Kidney Stones

January 15, 2005

Do you know if this pt has always consumed this much water, or is this a new behavior? Does the pt hava a family hx of kidney stones? Genetics are hard to beat. I'm sure MD is happy re her current water intake, though.

Do you know the content of the stones? Try to find out, and then consult a reliable nutrition text re recommendations (I've used Krause and Mahan). W/calcium oxalate stones, it is suggested to limit Na, and the kidney carries calcium, along with sodium, into the renal tubules. My bro-in-law suffers from calcium oxalate stones, and has great success increasing water and avoiding Na alone. References also make recommendations as to foods to acidify vs alkanalize the urine, according to stone content.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Kim Knopp

Akron General Medical Center

March 17, 2005

Just curious,

I have a 15 year-old patient whose MD suspects has kidney stones. An

ultrasound study done yesterday failed to reveal any stones. The doc

says they might be there but they just can't see them. First of all, in

over 20 years of practice I have never known of someone so young having

kidney stones so does anyone have any knowledge of just how common that

may be? Also, for the pain the doc is injecting Demerol and recommending

Oxycotin (sp?) at home. Jeez, talk about " take a trip and never leave

the farm " . Any similar experience out there?

J. Holzapfel, D.C.

Albany, OR.

kjholzdc@...

http://docman.chiroweb.com

March 17, 2005

With the diet this generation is largely consuming, I too am seeing more

and more things at this age I didn't see thil the 3 or 4th decade.

The kidney cleanse I have found most effective is real simple and easy:

just lay off protein for 3 days using a fruit jc fast the first day, a

veggie frut fast the next day and then fruit jc on the 3rh day again. Lots

of water of course along the way. Detox teas or any such thing as that is

good. Adding some cramberry extract would support as well. Good levels of

vitamin c and the underlying most essential minerals would round out a

suggested approach. And, of course, adequate good adjusting!!! Sunny

;'-))

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

56 Oakway Center

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541-683-5600

>From: KEVIN J HOLZAPFEL DC <kjholzdc@...>

>

>Subject: RE: Kidney stones

>Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:48:26 -0800

>

>Just curious,

>

>I have a 15 year-old patient whose MD suspects has kidney stones. An

>ultrasound study done yesterday failed to reveal any stones. The doc

>says they might be there but they just can't see them. First of all, in

>over 20 years of practice I have never known of someone so young having

>kidney stones so does anyone have any knowledge of just how common that

>may be? Also, for the pain the doc is injecting Demerol and recommending

>Oxycotin (sp?) at home. Jeez, talk about " take a trip and never leave

>the farm " . Any similar experience out there?

>

> J. Holzapfel, D.C.

>Albany, OR.

>kjholzdc@...

>http://docman.chiroweb.com

>

>OregonDCs rules:

>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

>foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

>members will be tolerated.

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>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

>it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or

>otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

>or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

March 18, 2005

-

Have they done any analysis of the stones? Cystinuria can produce stones, most commonly in the ages between 10 to 30 years of age. It is an inherited defect of the renal tubules.

There are other problems that can create stones, even in young individuals. There is a genetic tendency for over secretion of uric acid which can lead to precipitation as stones. Lab analysis of the urine and the stones will give the most information for identification of the cause.

Tom Freedland

March 18, 2005

Minga, yes she is a BIG soda and fast food consumer (as is the rest of the

family). In fact her mother recently underwent gallbladder surgery. New info

just out...urinalysis revealed material described as grains smaller than a grain

of sand. Further test results are pending. The patient is now in the hospital

for " pain control " . I suppose I never expected such small material to be so

painful while passing through the ureter. Of course, I also suppose there may

be pain causing inflammation within the kidney. I'm just surprised to see this

in one so young. Perhaps this will convince the family to change their dietary

ways...thanks...

March 18, 2005

Yes. I once drank a whole bottle of Southern Comfort before a concert

and...What?...Oh...Never mind!

HAHAHAHA

Seriously though, I have a 45 year old friend who has had had stones. Her

son passed stones at 8 and again at 11 years old. It was horrible. The doc

had to extract pieces of stones from his urethra.

Interestingly, he is now 21 years old and he is struggling with bipolar

disorder. He is taking Depakote for its lithium benefits which seems to be

working OK. It's a crappy prognosis. They are taking Naturocalm with

magnesium which might have warded off stones for a long time.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

On 3/17/05 4:48 PM, " KEVIN J HOLZAPFEL DC " <kjholzdc@...> wrote:

>

> Just curious,

>

> I have a 15 year-old patient whose MD suspects has kidney stones. An

> ultrasound study done yesterday failed to reveal any stones. The doc

> says they might be there but they just can't see them. First of all, in

> over 20 years of practice I have never known of someone so young having

> kidney stones so does anyone have any knowledge of just how common that

> may be? Also, for the pain the doc is injecting Demerol and recommending

> Oxycotin (sp?) at home. Jeez, talk about " take a trip and never leave

> the farm " . Any similar experience out there?

>

> J. Holzapfel, D.C.

> Albany, OR.

> kjholzdc@...

> http://docman.chiroweb.com

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

> communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will

> be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it

> is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

> distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her

> consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

March 18, 2005

Just teach her the degree to which the carbonation in her soda leaches

calcium .... every time she puts soda into her system she sets herself up

for another round of stones. I teach my patients with these tendencies to

do lilfe as they choose ... just to ask themselves, each time they want

soimething not good for their particular concerns to ask: " how long am I

willing to be sick or in pain? " If the answer is 'yes, I am willing to be

sick or in pain " , then have whatever they want. If the answer is 'no, I'd

rather NOT be sick or in pain " , perhaps it would be a good thing to reach

for some other food or drink.

Seems to avert some from their self-destructive behaviiors.

Sunny ;'-)

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

56 Oakway Center

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541-683-5600

>From: " kjholzdc@... " <kjholzdc@...>

>

>Subject: Re: RE: Kidney stones

>Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:24:52 GMT

>

>Minga, yes she is a BIG soda and fast food consumer (as is the rest of the

>family). In fact her mother recently underwent gallbladder surgery. New

>info just out...urinalysis revealed material described as grains smaller

>than a grain of sand. Further test results are pending. The patient is

>now in the hospital for " pain control " . I suppose I never expected such

>small material to be so painful while passing through the ureter. Of

>course, I also suppose there may be pain causing inflammation within the

>kidney. I'm just surprised to see this in one so young. Perhaps this will

>convince the family to change their dietary ways...thanks...

>

>OregonDCs rules:

>1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

>foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

>members will be tolerated.

>2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

>3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However,

>it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or

>otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

>or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

April 17, 2005

My nephew had kidney stones when he was 11. They said they usually run in

families - his father's side, not ours. As far as I know, he's been ok for

the past few years. He's 15 now.

Kidney stones

>

> Well, another adventure in the Botch house yesterday. We all got up early

to attend my son's hoops game at 9AM. Right after we paid admission and got

in the gym told us he didn't feel good. Since he just got eating about

10 pancakes before we left the house I assumed he needed to take a bm. Dad

took him to lav, nothing happened.

>

> Needless to say, I left the game with because he continued to say he

didn't feel good. Well, he had a bm at home, but not the trots as I had

suspected and he continued to be in excruciating pain for the next hour or

so. I watched him carefully and he kept curling up in a ball and holding

his left side. I immediately thought the worst, something with his kidneys

or his appendix. When Don got home he thought we should take him to the

pediatrician, which he did. began to vomit in the car on the way there

and continued to be in extreme pain.

>

> Ped. couldn't figure it out so Ry was sent to the hospital and admitted

for tests. Fortunately we didn't have to take him to emergency, they just

admitted him to the pediatric ward right away. By the time I met Don there

didn't seem very good. It absolutely killed me to see him in such pain

and crying......which he rarely does. I had to keep hiding my tears from

him because I couldn't do anything to take his pain away. They hooked him

up to an IV because of the vomiting and I notice as I held him on the bed

that he was holding a little lower on his stomach to show me where it hurt.

I kept telling Don that I believed it was a kidney stone. No one else

seemed concerned with my diagnosis. Well, A COUPLE HOURS later, as we were

taking him to another floor for xrays, he continued to cry in pain but I

noticed he was holding down even lower towards his penis. He endured the

xrays (they were thinking bowel obstruction) and when he got back to the

room the nurse said they still needed a urine specimen and asked to try

to use the bathroom.

>

> Well, he sat down and as we held the container there to catch his urine he

started to pee, and winced, and then went. As soon as he was done peeing he

was IMMEDIATELY better and back to the gabby, laughing, happy boy we know.

I mean IMMEDIATELY! I looked in the container to see if he passed anything

before giving it to the nurse and didn't see anything. But I'm telling you,

he was absolutely fine from that moment on!

>

> The doctor looked at all the bloodwork and xrays and could not think of

anything else it could be except a kidney stone. We're supposed to filter

his urine for 48 hours. No restrictions of any kind as far as diet either.

Has anybody's child had a kidney stone? I thought it was quite unusual for

someone 's age to get one. They did caution that the stone could have

just moved to his bladder and still need to be passed, but there's a good

chance the IV they gave him flushed it out.

>

> There is nothing worse in this world than seeing a child in such pain and

not being able to make it go away. I think I aged another 10 years in one

day yesterday!

>

> Jackie, Mom to 17ds, 14, Bradley 11 (who called at 11:30 last

night from his sleepover to make sure his brother is ok! : ) )

>

April 17, 2005