Guest guest Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Sorry you went through this, Rosie. Believe me, you're not alone. I know dozens of benzo people who became suicidal on these drugs. Ashton is well known in the benzo world. She has people cross over to valium to taper off cause it has a long half life and is available in small dosages. However the crossover from klonopin to valium does not work for some people and as klonopin is twenty times stronger than valium, it is hard to get off by shaving the pill with a razor blade. That is why I am trying to tell people about the water titration method if they are interested in getting off their benzos with minimal withdrawal symptoms. Glad you are doing better. I am too. If I ever see another CFIDS specialist and they tell me to take klonopin, I will have a few choice things to say about that idea. Helen > Hi Helen, > Twelve months ago I became depressed for the first time. All the > antidepressants I was given reacted badly and I was put on clonazepam > (klonopin) for 4 weeks and later on diazepam. Both were a very bad idea > and reduced me to suicidal. I got myself off the diazepam which had > taken over from the clonazepam using Ashtons protocol (if you > put her name in a search engine it should come up). > > Interestingly she says that 0.5mg of clonazepam is equivalent to 10 mg > of diazepam, which is an awful lot. She suggests switching from any > benzo to it's equivalent dose of diazepam because the titration of the > latter is smaller and the half life longer, so withdrawal is smoother. > > I can remember reading a bit about Stevie Nicks saying it was very much > easier to get off cocaine than klonopin, those benzos are horrid. Mind > you you really notice tbe difference for the better once they are out of > your system, so it's very much worth the withdrawal. > > Rosie > Subject: klonopin > > > > I was put on klonopin for insomnia. They say it's not addictive and > it's not in the sense you don't crave it, but it creates dependency > nonetheless. It can also cause depression which hit me hard and > getting off it was terrible. I learned a water titration method which > I share with anyone interested, it allows you to make very small cuts > by crushing your pill and putting it in suspension in water. > > Helen > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with > each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any > treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Yes, everyone is different re chemicals, that is very true. A doctor told me 50% of people can taper off a benzo gradually without undue problems, but I was in the other 50%. Helen > While I don't disagree that it is hard to get off klonopin, I have heard from someone who is having a hard time and has researched this a lot, that it is much easier for some people, and more difficult for others. Also, I have taken it for 6 or 7 years now and have never been the least bit depressed. So it is not an absolute. > > Doris > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 : See the method I posted for Will. And please work with a doctor. This method was devised by an engineer, not a doctor. I worked with a doctor for my entire withdrawal. If you join benzo at , there is a list of benzowise doctors in the files area. best of luck to you and feel free to write me offlist if you want, Helen > > > I was put on klonopin for insomnia. They say it's not addictive and > it's not in the sense you don't crave it, but it creates dependency > nonetheless. It can also cause depression which hit me hard and > getting off it was terrible. I learned a water titration method which > I share with anyone interested, it allows you to make very small cuts > by crushing your pill and putting it in suspension in water. > > Helen > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 This drug worked for me very well at first............ You would not want to hear what happened to me with this drug..and I don't feel I can say either. I was on this drug until January and feeling just a slight improvement each day now was the right time to cut back on 'the drugs'. I did just cut back gradually for a few days at a time until none...That was the best feeling I had had for a long time having already kicked the anti-depressants I started to feel in control of my life again.I am sure the natural supplements I take have made a huge difference. It has worked ok for me but I still appreciate these drugs can work ok for others. Hugs Dianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I've heard bad things about klonipin for some people. I have to say I take temezapem for sleep ever since getting lyme, and sometimes I overuse it (for me). I find that I do best when I fall asleep by some other means (I have an LED device that helps, and occasionally take a smidge of melatonin) and then use it to fall BACK asleep. Sometimes when I am very keyed up, wired, anxious, or whatever, I will use it more than that, and that's when I find myself getting somewhat depressed. My conclusion is that it screws up some stage of sleep, and that leads to the depression, and that if you get even some normal sleep, it won't. I could be wrong, but it seems to be so in my case. If, a few nights in a row, I take it both to fall asleep and to fall back asleep, even if in small amounts (I never take a whole capsule), I feel depressed the next day. I notice a distinct difference. Now I understand klonipin is the worst of all the benzos, but I just thought I would mention this. I feel I've been overusing the temezapem myself, for what works best for me is once a night, a small amount, whenever I wake up somehwere between 3-5, depending when I went to sleep. BTW I have heard from others that the infrared in the LED devices also helps them relax and sleep. > > > > > > I was put on klonopin for insomnia. They say it's not addictive and > > it's not in the sense you don't crave it, but it creates dependency > > nonetheless. It can also cause depression which hit me hard and > > getting off it was terrible. I learned a water titration method > which > > I share with anyone interested, it allows you to make very small > cuts > > by crushing your pill and putting it in suspension in water. > > > > Helen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences > with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested > in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I am also wondering--Kurt explained to me about drugs and p450, and the subsets of it that detoxify drugs. We all are different. Perhaps those having the worst trouble on klonipin actually had much higher blood levels than most, because their liver p450 enzymes were metabolizing it very slowly. WHereas fast metabolizers of a drug, get lower amounts. Just a thought. > Hi all, > > A word of warning about Klonopin. My friend's doctor has had her on this > drug for years. Recently she was depressed (She has hashimoto's disease - her > thyroid produces no hormone). She went to the doc and found she needed a > higher dose of thyroid. This in itself will depress you. > > Anyway, he doubled her Klonopin. She went to dinner with her hubby and had > 2 glasses of wine. Then she passed out cold - she was non- responsive. They > took her to the emergency room. They told her that, at that dose of > Klonopin, any alcohol at all can put you in a coma! > > I hope they file a complaint on that doctor. He could have killed her. > > I know most of you probably can't drink, but if you are on Klonopin and must > have a drink, do it several hours apart. And ask your doctor or pharmacist > about this. > > Sincerely, > > Jody J. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 See Cheney on Klonopin: http://www.virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids/medical/klonopin.html Anyone know if he's changed his mind about this? Kathy F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 The benzos sedate the digestive and immune systems as well as the rest of the nervous system. I think this is a primary reason to find alternative treatments. For years I depended on benzos. The important thing to remember is that benzos are anti-anxiety meds, and not true sleep inducers. They stimulate GABA release, which has a calming effect on the CNS. If you need benzos to sleep, you have a primary anxiety problem. And co-infections probably have contributed, worsening a pre-existent state. If you can solve the anxiety, you can probably sleep. But you have to solve the anxiety 24x7, not just for a few hours at night. In order to get off benzos, you have two choices. 1. replace them with something else; 2. solve the original cause and eliminate the need for them. I tried 1 and found that sedating my self with any other drug or herb or hormone (melatonin) had side-effects and was not a long-term solution. Just dodging the bullets. Sooner or later you have to work through 2 to fix the problem. And to fix 2 you have to solve ALL anxiety and tension in your life, AND find a way to re-learn to relax while going to sleep, even when you don't feel well or have pain or had stress in the day. And this is hard with co-infections because they aggravate any anxiety/tension you feel. But it is possible, I am evidence of that. I was the worst of the worst cases. I had absolute insomnia for 7 years with only one period of remission for about 6 months when I first went on abx. And it just got worse and worse. I would have died without the benzos. I realized that I was failing at finding the cause. So I focused on lots of holistic changes, a LOT of them over about a year long period, and that finally released the stress/tension response to the co-infection toxins and allowed me to sleep naturally again. And getting off the benzos improved my digestion immediately, and my immune system came back to life. I believe the better sleeps is allowing a more natural healing process to progress now. And this holistic approach included adding minerals (the salt/c protocol) which were important, going through 9 months of deep-level emotional processing, used a guided anti-anxiety meditation for about 6 months (purchased from www.panic-anxiety.com <http://www.panic-anxiety.com/> ), and using a hot pack around the neck 24x7 for relaxation, which was critical. Also, I addressed my mental hyperactivity (a form of ADD) using meditation methods I created to help re-learn how to have balanced brain usage, and that was very important. I eventually re-trained my body and I now can relax again, and even have slept during the day sometimes, which I have not ever done before in my adult life. I know now that I have finally started to 'overcome' a life-long problem. And I believe the solution is tied to learning 24x7 relaxation and re-training the mind-body to rest. I believe one of the handicaps we all face with this disease (or these diseases if you believe there are more than one), is the modern medical paradigm of 'reductionism' in which we analyze and study the minute details of whatever we can measure, and generate medical 'factiods' from that and then try to find a treatment from those factoids. Sort of like the blind men and the elephant. My own improvement only started when I decided to start addressing the whole elephant, and that required a holistic approach. --Kurt Re: klonopin I've heard bad things about klonipin for some people. I have to say I take temezapem for sleep ever since getting lyme, and sometimes I overuse it (for me). I find that I do best when I fall asleep by some other means (I have an LED device that helps, and occasionally take a smidge of melatonin) and then use it to fall BACK asleep. Sometimes when I am very keyed up, wired, anxious, or whatever, I will use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Not sure what you mean by the benzos " sedate " the immune system. Are you suggesting the benzos impair immune function? The problem for me with chronic lyme is that my entire neurological system is hair trigger. Sleep is difficult. My bladder (neurogenic) is much more touchy. My anxiety levels are higher. Sounds bother me more etc. I find that temezapem quiets it all...but as I discovered, if I use it the whole night, I'm screwed. I feel groggy and depressed and just don't feel like me. But if I don't use it at all, more bladder problems, more haywire feelings, and horrible fatigue. I'm best if I fall asleep on my own through other methods and then when I wake (often if one of my earplugs falls out--NYC is never quiet and I'm probably awakened by some horn or siren or something), take some eto go back to sleep, I'm a bit groggy in the morning, but seem to have achieved some balance between the two poles. It's the best I can do until I conquer lyme. Also, genetically, my mother had a bad anxiety disorder and agorophobia, and my father was phobic in different ways, so I feel my genetic setpoint is a bit high--that I actually do well with very judicious supplementation of gaba receptor drugs. Long before lyme, I remember sometimes getting into panics myself, especially at night, and having to calm myself with spiritual books etc, sometimes for hours. That never happens anymore. So we all have our individual genetics. Perhaps even if I got over lyme, and was pretty healthy, I might take a bit of this pill a few times a week. > The benzos sedate the digestive and immune systems as well as the rest > of the nervous system. I think this is a primary reason to find > alternative treatments. For years I depended on benzos. The important > thing to remember is that benzos are anti-anxiety meds, and not true > sleep inducers. They stimulate GABA release, which has a calming effect > on the CNS. If you need benzos to sleep, you have a primary anxiety > problem. And co-infections probably have contributed, worsening a > pre-existent state. If you can solve the anxiety, you can probably > sleep. But you have to solve the anxiety 24x7, not just for a few hours > at night. > > In order to get off benzos, you have two choices. 1. replace them with > something else; 2. solve the original cause and eliminate the need for > them. I tried 1 and found that sedating my self with any other drug or > herb or hormone (melatonin) had side-effects and was not a long-term > solution. Just dodging the bullets. Sooner or later you have to work > through 2 to fix the problem. > > And to fix 2 you have to solve ALL anxiety and tension in your life, AND > find a way to re-learn to relax while going to sleep, even when you > don't feel well or have pain or had stress in the day. And this is hard > with co-infections because they aggravate any anxiety/tension you feel. > But it is possible, I am evidence of that. I was the worst of the worst > cases. I had absolute insomnia for 7 years with only one period of > remission for about 6 months when I first went on abx. And it just got > worse and worse. I would have died without the benzos. I realized that > I was failing at finding the cause. So I focused on lots of holistic > changes, a LOT of them over about a year long period, and that finally > released the stress/tension response to the co-infection toxins and > allowed me to sleep naturally again. And getting off the benzos > improved my digestion immediately, and my immune system came back to > life. I believe the better sleeps is allowing a more natural healing > process to progress now. > > And this holistic approach included adding minerals (the salt/c > protocol) which were important, going through 9 months of deep-level > emotional processing, used a guided anti-anxiety meditation for about 6 > months (purchased from www.panic-anxiety.com > <http://www.panic-anxiety.com/> ), and using a hot pack around the neck > 24x7 for relaxation, which was critical. Also, I addressed my mental > hyperactivity (a form of ADD) using meditation methods I created to help > re-learn how to have balanced brain usage, and that was very important. > I eventually re-trained my body and I now can relax again, and even have > slept during the day sometimes, which I have not ever done before in my > adult life. I know now that I have finally started to 'overcome' a > life-long problem. And I believe the solution is tied to learning 24x7 > relaxation and re-training the mind-body to rest. > > I believe one of the handicaps we all face with this disease (or these > diseases if you believe there are more than one), is the modern medical > paradigm of 'reductionism' in which we analyze and study the minute > details of whatever we can measure, and generate medical 'factiods' from > that and then try to find a treatment from those factoids. Sort of like > the blind men and the elephant. My own improvement only started when I > decided to start addressing the whole elephant, and that required a > holistic approach. > > --Kurt > > Re: klonopin > > > I've heard bad things about klonipin for some people. I have to say I > take temezapem for sleep ever since getting lyme, and sometimes I > overuse it (for me). I find that I do best when I fall asleep by some > other means (I have an LED device that helps, and occasionally take a > smidge of melatonin) and then use it to fall BACK asleep. Sometimes > when I am very keyed up, wired, anxious, or whatever, I will use it > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Kurt said: " And to fix 2 you have to solve ALL anxiety and tension in your life, AND find a way to re-learn to relax while going to sleep, even when you don't feel well or have pain or had stress in the day. And this is hard with co-infections because they aggravate any anxiety/tension you feel. But it is possible... " I have found myself so tense at night when I lay down that the tension in my neck and shoulders are tighter all night long, creating more tightness when I awaken. I have to remind myself to lay there and relax those neck, shoulder and back muscles and gently stretch them before I go to sleep or I am a mess all night and the next day! Oh, another add to the doctor note~she said I was depressed and suggested antidepressants. I told her, who wouldn't be depressed with this illness and all the stress I've gone through the past four years with 7 family members dying, a husband with clinical depression, diabetes 2, a fractious teenager (now doing well), purging and moving three households and helping a 73-yr old father-in-law with FMS/CFS/depression/diabetes~but that I don't have clinical depression, just FMS/CFS. Her answer is that antidepressants help our ailment~I don't want to feel loopy or have the side effects so will add St. 's Wort to all the other supplements I am supposed to take to feel better (if my stomach can handle another bunch of pills to what I already take). in La Selva Beach, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 WHen I hear that you have fms/cfs and your father in law has it too, I figure you both have lyme. Not a lot is known about the interactions of immune/nervous systems, but antidepressants might help with chronic infections, directly, for all we know. ANtipsychotics reduce viral replication in schizophrenia. I wouldnt' take them, but they might help many people. I'm too sensitive to drugs myself. > Oh, another add to the doctor note~she said I was depressed and suggested antidepressants. I told her, who wouldn't be depressed with this illness and all the stress I've gone through the past four years with 7 family members dying, a husband with clinical depression, diabetes 2, a fractious teenager (now doing well), purging and moving three households and helping a 73-yr old father-in- law with FMS/CFS/depression/diabetes~but that I don't have clinical depression, just FMS/CFS. Her answer is that antidepressants help our ailment~I don't want to feel loopy or have the side effects so will add St. 's Wort to all the other supplements I am supposed to take to feel better (if my stomach can handle another bunch of pills to what I already take). in La Selva Beach, CA > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 -Yes, I think so too, I wish doctors would test for this before they put you on drugs. Figures in bad reactions to SSRIs, also, which possibly could be foreseen with a test. Helen -- In , " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@h...> wrote: > > I am also wondering--Kurt explained to me about drugs and p450, and > the subsets of it that detoxify drugs. We all are different. Perhaps > those having the worst trouble on klonipin actually had much higher > blood levels than most, because their liver p450 enzymes were > metabolizing it very slowly. WHereas fast metabolizers of a drug, get > lower amounts. Just a thought. > > > > Hi all, > > > > A word of warning about Klonopin. My friend's doctor has had her > on this > > drug for years. Recently she was depressed (She has hashimoto's > disease - her > > thyroid produces no hormone). She went to the doc and found she > needed a > > higher dose of thyroid. This in itself will depress you. > > > > Anyway, he doubled her Klonopin. She went to dinner with her > hubby and had > > 2 glasses of wine. Then she passed out cold - she was non- > responsive. They > > took her to the emergency room. They told her that, at that dose > of > > Klonopin, any alcohol at all can put you in a coma! > > > > I hope they file a complaint on that doctor. He could have killed > her. > > > > I know most of you probably can't drink, but if you are on Klonopin > and must > > have a drink, do it several hours apart. And ask your doctor or > pharmacist > > about this. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Jody J. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 My daughter (college student with CFIDS-Lyme) had very bad RLS with Tourette type problems, and they both went away, even the Tourettes, when she went on the Feingold diet. That means removing all artificial ingredients from the diet. (www.feingold.org <http://www.feingold.org/> ). Our guess was that it was really a liver detox issue, because Feingold reduces the tox load. Also, she went off MSG, which helped a lot (that was HARD to accomplish, but Feingold helped). She had Tourettes from about age 4 until age 18 (when she went on Feingold), and the RLS from about age 12 to 18. She still has the CFIDS-Lyme but usually is free of the RLS. She occasionally gets a little RLS with a bad virus still, but very rarely, and it does not last long. --Kurt klonopin I take 2 mg to sleep at night and prevent restless leg problems. I probably am addicted but I want to function and this is the only drug along with 50 mg of elivil that helps me. Also are there any machines that we can buy to releive headaches. My chiropractor used the ultrasound on me yesterday and the headache went away. I have the alpha stim machine and that helps to relax me. I wonder if there are any low ultrasound devices we can buy? or electro stim? joyce kaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 There is no test yet for the p450 enzyme problems, but I believe there is one in clinical testing. Right now it is a clinical diagnosis, based on a history of reactions to multiple drugs that fall into one of the enzyme categories. I think the solution is to test all drugs at low dose first. There should be micro test-doses available for every drug that is processed by the liver, every doctor should do this with every new prescription IMHO. Maybe someday. Re: Klonopin -Yes, I think so too, I wish doctors would test for this before they put you on drugs. Figures in bad reactions to SSRIs, also, which possibly could be foreseen with a test. Helen -- In , " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@h...> wrote: > > I am also wondering--Kurt explained to me about drugs and p450, and > the subsets of it that detoxify drugs. We all are different. Perhaps > those having the worst trouble on klonipin actually had much higher > blood levels than most, because their liver p450 enzymes were > metabolizing it very slowly. WHereas fast metabolizers of a drug, get > lower amounts. Just a thought. > > > > Hi all, > > > > A word of warning about Klonopin. My friend's doctor has had her > on this > > drug for years. Recently she was depressed (She has hashimoto's > disease - her > > thyroid produces no hormone). She went to the doc and found she > needed a > > higher dose of thyroid. This in itself will depress you. > > > > Anyway, he doubled her Klonopin. She went to dinner with her > hubby and had > > 2 glasses of wine. Then she passed out cold - she was non- > responsive. They > > took her to the emergency room. They told her that, at that dose > of > > Klonopin, any alcohol at all can put you in a coma! > > > > I hope they file a complaint on that doctor. He could have killed > her. > > > > I know most of you probably can't drink, but if you are on Klonopin > and must > > have a drink, do it several hours apart. And ask your doctor or > pharmacist > > about this. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Jody J. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I just don't believe this is true. On the very rare occasion that i have anxiety, klonopin does nothing for it. But mostly, it doesn't do anything to help me get to sleep, which would be the case if you were right and it only helps sleep by treating anxiety. What it DOES do, is allow me to sleep in the right stage. Without it I am in that half awake / half asleep stage all night (there is a name for it but I can't remember it). I walk up feeling like I never got any sleep at all Doris -------------------------------------------------- The important thing to remember is that benzos are anti-anxiety meds, and not true sleep inducers. They stimulate GABA release, which has a calming effect on the CNS. If you need benzos to sleep, you have a primary anxiety problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 i agree with doris. i take clonazepam to sleep, and one of the few problems i *don't* have is anxiety. but i still don't get past stage one sleep, unfortunately. (but without it, i probably would be awake for days!) and like doris, on the rare occasion that i feel anxious about something, the clonazepam makes no difference. --maggie Re: Re: klonopin : : I just don't believe this is true. On the very rare occasion that i have anxiety, klonopin does nothing for it. But mostly, it doesn't do anything to help me get to sleep, which would be the case if you were right and it only helps sleep by treating anxiety. What it DOES do, is allow me to sleep in the right stage. Without it I am in that half awake / half asleep stage all night (there is a name for it but I can't remember it). I walk up feeling like I never got any sleep at all : : Doris : -------------------------------------------------- : The important : thing to remember is that benzos are anti-anxiety meds, and not true : sleep inducers. They stimulate GABA release, which has a calming effect : on the CNS. If you need benzos to sleep, you have a primary anxiety : problem. : : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Maybe it would be more correct to say the short-acting benzos are anti-anxiety meds. But even Klonopin is listed as a drug to treat panic. See http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/klo1214.shtml. I know the doctors often don't describe the benzos as anti-anxiety meds, I was told they were for sleep, and for sedating my symptoms. Also, you may have underlying anxieties that you are not aware of. I got off benzos by working on both automatic/subconscious responses and the conscious responses to stress. But this is a complex area, I don't think anyone fully understands the situation. I can not fully understand why I got better, I did not think I ever would.I just know what I did that finally worked, and it was treating ALL anxiety holistically, including latent anxiety that was deep in my background, and things I do not often think of consciously that still were driving my responses. The hardest part was learning to relax through pain and fatigue, which ordinarily is agitating to me, but even that eventually became possible. This actually may be an explanation for part of this disease, because it seems that some of us just don't tolerate the continual pain and discomforts of these blasted co-infections. then stress builds up, the immune system goes down (a response to stress), and the problems start compounding. Probably not quite that simple, but one way to look at things. Here is another possibility - maybe I found a way to boost my own benzo production through some of the digestive treatments I was following, that also may have contributed to getting off the benzo drugs (benzodiazepine is produced naturally in the digestive system). --Kurt Re: Re: klonopin I just don't believe this is true. On the very rare occasion that i have anxiety, klonopin does nothing for it. But mostly, it doesn't do anything to help me get to sleep, which would be the case if you were right and it only helps sleep by treating anxiety. What it DOES do, is allow me to sleep in the right stage. Without it I am in that half awake / half asleep stage all night (there is a name for it but I can't remember it). I walk up feeling like I never got any sleep at all Doris -------------------------------------------------- The important thing to remember is that benzos are anti-anxiety meds, and not true sleep inducers. They stimulate GABA release, which has a calming effect on the CNS. If you need benzos to sleep, you have a primary anxiety problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 benzos are in a class but each is different. temezapem is definitely a muscle relaxant as well. > I just don't believe this is true. On the very rare occasion that i have anxiety, klonopin does nothing for it. But mostly, it doesn't do anything to help me get to sleep, which would be the case if you were right and it only helps sleep by treating anxiety. What it DOES do, is allow me to sleep in the right stage. Without it I am in that half awake / half asleep stage all night (there is a name for it but I can't remember it). I walk up feeling like I never got any sleep at all > > Doris > -------------------------------------------------- > The important > thing to remember is that benzos are anti-anxiety meds, and not true > sleep inducers. They stimulate GABA release, which has a calming effect > on the CNS. If you need benzos to sleep, you have a primary anxiety > problem. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Hi Helen and , Klonopine has been a Godsend for me too. I have been on it since about 1990, and I have never had to increase the dosage. I have tried a few times to go off it, but what little brain I have left functions so much better when I take Klonopine. And I have fewer episodes of rapid heart beat. Addiction is the least of my worries. Best wishes. Vickie On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:09:00 -0400 " " <retractap@...> writes: > Hi Helen, > > This is really interesting. I have been on klonopin since 1991. > > I had my brain 'mapped' in Dr. Cheney's office in 1997, and it came > out with > no beta waves at all--none. Dr. Cheney and the other doctor in his > office > then were both very puzzled. The waited months before giving me the > > results. They mapped my brain while I was awake and answering > complicated > questions and adding long columns of figures, etc. and it came out > with > some alpha, some theta and some delta waves--but no beta at all. > Since beta > waves are generated when a person is awake and alert, they could not > > understand why I had none and yet I was well able to answer the > questions > and do the arithmetic. I still can't, and their only explanation > was that I > 'compensated very well.' Whatever that means. > > Like you, I have tapered off klonopin and then gone back onto it. > Now I am > just thankful that I have it. My local doctor told me (and so did > Cheney > when I was seeing him) that the klonopin had probably saved me some > permanent brain injury. I do not feel like klonopin is doing me > any harm, > and I do feel like it is helping me (although, of course, I do > realize how > addictive it is. People with diabetes are addicted to insulin > also.) > > Again, what works for some of us doesn't work for others, so I am > not > advising anyone to run out and ask for a prescription for klonopin. > All I > am saying is that it has been a Godsend to me. > > > Re: Tryptophan & sleep > > > Hi Honey: > > One of my best friends from the benzo world came off klonopin too > fast in the first part of her taper, slowed down to a water taper, > and then went to zero about a year ago. Her hair started coming out, > and it continued to come out, the last time I heard from her this > last spring she had lost a third of her formerly thick hair. > > She has CFIDS also, one of the few in the benzo world, and moved to > Chicago last fall to get acupuncture treatments. They seemed to help > for a while, but in the last few months she's gotten too ill to even > get on the computer. It's very upsetting. There have been other > individuals reporting the same thing with hair loss, but no one has > any idea why this happens. > > I went on klonopin for insomnia both times I took it and at first it > worked well for me, then as time went on it didn't and I was just > addicted to it. The first time I went off I took 5HTP for > depression, > was still very depressed and thought it wasn't working, but I was > able to sleep so now I realize it helped. > > The second time I started on L-tryptophan at the beginning of my > taper and have remained on it. My sleep patterns have reverted to > what has been natural for me my entire life, it takes me at least an > hour to fall asleep. Without the tryptophan I'd probably lie there > awake for five hours. > > I didn't have pre-existing anxiety but since I've been on klonopin > and come off twice, I have developed constant anxiety, that I > perceive as free-floating fear in search of any perceived cause to > attach it to, if that makes any sense. I haven't found any effective > way to deal with that yet, although I've tried various things. > > The latest is neurobiofeedback, after I found someone here who does > that. Got my brain mapped and took a quiz there, and my brain shows > areas of asymmetry and too much high beta, I forget what all he > said. > This one area in the right central region is generally different in > color from the rest, and involved in the asymmetry. I've never had a > brain scan although Cheney's office has started writing the code for > brain disease on my insurance forms, not that my insurance company > is > the least bit impressed. > > So I had one brief session of biofeedback last week and I did > surprisingly well at moving blood to my frontal lobes. However when > I > tried to focus just on the right side, I couldn't do it, although I > could focus on the left. So I might indeed have this dysfunctional > right area of the brain. > > It's interesting because I get migraines and if I don't interrupt > them with drugs, they proceed from my neck to an area behind my > right > eye, which feels like it's going to explode. > > At any rate, the biofeedback guy thinks he can help me retrain my > brain waves to a more symmetric pattern and get out of high beta > overdrive, which he perceives as my own distress about my thoughts. > Which sums up what klonopin did to me pretty well. So I've got a bit > of hope there, have two appts next week. > > Helen > > > > > Hi Helen, > > > > I wasn't sure if you wrote this after my reply to Mel, because you > > quoted the original mail, but this made me jump: > > > > > I have seen reports from several individuals about hair loss > while on > > > klonopin or during withdrawal but didn't experience this problem > > > myself. > > > > As I said in my reply, I had significant hair loss from > *something* > > around the time I was taking klonopin, that suddenly stopped, > again > > some time after discontinuing it. I've been looking for a culprit > > to avoid. It's very reassuring to hear someone report this, > albeit > > second-hand, as I've only seen tentative claims on random websites > > before. It'll be a great relief to me if it *was* the klonopin: > > it means I needn't fear the minerals as a cause. Very interesting > if > > this is something you've seen reported often, thanks. > > > > > L-tryptophan, on the other hand, as long as it isn't > contaminated, is > > > a rather benign substance. > > > > Sounds very positive - I had serious anxiety problems (addressed > > currently as I said by valium, but not by klonopin) and appalling > > sleep quality problems. Did it help both for you significantly? > > More so than the benzos? Or do you prefer it even if not as > > effective, because of your bad reaction to benzos? > > > > Honey > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences > with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any > treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 that is exactly my story, Joyce. I fact i though I had written it. I take clonozopan and ambian at night. 1mg of clon. and 1 ambian. I cut them both in half last night, and did manage to sleep. It stopped my restless leg, and I am afraid of that coming .back. but I have heard the the restless leg drug requip works very well. my son is on it. But what are the side effects of that going to be???? I am going to try to get off all these drugs, and get a base line of my condition. I am starting to worry about maybe mold being a problem too where i live. I am in a mobile home that got flooded two years ago with all kinds of crap from surrounding cattle fields and whatever else around here. klonopin I find that it calms down my overexcited brain and allows me to sleep. Also it actually helps my cognition. I have been reducing my dosage and I am down to a little less than 1 mg at night. Is there something better to replace it? I know I am addicted. It stopped my restless leg syndrome. I have been on it for 18 years. joyce _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 > > I find that it calms down my overexcited brain and allows me to sleep. Also it actually helps my cognition. I have been reducing my dosage and I am down to a little less than 1 mg at night. Is there something better to replace it? I know I am addicted. It stopped my restless leg syndrome. I have been on it for 18 years. joyce Klonopin is really still the best choice for this kind of thing. If you have a really really good reason to change the antiseizure/mood stabilizing medications may help, but they all have far worse side effect profiles. Neurontin is probably the most benign - and least effective. You could ask your doctor about this if you wanted to, but try to stick to things either he has experience prescribing or you've talked to a lot of people who take it - there is an awful lot of misinformation about the new drugs in this class being nicer than the old ones, and it is not true. Did any doctor ever think to get an EEG on you? > _________________________________________________________________ > You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i'm Initiative now. > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 If you want to get off, I have posted before that I believe that rotating sleep meds like klonopin, Lunesta, antihistamines is the best way so that you don't get addicted/dependent. I didn't mention Ambien since it is partial benzo, I believe. I have a real good doc who keeps telling me that " your brain gets used to a certain chemical " and therefore becomes less effective, by which I think he means the receptors get used to 'seeing' the same chemical. That is what I would do unless everything else doesn't work besides K. Mike C In , " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@...> wrote: > > > > > > I find that it calms down my overexcited brain and allows me to sleep. Also it actually > helps my cognition. I have been reducing my dosage and I am down to a little less than 1 > mg at night. Is there something better to replace it? I know I am addicted. It stopped my > restless leg syndrome. I have been on it for 18 years. joyce > > Klonopin is really still the best choice for this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Joyce, a large percentage of people who take klonopin become physically dependent on it, and if it is stopped abruptly (even for a day or two), they have severe withdrawal symptoms. If you have not become physically dependent (and a small percentage do not), you'll be just fine stopping abruptly. I was prescribed klonopin and took it for more than 16 years. I didn't know any better and when I became tolerant (taking the same dose did not bring about the desired effects), and the drug was no longer working for me, I stopped it abruptly. I suffered horribly--lots of different symptoms, the worst for me were the headaches and the muscles aches and jerking, and terrible insomnia. Most people say that their withdrawal symptoms are stronger versions of whatever symptoms they first took the benzo to relieve. If you are going to stop or lower the use of or change dosing of any benzo, you should know exactly what you are doing. If you would like to know more about this, please write to me privately at retractap at bellsouth dot net. Re: klonopin If you want to get off, I have posted before that I believe that rotating sleep meds like klonopin, Lunesta, antihistamines is the best way so that you don't get addicted/dependent. I didn't mention Ambien since it is partial benzo, I believe. I have a real good doc who keeps telling me that " your brain gets used to a certain chemical " and therefore becomes less effective, by which I think he means the receptors get used to 'seeing' the same chemical. That is what I would do unless everything else doesn't work besides K. Mike C In , " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@...> wrote: > > > > > > I find that it calms down my overexcited brain and allows me to sleep. Also it actually > helps my cognition. I have been reducing my dosage and I am down to a little less than 1 > mg at night. Is there something better to replace it? I know I am addicted. It stopped my > restless leg syndrome. I have been on it for 18 years. joyce > > Klonopin is really still the best choice for this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi there, Please refer to www.benzo.org.uk for up to date info on all benzos and on tapering safely. BW Rosie Joyce, a large percentage of people who take klonopin become physically dependent on it, and if it is stopped abruptly (even for a day or two), they have severe withdrawal symptoms. If you have not become physically dependent (and a small percentage do not), you'll be just fine stopping abruptly. I was prescribed klonopin and took it for more than 16 years. I didn't know any better and when I became tolerant (taking the same dose did not bring about the desired effects), and the drug was no longer working for me, I stopped it abruptly. I suffered horribly--lots of different symptoms, the worst for me were the headaches and the muscles aches and jerking, and terrible insomnia. Most people say that their withdrawal symptoms are stronger versions of whatever symptoms they first took the benzo to relieve. If you are going to stop or lower the use of or change dosing of any benzo, you should know exactly what you are doing. If you would like to know more about this, please write to me privately at retractap at bellsouth dot net. Re: klonopin If you want to get off, I have posted before that I believe that rotating sleep meds like klonopin, Lunesta, antihistamines is the best way so that you don't get addicted/dependent. I didn't mention Ambien since it is partial benzo, I believe. I have a real good doc who keeps telling me that " your brain gets used to a certain chemical " and therefore becomes less effective, by which I think he means the receptors get used to 'seeing' the same chemical. That is what I would do unless everything else doesn't work besides K. Mike C In <mailto:%40> , " andrewhallcutler " <AndyCutler@...> wrote: > > > > > > I find that it calms down my overexcited brain and allows me to sleep. Also it actually > helps my cognition. I have been reducing my dosage and I am down to a little less than 1 > mg at night. Is there something better to replace it? I know I am addicted. It stopped my > restless leg syndrome. I have been on it for 18 years. joyce > > Klonopin is really still the best choice for this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 " " <retractap@...> wrote: > > Joyce, a large percentage of people who take klonopin become > physically dependent on it, and if it is stopped abruptly > (even for a day or two), they have severe withdrawal symptoms. Klonopin has a high addictive potential and a very very long and slow withdrawal period. Rotating sleep meds does not necessarily get rid of this problem, the rotation just becomes a more complex addiction. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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