> > http://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/

> > http://home.online.no/~huldakli/

> > http://www..net/

> > http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

> >

October 23, 2000

I couldn't have said it better, Larry. Well said.

Leo.

----------------------

> > >

> > > Did you

> > > > happen to see him {Dr. Barrett] (I think it was on CNN News)

when

> > > they had him rebut Larry

> > > > Dossey's study on prayer and healing? He said that if prayer

> > > really did

> > > > work, then people could also use it to harm us, so he didn't

> > > believe in it!

> > > > I don't listen to anything Barrett has to say, his logic is

scary!

> > > > Jan Y

> > >

> >

> >Hi Jan Y,

> >

> >Let me take a shot at this, and see if I can make some sense of it.

> >

> >For the first thing, I didn't see the show. I only have your words

for what

> >he said, so I'll have to base my analysis on that. It's not a good

starting

> >point, since even one word wrong in the quote, can make a big

difference.

> >

> >You originally wrote that he said that:

> >

> > " if prayer really did work, then people could also

> > use it to harm us, so he didn't believe in it! "

> >

> >Above you paraphrase:

> >

> > " he said he didn't believe ANY prayer worked because

> > it could possibly be used against people. "

> >

> >Above you also write your interpretation:

> >

> > " That sounds to me like he refuses to accept any

> > type of prayer because he is AFRAID of it. "

> >

> >It sounds to me like you're placing an unwarranted interpretation

on it. He

> >apparently (I don't know for sure) doesn't believe in prayer of

any

kind,

post-modern,

> >energy manipulating, alt med hocus-pocus. IOW, he is acting quite

> >consistently as a modern humanist would do. He therefore probably

> >acknowledges no supernatural powers, whether it be from gods,

angels,

> >devils, or humans (witchcraft, voodoo, astrology, palm reading,

fortune

> >telling, telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection, meridians,

etc.). IOW,

> >he would therefore reject the metaphysical underpinnings of all

alt

med

> >practices.

> >

> >The context of his statement(s) was when discussing something he

didn't

> >personally believe in, with someone (Dossey) who had some very

definite

> >beliefs in a non Judeo-Christian form and use of " prayer " . In such

a

> >situation, where he was rebutting Dossey, it would be natural for

him to

> >use irony, sarcasm and even ridicule. I'm not saying he did, but

these

> >would be the typical tools available to give spice to a debate.

Dry

facts

> >and discussion aren't very entertaining! I suspect he was being

> >hypothetical and was using some very thick irony. He's certainly

not afraid

> >of something he doesn't believe in. And he certainly wouldn't

" choose " to

> >not believe in something, because he was afraid of it. That

doesn't

make

> >any sense.

> >

> >I think you'll have to take the responsibility for your

interpretation of

> >him. It may say more about your opinion of him, than about him.

And

we know

> >that this list is pretty allergic to the " B " name! (Notice, I have

not used

> >his name one single time. I'm just being thoughtful!)........;-))

> >

> >Check out Randi's site:

> >http://www.randi.org/index.html

> >

> >and

> >

> >The Skeptic's Dictionary

> >http://skepdic.com/

> >

> >for more information about humanistic thinking. You'll also find

> >naturalistic explanations for many of the so-called " supernatural "

> >abilities and experiences alternative practitioners and other

people

> >report.

> >

> > Lee, PT

> >Denmark

> >

> >The Quack-Files - http://www.geocities.com/healthbase

> >HF List Intro. - http://www.hcrc.org/wwwboard/messages/197.shtml

> >E-mail - pglee@m...

> >

>

>*********************************************************************

**************

> > " Mankind's capacity for deception and self-deception knows no

limits. "

> > " Mundus vult decipi " (the world wants to be deceived)

> > " If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. "

Reebok ad.

> > " Manipulation isn't all it's cracked up to be! "

>

>*********************************************************************

**************

> >

> > > Well you may think his logic is scary ... but take a deep

breath, it

> > > is also absolutely consistent with Larry Dossey's.

> > >

> > > Dossey's view of prayer includes that very thing: He wrote " Be

> > > Careful What You Pray For ... You Just Might Get It " (1998)

> > >

> > > The reviews? (From amazon.com)

> > >

> > > Publishers Weekly

> > >

> > > " Dossey's intelligent and passionate work will bring readers

closer

> > > to the conviction that their personal interventions into the

divine

> > > order are effective sometimes too much so. "

> > >

> > > " Brilliant, poetic, scholarly...The imperative is urgent and

clear:

> > > we must assume a high level of responsibility for our negative

and

> > > hurtful thoughts, wishes, and prayers for one another. "

> > >

> > > Joan Borysenko, Ph.D., author of Minding the Body, Mending the

Mind

> > >

> > > " With penetrating insight and meticulous research, Dr. Dossey

revels

> > > the power of prayer to harm as well as to help. This book will

> > > forever change how you think and what you pray for. "

> > >

> > > Book Description

> > > The surprising, dramatic truth about prayer how it can harm

us...and

> > > how we can protect ourselves.

> > >

> > > From the New York Times bestselling author of Healiung Words and

> > > Prayer is Good Medicine comes this compelling exploration of the

> > > negative side of prayer. Larry Dossey, M.D., offers remarkable

> > > evidence that, just as prayer can be used positively to affect

health

> > > and healing, it can be also be used for negative and destructive

> > > purposed. With fascinating true stories, case histories, and

> > > scientific analysis, Dossey explores the nature of " toxic "

prayer and

> > > teaches us how to protect ourselves from its threatening

influence.

> > > ------------

> > >

> > > You might also be interested in knowing that Dossey's view

> > > of " prayer " is almost completely opposite the Judeo-Christian

(and

> > > probably even Muslim) understanding of praying to a

> > > transcendent " god. " The prayer studies he cites include things

like

> > > influencig the growth of bacteria and crystals. Hardly the

stuff of

> > > healing... but useful trying to shore up belief in

telepathy,psychic

> > > and " long distance " healing.

> > >

> > > So tossing Dr. Barrett out because of his *metaphysical* belief

> > > system doesn't make sense unless you are on a metaphysical /

> > > spiritual list. These questions are about " alternative "

medicine and

> > > its constant companion, quackery.

> > >

> > > JAL

> > >

> > > Learn more from:

> > > http://home.online.no/~dusan/

> > > http://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/

> > > http://home.online.no/~huldakli/

> > > http://www..net/

> > > http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

> > >

October 23, 2000

Wow , are you sure that PT after your name doesn't mean psychologist?

You didn't even see the broadcast, just had my interpretation to go on, and

you've thoroughly analyzed and cataloged it all! Pretty much as you've

analyzed everyone on this list. You're good! (very deep sarcasm!) We don't

need the amazing Randi, we have the amazing !

Jan Y

wrote: