soy

[Guest guest]

Sorry Chuck, I saw that earlier. Thanks.

crystal

[Guest guest]

Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

apply to lecithin.

sol

[Guest guest]

That is my assessment also.

Alobar

On 11/18/08, sol <solbun@...> wrote:

> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

> apply to lecithin.

>

> sol

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll chime in with a " me, too " on lecithin, which I've used for many years. I

may have a tendency toward gallbladder problems, and am convinced that my use of

lecithin is what keeps the bile flowing.

My cholesterol has been creeping up over the years, as it should, and my last

bloodwork in March of '08 showed a count of 235. My doc said he wasn't going to

put me on statins (Fat chance he'd have with that!!), because my HDL was so

high, and my LDL, so low.

I credit the lecithin with this positive report also.

Sharon (starshar)

Re: Soy

> That is my assessment also.

>

> Alobar

>

> On 11/18/08, sol <solbun@...> wrote:

>> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

>> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

>> apply to lecithin.

>>

>> sol

[Guest guest]

Sharon, what were your HDL, LDL, and triglyceride counts - will you share?

Thank you,

Nina

Re: Soy

I'll chime in with a " me, too " on lecithin, which I've used for many years.

I may have a tendency toward gallbladder problems, and am convinced that my

use of lecithin is what keeps the bile flowing.

My cholesterol has been creeping up over the years, as it should, and my

last bloodwork in March of '08 showed a count of 235. My doc said he wasn't

going to put me on statins (Fat chance he'd have with that!!), because my

HDL was so high, and my LDL, so low.

I credit the lecithin with this positive report also.

Sharon (starshar)

Re: Soy

> That is my assessment also.

>

> Alobar

>

> On 11/18/08, sol <solbun@...> wrote:

>> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

>> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

>> apply to lecithin.

>>

>> sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

what kind of lecithin do you take and how much?

>> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

>> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

>> apply to lecithin.

>>

>> sol

[Guest guest]

Just looked 'em up; not as great as I thought.

Total Chol=238

HDL=66 (very good)

LDL=148 (should be less than 130, and ideally around 100)

but

Chol/HDLC ratio= 3.6 and the recommendation is " less than 5 "

Trig=113

This was from last March, and my diet had " gone to hell " with far more carbs

than I've been eating in a long time (and the scale is registering that, too)

About 8 months earlier my chol was 198, so those carbs/grains make a BIG

difference----for me. I'm also a self-described " sugarholic " and even though I

sometimes get the upper hand, it's not often enough. (some nutritionist I am!)

BTW, folks, anyone using lecithin in any form should be aware that it is high in

phosphorus. That's a necessary mineral, and is wonderful for those with " itis "

problems stemming from calcium deposits, as well as being " brain food " .

However, it's possible that over consumption could lead to a lower than normal

calcium.

When you get a blood test these days you must ASK for a phosphorus to be done as

well. Up to the early 90s, a phos level was routine. Then Medicare decided it

was not necessary, and all the insurance companies followed suit. It will be

covered under your insurance, but you must ask for it.

The ideal CA/P ratio is for CA to be 2.5 x the P. Ideal would be CA=10, P=4.5.

Off and running,

Sharon

> Sharon, what were your HDL, LDL, and triglyceride counts - will you share?

>

> Thank you,

> Nina

>

> Re: Soy

>

> I'll chime in with a " me, too " on lecithin, which I've used for many years.

> I may have a tendency toward gallbladder problems, and am convinced that my

> use of lecithin is what keeps the bile flowing.

>

> My cholesterol has been creeping up over the years, as it should, and my

> last bloodwork in March of '08 showed a count of 235. My doc said he wasn't

> going to put me on statins (Fat chance he'd have with that!!), because my

> HDL was so high, and my LDL, so low.

> I credit the lecithin with this positive report also.

>

> Sharon (starshar)

>

>

> Re: Soy

>

>

>> That is my assessment also.

>>

>> Alobar

>>

>> On 11/18/08, sol <solbun@...> wrote:

>>> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

>>> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

>>> apply to lecithin.

>>>

>>> sol

[Guest guest]

Sharon, I've been eating a whole-grain, bean and vegetable diet for 23

years, with very few animal products (just fish from time to time). My total

cholesterol was in the area of 165 for many years. With the addition of VCO,

it shot up. But my triglycerides this time were 45 - they had been higher,

maybe around 60-80, but I started adding in some sesame tahini, and they

came down further. So it's not " carbs, " per se, that is hiking up your

levels. Do these carbs include simple sugars and refined flours, or flours

in general? These are processed differently than whole grains. They will

raise your triglycerides and probably everything else.

Anyway, thank you for posting.

Nina

Re: Soy

>

> I'll chime in with a " me, too " on lecithin, which I've used for many

years.

> I may have a tendency toward gallbladder problems, and am convinced that

my

> use of lecithin is what keeps the bile flowing.

>

> My cholesterol has been creeping up over the years, as it should, and my

> last bloodwork in March of '08 showed a count of 235. My doc said he

wasn't

> going to put me on statins (Fat chance he'd have with that!!), because my

> HDL was so high, and my LDL, so low.

> I credit the lecithin with this positive report also.

>

> Sharon (starshar)

>

>

> Re: Soy

>

>

>> That is my assessment also.

>>

>> Alobar

>>

>> On 11/18/08, sol <solbun@...> wrote:

>>> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

>>> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those considerations

>>> apply to lecithin.

>>>

>>> sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Carbs increase my triglycerides a ton. When I was eating ultra low fat

(20 mg or less per day and that all veg oils or margarine) and vegan I

had triglycerides that were so high my doctor really got after me to

stop eating fat, and didn't believe I was not, LOL. When I went back to

meat eating, the triglycerides dropped 197 pts very quickly.

I " ve been very lax with carb and sugar eating for months now, and under

some recent big awful stresses, I've been really hitting the junk foods.

I need to stop but am finding it difficult to get back on track. As I

beleive I've posted here before, even 2 and a half months of very

strict Atkins induction with no cheating at all, I never lost cravings

for one second.

Guess I " m lucky, my annual health fair blood test included phosphorus is

still routine without asking. I pay out of pocket though. My Sept test

phos was 3.5 and calcium 9.9. 2.5 x 3.5 is 8.75, so I assume my ratio is

ok and I have room to actually increase both cal and phos.

sol

Starshar wrote:

> About 8 months earlier my chol was 198, so those carbs/grains make a BIG

difference----for me. I'm also a self-described " sugarholic " and even though I

sometimes get the upper hand, it's not often enough. (some nutritionist I am!)

>

> When you get a blood test these days you must ASK for a phosphorus to be done

as well. Up to the early 90s, a phos level was routine.

> The ideal CA/P ratio is for CA to be 2.5 x the P. Ideal would be CA=10, P=4.5.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nina Moliver wrote:

> Do these carbs include simple sugars and refined flours, or flours

> in general? These are processed differently than whole grains. They will

> raise your triglycerides and probably everything else.

>

>

In *MY* body a carb is a carb is a carb. ALL are digested into sugar, no

difference between a whole grain and a milled white flour. None.

sol

[Guest guest]

Sol, I can't quarrel with your experience. However, the research, the

statistics and the epidemiology all show that whole grains have very

different effects from refined grains and flour products - opposite, in

fact. My experience shows that too. Of course, you have to know how to cook

and prepare the grains. You should eat them with some salt and some fat,

cook them very well, chew them well, and so forth. A good macrobiotic

cookbook will help here.

Let me know if you want to see some studies. I have them kicking around.

Nina

Re: Soy

Nina Moliver wrote:

> Do these carbs include simple sugars and refined flours, or flours

> in general? These are processed differently than whole grains. They will

> raise your triglycerides and probably everything else.

>

>

In *MY* body a carb is a carb is a carb. ALL are digested into sugar, no

difference between a whole grain and a milled white flour. None.

sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Before 10,000 years ago humans were hunters/gatherers. The fossils

show tall over 6' skeletons, teeth without cavities and over all

healthy people.

Around 10,000 years ago, humans discovered agriculture which means

grains. Fossils after that show humans barely 5' tall and bones

ridden with arthritis, missing teeth and cavities. For me this is an

evidence enough that meat and vegetables are the only healthy foods,

not grains. Small amount of fruit in season is good too.

Barbara

Sol, I can't quarrel with your experience. However, the research,

the

statistics and the epidemiology all show that whole grains have very

different effects from refined grains and flour products - opposite,

in

fact. My experience shows that too. Of course, you have to know how

to cook and prepare the grains. You should eat them with some salt and

some fat, cook them very well, chew them well, and so forth. A good

macrobiotic cookbook will help here.

Let me know if you want to see some studies. I have them kicking

around.

Nina

[Guest guest]

Not to be rude, but been there read that, believed it, done that, got

very ill and have no interest in revisiting those ideas again. At this

point it would be pointless for me to revisit things I've already know

harmed me, and that I have discarded. No offense, but it just was not

healthy for me.

Metabolic Typing suits me, and I've had much recovery since changing my

diet to meat, good fats and very limited veg, nearly no fruit. When I

stick to that, of course when I veer away, as I'm doing now, I quickly

begin to deteriorate again.

Besides statistics and epidemiology have been proven to be extremely

inaccurate and flat out wrong when looking at diet and health issues. I

have read info on that many places. And it convinced me.

sol

Nina Moliver wrote:

> Sol, I can't quarrel with your experience. However, the research, the

> statistics and the epidemiology all show that whole grains have very

> different effects from refined grains and flour products - opposite, in

> fact. My experience shows that too. Of course, you have to know how to cook

> and prepare the grains. You should eat them with some salt and some fat,

> cook them very well, chew them well, and so forth. A good macrobiotic

> cookbook will help here.

>

> Let me know if you want to see some studies. I have them kicking around.

>

> Nina

>

> Re: Soy

>

> Nina Moliver wrote:

>

>> Do these carbs include simple sugars and refined flours, or flours

>> in general? These are processed differently than whole grains. They will

>> raise your triglycerides and probably everything else.

>>

>>

>>

> In *MY* body a carb is a carb is a carb. ALL are digested into sugar, no

> difference between a whole grain and a milled white flour. None.

> sol

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

From: " Lucy Tarallo " <Lucy_tarallo@...>

> what kind of lecithin do you take and how much?

>

copy of my reply to Chantelle:

I keep liquid lecithin (from Fearn) as well as granulated, in the house. The

liquid I put in shakes/smoothies and mix with CNO to make a non-stick pan

'coating'.

The granular form I'll just throw in my mouth, at around 1 T, and wash it down

with water. Sometimes I mix it with certain foods when I know it won't be

noticeable.

HTH,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

> Sharon, I've been eating a whole-grain, bean and vegetable diet for 23

> years, with very few animal products (just fish from time to time). My total

> cholesterol was in the area of 165 for many years. With the addition of VCO,

> it shot up. But my triglycerides this time were 45 - they had been higher,

> maybe around 60-80, but I started adding in some sesame tahini, and they

> came down further. So it's not " carbs, " per se, that is hiking up your

> levels. Do these carbs include simple sugars and refined flours, or flours

> in general? These are processed differently than whole grains. They will

> raise your triglycerides and probably everything else.

>

> Anyway, thank you for posting.

>

> Nina

You're welcome, Nina

I'm in the same catagory as Sol. If I tried to follow your diet I'd be hungry

all the time. Beans really do not agree with me, even experimenting with Beano.

It's not a gas factor, they just make me feel awful.

I " know " I probably shouldn't eat grains at all, but in this household, and this

society I am not able to drum up enough self-discipline to put myself on a

rigorous diet. It would be really tough, since I have to cook for " the man " !

I am 100% from northern European extraction and I'm Type O blood. Even though

the blood typing is questionable at best, if D'Adamo has any of it right, it

would be the O blood types. We are carnivores, and without enough meat we tend

not to do very well.

People whose ancestors hail from the Meditteranean areas probably would thrive

on the diet you describe.

If/when I get myself disciplined I stay away from grains with the exception of

an occasional piece of Ezekial bread. In addition to meats, fish, eggs, etc, I

eat green veggies though I keep the leafy ones low, and if my weight is not a

problem, I'll also eat root veggies.

I could happily live the rest of my life without ever eating a piece of fruit!

It also really helps to get to know one's metabolic picture, and that is not

easy for many people to do.

It sounds as though you've got yourself on the right track--for you, and I envy

you for that!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

You might want to look into Leptin resistance and carb diets.

Alobar

On 11/19/08, Starshar <starshar@...> wrote:

> I'm in the same catagory as Sol. If I tried to follow your diet I'd be hungry

all the time. Beans really do not agree with me, even experimenting with Beano.

It's not a gas factor, they just make me feel awful.

>

> I " know " I probably shouldn't eat grains at all, but in this household, and

this society I am not able to drum up enough self-discipline to put myself on a

rigorous diet. It would be really tough, since I have to cook for " the man " !

>

> I am 100% from northern European extraction and I'm Type O blood. Even though

the blood typing is questionable at best, if D'Adamo has any of it right, it

would be the O blood types. We are carnivores, and without enough meat we tend

not to do very well.

>

> People whose ancestors hail from the Meditteranean areas probably would

thrive on the diet you describe.

>

> If/when I get myself disciplined I stay away from grains with the exception

of an occasional piece of Ezekial bread. In addition to meats, fish, eggs, etc,

I eat green veggies though I keep the leafy ones low, and if my weight is not a

problem, I'll also eat root veggies.

> I could happily live the rest of my life without ever eating a piece of

fruit!

>

> It also really helps to get to know one's metabolic picture, and that is not

easy for many people to do.

>

> It sounds as though you've got yourself on the right track--for you, and I

envy you for that!

>

> Sharon

>

>

[Guest guest]

Starshar wrote:

> I " know " I probably shouldn't eat grains at all, but in this household, and

this society I am not able to drum up enough self-discipline to put myself on a

rigorous diet. It would be really tough, since I have to cook for " the man " !

>

I'm in the same boat. My DH is a big carb eater, and all white stuff

too. He also has reactions to many of the ingredients in commercial

bread and baked goods so I bake for him. It is difficult to keep out of

" his " food.

> I am 100% from northern European extraction and I'm Type O blood. Even though

the blood typing is questionable at best, if D'Adamo has any of it right, it

would be the O blood types. We are carnivores, and without enough meat we tend

not to do very well.

>

Same here, we are very similar.

> If/when I get myself disciplined I stay away from grains with the exception of

an occasional piece of Ezekial bread. In addition to meats, fish, eggs, etc, I

eat green veggies though I keep the leafy ones low, and if my weight is not a

problem, I'll also eat root veggies.

> I could happily live the rest of my life without ever eating a piece of fruit!

>

I'm exactly the same. But I can really overdo the ezekial (I only eat

the one without soy).

> It also really helps to get to know one's metabolic picture, and that is not

easy for many people to do.

>

It takes some work to find one's metabolic type, some reading and

research and experimentation. I find the great majority of people just

want somebody to tell them what to do. So they choose a diet opinion and

go with it, without finding out if it suits them. And since the wrong

diet for one's metabolic type can take years to have its damage atart

becoming obvious, it isn't that easy to connect the dots so long after

the fact.

People think I'm rude, but it is just that I really have been there done

that with vegetarian and grain based diets, and I'm not interested in

re-visiting it. I'm facing a different direction now, and don't want to

turn and look backwards, and certainly don't want to go backwards. It

is hard enough to undo almost 30 years of wrong diet, particularly when

I don't have one single person in my life or in my aquaintance anymore

who eats the way I need to. I'm surrounded by carb eaters and carbs. It

is a battle for me to resist them. Particularly when I have to make

them for my husband.

sol

[Guest guest]

Sol, what grains were you eating, and how were you preparing them?

Nina

Re: Soy

Starshar wrote:

> I " know " I probably shouldn't eat grains at all, but in this household,

and this society I am not able to drum up enough self-discipline to put

myself on a rigorous diet. It would be really tough, since I have to cook

for " the man " !

>

I'm in the same boat. My DH is a big carb eater, and all white stuff

too. He also has reactions to many of the ingredients in commercial

bread and baked goods so I bake for him. It is difficult to keep out of

" his " food.

> I am 100% from northern European extraction and I'm Type O blood. Even

though the blood typing is questionable at best, if D'Adamo has any of it

right, it would be the O blood types. We are carnivores, and without enough

meat we tend not to do very well.

>

Same here, we are very similar.

> If/when I get myself disciplined I stay away from grains with the

exception of an occasional piece of Ezekial bread. In addition to meats,

fish, eggs, etc, I eat green veggies though I keep the leafy ones low, and

if my weight is not a problem, I'll also eat root veggies.

> I could happily live the rest of my life without ever eating a piece of

fruit!

>

I'm exactly the same. But I can really overdo the ezekial (I only eat

the one without soy).

> It also really helps to get to know one's metabolic picture, and that is

not easy for many people to do.

>

It takes some work to find one's metabolic type, some reading and

research and experimentation. I find the great majority of people just

want somebody to tell them what to do. So they choose a diet opinion and

go with it, without finding out if it suits them. And since the wrong

diet for one's metabolic type can take years to have its damage atart

becoming obvious, it isn't that easy to connect the dots so long after

the fact.

People think I'm rude, but it is just that I really have been there done

that with vegetarian and grain based diets, and I'm not interested in

re-visiting it. I'm facing a different direction now, and don't want to

turn and look backwards, and certainly don't want to go backwards. It

is hard enough to undo almost 30 years of wrong diet, particularly when

I don't have one single person in my life or in my aquaintance anymore

who eats the way I need to. I'm surrounded by carb eaters and carbs. It

is a battle for me to resist them. Particularly when I have to make

them for my husband.

sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I have read parts of Rosedale's book, but his diet is too low in animal

fat and protein for me. And too high in fruits as I recall. I should

read it again.

But doesn't he say leptin resistance and cravings leave in a short time

if you are on his diet?

In the low carb diet world this is such a common assumption, I hear it

constantly that cravings leave in a couple weeks if one is strict with

staying off the carbs on whatever eating plan is being touted. But my

carb cravings have never left, ever.

I have to assume that people just don't believe I've been strict and

have not cheated at all. Two and a half months Atkins induction, 100%

strict compliance did not reduce or eliminate carb cravings for me. I

have found that as long as I have these strong cravings I will

eventually slip.

Metabolic typing says that carb cravings can come from not having enough

of the right carbs, as well as from eating too much, but that is a very

slippery slope for me, and so far I keep losing my footing on it and

sliding right back down into eating not only carbs, but sugar.

So far I've not slipped deeply enough, long enough to go back to the

very high triglycerides I used to have, so I take small comfort in that.

My fasting blood sugar is ok and my hypoglycemia is also mostly under

control. By definitions I've read I am " pre-diabetic " , so this isn't

just a preference for me, I NEED to be high protein, high fat, and low

carb (Dr. Bernstein's diet for diabetes). I believe I read that Dr.

Bernstein himself hasn't eaten fruit for several decades.

oops, I've gone on too long, again,

sol

Alobar wrote:

> You might want to look into Leptin resistance and carb diets.

>

> Alobar

>

[Guest guest]

Whole grains, the whole gamut, but most recently last time I tried any

grains again deliberately in my diet (a few years ago) I was preparing

them by the instructions and recipes in Enig's book. (Also have

read Sally Fallon's and Enig's cookbook) Soaking them, whole grain

sourdough bread (24 hr at least) with my own Kefir, and so on. They

still did not agree with me, set off blood sugar surges and hypoglycemic

attacks, made cravings worse, and on and on.

I even did two very strict trials of gluten free, and those were a worse

disaster, bean flours and so on REALLY do not agree with me, and set off

IBS horribly.

sol

Nina Moliver wrote:

> Sol, what grains were you eating, and how were you preparing them?

>

> Nina

>

>

[Guest guest]

Very interesting to me. How old are you Sharon?

chatnelle

On 11/19/08 9:44 AM, " Starshar " <starshar@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Just looked 'em up; not as great as I thought.

>

> Total Chol=238

> HDL=66 (very good)

> LDL=148 (should be less than 130, and ideally around 100)

> but

> Chol/HDLC ratio= 3.6 and the recommendation is " less than 5 "

> Trig=113

>

> This was from last March, and my diet had " gone to hell " with far more carbs

> than I've been eating in a long time (and the scale is registering that, too)

>

> About 8 months earlier my chol was 198, so those carbs/grains make a BIG

> difference----for me. I'm also a self-described " sugarholic " and even though I

> sometimes get the upper hand, it's not often enough. (some nutritionist I am!)

>

> BTW, folks, anyone using lecithin in any form should be aware that it is high

> in phosphorus. That's a necessary mineral, and is wonderful for those with

> " itis " problems stemming from calcium deposits, as well as being " brain food " .

> However, it's possible that over consumption could lead to a lower than normal

> calcium.

>

> When you get a blood test these days you must ASK for a phosphorus to be done

> as well. Up to the early 90s, a phos level was routine. Then Medicare decided

> it was not necessary, and all the insurance companies followed suit. It will

> be covered under your insurance, but you must ask for it.

>

> The ideal CA/P ratio is for CA to be 2.5 x the P. Ideal would be CA=10, P=4.5.

>

> Off and running,

>

> Sharon

>

>> > Sharon, what were your HDL, LDL, and triglyceride counts - will you share?

>> >

>> > Thank you,

>> > Nina

>> >

>> > Re: Soy

>> >

>> > I'll chime in with a " me, too " on lecithin, which I've used for many years.

>> > I may have a tendency toward gallbladder problems, and am convinced that my

>> > use of lecithin is what keeps the bile flowing.

>> >

>> > My cholesterol has been creeping up over the years, as it should, and my

>> > last bloodwork in March of '08 showed a count of 235. My doc said he wasn't

>> > going to put me on statins (Fat chance he'd have with that!!), because my

>> > HDL was so high, and my LDL, so low.

>> > I credit the lecithin with this positive report also.

>> >

>> > Sharon (starshar)

>> >

>> >

>> > Re: Soy

>> >

>> >

>>> >> That is my assessment also.

>>> >>

>>> >> Alobar

>>> >>

>>> >> On 11/18/08, sol <solbun@...

>>> <mailto:solbun%40sweetwaterhsa.com> > wrote:

>>>> >>> Yes, and I agree with all the WAP info, BUT, lecithin is not a " soy

>>>> >>> food " and I have not seen any evidence that any of those

>>>> considerations

>>>> >>> apply to lecithin.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> sol

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sol, you have mentioned " the whole gamut, " and that doesn't help me. The

specifics I have seen from you and others so far include:

- Sourdough bread. This is a flour product.

- Bean flours. This is a flour product.

- Ezekiel bread. This is *extremely* difficult to digest. It consists of

raw, sprouted grains. It's like lead in the intestines. It is not even

salted, much less cooked.

I haven't seen the recipes in Enig's book, but I do know that she is

not a whole grain expert or macrobiotic chef. It kind of strikes me like

turning to Grover Norquist to figure out how to manage a government.

Any other specifics on the grains you have consumed would be helpful.

Thank you,

Nina

Re: Soy

Whole grains, the whole gamut, but most recently last time I tried any

grains again deliberately in my diet (a few years ago) I was preparing

them by the instructions and recipes in Enig's book. (Also have

read Sally Fallon's and Enig's cookbook) Soaking them, whole grain

sourdough bread (24 hr at least) with my own Kefir, and so on. They

still did not agree with me, set off blood sugar surges and hypoglycemic

attacks, made cravings worse, and on and on.

I even did two very strict trials of gluten free, and those were a worse

disaster, bean flours and so on REALLY do not agree with me, and set off

IBS horribly.

sol

Nina Moliver wrote:

> Sol, what grains were you eating, and how were you preparing them?

>

> Nina

>

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

If I ate this way I would never, ever poop. A healthy poop is well-formed,

mostly odorless, and shaped like a very large banana. Sorry to get so gross

on this list.

Nothing curbs my cravings like coconut oil.

Nina

Re: Soy

I have read parts of Rosedale's book, but his diet is too low in animal

fat and protein for me. And too high in fruits as I recall. I should

read it again.

But doesn't he say leptin resistance and cravings leave in a short time

if you are on his diet?

In the low carb diet world this is such a common assumption, I hear it

constantly that cravings leave in a couple weeks if one is strict with

staying off the carbs on whatever eating plan is being touted. But my

carb cravings have never left, ever.

I have to assume that people just don't believe I've been strict and

have not cheated at all. Two and a half months Atkins induction, 100%

strict compliance did not reduce or eliminate carb cravings for me. I

have found that as long as I have these strong cravings I will

eventually slip.

Metabolic typing says that carb cravings can come from not having enough

of the right carbs, as well as from eating too much, but that is a very

slippery slope for me, and so far I keep losing my footing on it and

sliding right back down into eating not only carbs, but sugar.

So far I've not slipped deeply enough, long enough to go back to the

very high triglycerides I used to have, so I take small comfort in that.

My fasting blood sugar is ok and my hypoglycemia is also mostly under

control. By definitions I've read I am " pre-diabetic " , so this isn't

just a preference for me, I NEED to be high protein, high fat, and low

carb (Dr. Bernstein's diet for diabetes). I believe I read that Dr.

Bernstein himself hasn't eaten fruit for several decades.

oops, I've gone on too long, again,

sol

Alobar wrote:

> You might want to look into Leptin resistance and carb diets.

>

> Alobar

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

To me, my life and health take far greater priority than what someone

else wants to eat. If I had a mate who insisted on a starchy diet, I

would inform her that I won't cook or buy the carbs. I will cook

food which is good for me and if she does not like it, she is free to

make her own meals and shop for the food. I'd also be sure my mate's

life insurance policy was paid up, and I'd tell her why I wanted the

life insurance policy paid up.

In all the relationships I have been in since ~1980, I prepared my own

food and my girlfriend or wife prepared her own food. We would sample

each others food, sometimes, and learn to prepare foods we normally

did not eat. We went shopping together so neither one of us had to

buy things they did not use (one of my girlfriends could not pick out

a decent tomato, ear of corn, or apple because she never grew crops at

home).

Back then, I ate a bad diet, but it was the bad diet I chose, not one

which was foisted upon me. My bad diets improved over the years, but

I was still addicted to sugary snacks.

I cook food the way I like it. I'd much rather make my own meals

than eat in most restaurants, unless I am getting some foods which are

difficult to prepare at home, like sushi.

Even before I developed a good diet, I was strongly urging all my

friends to do all their own meal prep. I feel that people can teach

themselves how to cook and what to cook thru practice, mistakes, and

learning what foods are most suitable for each person, rather than

eating food which another prepares.

Alobar

On 11/20/08, sol <solbun@...> wrote:

> Starshar wrote:

> > I " know " I probably shouldn't eat grains at all, but in this household, and

this society I am not able to drum up enough self-discipline to put myself on a

rigorous diet. It would be really tough, since I have to cook for " the man " !

> >

>

> I'm in the same boat. My DH is a big carb eater, and all white stuff

> too. He also has reactions to many of the ingredients in commercial

> bread and baked goods so I bake for him. It is difficult to keep out of

> " his " food.

>

> > I am 100% from northern European extraction and I'm Type O blood. Even

though the blood typing is questionable at best, if D'Adamo has any of it right,

it would be the O blood types. We are carnivores, and without enough meat we

tend not to do very well.

> >

>

> Same here, we are very similar.

>

> > If/when I get myself disciplined I stay away from grains with the exception

of an occasional piece of Ezekial bread. In addition to meats, fish, eggs, etc,

I eat green veggies though I keep the leafy ones low, and if my weight is not a

problem, I'll also eat root veggies.

> > I could happily live the rest of my life without ever eating a piece of

fruit!

> >

>

> I'm exactly the same. But I can really overdo the ezekial (I only eat

> the one without soy).

>

> > It also really helps to get to know one's metabolic picture, and that is not

easy for many people to do.

> >

>

> It takes some work to find one's metabolic type, some reading and

> research and experimentation. I find the great majority of people just

> want somebody to tell them what to do. So they choose a diet opinion and

> go with it, without finding out if it suits them. And since the wrong

> diet for one's metabolic type can take years to have its damage atart

> becoming obvious, it isn't that easy to connect the dots so long after

> the fact.

>

> People think I'm rude, but it is just that I really have been there done

> that with vegetarian and grain based diets, and I'm not interested in

> re-visiting it. I'm facing a different direction now, and don't want to

> turn and look backwards, and certainly don't want to go backwards. It

> is hard enough to undo almost 30 years of wrong diet, particularly when

> I don't have one single person in my life or in my aquaintance anymore

> who eats the way I need to. I'm surrounded by carb eaters and carbs. It

> is a battle for me to resist them. Particularly when I have to make

> them for my husband.

>

> sol

>

>

[Guest guest]

So how do you prepare/eat your grains, and which grains do you eat? Can

I take it you are macrobiotic in your eating habits?

It would be better if you describe your own way with grains, and I can

tell you if I have ever eaten anything like it. I don't really see what

you are trying to get at by saying some things are flours. A whole grain

ground into flour is still a whole grain, and a whole bean ground into

flour is still a bean.

FWIW, ezekial bread does have sea salt, and IS cooked. I just contacted

the Food for Life company and their breads are baked. Not raw. I have

no trouble digesting it, I just have to be careful because it IS still

carbs.

sol

Nina Moliver wrote:

> Sol, you have mentioned " the whole gamut, " and that doesn't help me. The

> specifics I have seen from you and others so far include:

>

> - Sourdough bread. This is a flour product.

> - Bean flours. This is a flour product.

> - Ezekiel bread. This is *extremely* difficult to digest. It consists of

> raw, sprouted grains. It's like lead in the intestines. It is not even

> salted, much less cooked.

>