RE: hypo all the way

October 10, 2005

Now, I am living in Minneapolis, Minnesota state, US.

My endo is Dr.Salama Samir, from Allina Medical Clinic, Coon Rapids. I

dont know much about him. Actually I am new to US (just 6 months since

I came here). I had to go thru a lot of learning curve in many other

things (like the place, job, driving, living, etc, etc). So I am still

new here and do not have much info or courage to explore and try new

doctors easily. However my depression drived me to find this endo. He

is mainly a diabetician I think. Actually I came to know him thru a

general physician near my house, who is also new to me.

>

> Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I have copied the lab

results and

> note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it is easie to refer in

future

> postings.

>

> Lets see what the others say and I will reply later this week. I do

think

> you need to speak with your Father about his experiences and to try and

> present a family situation (if only Father and SOn) to your

endocrinologist.

> It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist.

>

> WHere are you now? Which country / location. Is your endocrinologist

at a

> Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are researched as well as

> Endocrinology?

>

> The now high T may be an indicator that your problem is not primary

> Hypogonadism and so you should have had more tests earlier on.

Again, can

> you make contact to requestyour medical notes and lab results so

they can be

> presented to your new or next endocrinologist etc?

>

> Take care

>

> _________________________________

> Hi, my test results done 3 months back.

>

> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45)

> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17)

> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8)

> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11)

> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800)

> [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But

> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL

> (normal range: 236-1076)]

> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160)

> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1)

> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13)

> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1)

> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone

> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml]

> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492)

> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8)

> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50)

> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily

> indicate hypothyroidism.... " )

> ********************************Forgot to mention:

>

> My current endo has a note on my lab-order sheet reading:

> hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given me 'synthroid' tablets

> for 2 months.

> _____________

> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests:

> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH.

>

> Re: hypo all the way

>

> Hi All

> thanks for all the help.

>

> , as you had asked, full information about me is here (sorry

> this is a long post again, since I have to tell all the info so that

> it will be useful for anyone helping me out):

>

> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 years and now I am

> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when I was around 23

> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have these problems. He tested

> m testo and said it is fine. But on my insistence, he injected few

> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am doing bad, then he

> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported as problems to this

> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are wide, when I walk it

> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told sometimes that I hips

> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), my voice is like a

> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was removed by surgery. (I

> wanted to say more - like all my friends are getting on with girls

> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, and I am not able

> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult to talk about, so I

> did not). He did many tests, but I dont remember all of those. He

> injected a a few testo shots again and then said everything is fine,

> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing I remember is my

> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I said I was concerned,

> but he said there is nothing to do and it quite fine.

>

> But I was feeling bad always. After some years, again on my

> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another endo. She did similar

> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and E was high, same like

> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is nothing to do, I

> should just stop thinking about it, and thats it. She refused to do

> anything.

>

> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by myself. Tests: testosterone

> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E was same like earlier,

> in the higher range. When I was beginning to give up all hope on

> endos, she was the first one who said, there is a lot to do, I

> should not be like this, I should take active treatment, etc. She

> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no problem with that at

> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two weeks. After 6 months,

> tests showed the T has gone down further. She said I should change

> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she gave me to show to my

> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: 'idiopathic

> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, test showed it was too

> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was a note 'significant

> difference' against the T level in the report. Now that endo had

> moved and another person took over. He told me to go back to the

> biweekly schedule.

>

> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 months in the shots,

> since it is a new place. Then I continued the biweekly 20mg with a

> general physician here. Then I saw an endo here (who is my current

> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal like walk, broad hip

> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides like famales rather

> than going down as in males), narraw waist, narrow (round like)

> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin voice, low libido, have

> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too soon, unable to

> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to know about Klinefelter

> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. KS says - long

> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall (mostly 6'2 " ),

> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, less facial hair, shy,

> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very well. He said K people

> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic can have, I told him,

> and he refused to listen to me. He said there is nothing wrong with

> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his deaf ears.

>

> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite fine. He asked if I

> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why he asked this. He did

> complete tests again. I have the full test results. Since this post

> is too long, I will post the full results in my next post

> immediately following this.

>

> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its due to the

> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two weeks, which I started

> last week. He said this would fix things. I said I am concerned

> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go for E suppressants. He

> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to his knowledge, and

> what he says is the only option available as far to his knowledge.

> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'.

>

> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing could be done to improve

> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk about it anymore.

>

> Reg your questions:

>

> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes (school), I was the

> tallest.

>

> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " .

>

> I started growing fast around start of puberty. I think I grew too

> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew till around 17-19 years

> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not very sure about these

> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I am right, if not not

> too wrong.

>

> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not sure what is the

> right weight for my age and height. But my wieght and height are

> given above.

>

> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked to me about this at

> all.

>

> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! He had gynecomastia

> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). I never knew, until I

> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also has a little narrow

> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he has a lot of wieght.

> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I had this problem and

> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. He never cared to help

> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, whatever. Though he can

> afford and though he is not bad, he never cared.

> I dont know about generations earlier to him.

> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. Father: 5'9 " , mother 5'8 " ,

> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only second sister is short

> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were 6'0 " . My unlces on

> either side are tall too. My great grandfather was a tall person

> too, but his photos look like he never had gyne, and he looks like a

> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too.

>

> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them wants to listen to

> that. They look at me as if I am mad and stupid! Except for that

> only endo (prev one) who said, there is nothing that can be done

> about the hip bones now, since they are fully grown.

>

> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from start of puberty (should

> be 13-14 years).

>

> Last information is, when I was born, the first six months, my legs

> were twisted and twined with each other. It was to the level that my

> mother did not carry me around, since it looked quite bad. Then

> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and cured without any

> medical help. I dont know if this has anything related to my hypo

> problem.

>

October 10, 2005

I was watching Discovery Health channel a few weeks ago and there was a woman on

who went through a sex change. She had been on Testosterone for several years

and to be honest, she looked like more of a man that I do. She mentioned that

after several years her jaw had actually become more square shaped...like a man.

I do think that even if you have past puberty, you can still make changes to

your body by getting the correct dose of hormones.

Sing MR <m_singaram@...> wrote:Hypo thyroidism - has something to do with

hypogonadism? I can

understand hypogonadism. But hypothyroidism, and about the thyroid

realtions to the hormones and manliness, I am coming to know of late

only. Does it mean that hypothyroidism is my real problem?

Anyway, I am again asking a lay question - is it possible to change

the voice/change the hip bone size? Ridiculous as it may sound, I am

just feeling too bad. Thats why I am asking.

>

> You're lucky to have a doctor who was willing to Rx some thyroid meds

> based on your levels...and lucky to have a lab using the latest

> guidelines for TSH levels.

>

> 2.4 TSH level is high, the vast majority of non-hypo people test in the

> 1's range. What's missing is your Free T3 levels...ask your doctor (or

> do it yourself) to add it to the lab request form for a complete

> picture. T3 is the active hormone, T4 is the reserve. You could have

> plenty of T4 but some have a conversion problem, so even with high T4

> don't get the T3 they need to live.

>

> Still, it is exciting that you're doc is treating it for you with your

> results, I assure you, based on stories in the thyroid group I read,

> most doctors would send you away.

>

> I think thyroid is so related to everything it's insane...my

> hypogonadism troubles never surfaced until I had my thyroid gland

> removed and my whole body just fell apart afterwards with poor

> management by local docs and endos. Fortunately I found Dr. on the

> net while he was still taking new internet patients, and he's gotten my

> thyroid and test under control, though we're still fighting screwy

> Estrogen levels after a year of treatment.

>

> Good luck to you!

>

> Re: hypo all the way

>

> Hi, my test results done 3 months back.

>

> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45)

> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17)

> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8)

> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11)

> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800)

> [there is another entry immediately following which confuses me. But

> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303 ng/dL

> (normal range: 236-1076)]

> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160)

> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1)

> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13)

> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1)

> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth hormone

> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml]

> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492)

> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8)

> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50)

> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not necessarily

> indicate hypothyroidism.... " )

>

> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these tests:

> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH.

>

October 11, 2005

Hi

Just a quick note:

You really need a consultant from a US Teaching Hospital. A teaching

hospital merely relates to a hospital being attached to a medical school

which udertakes teaching of medics and research. Use a Search Engine with

your US State and medical school + endocrinology as an example. If you visit

http://www.pituitary.org you will also get some help Get back in touch with

us to then go further forward.

Hope this helps

Re: hypo all the way

>>

>> Hi All

>> thanks for all the help.

>>

>> , as you had asked, full information about me is here (sorry

>> this is a long post again, since I have to tell all the info so that

>> it will be useful for anyone helping me out):

>>

>> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 years and now I am

>> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when I was around 23

>> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have these problems. He tested

>> m testo and said it is fine. But on my insistence, he injected few

>> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am doing bad, then he

>> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported as problems to this

>> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are wide, when I walk it

>> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told sometimes that I hips

>> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), my voice is like a

>> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was removed by surgery. (I

>> wanted to say more - like all my friends are getting on with girls

>> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, and I am not able

>> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult to talk about, so I

>> did not). He did many tests, but I dont remember all of those. He

>> injected a a few testo shots again and then said everything is fine,

>> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing I remember is my

>> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I said I was concerned,

>> but he said there is nothing to do and it quite fine.

>>

>> But I was feeling bad always. After some years, again on my

>> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another endo. She did similar

>> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and E was high, same like

>> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is nothing to do, I

>> should just stop thinking about it, and thats it. She refused to do

>> anything.

>>

>> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by myself. Tests: testosterone

>> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E was same like earlier,

>> in the higher range. When I was beginning to give up all hope on

>> endos, she was the first one who said, there is a lot to do, I

>> should not be like this, I should take active treatment, etc. She

>> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no problem with that at

>> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two weeks. After 6 months,

>> tests showed the T has gone down further. She said I should change

>> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she gave me to show to my

>> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: 'idiopathic

>> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, test showed it was too

>> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was a note 'significant

>> difference' against the T level in the report. Now that endo had

>> moved and another person took over. He told me to go back to the

>> biweekly schedule.

>>

>> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 months in the shots,

>> since it is a new place. Then I continued the biweekly 20mg with a

>> general physician here. Then I saw an endo here (who is my current

>> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal like walk, broad hip

>> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides like famales rather

>> than going down as in males), narraw waist, narrow (round like)

>> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin voice, low libido, have

>> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too soon, unable to

>> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to know about Klinefelter

>> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. KS says - long

>> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall (mostly 6'2 " ),

>> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, less facial hair, shy,

>> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very well. He said K people

>> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic can have, I told him,

>> and he refused to listen to me. He said there is nothing wrong with

>> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his deaf ears.

>>

>> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite fine. He asked if I

>> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why he asked this. He did

>> complete tests again. I have the full test results. Since this post

>> is too long, I will post the full results in my next post

>> immediately following this.

>>

>> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its due to the

>> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two weeks, which I started

>> last week. He said this would fix things. I said I am concerned

>> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go for E suppressants. He

>> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to his knowledge, and

>> what he says is the only option available as far to his knowledge.

>> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'.

>>

>> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing could be done to improve

>> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk about it anymore.

>>

>> Reg your questions:

>>

>> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes (school), I was the

>> tallest.

>>

>> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " .

>>

>> I started growing fast around start of puberty. I think I grew too

>> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew till around 17-19 years

>> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not very sure about these

>> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I am right, if not not

>> too wrong.

>>

>> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not sure what is the

>> right weight for my age and height. But my wieght and height are

>> given above.

>>

>> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked to me about this at

>> all.

>>

>> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! He had gynecomastia

>> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). I never knew, until I

>> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also has a little narrow

>> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he has a lot of wieght.

>> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I had this problem and

>> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. He never cared to help

>> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, whatever. Though he can

>> afford and though he is not bad, he never cared.

>> I dont know about generations earlier to him.

>> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. Father: 5'9 " , mother 5'8 " ,

>> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only second sister is short

>> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were 6'0 " . My unlces on

>> either side are tall too. My great grandfather was a tall person

>> too, but his photos look like he never had gyne, and he looks like a

>> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too.

>>

>> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them wants to listen to

>> that. They look at me as if I am mad and stupid! Except for that

>> only endo (prev one) who said, there is nothing that can be done

>> about the hip bones now, since they are fully grown.

>>

>> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from start of puberty (should

>> be 13-14 years).

>>

>> Last information is, when I was born, the first six months, my legs

>> were twisted and twined with each other. It was to the level that my

>> mother did not carry me around, since it looked quite bad. Then

>> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and cured without any

>> medical help. I dont know if this has anything related to my hypo

>> problem.

>>

November 11, 2005

Hi

I changed my endo. The new doc told me to stop the Testo shots

used I take biweekly for 6 weeks. He wants to see what my (own)

levels are when I am totally devoid of the TRT for 6 weeks. In an

intermediate test (after 2 weeks), my Free T level has dropped from

800 to 268. Estradiol has also dropped well from 63 to 16. I have to

wait for 4 more weeks for the 6 weeks to get over. I feel quite

miserable without the shots. But I am just putting on with all my

will. The doc said, after 6 weeks, most probably he will have to put

me back on the TRT. But then, he said, shots are not the best way.

Gel is the best. And he is going to give that. I also read about

gels and looks good, like they dont peak or go down too much, rather

help to maintain a balanced level always. But I also read that they

are not as powerful as the shots. i.e., they will never give the

feeling you get imm. after a shot. This worries me a little.

Because, having been on shots for 3 years, even the immediate peak

after a shot never gave me a good satisfaction. So what can I expect

from the gel?

Also some helpful souls pointed me to look for help from

teaching/research schools in the endo/genetology discipline from my

state (minnesota). I was not able to find a good match, since most

research things from UMN in endo area are in diabetes. Any help in

this aspect will be helpful to me too.

Thanks

> > >>

> > >> Hi, Thanks for your more detailed reply. I have copied the lab

> > > results and

> > >> note on Hypothyroidism into this email so it is easie to

refer

> in

> > > future

> > >> postings.

> > >>

> > >> Lets see what the others say and I will reply later this

week.

> I do

> > > think

> > >> you need to speak with your Father about his experiences and

to

> try and

> > >> present a family situation (if only Father and SOn) to your

> > > endocrinologist.

> > >> It may also be worth seeing a Geneticist.

> > >>

> > >> WHere are you now? Which country / location. Is your

> endocrinologist

> > > at a

> > >> Teaching Hospital where other disciplines are researched as

> well as

> > >> Endocrinology?

> > >>

> > >> The now high T may be an indicator that your problem is not

> primary

> > >> Hypogonadism and so you should have had more tests earlier on.

> > > Again, can

> > >> you make contact to requestyour medical notes and lab results

so

> > > they can be

> > >> presented to your new or next endocrinologist etc?

> > >>

> > >> Take care

> > >>

> > >> _________________________________

> > >> Hi, my test results done 3 months back.

> > >>

> > >> Estradiol - 62 pg/mL (normal range: 12-45)

> > >> Prolactin - 14.3 ng/mL (normal range: 3 - 17)

> > >> LH - 0.1 (normal range: 1-8)

> > >> FSH: 0.3 (normal range: 2-11)

> > >> Testosterone - Total: 1382 ng/dL (normal range: 200-800)

> > >> [there is another entry immediately following which confuses

> me. But

> > >> I write it here as such: Testosterone - Total and free: 1303

> ng/dL

> > >> (normal range: 236-1076)]

> > >> Testosterone - Free: 424.7 pg/ML (normal range: 31-160)

> > >> Testosterone - %Free: 3.3% pg/ML (normal range: 1.0-3.1)

> > >> Cortisol: 13 (range AM:5-25 ug/dl; PM:2-13)

> > >> Growth Hormone: 0.6 ng/ml (normal range: < 10.1)

> > >> [This entry, I am not sure, just typing it here: Growth

hormone

> > >> (following 75 G oral glucose): adults: < 1 ng/ml]

> > >> IGF-1 (Somatomedin C): 341 ng/ml (114-492)

> > >> T4, Free: 1.1 ng/dl (normal range: 0.7-1.8)

> > >> TSH: 2.54 UIU/ml (0.34-2.50)

> > >> (there is a note here: " values between 2.5 and 10 do not

> necessarily

> > >> indicate hypothyroidism.... " )

> > >> ********************************Forgot to mention:

> > >>

> > >> My current endo has a note on my lab-order sheet reading:

> > >> hypothyroidism/hypogonadism. He also has given me 'synthroid'

> tablets

> > >> for 2 months.

> > >> _____________

> > >> On the next forthcoming test he has asked me to go for these

> tests:

> > >> PSS:PSA, T4 (Free), Testosterone Total, TSH.

> > >>

> > >> Re: hypo all the way

> > >>

> > >> Hi All

> > >> thanks for all the help.

> > >>

> > >> , as you had asked, full information about me is here

> (sorry

> > >> this is a long post again, since I have to tell all the info

so

> that

> > >> it will be useful for anyone helping me out):

> > >>

> > >> I said I was seeing an endocrinologist for 2 years and now

I

> am

> > >> seeing another one. Actually, long back, when I was around 23

> > >> itself, I told my psychiatrist that I have these problems. He

> tested

> > >> m testo and said it is fine. But on my insistence, he

injected

> few

> > >> shots of testo. Still I was telling that I am doing bad, then

he

> > >> sent me to an endocrinologist. What I reported as problems to

> this

> > >> endo: facial hair is scarce, my hip bones are wide, when I

walk

> it

> > >> makes me look like a girl walking, (I am told sometimes that

I

> hips

> > >> move a lot making it look like a lady walk), my voice is like

a

> > >> girl, I had gyne from 13-17 years and was removed by surgery.

(I

> > >> wanted to say more - like all my friends are getting on with

> girls

> > >> well, but I am a loner bcos of these problems, and I am not

> able

> > >> date anyone, etc, etc - but that is difficult to talk about,

so

> I

> > >> did not). He did many tests, but I dont remember all of

those.

> He

> > >> injected a a few testo shots again and then said everything

is

> fine,

> > >> I should not talk about it anymore. One thing I remember is my

> > >> estrogen was 26 (normal range is 5 - 30). I said I was

> concerned,

> > >> but he said there is nothing to do and it quite fine.

> > >>

> > >> But I was feeling bad always. After some years, again on my

> > >> insistence, my psychiatrist sent me another endo. She did

> similar

> > >> tests. I think T was in low normal range, and E was high,

same

> like

> > >> earlier. She said everything is fine, there is nothing to do,

I

> > >> should just stop thinking about it, and thats it. She refused

> to do

> > >> anything.

> > >>

> > >> Then after 10 years, I saw a new endo by myself. Tests:

> testosterone

> > >> was very low (8.7 - normal range: 9 - 30. E was same like

> earlier,

> > >> in the higher range. When I was beginning to give up all hope

on

> > >> endos, she was the first one who said, there is a lot to do, I

> > >> should not be like this, I should take active treatment, etc.

> She

> > >> did an MRI. Said my pituitary was fine, no problem with that

at

> > >> all.Then she started me on 200mg T every two weeks. After 6

> months,

> > >> tests showed the T has gone down further. She said I should

> change

> > >> to 300mg once in 3 weeks. (In a ref letter she gave me to

show

> to my

> > >> family clinic to inject the T, the note was: 'idiopathic

> > >> hypotestosteronism'). 6 months later again, test showed it

was

> too

> > >> bad. It was 5 (normal range: 9-30). There was a

> note 'significant

> > >> difference' against the T level in the report. Now that endo

had

> > >> moved and another person took over. He told me to go back to

the

> > >> biweekly schedule.

> > >>

> > >> Then I moved to the US. There was a gap of 3 months in the

> shots,

> > >> since it is a new place. Then I continued the biweekly 20mg

> with a

> > >> general physician here. Then I saw an endo here (who is my

> current

> > >> endo). Now, I told him all my symptoms - femal like walk,

broad

> hip

> > >> bone(growing and protruding towards the sides like famales

> rather

> > >> than going down as in males), narraw waist, narrow (round

like)

> > >> chest, the gyne prob earlier, then the thin voice, low

libido,

> have

> > >> erection when doing sex, but I ejaculate too soon, unable to

> > >> penetrate at all, less facial hair. I came to know about

> Klinefelter

> > >> synrome recently, so I asked him if I had it. KS says - long

> > >> unproportionate limbs, poor upper body, tall (mostly 6'2 " ),

> > >> gynecomastia, rounded body type, thin voice, less facial

hair,

> shy,

> > >> etc, etc. All this applies to me very very well. He said K

> people

> > >> cannot have babies. What the hell...KS mosaic can have, I

told

> him,

> > >> and he refused to listen to me. He said there is nothing

wrong

> with

> > >> my body at all. Whatever I say fall to his deaf ears.

> > >>

> > >> He saw my old MRI and said pituitary is quite fine. He asked

if

> I

> > >> have headaches often. I do not. Not sure why he asked this.

He

> did

> > >> complete tests again. I have the full test results. Since

this

> post

> > >> is too long, I will post the full results in my next post

> > >> immediately following this.

> > >>

> > >> He said the T is too high, E is also high, its due to the

> > >> conversion, so asked me to do 150mg very two weeks, which I

> started

> > >> last week. He said this would fix things. I said I am

concerned

> > >> about the high E, and why not he ask me to go for E

> suppressants. He

> > >> said there is nothing like E suppressant as to his knowledge,

> and

> > >> what he says is the only option available as far to his

> knowledge.

> > >> He was like - 'dont ask aymore questions'.

> > >>

> > >> My last two endos clearly told me: nothing could be done to

> improve

> > >> my voice, hip bone - so I should not talk about it anymore.

> > >>

> > >> Reg your questions:

> > >>

> > >> Yes I was tall as a child. All my classes (school), I was the

> > >> tallest.

> > >>

> > >> My weight is74 kg, height 6'2 " .

> > >>

> > >> I started growing fast around start of puberty. I think I

grew

> too

> > >> fast in the intial years of puberty. I grew till around 17-19

> years

> > >> of age. After that, no growth. Sorry, I am not very sure

about

> these

> > >> times. I dont remember too well. But I think I am right, if

not

> not

> > >> too wrong.

> > >>

> > >> Underweight - I dont think so, though I am not sure what is

the

> > >> right weight for my age and height. But my wieght and height

are

> > >> given above.

> > >>

> > >> Growth hormone test - no doctor so far talked to me about

this

> at

> > >> all.

> > >>

> > >> Hereditary - yes, my father has some problem! He had

> gynecomastia

> > >> and got it removed by surgery (1960 I think). I never knew,

> until I

> > >> had it and once my grand-mom told me. He also has a little

> narrow

> > >> waist, narrow chest, little broad hip. But he has a lot of

> wieght.

> > >> So it did not appear to me at all. Only when I had this

problem

> and

> > >> came to know he also had it, then I noticed. He never cared

to

> help

> > >> me go for the gyne removal, or T treatment, whatever. Though

he

> can

> > >> afford and though he is not bad, he never cared.

> > >> I dont know about generations earlier to him.

> > >> Then all my ancestors/siblings are tall. Father: 5'9 " , mother

> 5'8 " ,

> > >> elder brother 6'3 " , elder sister 5'8 " , only second sister is

> short

> > >> (5'3 " ). My grandfathers on either side were 6'0 " . My unlces on

> > >> either side are tall too. My great grandfather was a tall

person

> > >> too, but his photos look like he never had gyne, and he looks

> like a

> > >> strong man. Many of my cousins are tall too.

> > >>

> > >> Endocrinologists on my bone size: none of them wants to

listen

> to

> > >> that. They look at me as if I am mad and stupid! Except for

that

> > >> only endo (prev one) who said, there is nothing that can be

done

> > >> about the hip bones now, since they are fully grown.

> > >>

> > >> Age when I noticed the symptoms: right from start of puberty

> (should

> > >> be 13-14 years).

> > >>

> > >> Last information is, when I was born, the first six months,

my

> legs

> > >> were twisted and twined with each other. It was to the level

> that my

> > >> mother did not carry me around, since it looked quite bad.

Then

> > >> somehow, after 6 months, it got straight and cured without any

> > >> medical help. I dont know if this has anything related to my

> hypo

> > >> problem.

> > >>

November 11, 2005

I feel for you every time I was sent to an Endo they did this to me and all they

found out was how sick they made me. You never felt great on shots because you

did them every other week. Doing this puts you on a roller coaster ride up

after the shot and down by the time you get the next one. As for Gels they are

not any better then the shots every week as a matter of fact a lot of men are

going back on shots every week from the gels I am one of them. Doing the gels

is a pain you need to put it on everyday and let it dry then keep from getting

it on your wife and kids. It drove my DHT up to high and my E2. I could never

get my levels up high enough to feel good the more I took the more my DHT and E2

went up. Seeing an Endo is a waste of money and time they just are not good on

TRT. I have seen 7 in the last 21 yrs. and each one took me off my meds to only

find out how sick they made me. Go to this link and read Dr. 's TRT: A

Recipe for Success and his HCG Update it is at

the bottom of his site for free. I went on this and now feel the best I ever

felt in the 21 yrs. I have been on TRT.

http://www.allthingsmale.com/

Phil

Singaram Murugappan <m_singaram@...> wrote:Hi