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> Hi all from Sue, could it be that i have something wrong with my Parathiroid and not my thyroid or indeed both, yesterday at work just before lunch i had a sudden pain up under my ribs on the right side, it was painful enough to limit my intake of breath which made yawning impossible because i just could'nt breath in that deep,

Hi Sue,

If the pain his high up under the rib cage, it might be Tietze's syndrome, which is harmless, but pretty painful. I get it from time to time.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Tietzes-syndrome/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

Best wishes,

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Hi there,

Pain under the ribs is more often than not the adrenals - I have kidney issues and I am under a renal specialist at a London hospital - so I am constantly tested for all renal issues when this pain started.

Nothing found but when I got my adrenals sorted out -i.e I was on too much thyroid medication for the amount of cortisol I could produce - the pains went away. When I searched deep into the internet it did say that this pain was due to adrenal issues.

Hope this helps

Mandy

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>

> Hi there,

>

> Pain under the ribs is more often than not the adrenals - I have kidney

> Hi Mandy thanks for your advice but due to the pain i went to see the doctor

and she sent me to hospital, after several tests and xrays they came to the

" conclusion " (well guessed) that it may be pneumonia!!!while in there i saw a

perfect oppotunity to get my thyroid checked( what a joke)the doctor put on the

blood form thyroid diagnostic but when i asked for the results with the

reference range i was told that they could only find the tsh which was 1.08 ref

range 0.35-5.50mu/L,and subsequently got into a stand up argument with this nut

when he tried to tell me that in uk that is all they test for, will try again on

nov 27th when i go to see a ( i think ) decent doctor at my local surgery. luv

sue X

>

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  • 1 month later...

It certainly is scary to hear that eating healthy could make you sick but I

guess too much of anything can do that. I hope that you feel better soon. I

have only recently started adding kale to my smoothies so I will try and be

careful with all of this. Thanks for letting us know.

>

> Hi I'm new to the group, Iv had my vitamix for 2 months and I love it! Every

morning for the last 8 weeks I make myself a morning smoothie, Kale, spinach,

strawberries, banana, yum, Last week I found myself in the hospital with a

kidney stone, I have never had one, I come to find out that spinach & kale have

a lot of calcium which is the cause of the stone, I am so bummed, first of all

my doctor told me to stop the spinach & kale, I loved my smoothie every morning,

I felt great, lost weight, etc. anybody heard of this? I googled it and sure

enough it happens to a lot of people. I made a stone in just 8 weeks, scary.

>

>

>

>

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Once you're stone-free, you might want to incorporate a daily gram or so of Vitamin C into your diet to keep your urine acid. Some claim that it causes stones but that's not so and I think research has since disproved this.

Just don't consume as MUCH spinach. :)

Re: Kidney stones

It certainly is scary to hear that eating healthy could make you sick but I guess too much of anything can do that. I hope that you feel better soon. I have only recently started adding kale to my smoothies so I will try and be careful with all of this. Thanks for letting us know.

>

> Hi I'm new to the group, Iv had my vitamix for 2 months and I love it! Every morning for the last 8 weeks I make myself a morning smoothie, Kale, spinach, strawberries, banana, yum, Last week I found myself in the hospital with a kidney stone, I have never had one, I come to find out that spinach & kale have a lot of calcium which is the cause of the stone, I am so bummed, first of all my doctor told me to stop the spinach & kale, I loved my smoothie every morning, I felt great, lost weight, etc. anybody heard of this? I googled it and sure enough it happens to a lot of people. I made a stone in just 8 weeks, scary.

>

>

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It is actually the oxalates in many veggies that can cause stones, and it often happens if you don't consume enough water in addition to your smoothies. I have lupus, so my kidneys have never functioned properly, and I have to be super careful with stones forming. I haven't had leafy greens in years, since they are not good for me-SURPRISE-greens are not a one-size-fits-all veggie! I grow my own greens so I can add them to my daughter's smoothies, but I limit her to once a week on some, since I don't want her to form stones. Don't be bummed-there are still plenty of things you can throw into a smoothie, and perhaps have your heavy greens once in a while, or in small amounts. I was truly bummed when I realized that fruits and veggies were mostly BAD for me, since it goes against everything we are ever taught about food. I also have

to avoid foods high in iron and protein, again going against all I ever believed about food. There are plenty of adjustments that can be made though. Hope you recover quickly!

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I have

worked in the urology industry for over 20 years - without giving you my boring

history - I worked for the company that invented the technology that breaks up

kidney stones. If there is one thing I am very well educated in, it is

kidney stones - they were my life for close to 20 years - not only did I perform

the treatments, I taught the surgeons and ancillary staff how to perform the

treatments! (I'm now in another field completely - travel! Way more fun!!)

Anyways….

if I had one bit of advice to give you (not that you asked!!) - water, water,

water!! Yes, spinach and kale are stone forming culprits… however,

both can be enjoyed in moderation as long as you have appropriate amounts of

water intake. Please keep in mind caffeine is a diuretic, it does nothing

to hydrate your kidneys - caffeine based beverages do not count towards

your water intake, they detract from it. If you don't like the taste of

plain water, add some lemon to it - the lemon will do you a world of

good. There are also many different types (composition) of stones -

not all are calcium based, some have no calcium, some only small amounts of

calcium, some are pure calcium. Treatments can vary depending on your

stone type.

A vast

portion of the population actually forms stones throughout their life - the

difference is people who are well hydrated pass the microscopic fragments (less

than 1mm) and never even knew they had them. When you kidneys are really

well hydrated the stones tend not to " stick around " and grow. Dehydration

and excess calcium intake are 2 of the leading causes of stones. In the

urology industry we refer to " stone season " and the " stone

belt " - there are areas of the US (think hot and humid) that have a much

higher incidence of stones than other areas of the country. Another

interesting note - there is a fairly high incidence of stones among pregnant

women - why? Pre-natal vitamins combined with mild dehydration. I am NOT

suggesting pregnant women stop taking pre-natal vitamins…. they just need

to keep their water intake up. (most slack off water because they are

running to the little girls room so often - compliments of baby!)

Obviously

I could go on about stones for days….. I've probably bored everyone

as it is. Sorry……

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My

email crossed in cyberspace with 's.

She is

spot on about the oxalates.

In

addition to dehydration and excess calcium (the 2 leading causes) - many

medical conditions contribute to stone pre-disposition in folks. I am not

about to give medical advice, so please take any / all of my comments as my

opinion based on my knowledge and work in the industry and not direct medical

advice.

With

regards to excess calcium - this has become a real issue in the last 10 years with

the increasing popularity of calcium based supplements for bone density

issues. Many folks take their supplements, but do not have adequate

nutritional intake of the other required nutrients for calcium

absorption. They take these plus a calcium tab, plus a daily vitamin,

plus….. more is not always better. :-)

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Thanks

…. it's funny - because the 2 things I know best in the

world are kidney stones and travel. My husband will tell you I don't know

when to stop with either one! ha-ha!!!

I am

always happy to share any info I have especially if it is helpful. That's

why I was a corporate and clinical trainer for so many years. I love

providing people with useful information.

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You didn't bore me, Kelley!

Re: Re: Kidney stones

I have worked in the urology industry for over 20 years - without giving you my boring history - I worked for the company that invented the technology that breaks up kidney stones. If there is one thing I am very well educated in, it is kidney stones - they were my life for close to 20 years - not only did I perform the treatments, I taught the surgeons and ancillary staff how to perform the treatments! (I'm now in another field completely - travel! Way more fun!!)

Anyways…. if I had one bit of advice to give you (not that you asked!!) - water, water, water!! Yes, spinach and kale are stone forming culprits… however, both can be enjoyed in moderation as long as you have appropriate amounts of water intake. Please keep in mind caffeine is a diuretic, it does nothing to hydrate your kidneys - caffeine based beverages do not count towards your water intake, they detract from it. If you don't like the taste of plain water, add some lemon to it - the lemon will do you a world of good. There are also many different types (composition) of stones - not all are calcium based, some have no calcium, some only small amounts of calcium, some are pure calcium. Treatments can vary depending on your stone type.

A vast portion of the population actually forms stones throughout their life - the difference is people who are well hydrated pass the microscopic fragments (less than 1mm) and never even knew they had them. When you kidneys are really well hydrated the stones tend not to "stick around" and grow. Dehydration and excess calcium intake are 2 of the leading causes of stones. In the urology industry we refer to "stone season" and the "stone belt" - there are areas of the US (think hot and humid) that have a much higher incidence of stones than other areas of the country. Another interesting note - there is a fairly high incidence of stones among pregnant women - why? Pre-natal vitamins combined with mild dehydration. I am NOT suggesting pregnant women stop taking pre-natal vitamins…. they just need to keep their water intake up. (most slack off water because they are running to the little girls room so often - compliments of baby!)

Obviously I could go on about stones for days….. I've probably bored everyone as it is. Sorry……

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Aren't better calcium supplements usually formulated with the correct calcium-to-magnesium ratio?

Re: Re: Kidney stones

My email crossed in cyberspace with 's.

She is spot on about the oxalates.

In addition to dehydration and excess calcium (the 2 leading causes) - many medical conditions contribute to stone pre-disposition in folks. I am not about to give medical advice, so please take any / all of my comments as my opinion based on my knowledge and work in the industry and not direct medical advice.

With regards to excess calcium - this has become a real issue in the last 10 years with the increasing popularity of calcium based supplements for bone density issues. Many folks take their supplements, but do not have adequate nutritional intake of the other required nutrients for calcium absorption. They take these plus a calcium tab, plus a daily vitamin, plus….. more is not always better. :-)

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I think " better " would be relative. While there ARE " better " supplements that

still have the " correct " ratio, the very idea of a one-size-fits-all supplement

is ridiculous to begin with. I am personally of the mindset that we should get

our nutrition from food, not pills that are marketed to the masses based on what

some group of old farts has decided is the right amount. If people would get to

know their body better, they would learn when and how to give it what it needs.

The calcium pill you take today may not be good for you tomorrow, depending on

what other sources of calcium you had on any given day-same applies for ANY

supplement, really. I think one reason people do form things like kidney

stones, is that they may be getting plenty of calcium from their diets alone,

but mass marketing leads them to believe they need to take a pill too. As I

mentioned, in MY case, turned out too much of a " good " thing is what was keeping

me sick and crippled. Once I learned to balance my nutrition through REAL food,

not pills, I healed almost completely. Anyone who is eating a well balanced

diet (preferably organic) is quite likely getting MORE than enough of the things

they need, without taking pills on top of it.

>

> Aren't better calcium supplements usually formulated with the correct

calcium-to-magnesium ratio?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Re: Kidney stones

>

>  

> My email crossed in cyberspace with 's.

> She is spot on about the oxalates. 

> In addition to dehydration and excess calcium (the 2 leading causes) - many

medical conditions contribute to stone pre-disposition in folks.  I am not

about to give medical advice, so please take any / all of my comments as my

opinion based on my knowledge and work in the industry and not direct medical

advice. 

> With regards to excess calcium - this has become a real issue in the last 10

years with the increasing popularity of calcium based supplements for bone

density issues.  Many folks take their supplements, but do not have adequate

nutritional intake of the other required nutrients for calcium absorption. 

They take these plus a calcium tab, plus a daily vitamin, plus…..   more is

not always better.  :-)

>  

>  

>

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Yes, the better ones are - but some folks don't know how to tell a better one

from not so they buy the " cheapest " - sometimes they get lucky - sometimes not.

Also - Vitamin D levels have an affect on calcium absorption. If someone is

deficient in Vitamin D, the calcium will not be absorbed properly and thus

becomes excess calcium in their system.

Vitamin C and Lactose (the dreaded lactose!) can promote calcium absorption.

Phytic Acid and Oxalic Acid inhibit absorption.

The average adult only absorbs about 15%-20% of their calcium intake - that can

make a great deal of excess calcium in the system. Most is excreted, but not

all - the amount that is not excreted becomes problematic.

>

> Aren't better calcium supplements usually formulated with the correct

calcium-to-magnesium ratio?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Re: Kidney stones

>

>  

> My email crossed in cyberspace with 's.

> She is spot on about the oxalates. 

> In addition to dehydration and excess calcium (the 2 leading causes) - many

medical conditions contribute to stone pre-disposition in folks.  I am not

about to give medical advice, so please take any / all of my comments as my

opinion based on my knowledge and work in the industry and not direct medical

advice. 

> With regards to excess calcium - this has become a real issue in the last 10

years with the increasing popularity of calcium based supplements for bone

density issues.  Many folks take their supplements, but do not have adequate

nutritional intake of the other required nutrients for calcium absorption. 

They take these plus a calcium tab, plus a daily vitamin, plus…..   more is

not always better.  :-)

>  

>  

>

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WOW - thanks for all the info .  I usually buy about 2 pounds of organic spinach a week plus 2 bunches of kale and have at least one green smoothie per day.  I think I will cut back to 1 pound and try other non sweet greens such as baby lettuces and arugula.  Are they ok?

The other Leanne

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the amount of Calcium in baby lettuce can vary - but there usually is much less

than in the darker leafy greens.

Arugula has the same amount of calcium as Spinach but is lower in Oxalates. It

is often the oxalates that are blocking the absorption - not the calcium.

I hope my information is not causing people to want to avoid Spinach and Kale -

that is not my intent!! I personally have Spinach every day - often more than

once a day and have done so for years. I'm not a big fan of Kale - but I am

going to try it again in the new year.

Here's an Arugula smoothie recipe that can be modified for the vitamix (less

water, add ice)

Arugula Green Smoothie

2 cups water

1 bunch arugula

1 pear

2 bananas

pinch (or more!) nutmeg

Blend and enjoy!

>

> WOW - thanks for all the info . I usually buy about 2 pounds of

> organic spinach a week plus 2 bunches of kale and have at least one green

> smoothie per day. I think I will cut back to 1 pound and try other non

> sweet greens such as baby lettuces and arugula. Are they ok?

>

> The other Leanne

>

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I'm not sure if you got this reply or not.

It did not show up in my email - so I'm trying again just in case.

> >

> > WOW - thanks for all the info . I usually buy about 2 pounds of

> > organic spinach a week plus 2 bunches of kale and have at least one green

> > smoothie per day. I think I will cut back to 1 pound and try other non

> > sweet greens such as baby lettuces and arugula. Are they ok?

> >

> > The other Leanne

> >

>

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I think that the R in RDA stands for "recommended" for that very reason--it's a ballpark figure which means that it takes into account that individuals might (and probably do) have different needs. As to getting our nutrition exclusively from food, I agree that it's an ideal but it's not always practical or even possible (comatose patients or those in ICUs for whatever reason, e.g., can't be nutritionally sustained in a mainstream manner, regardless of how much it might benefit them). I personally have no problem with supplements and take them myself but would recommend that those who do so try to be informed.

Re: Re: Kidney stones

>

> Â

> My email crossed in cyberspace with 's.

> She is spot on about the oxalates.Â

> In addition to dehydration and excess calcium (the 2 leading causes) - many medical conditions contribute to stone pre-disposition in folks. I am not about to give medical advice, so please take any / all of my comments as my opinion based on my knowledge and work in the industry and not direct medical advice.Â

> With regards to excess calcium - this has become a real issue in the last 10 years with the increasing popularity of calcium based supplements for bone density issues. Many folks take their supplements, but do not have adequate nutritional intake of the other required nutrients for calcium absorption. They take these plus a calcium tab, plus a daily vitamin, plus…..  more is not always better. :-)

> Â

> Â

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I fully agree, . There are many reasons someone might need a supplement. I am just of the mindset personally that one should TRY to get nutrients from a well balanced diet. The RDA is SO outdated. It was devised during the war to make sure soldiers were getting adequate nutrition, and that those on rationed food were getting enough as well. I don't think it applies any more. There is such an available bounty of foods available, that one CAN get their nutrition from food, but doesn't mean they always can. I guess my worry with supplements is the excess someone could get.From:

<kareningotham@...>Subject: Re: Re: Kidney stones Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 4:34 PM

I think that the R in RDA stands for "recommended" for that very reason--it's a ballpark figure which means that it takes into account that individuals might (and probably do) have different needs. As to getting our nutrition exclusively from food, I agree that it's an ideal but it's not always practical or even possible (comatose patients or those in ICUs for whatever reason, e.g., can't be nutritionally sustained in a mainstream manner, regardless of how much it might benefit them). I personally have no problem with supplements and take them myself but would recommend that those who do so try to be informed.

Re: Re: Kidney stones

>

> Â

> My email crossed in cyberspace with 's.

> She is spot on about the oxalates.Â

> In addition to dehydration and excess calcium (the 2 leading causes) - many medical conditions contribute to stone pre-disposition in folks. I am not about to give medical advice, so please take any / all of my comments as my opinion based on my knowledge and work in the industry and not direct medical advice.Â

> With regards to excess calcium - this has become a real issue in the last 10 years with the increasing popularity of calcium based supplements for bone density issues. Many folks take their supplements, but do not have adequate nutritional intake of the other required nutrients for calcium absorption. They take these plus a calcium tab, plus a daily vitamin, plus…..  more is not always better. :-)

> Â

> Â

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Not boring at all, in fact it was very interesting. Thanks!

Fran

In a message dated 12/31/2010 1:04:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kelaus@... writes:

I have worked in the urology industry for over 20 years - without giving you my boring history - I worked for the company that invented the technology that breaks up kidney stones. If there is one thing I am very well educated in, it is kidney stones - they were my life for close to 20 years - not only did I perform the treatments, I taught the surgeons and ancillary staff how to perform the treatments! (I'm now in another field completely - travel! Way more fun!!)

Anyways…. if I had one bit of advice to give you (not that you asked!!) - water, water, water!! Yes, spinach and kale are stone forming culprits… however, both can be enjoyed in moderation as long as you have appropriate amounts of water intake. Please keep in mind caffeine is a diuretic, it does nothing to hydrate your kidneys - caffeine based beverages do not count towards your water intake, they detract from it. If you don't like the taste of plain water, add some lemon to it - the lemon will do you a world of good. There are also many different types (composition) of stones - not all are calcium based, some have no calcium, some only small amounts of calcium, some are pure calcium. Treatments can vary depending on your stone type.

A vast portion of the population actually forms stones throughout their life - the difference is people who are well hydrated pass the microscopic fragments (less than 1mm) and never even knew they had them. When you kidneys are really well hydrated the stones tend not to "stick around" and grow. Dehydration and excess calcium intake are 2 of the leading causes of stones. In the urology industry we refer to "stone season" and the "stone belt" - there are areas of the US (think hot and humid) that have a much higher incidence of stones than other areas of the country. Another interesting note - there is a fairly high incidence of stones among pregnant women - why? Pre-natal vitamins combined with mild dehydration. I am NOT suggesting pregnant women stop taking pre-natal vitamins…. they just need to keep their water intake up. (most slack off water because they are running to the little girls room so often - compliments of baby!)

Obviously I could go on about stones for days….. I've probably bored everyone as it is. Sorry……

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Thank you so much everyone, all this information is very helpful, I have already

upped my water intake, but so far I have not had a smoothie in a week. I never

thought I was getting too much, I only had 1 smoothie a day 1 banana, a few

strawberries, 2 handfuls of organic baby spinach, & 2 kale leaves and water. I

saw my acupuncturist as well as my doctor, the acupuncturist said no more kale

or spinach and limit my beet intake, he did say I could have cabbage,dandelion,

asparagus, cucumber and all squashes. My regular doctor said he felt I was

dehydrated and my blood tests showed no calcium in my blood. I dont want to give

up my favorite green smoothie but will limit it to a few times a week followed

by a lot of water. How much spinach do people normally put in? a cup? a handful?

I really did not think it was much at all, I felt so great everyday and as

mentioned before lost almost 10 pound right away. any other good morning

smoothie recipes?

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies and Happy new year!

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, also remember this: your body is probably NOT used to such an intake of

veggies all at once. It may not seem like a large amount in a smoothie, but

when you see all that laid out ready to make, it is probably not a volume of

veggies and fruits you are used to consuming at one time. It takes the body a

while to adjust to all those goodies! You may actually have been depleted of

some vitamins/minerals, and your body just simply can't absorb them so quickly.

Many people actually have to work up to a decent sized smoothie. Also, remember

that most serving sizes that Americans are used to is WAY more than we should be

taking in at one time anyway. Most people consume a 10 or 12 oz drink at any

given time without a thought. I give my teen daughter about 4 ounces at a time.

Also, you mentioned that your spinach is organic-what about the rest of the

stuff? Remember too, that when you use non organic fruits and veggies you are

also taking in a high concentration of pesticide residues all at once too.

Pesticides CANNOT be washed off-they are sprayed from the time they are planted,

and much of it is taken up into the produce. All the washing in the world won't

change that.

>

> Thank you so much everyone, all this information is very helpful, I have

already upped my water intake, but so far I have not had a smoothie in a week. I

never thought I was getting too much, I only had 1 smoothie a day 1 banana, a

few strawberries, 2 handfuls of organic baby spinach, & 2 kale leaves and water.

I saw my acupuncturist as well as my doctor, the acupuncturist said no more kale

or spinach and limit my beet intake, he did say I could have cabbage,dandelion,

asparagus, cucumber and all squashes. My regular doctor said he felt I was

dehydrated and my blood tests showed no calcium in my blood. I dont want to give

up my favorite green smoothie but will limit it to a few times a week followed

by a lot of water. How much spinach do people normally put in? a cup? a handful?

I really did not think it was much at all, I felt so great everyday and as

mentioned before lost almost 10 pound right away. any other good morning

smoothie recipes?

>

> Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies and Happy new year!

>

>

>

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Well I find this information very informative. I have poor functioning kidneys and have learned the hard way to DRINK WATER...I was also suffering my from very bad leg cramps, in the shin bone areas. Once I upped my water intake they have completely subsided. We tend to forget how important our free drink is! I was not bored one bit!!!!

Kandy

From: Kelley Austin <kelaus@...>Subject: Re: Re: Kidney stones Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 1:03 PM

I have worked in the urology industry for over 20 years - without giving you my boring history - I worked for the company that invented the technology that breaks up kidney stones. If there is one thing I am very well educated in, it is kidney stones - they were my life for close to 20 years - not only did I perform the treatments, I taught the surgeons and ancillary staff how to perform the treatments! (I'm now in another field completely - travel! Way more fun!!)

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Seems a good time to mention you should drink QUALITY water. Bottled water

labeled as " purified " or " enhanced " is loaded with chemical crap and is no

better than tap water-all full of nasties.

>

>

> From: Kelley Austin <kelaus@...>

> Subject: Re: Re: Kidney stones

>

> Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 1:03 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I have worked in the urology industry for over 20 years - without giving you

my boring history - I worked for the company that invented the technology that

breaks up kidney stones.  If there is one thing I am very well educated in, it

is kidney stones - they were my life for close to 20 years - not only did I

perform the treatments, I taught the surgeons and ancillary staff how to perform

the treatments! (I'm now in another field completely - travel!  Way more fun!!)

>

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