soy

[Guest guest]

Should I duck and run now?

> >Sheri, Jane's last post was good for information. You don't want

to

> >scare the beegeebees out of the girl though. She has a great start

> >not vaccinating, and organic is better. When I was born over four

> >decades ago, (ugh) if it wasn't for soy I would have died. I was

so

> >allergic to the casein formula my mother was feeding me, at 10

days

> >old they thought I would die. I definitely flourished on soy, but

I'm

> >not the healthiest of all people today.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/10/2003 11:45:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

ironwood55@... writes:

<< I am certainly confused about the soy issue. Dr D says soy is OK. >>

The soy issue is confusing like many of the other topics. You have to read

the articles and studies and decide for yourself. Soy comes with toxins. If

the toxins are removed then the soy is less dangerous. Soy is far better for

type As than Os. I find that dairy cream or heavy cream is much better for me

to use than soy milk. I don't use it very often but do when I need milk in a

recipe.

[Guest guest]

Oh NO! I have not heard about Soy problems--I thought it was good for

hot flashes and menopause!! What gives???

Soy

wrote:

>Wasn't that something about the soy? Who would have thought.

>That's one reason I could never eat any of the Atkins products.

>They are all made with soy.

When McCartney died of cancer, it shocked a lot of people, because

she had been a longtime vegetarian. However, when I read one of her

cookbooks, the recipes were loaded with soy products. It does make you

think....

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

Connie,

Soy is very damaging to the thyroid and can also cause thyroid problems. The

only soy that doesn't interfere in the thyroid is soy sauce.

Love,

Oh NO! I have not heard about Soy problems--I thought it was good for

hot flashes and menopause!! What gives???

Soy

wrote:

>Wasn't that something about the soy? Who would have thought.

>That's one reason I could never eat any of the Atkins products.

>They are all made with soy.

When McCartney died of cancer, it shocked a lot of people, because

she had been a longtime vegetarian. However, when I read one of her

cookbooks, the recipes were loaded with soy products. It does make you

think....

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

The two books by Bruce Fife go into the soy problem. It is very interesting

reading.

Love,

wrote:

>Wasn't that something about the soy? Who would have thought.

>That's one reason I could never eat any of the Atkins products.

>They are all made with soy.

When McCartney died of cancer, it shocked a lot of people, because

she had been a longtime vegetarian. However, when I read one of her

cookbooks, the recipes were loaded with soy products. It does make you

think....

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

Hi Connie,

Soy is bad to take if you have thyroid problems. That's the only bad

thing that I've heard about it.

Love, Liz

---

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:08:18 -0600 " Miskinis, Connie S "

<cmiskini@...> writes:

Oh NO! I have not heard about Soy problems--I thought it was good for

hot flashes and menopause!! What gives???

[Guest guest]

Oh My Gosh! Thank You , I drink soy milk on my bran and oats. NO

More!!!! :-)

Soy

wrote:

>Wasn't that something about the soy? Who would have thought.

>That's one reason I could never eat any of the Atkins products.

>They are all made with soy.

When McCartney died of cancer, it shocked a lot of people,

because

she had been a longtime vegetarian. However, when I read one of her

cookbooks, the recipes were loaded with soy products. It does make

you

think....

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

Thanks Liz. I don't need that! :-) Connie

Re: Soy

Hi Connie,

Soy is bad to take if you have thyroid problems. That's the only bad

thing that I've heard about it.

Love, Liz

---

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:08:18 -0600 " Miskinis, Connie S "

<cmiskini@...> writes:

Oh NO! I have not heard about Soy problems--I thought it was good for

hot flashes and menopause!! What gives???

[Guest guest]

This is so true Jocelyn, and it is also true about soy sauce and miso being

ok. It's pretty scary!!!

Love,

There are many things that are coming out about soy in addition to its

effect on the thyroid.

- Soy contains high levels of natural toxins that prevent mineral

absorption and a potent enzyme inhibitor that blocks enzymes needed for

protein digestion.

- There are concerns about the estrogen-like constituents of soy

(isoflavones) that are found in soy formulas for infants. An infant being

fed solely soy formula consumes the equivalent (based on body weight) of at

least 5 birth control pills daily. This can cause disturbing changes in

the hormonal health of both boys and girls.

- Although soy is promoted as providing protection against breast cancer,

studies have found that consuming soy protein isolate (textured vegetable

protein, which is the constituent of soy-based meat substitutes) caused an

increase in breast cell changes that are an early sign of breast cancer.

As I understand it, fermented soybean products (such as soy sauce, miso) do

not have the same effects. I'm sure that soy in small quantities shouldn't

be a great cause for concern. What does alarm me is the soy that is being

consumed in large quantities as a meat substitute and is being added to

many prepared foods (there is even soy in some brands of canned tuna).

Althought I'm sure that more research will be done in the future, the

potential dangers are enough to convince me to avoid soy - I just don't

need it to live a healthy life.

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jocelyne!!!! I never knew all of that. I don't use soy because I

have nodules on my thyroid, but I had no clue that it can hurt you in

other ways too.

Love, liz

---

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:02:21 -0500 jag14 <jag14@...> writes:

There are many things that are coming out about soy in addition to its

effect on the thyroid.

- Soy contains high levels of natural toxins that prevent mineral

absorption and a potent enzyme inhibitor that blocks enzymes needed for

protein digestion.

- There are concerns about the estrogen-like constituents of soy

(isoflavones) that are found in soy formulas for infants. An infant

being

fed solely soy formula consumes the equivalent (based on body weight) of

at

least 5 birth control pills daily. This can cause disturbing changes in

the hormonal health of both boys and girls.

- Although soy is promoted as providing protection against breast cancer,

studies have found that consuming soy protein isolate (textured vegetable

protein, which is the constituent of soy-based meat substitutes) caused

an

increase in breast cell changes that are an early sign of breast cancer.

As I understand it, fermented soybean products (such as soy sauce, miso)

do

not have the same effects. I'm sure that soy in small quantities

shouldn't

be a great cause for concern. What does alarm me is the soy that is

being

consumed in large quantities as a meat substitute and is being added to

many prepared foods (there is even soy in some brands of canned tuna).

Althought I'm sure that more research will be done in the future, the

potential dangers are enough to convince me to avoid soy - I just don't

need it to live a healthy life.

~~ Jocelyne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/11/2004 11:56:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

joyfulitl@... writes:

> Someone mentioned that soy is not a great thing for either a secretor or

> non-secretor.

I'm sure a lot of people will jump on this but from what I've read soy is

full of toxins and unless it's fermented some of the toxins are still there.

There's a whole dark side of the web that discusses soy. Some are:

http://www.karinya.com/soydangers.htm

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/truth_about_soy.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

Hope this helps

Max

[Guest guest]

Avoid soy.

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

Soy

Since I am awaiting my copy of LR4YBT, I am going by Christiano's book.

Someone mentioned that soy is not a great thing for either a secretor or

non-secretor. Please elaborate on the soy thing. Thanks to who

sent

me the description of secretor.

Thanks so much,

Joy

[Guest guest]

Soy is very poorly digested by Os. On top of that, you get sugar in soy

milk that is also anti O.

BTW, as an O, having cereal with soymilk for breakfast is the opposite

of what you should be eating.

Where is protein? Having sugar for breakfast is not what had in

mind for Os.

ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com

Soy

Axel or others with an opinion:

What is your concern about soy, even for secretors? I use soymilk

with cereal for breakfast. I'm sure it's an improvement over lowfat

milk, but I'm interested in any other thoughts on the subject.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/2004 1:10:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cherylhcmba@... writes:

> What is your concern about soy

It's sets in my stomach like cement. Pre-BTD I tried so hard to use soy

because it was " supposed " to be good for you. Just the thought of it makes my

stomach turn <puking sound>.

[Guest guest]

you need to get enough iodine if you are eating soy (300mcg/day).

Gracia

> Hello Sherry.. Thanks for the info.. thanks for your support to.. HOw long

did it take for the 12 pounds to go away??? I am not sure if this is related

or not but I have noticed I need a one hour nap lately.. everyday usually

but the thing is -- I fight the nap- I am tired for one but dont take one..

I did take one today and after a 40 minute nap I feel great.. I did get up

at 9am this morning so that may be why.. I usually do get up early and about

5 hours later get a little tired.. I dont think it has nothing to do with

the soy shake because I take soy shake every morning at 5am.. but I dont

know/.. I can notice a change in weight and stuff. I like it.. I dont take

my meds until 5 hours later after shake.. so I dont think it is effecting my

meds.. dont know though.. thanks again honey Keisha

>

[Guest guest]

Again..confusion...some of my long term friends have raised their children as

vegetarians..with no problems. They have less colds than flesh eating

children in the same area.

Please advise.

> understand that 2000 year old Chinese documents discuss the toxic nature

> of soy. Eventually they found ways to ferment it. This makes it edible.

>

> I do run into families with problems due to soy use. Please see

> http://www.royalrife.com/0900.html and the following articles. Click " next "

on the

> bottom of each article. Results of soy use are often tragic for young boys

> especially. And it is no fun for girls in soy-eating families to go through

> puberty at 8! We all get enough junk estrogen without deliberately eating it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

These people also may eat less sugar, white flour, trans fats, etc.

Loyd http://www.royalrife.com

Re: Soy

Again..confusion...some of my long term friends have raised their children as

vegetarians..with no problems. They have less colds than flesh eating

children in the same area.

Please advise.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chuck for your insight. I think you are right on this matter. Now, to

find a doctor that will treat me.. I've had a very difficult time finding one.

I've really never had and endo. Not in the begining. I insisted on going to

one and my doc. finally ok'ed it and both the endo's I went to did nothing for

me, said everything was ok. So, I'm very down on endos. This is so stressfull

trying to find a doc.

Thanks

Bev

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

Bev,

You wrote:

> ... but it can be corrected by adjusting the synthroid or whatever med.

> Do you agree with this? ...

That would take care of the absorption issue, IF you intake the same

amount of T4 and soy each day and at the same time. Otherwise, you are

creating a potential roller coaster.

It does not address the conversion problem, particularly if your

physician bases your dosage ONLY on TSH. People with conversion

inhibited can have low TSH yet still be symptomatic. I am not convinced

that this effect of soy is large, but it has been reported, and that

might be enough reason to avoid it, especially if you are still

symptomatic after treatment. Weight gain IS a symptom.

Effects of goitrogens are in the medical literature, presented on the

web, and discussed in our archives.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

bev,

I've never been to an endo myself, but I am mystified at how many people

on the discussion lists have had bad experiences with them. After all,

this is their specialty. They are the ones that recommended that the

" normal " range for TSH be adjusted downward. They are the experts that

advise our GPs.

If I were shopping for a doctor now for hypoT, I think I would actually

just look for a DO rather than an endo.

Chuck

You wrote:

> Thanks Chuck for your insight. I think you are right on this matter. Now, to

find a doctor that will treat me.. I've had a very difficult time finding one.

I've really never had and endo. Not in the begining. I insisted on going to

one and my doc. finally ok'ed it and both the endo's I went to did nothing for

me, said everything was ok. So, I'm very down on endos. This is so stressfull

trying to find a doc.

> Thanks

> Bev

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Bev,

>

> You wrote:

>

>

>>... but it can be corrected by adjusting the synthroid or whatever med.

>> Do you agree with this? ...

>

>

> That would take care of the absorption issue, IF you intake the same

> amount of T4 and soy each day and at the same time. Otherwise, you are

> creating a potential roller coaster.

>

> It does not address the conversion problem, particularly if your

> physician bases your dosage ONLY on TSH. People with conversion

> inhibited can have low TSH yet still be symptomatic. I am not convinced

> that this effect of soy is large, but it has been reported, and that

> might be enough reason to avoid it, especially if you are still

> symptomatic after treatment. Weight gain IS a symptom.

>

> Effects of goitrogens are in the medical literature, presented on the

> web, and discussed in our archives.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I'm with a DO now. Why would you look for a DO instead of a MD? I have always

like the DO's myself. But what is your opinion or anybody else out there that

has an opinion? thanks

Bev

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

bev,

I've never been to an endo myself, but I am mystified at how many people

on the discussion lists have had bad experiences with them. After all,

this is their specialty. They are the ones that recommended that the

" normal " range for TSH be adjusted downward. They are the experts that

advise our GPs.

If I were shopping for a doctor now for hypoT, I think I would actually

just look for a DO rather than an endo.

Chuck

You wrote:

> Thanks Chuck for your insight. I think you are right on this matter. Now, to

find a doctor that will treat me.. I've had a very difficult time finding one.

I've really never had and endo. Not in the begining. I insisted on going to

one and my doc. finally ok'ed it and both the endo's I went to did nothing for

me, said everything was ok. So, I'm very down on endos. This is so stressfull

trying to find a doc.

> Thanks

> Bev

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Bev,

>

> You wrote:

>

>

>>... but it can be corrected by adjusting the synthroid or whatever med.

>> Do you agree with this? ...

>

>

> That would take care of the absorption issue, IF you intake the same

> amount of T4 and soy each day and at the same time. Otherwise, you are

> creating a potential roller coaster.

>

> It does not address the conversion problem, particularly if your

> physician bases your dosage ONLY on TSH. People with conversion

> inhibited can have low TSH yet still be symptomatic. I am not convinced

> that this effect of soy is large, but it has been reported, and that

> might be enough reason to avoid it, especially if you are still

> symptomatic after treatment. Weight gain IS a symptom.

>

> Effects of goitrogens are in the medical literature, presented on the

> web, and discussed in our archives.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been eating tofu and other traditionally prepared soy products off and on

for many years. When I started reading the negative things about soy products

on this forum and through links I found on this forum, I stopped eating them.

Two months ago I had my bone density tested and my bone density had dropped

suddenly and precipitously. I analyzed all the changes I had made in my diet

and lifestyle in the past year and came up with a short list of possibilities

for the problem, one of them being that I had stopped eating tofu and the other

soy products.

I've been spending the last two months researching the bone density issue,

following things up, and getting numerous blood and urine tests to track the

health of my bone turnover. As soon as I added tofu back to my diet, my results

began to stabilize. I have been followed carefully for bone density for 12

years, and I have noted that in years when I ate a lot of tofu, my bones did

well. In years where I quit or avoided tofu, my bone density always fell badly.

I have good reason to believe right now that stopping the tofu was one of the

top causes, if not the primary cause, for my sudden bone loss.

The MD said that my bone loss must be because of not eating dairy. I said (1) I

have gained bone in other years, also without dairy; and (2) millions of people

around the world never taste dairy and don't lose bone like this. He replied,

" Yes, but they eat soy! " It's one or the other, was what he was saying. There

must be other alternatives - what about those Pacific Islanders who don't eat

dairy or soy? - but I don't know what they are. Clearly, coconut and VCO wasn't

enough for me.

I am a subject in a long-term research study which includes being monitored for

bone density. The results are not yet generally available, but we have received

updates from the investigators about the ongoing findings for this study. One

of these findings is that Japanese women who eat soy have significantly higher

bone density than Japanese women who do not eat soy. The same is not true for

Chinese women - perhaps because of, the researchers told us, the kind of soy

they eat. What kind - they didn't tell us, and I believe they never asked us in

the first place! To Western MD's, perhaps, these questions aren't important to

ask ... but it does make a difference. One soy product which is firmly

established to promote good bone density is natto, a traditionally fermented

Japanese soy product. It's not because of calcium content. It may be because

of Vitamin K2, which is abundant in natto. The soy impact on bone health also

may be related to soy phytoestrogens.

I think it's very possible that natto, miso and tempeh may be healthier foods

overall than tofu. These foods are totally fermented. However, it seems that

to lump them all together as " soy " , and embrace or dismiss them, is a big

mistake, or at least for me.

In particular, it's important to avoid modern Western soy concoctions such as

soy milk, soy ice cream, soy protein shakes and bars - and, I would assume, soy

baby formula. Soy has to be processed and fermented. It's better to listen to

people in the traditional soy-consuming cultures, who know how!

I should add that my thyroid levels have been fine since resuming soy.

Nina

RE: VCO detox and diet

If you do a search on soy on the internet you will find that soy will suppress

your thyroid .It can cause weight gain.I beleive I read if were a fermented form

of soy it was safe but tofu the way we americans eat it in large amounts to

replace the meat serving is not good.

I also read that soy formula given to babies was like feeding ttem multiple

birth controll pills.Too much estrogen.One of my friends who gave soy formula to

her son thinks the formula caused

Gynamastea Im not sure I spelled that right , but its where boys grow small

feminine breasts breasts that are larger than a normal male.

IN NC

[Guest guest]

I'm not fussy about what type of soy I eat. I drink soy milk every day,

eat soy-based energy bars and soy ice cream. I take my thyroid

medication in the morning, then wait 30 minutes before eating

breakfast, which includes a glass of soy milk. My thyroid dose has been

stable for a long time.

I'd probably try a soy-free diet to see how I do, but it's tough enough

going dairy-free. I have to eat *something*.

I haven't had my bone density tested since I went dairy-free and

started a lot of soy (10 months ago), so I don't know about that yet.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

From: <szukidavis@...>

> orientals traditionally didn't eat all that much soy

not that much, but a significant amount, and my sense is that for the past

several decades they've eaten a substantial amount

> and what they did eat, was fermented.

traditionally (in ancient times) yes. Today they also eat tofu (which is

precipitated but not fermented).

> their...soy products are not eaten raw

correct

[Guest guest]

I don't know if the science is " weak " at WAP. But I haven't

been impressed with Weil. I have heard him interviewed on several

occasion. Just as in this link, he doesn't provide any science at all. He

just states his " fact " without attribution so it is hard to

follow up by looking up the research.

Irene

At 04:12 PM 2/22/2006, you wrote:

I wouldn't give much

credence to the westonaprice and mercola sites,

especially as regards soy; they strike me as extremely biased and

the science weak. I would be more apt to listen to a Dr.

Weil:

http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA326575/

Or better yet, how about researching it on pubmed or

scholar.google?

-

[Guest guest]

Totally agree!! Andy Weil doesn't know what he is talking about and

the WAPF is mainly concerned with the feeding of soy formula to

babies and they have every right to be.

Mandy

> >I wouldn't give much credence to the westonaprice and mercola

sites,

> >especially as regards soy; they strike me as extremely biased and

> >the science weak. I would be more apt to listen to a Dr.

Weil:

> >

>

><http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA326575/>http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA3

26575/

> >

> >Or better yet, how about researching it on pubmed or

scholar.google?

> >

> >

> >-

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >