Re: thinking of quitting TRT

[Guest guest]

Clomid is not a good long term treatment for low T it has some bad sides one is

floaters in the eyes.

Phil

vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hey Philip,

> > > >

> > > > I'm fairly new to all of this and after being sick for around

> ten

> > > years and

> > > > being told it was all in my head my wife and I decided to try

> and

> > > find out

> > > > why we where having problems having children so my GP ran some

> > > blood work

> > > > and my T levels where 145 (241-827) around four months ago and

> > > this got

> > > > everything going.

> > > >

> > > > He recommended me to go to an Urologist but being we where

> looking

> > > to try to

> > > > get pregnant I decided to see an Endo, we went to a

> reproductive

> > > Endo and a

> > > > urologist to get other opinions the reproductive Endo wanted

> me to

> > > go on

> > > > clomed and urologist wouldn't treat me with HCG and felt that a

> > > range of

> > > > (400) would be good, so I'm sticking with my first Endo I went

> to.

> > > >

> > > > It has been a battle; I have finally convinced her that not

> all the

> > > > information on the WEB is bad especially after I informed her

> that

> > > she was

> > > > over dosing me on HCG, she put me on Ovidrel that was 250ug

> pre-

> > > loaded

> > > > syringes, after looking into it and using it for a couple

> months I

> > > found out

> > > > that is equal to 6500IU of HCG so I'm in the process of

> switching

> > > to Novarel

> > > > and should be receiving it in the mail today. So she is finally

> > > accepting

> > > > that I should be a part of the process.

> > > >

> > > > I'm taking 5gm of Androgel each day I did try Androderm but

> that

> > > didn't work

> > > > out, they kept falling off and left me with red blotches where

> I

> > > used it.

> > > >

> > > > I'm going to be taking 250iu of Novarel.

> > > >

> > > > I also take Levoxyl Tabs 175MCG for the Hypothyroid.

> > > >

> > > > My last numbers:

> > > >

> > > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 722 (241-827 ng/dl)

> > > >

> > > > FREE TESTOSTERONE 158.9 (50-210pg/ml)

> > > >

> > > > ESTRADIOL 48 (10-50pg/ml)

> > > >

> > > > I have an appointment with my doctor in a few weeks and I'm

> going

> > > to discuss

> > > > with her the high E2 levels and what we are going to do about

> that

> > > next.

> > > >

> > > > this I had an MRI of the PIT (Asymmetry of the Pituitary Gland

> on

> > > the Left,

> > > > Cannot Exclude Adenoma) this was inconclusive. My GH is low but

> > > she won't do

> > > > anything with that until I get another MRI done in six months

> so I

> > > need to

> > > > wait until I get that treated. All my other hormone levels

> where

> > > good.

> > > >

> > > > How did they discover you had low cortisol/DHEA, I had an AM

> > > cortisol test

> > > > done 18.9 (5-21 ug/dl) but I still seem to be falling on my but

> > > towards the

> > > > end of the day.

> > > >

> > > > After looking at all the complexities to all of this and being

> > > told from two

> > > > reproductive specialist that the only thing they will do is IVU

> > > not to

> > > > mention the expense of all of that my wife and I have decided

> to

> > > try to

> > > > adopt.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Bill,

I'm interested in what happened after you came off clomid in Feb. 2006 - did

your levels return to being very low, as they had been before? What about your

symptoms - back to normal as well? Do you plan to stay on clomid long-term now?

Thanks,

Ben

williamb11 <no_reply > wrote:

,

I used it from Feb. of 2003 until Feb. of 2006. I had stopped

because I started seeing a new naturalist doc. who wanted to see if

the Clomid had kick-started my pituitary and then tried a topical,

compounded T cream. Since then, I found a new Repro. Endo. in

Boston, at a research hospital, and tried all forms of T - gels,

patch, shots to no avail. The doc is having me start back up with

Clomid tommorrow.

Infertility was never an immediate concern (as I am 38 and no

girlfriend!). However, the Doc. told me yesterday that Clomid will

be excellent for fertility and often what she uses in men if HCG

doesn't take.

Blessings,

Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey Philip,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm fairly new to all of this and after being sick for

around

> > ten

> > > > years and

> > > > > being told it was all in my head my wife and I decided to

try

> > and

> > > > find out

> > > > > why we where having problems having children so my GP ran

some

> > > > blood work

> > > > > and my T levels where 145 (241-827) around four months ago

and

> > > > this got

> > > > > everything going.

> > > > >

> > > > > He recommended me to go to an Urologist but being we where

> > looking

> > > > to try to

> > > > > get pregnant I decided to see an Endo, we went to a

> > reproductive

> > > > Endo and a

> > > > > urologist to get other opinions the reproductive Endo

wanted

> > me to

> > > > go on

> > > > > clomed and urologist wouldn't treat me with HCG and felt

that a

> > > > range of

> > > > > (400) would be good, so I'm sticking with my first Endo I

went

> > to.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been a battle; I have finally convinced her that not

> > all the

> > > > > information on the WEB is bad especially after I informed

her

> > that

> > > > she was

> > > > > over dosing me on HCG, she put me on Ovidrel that was 250ug

> > pre-

> > > > loaded

> > > > > syringes, after looking into it and using it for a couple

> > months I

> > > > found out

> > > > > that is equal to 6500IU of HCG so I'm in the process of

> > switching

> > > > to Novarel

> > > > > and should be receiving it in the mail today. So she is

finally

> > > > accepting

> > > > > that I should be a part of the process.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm taking 5gm of Androgel each day I did try Androderm but

> > that

> > > > didn't work

> > > > > out, they kept falling off and left me with red blotches

where

> > I

> > > > used it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm going to be taking 250iu of Novarel.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also take Levoxyl Tabs 175MCG for the Hypothyroid.

> > > > >

> > > > > My last numbers:

> > > > >

> > > > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 722 (241-827 ng/dl)

> > > > >

> > > > > FREE TESTOSTERONE 158.9 (50-210pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > ESTRADIOL 48 (10-50pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > I have an appointment with my doctor in a few weeks and I'm

> > going

> > > > to discuss

> > > > > with her the high E2 levels and what we are going to do

about

> > that

> > > > next.

> > > > >

> > > > > this I had an MRI of the PIT (Asymmetry of the Pituitary

Gland

> > on

> > > > the Left,

> > > > > Cannot Exclude Adenoma) this was inconclusive. My GH is

low but

> > > > she won't do

> > > > > anything with that until I get another MRI done in six

months

> > so I

> > > > need to

> > > > > wait until I get that treated. All my other hormone levels

> > where

> > > > good.

> > > > >

> > > > > How did they discover you had low cortisol/DHEA, I had an

AM

> > > > cortisol test

> > > > > done 18.9 (5-21 ug/dl) but I still seem to be falling on

my but

> > > > towards the

> > > > > end of the day.

> > > > >

> > > > > After looking at all the complexities to all of this and

being

> > > > told from two

> > > > > reproductive specialist that the only thing they will do

is IVU

> > > > not to

> > > > > mention the expense of all of that my wife and I have

decided

> > to

> > > > try to

> > > > > adopt.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I don't believe there are any long-term Clomid studies for 2nd Hypo.

in men. So, I am unclear where you are getting this scientific data.

Do you know that the longest they ever studied Paxil before FDA

approval was 1 year and for Wellbutrin, it was 44 weeks? Most

studies on most drugs are between 4-8 weeks prior to FDA approval.

There are TONS of people taking those drugs and many others that we

have NO IDEA of long-term benefit or harm.

Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey Philip,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm fairly new to all of this and after being sick for

around

> > ten

> > > > years and

> > > > > being told it was all in my head my wife and I decided to

try

> > and

> > > > find out

> > > > > why we where having problems having children so my GP ran

some

> > > > blood work

> > > > > and my T levels where 145 (241-827) around four months ago

and

> > > > this got

> > > > > everything going.

> > > > >

> > > > > He recommended me to go to an Urologist but being we where

> > looking

> > > > to try to

> > > > > get pregnant I decided to see an Endo, we went to a

> > reproductive

> > > > Endo and a

> > > > > urologist to get other opinions the reproductive Endo

wanted

> > me to

> > > > go on

> > > > > clomed and urologist wouldn't treat me with HCG and felt

that a

> > > > range of

> > > > > (400) would be good, so I'm sticking with my first Endo I

went

> > to.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been a battle; I have finally convinced her that

not

> > all the

> > > > > information on the WEB is bad especially after I informed

her

> > that

> > > > she was

> > > > > over dosing me on HCG, she put me on Ovidrel that was

250ug

> > pre-

> > > > loaded

> > > > > syringes, after looking into it and using it for a couple

> > months I

> > > > found out

> > > > > that is equal to 6500IU of HCG so I'm in the process of

> > switching

> > > > to Novarel

> > > > > and should be receiving it in the mail today. So she is

finally

> > > > accepting

> > > > > that I should be a part of the process.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm taking 5gm of Androgel each day I did try Androderm

but

> > that

> > > > didn't work

> > > > > out, they kept falling off and left me with red blotches

where

> > I

> > > > used it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm going to be taking 250iu of Novarel.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also take Levoxyl Tabs 175MCG for the Hypothyroid.

> > > > >

> > > > > My last numbers:

> > > > >

> > > > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 722 (241-827 ng/dl)

> > > > >

> > > > > FREE TESTOSTERONE 158.9 (50-210pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > ESTRADIOL 48 (10-50pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > I have an appointment with my doctor in a few weeks and

I'm

> > going

> > > > to discuss

> > > > > with her the high E2 levels and what we are going to do

about

> > that

> > > > next.

> > > > >

> > > > > this I had an MRI of the PIT (Asymmetry of the Pituitary

Gland

> > on

> > > > the Left,

> > > > > Cannot Exclude Adenoma) this was inconclusive. My GH is

low but

> > > > she won't do

> > > > > anything with that until I get another MRI done in six

months

> > so I

> > > > need to

> > > > > wait until I get that treated. All my other hormone levels

> > where

> > > > good.

> > > > >

> > > > > How did they discover you had low cortisol/DHEA, I had an

AM

> > > > cortisol test

> > > > > done 18.9 (5-21 ug/dl) but I still seem to be falling on

my but

> > > > towards the

> > > > > end of the day.

> > > > >

> > > > > After looking at all the complexities to all of this and

being

> > > > told from two

> > > > > reproductive specialist that the only thing they will do

is IVU

> > > > not to

> > > > > mention the expense of all of that my wife and I have

decided

> > to

> > > > try to

> > > > > adopt.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Ben,

Thanks for your note.

Yes, when I stopped the Clomid (even when I dropped from 50 mgs. 3x

week to 25 mgs. 3x week), my symptoms and levels from 2nd Hypo.

returned to basis - around 275.

Given that I have tried patches, gels and shots to no avail, I do

plan to stay on Clomid long-term with close monitoring by my doctor

at Mass General. She surmises that I have low T receptors and a

strong conversion of T to E2 and thus respond better to anti-e's and

meds like Clomid. I will do some genetic testing next month, as

part of a study at Mass General, to confirm...2nd Hypo. has been an

issue for me since puberty...now 38!

Blessings,

Bill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hey Philip,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm fairly new to all of this and after being sick for

> around

> > > ten

> > > > > years and

> > > > > > being told it was all in my head my wife and I decided

to

> try

> > > and

> > > > > find out

> > > > > > why we where having problems having children so my GP

ran

> some

> > > > > blood work

> > > > > > and my T levels where 145 (241-827) around four months

ago

> and

> > > > > this got

> > > > > > everything going.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He recommended me to go to an Urologist but being we

where

> > > looking

> > > > > to try to

> > > > > > get pregnant I decided to see an Endo, we went to a

> > > reproductive

> > > > > Endo and a

> > > > > > urologist to get other opinions the reproductive Endo

> wanted

> > > me to

> > > > > go on

> > > > > > clomed and urologist wouldn't treat me with HCG and

felt

> that a

> > > > > range of

> > > > > > (400) would be good, so I'm sticking with my first Endo

I

> went

> > > to.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It has been a battle; I have finally convinced her that

not

> > > all the

> > > > > > information on the WEB is bad especially after I

informed

> her

> > > that

> > > > > she was

> > > > > > over dosing me on HCG, she put me on Ovidrel that was

250ug

> > > pre-

> > > > > loaded

> > > > > > syringes, after looking into it and using it for a

couple

> > > months I

> > > > > found out

> > > > > > that is equal to 6500IU of HCG so I'm in the process of

> > > switching

> > > > > to Novarel

> > > > > > and should be receiving it in the mail today. So she is

> finally

> > > > > accepting

> > > > > > that I should be a part of the process.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm taking 5gm of Androgel each day I did try Androderm

but

> > > that

> > > > > didn't work

> > > > > > out, they kept falling off and left me with red

blotches

> where

> > > I

> > > > > used it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm going to be taking 250iu of Novarel.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I also take Levoxyl Tabs 175MCG for the Hypothyroid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My last numbers:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 722 (241-827 ng/dl)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > FREE TESTOSTERONE 158.9 (50-210pg/ml)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ESTRADIOL 48 (10-50pg/ml)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have an appointment with my doctor in a few weeks and

I'm

> > > going

> > > > > to discuss

> > > > > > with her the high E2 levels and what we are going to do

> about

> > > that

> > > > > next.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > this I had an MRI of the PIT (Asymmetry of the

Pituitary

> Gland

> > > on

> > > > > the Left,

> > > > > > Cannot Exclude Adenoma) this was inconclusive. My GH is

> low but

> > > > > she won't do

> > > > > > anything with that until I get another MRI done in six

> months

> > > so I

> > > > > need to

> > > > > > wait until I get that treated. All my other hormone

levels

> > > where

> > > > > good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How did they discover you had low cortisol/DHEA, I had

an

> AM

> > > > > cortisol test

> > > > > > done 18.9 (5-21 ug/dl) but I still seem to be falling

on

> my but

> > > > > towards the

> > > > > > end of the day.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > After looking at all the complexities to all of this

and

> being

> > > > > told from two

> > > > > > reproductive specialist that the only thing they will

do

> is IVU

> > > > > not to

> > > > > > mention the expense of all of that my wife and I have

> decided

> > > to

> > > > > try to

> > > > > > adopt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I am not on any other forms of T, but I have no clue and would not

recommend getting Clomid from anyone but a doctor. Also, Clomid

does not lower or affect E in addition to T like Arimidex, it

inhibits E from being absorbed into hypothalmus, which increases

GnRh which increases LH and FSH in pituitary which increase T. Make

sure a doc. checks your heart if concerned - sounds like too much T

or anxiety??

Have you ever had a stimulation test to ensure your Pit. can and

will send LH and FSH?? If you cannot, clomid won't do you too good.

Blessings,

Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey Philip,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm fairly new to all of this and after being sick for

around

> > ten

> > > > years and

> > > > > being told it was all in my head my wife and I decided to

try

> > and

> > > > find out

> > > > > why we where having problems having children so my GP ran

some

> > > > blood work

> > > > > and my T levels where 145 (241-827) around four months ago

and

> > > > this got

> > > > > everything going.

> > > > >

> > > > > He recommended me to go to an Urologist but being we where

> > looking

> > > > to try to

> > > > > get pregnant I decided to see an Endo, we went to a

> > reproductive

> > > > Endo and a

> > > > > urologist to get other opinions the reproductive Endo

wanted

> > me to

> > > > go on

> > > > > clomed and urologist wouldn't treat me with HCG and felt

that a

> > > > range of

> > > > > (400) would be good, so I'm sticking with my first Endo I

went

> > to.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been a battle; I have finally convinced her that

not

> > all the

> > > > > information on the WEB is bad especially after I informed

her

> > that

> > > > she was

> > > > > over dosing me on HCG, she put me on Ovidrel that was

250ug

> > pre-

> > > > loaded

> > > > > syringes, after looking into it and using it for a couple

> > months I

> > > > found out

> > > > > that is equal to 6500IU of HCG so I'm in the process of

> > switching

> > > > to Novarel

> > > > > and should be receiving it in the mail today. So she is

finally

> > > > accepting

> > > > > that I should be a part of the process.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm taking 5gm of Androgel each day I did try Androderm

but

> > that

> > > > didn't work

> > > > > out, they kept falling off and left me with red blotches

where

> > I

> > > > used it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm going to be taking 250iu of Novarel.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also take Levoxyl Tabs 175MCG for the Hypothyroid.

> > > > >

> > > > > My last numbers:

> > > > >

> > > > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 722 (241-827 ng/dl)

> > > > >

> > > > > FREE TESTOSTERONE 158.9 (50-210pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > ESTRADIOL 48 (10-50pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > I have an appointment with my doctor in a few weeks and

I'm

> > going

> > > > to discuss

> > > > > with her the high E2 levels and what we are going to do

about

> > that

> > > > next.

> > > > >

> > > > > this I had an MRI of the PIT (Asymmetry of the Pituitary

Gland

> > on

> > > > the Left,

> > > > > Cannot Exclude Adenoma) this was inconclusive. My GH is

low but

> > > > she won't do

> > > > > anything with that until I get another MRI done in six

months

> > so I

> > > > need to

> > > > > wait until I get that treated. All my other hormone levels

> > where

> > > > good.

> > > > >

> > > > > How did they discover you had low cortisol/DHEA, I had an

AM

> > > > cortisol test

> > > > > done 18.9 (5-21 ug/dl) but I still seem to be falling on

my but

> > > > towards the

> > > > > end of the day.

> > > > >

> > > > > After looking at all the complexities to all of this and

being

> > > > told from two

> > > > > reproductive specialist that the only thing they will do

is IVU

> > > > not to

> > > > > mention the expense of all of that my wife and I have

decided

> > to

> > > > try to

> > > > > adopt.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

One sorce is Dr. he treats a lot of men and he is one that states this and

guys that tryed it posting there problems with it.

Phil

williamb11 <no_reply > wrote:

Phil,

I don't believe there are any long-term Clomid studies for 2nd Hypo.

in men. So, I am unclear where you are getting this scientific data.

Do you know that the longest they ever studied Paxil before FDA

approval was 1 year and for Wellbutrin, it was 44 weeks? Most

studies on most drugs are between 4-8 weeks prior to FDA approval.

There are TONS of people taking those drugs and many others that we

have NO IDEA of long-term benefit or harm.

Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey Philip,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm fairly new to all of this and after being sick for

around

> > ten

> > > > years and

> > > > > being told it was all in my head my wife and I decided to

try

> > and

> > > > find out

> > > > > why we where having problems having children so my GP ran

some

> > > > blood work

> > > > > and my T levels where 145 (241-827) around four months ago

and

> > > > this got

> > > > > everything going.

> > > > >

> > > > > He recommended me to go to an Urologist but being we where

> > looking

> > > > to try to

> > > > > get pregnant I decided to see an Endo, we went to a

> > reproductive

> > > > Endo and a

> > > > > urologist to get other opinions the reproductive Endo

wanted

> > me to

> > > > go on

> > > > > clomed and urologist wouldn't treat me with HCG and felt

that a

> > > > range of

> > > > > (400) would be good, so I'm sticking with my first Endo I

went

> > to.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been a battle; I have finally convinced her that

not

> > all the

> > > > > information on the WEB is bad especially after I informed

her

> > that

> > > > she was

> > > > > over dosing me on HCG, she put me on Ovidrel that was

250ug

> > pre-

> > > > loaded

> > > > > syringes, after looking into it and using it for a couple

> > months I

> > > > found out

> > > > > that is equal to 6500IU of HCG so I'm in the process of

> > switching

> > > > to Novarel

> > > > > and should be receiving it in the mail today. So she is

finally

> > > > accepting

> > > > > that I should be a part of the process.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm taking 5gm of Androgel each day I did try Androderm

but

> > that

> > > > didn't work

> > > > > out, they kept falling off and left me with red blotches

where

> > I

> > > > used it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm going to be taking 250iu of Novarel.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also take Levoxyl Tabs 175MCG for the Hypothyroid.

> > > > >

> > > > > My last numbers:

> > > > >

> > > > > TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 722 (241-827 ng/dl)

> > > > >

> > > > > FREE TESTOSTERONE 158.9 (50-210pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > ESTRADIOL 48 (10-50pg/ml)

> > > > >

> > > > > I have an appointment with my doctor in a few weeks and

I'm

> > going

> > > > to discuss

> > > > > with her the high E2 levels and what we are going to do

about

> > that

> > > > next.

> > > > >

> > > > > this I had an MRI of the PIT (Asymmetry of the Pituitary

Gland

> > on

> > > > the Left,

> > > > > Cannot Exclude Adenoma) this was inconclusive. My GH is

low but

> > > > she won't do

> > > > > anything with that until I get another MRI done in six

months

> > so I

> > > > need to

> > > > > wait until I get that treated. All my other hormone levels

> > where

> > > > good.

> > > > >

> > > > > How did they discover you had low cortisol/DHEA, I had an

AM

> > > > cortisol test

> > > > > done 18.9 (5-21 ug/dl) but I still seem to be falling on

my but

> > > > towards the

> > > > > end of the day.

> > > > >

> > > > > After looking at all the complexities to all of this and

being

> > > > told from two

> > > > > reproductive specialist that the only thing they will do

is IVU

> > > > not to

> > > > > mention the expense of all of that my wife and I have

decided

> > to

> > > > try to

> > > > > adopt.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >