Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Hey Greg: This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number of times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes him feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell yes, I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too low. As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not feel bad. Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just speculation. Best Regards, Gene DIM Discussion In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from 200 to 400 mgs for men. Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that their are no side effects to taking larger doses. I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. Anyone want to take a stab at this? Thanks Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 >Gene, I don't know either. Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? Greg Hey Greg: > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number of times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes him feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell yes, I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too low. As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not feel bad. > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just speculation. > > Best Regards, > Gene > DIM Discussion > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. You probably weren't taking bioavailable DIM (a.k.a., Indolplex). All other DIM is worthless because it gets digested before it can enter the blood stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Greg are you talking about the booklet sold at this site. As said the other DIM's Don't work at least not for me. Indolplex/DIM will make you go to low. As for Gene his T levels are very high were I need mine and this may be why he has not gone to low the best level for E2 is 10 - 30 I feel best at 20. I have said this many times if you go to low on Indloplex/DIM you will lose your morning wood. You need to have all the E's in balance the same for T's shit all your hormones need to be in balance to feel good and for you dick to work right. Phil Greg Kevorkian <grekkevork@...> wrote: >Gene, I don't know either. Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? Greg Hey Greg: > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number of times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes him feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell yes, I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too low. As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not feel bad. > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just speculation. > > Best Regards, > Gene > DIM Discussion > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock down their E and lose their libido? Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. It makes no sense to me, and just trying to learn why. Greg If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > You probably weren't taking bioavailable DIM (a.k.a., Indolplex). All > other DIM is worthless because it gets digested before it can enter the > blood stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Sorry for got to put in the link. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm Phil > >Gene, I don't know either. > > Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about > libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking > big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E > for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? > > Greg > > > > > Hey Greg: > > > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number of > times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes him > feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated > level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell yes, > I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish > that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too low. > As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see > this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol > stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not > feel bad. > > > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol > in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller > coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this > hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very > strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just > speculation. > > > > Best Regards, > > Gene > > DIM Discussion > > > > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to > my > > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where > from > > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels > down > > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T > therapy > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing > their > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state > that > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking > DIM > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this > better. > > > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and > regulates > > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > > > Thanks > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > >Gene, I don't know either. > > Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about > libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking > big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E > for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? > > Greg > > > > > Hey Greg: > > > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number of > times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes him > feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated > level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell yes, > I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish > that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too low. > As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see > this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol > stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not > feel bad. > > > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol > in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller > coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this > hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very > strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just > speculation. > > > > Best Regards, > > Gene > > DIM Discussion > > > > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to > my > > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where > from > > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels > down > > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T > therapy > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing > their > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state > that > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking > DIM > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this > better. > > > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and > regulates > > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > > > Thanks > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > down their E and lose their libido? Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we can't say for sure what's going on. > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the young doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of Indolplex. She didn't have a whole lot to say. Why don't they publish some blood test results for their products? How easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this information to themselves for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > >That would be good if they did that. I would think that if men were losing their libidos left and right we would have heard about it. Where is he located? I would call. , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > > down their E and lose their libido? > > Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we can't > say for sure what's going on. > > > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the young > doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of Indolplex. > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > Why don't they publish some blood test results for their products? How > easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this > information to themselves for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to > > one of the young doctors about my powerful response > > to very low dosages of Indolplex. > > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > Where is he located? I would call. I just called the same number on their website where you order Indolplex and started asking questions. When the order taker couldn't field my questions, she handed me over to a doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Maybe the patented type specifically being rederred to in other pistings is just that much more potent (i.e., crosses into blood more thoroughly, etc.) and so acts much, much sttronger in smaller doses. I beleve that Gene uses quite strong amounts of DIM andhis E2 seems to be in normal ranges.... > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Greg Indolplex/DIM is a 120 mg. tablet this is why you have the wrong stuff. I was taking DIM Natures Way in caps and 6 pills a day did nothing. Phil Greg Kevorkian <grekkevork@...> wrote: > >Gene, I don't know either. > > Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about > libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking > big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E > for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? > > Greg > > > > > Hey Greg: > > > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number of > times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes him > feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated > level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell yes, > I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish > that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too low. > As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see > this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol > stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not > feel bad. > > > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol > in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller > coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this > hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very > strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just > speculation. > > > > Best Regards, > > Gene > > DIM Discussion > > > > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to > my > > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where > from > > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels > down > > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T > therapy > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing > their > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state > that > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking > DIM > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this > better. > > > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and > regulates > > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > > > Thanks > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 It all depends on what the person is doing as for a weight lifter doing roids his E2 levels will but hard to keep down the higher the dose of T one is on the harder it is to keep E2 in check been there and I know. Phil lrs1951 <stat1951@...> wrote: Maybe the patented type specifically being rederred to in other pistings is just that much more potent (i.e., crosses into blood more thoroughly, etc.) and so acts much, much sttronger in smaller doses. I beleve that Gene uses quite strong amounts of DIM andhis E2 seems to be in normal ranges.... > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 > > >Gene, I don't know either. > > > > Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about > > libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking > > big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E > > for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > Hey Greg: > > > > > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number > of > > times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes > him > > feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated > > level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell > yes, > > I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish > > that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too > low. > > As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see > > this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol > > stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not > > feel bad. > > > > > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol > > in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller > > coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this > > hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very > > strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just > > speculation. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Gene > > > DIM Discussion > > > > > > > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid > to > > my > > > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > > > > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where > > from > > > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > > > > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels > > down > > > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > > > > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T > > therapy > > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing > > their > > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors > state > > that > > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was > taking > > DIM > > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this > > better. > > > > > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and > > regulates > > > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > > > > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > > ----------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I'm confused now.... the brand used in these studies and cited in this link is actually called " BioResponse DIM " A. Zeligs, M.D., is the founder of BioResponse Nutrients and the inventor of bioavailable Diindolylmethane. This highly-absorbable, patented, and clinically-tested form of Diindolylmethane is sold both under the BioResponse brand name and under license through leading distributors of nutritional supplements. Do we know that Indoplex is the ONLY other " leading manufacturer " that is marketing the BioResponse DIM product? It appears it might be getting sold also as " IndoleGard " .... http://www.naturalhealinghouse.com/dim.htm Also as " DIM-Plus " ... http://www.iherb.com/dim.html Who knows who else might be carying it??? Larry > > >Gene, I don't know either. > > > > Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about > > libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking > > big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E > > for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > Hey Greg: > > > > > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number > of > > times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes > him > > feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated > > level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell > yes, > > I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish > > that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too > low. > > As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see > > this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol > > stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not > > feel bad. > > > > > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol > > in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller > > coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this > > hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very > > strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just > > speculation. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Gene > > > DIM Discussion > > > > > > > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid > to > > my > > > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > > > > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where > > from > > > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > > > > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels > > down > > > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > > > > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T > > therapy > > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing > > their > > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors > state > > that > > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was > taking > > DIM > > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this > > better. > > > > > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and > > regulates > > > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > > > > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ----------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Regarding my use of Indoplex DIM, my body wants 2 tablets in the morning after breakfast. I'm not sure that this can be considered a " strong " amount necessarily. When compared to Phil's system, which only requires a fraction of the same product, I suppose the amount I take might be considered " strong. " Like we always say -- " your mileage may vary. " But, I completely agree with Phil in his other post regarding Nature's Way and Puritan's Pride DIM -- they don't work! I tried them both and they were a total waste of money. Re: DIM Discussion Maybe the patented type specifically being rederred to in other pistings is just that much more potent (i.e., crosses into blood more thoroughly, etc.) and so acts much, much sttronger in smaller doses. I beleve that Gene uses quite strong amounts of DIM andhis E2 seems to be in normal ranges.... > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Good I hope it gets you there. Phil Greg Kevorkian <grekkevork@...> wrote: > > >Gene, I don't know either. > > > > Did you ever read the booklet. Interesting reading. If true about > > libido there has got to be a whole lot of people out there taking > > big doses of DIM and having no sex, LOL. When they say you need E > > for libido does that mean you need Estrdiol and total Estrogen? > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > Hey Greg: > > > > > > This is really interesting because, Phil has expressed a number > of > > times that his estradiol level has gone too low and, that makes > him > > feel like shit just as a bad, or worse, than having an elevated > > level. In my case, I've NEVER experienced the " low " -- oh hell > yes, > > I know all about the too high and its dreadful. I wouldn't wish > > that on anyone. But, from my experience -- I've not gone too > low. > > As you know, I get my blood tested every week (can't wait to see > > this week's numbers -- should be ready tonight) and my estradiol > > stays right around 15. It was once down around 12 but, I did not > > feel bad. > > > > > > Could it be, once again, that each one of us processes estradiol > > in our own systems differently? Maybe Phil's system has roller > > coasted so much over the many years he's suffered with this > > hypogonadism/ED crap that he's got to keep his estradiol in a very > > strict mid-range in order to feel okay? Damned if I know. Just > > speculation. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Gene > > > DIM Discussion > > > > > > > > > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid > to > > my > > > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > > > > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where > > from > > > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > > > > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels > > down > > > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > > > > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T > > therapy > > > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing > > their > > > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors > state > > that > > > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > > > > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was > taking > > DIM > > > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > > > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this > > better. > > > > > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and > > regulates > > > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > > > > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > > ----------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Gene the compounded T you are on is I believe 2 x's as strong as 10 grams of Testim. When I was on that amount my levels were only up to 600. My Dr. had to add a 200 mg. shot to get me past 800 total t and it would take a lot of Indolplex/DIM at that time to keep my E2 down the more T you take to get your levels up the more E2 you make. I got a bad rash in one of the spots that break out when my E2 is to high so the Hcg must be working just doing 150 mgs. of Depo T my levels are only 650 and I am not feel 100% at that level. So my E2 is on the rise hopefully the Hcg has got my nuts working again they have got a lot bigger. When I was on a compounded cream like you are using the lab that made it said it was 2x's stronger then 10 grams of Testim. And at that time my levels were 1200 and I felt dam good but when the patch came out my BCBS would not pay for it anymore. So I feel the higher your T levels are the more E2 you will make and the more you will need to take to keep it down. Phil Gene Bowhay <genebowhay@...> wrote: Regarding my use of Indoplex DIM, my body wants 2 tablets in the morning after breakfast. I'm not sure that this can be considered a " strong " amount necessarily. When compared to Phil's system, which only requires a fraction of the same product, I suppose the amount I take might be considered " strong. " Like we always say -- " your mileage may vary. " But, I completely agree with Phil in his other post regarding Nature's Way and Puritan's Pride DIM -- they don't work! I tried them both and they were a total waste of money. Re: DIM Discussion Maybe the patented type specifically being rederred to in other pistings is just that much more potent (i.e., crosses into blood more thoroughly, etc.) and so acts much, much sttronger in smaller doses. I beleve that Gene uses quite strong amounts of DIM andhis E2 seems to be in normal ranges.... > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Greg, Here is website for Bio-Response. They make all of these, whether Indoplex or Dim-Plus or whatever. If you scout around I am sure that you can find a contact number or e-mail contact and address this point with them. http://www.bio-response.com/ I use 100mg about 4 - 5 x a week (I periodically use a higher level of zinc on a day here and there rather than use DIM every day - other days I take a moderate level of zinc) and my E2 levels have ben in 20 - 25 range. Clearly hasn't driver my levels down. > > >That would be good if they did that. I would think that if men > were losing their libidos left and right we would have heard about > it. > > Where is he located? I would call. > > > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > > > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > > > down their E and lose their libido? > > > > Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we > can't > > say for sure what's going on. > > > > > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > > > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. > > > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the > young > > doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of > Indolplex. > > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > > > Why don't they publish some blood test results for their > products? How > > easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this > > information to themselves for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Hey Phil: Well, of course, that makes sense. More T, more E -- got it. And, again, I can't thank you enough for turning me on to the Indoplex DIM when you did because Nature's Way and Puritan's Pride DIM were a waste of money. I've been taking the Indoplex DIM for several months now and that was exactly what I needed. Best Regards to You, Gene Re: DIM Discussion Maybe the patented type specifically being rederred to in other pistings is just that much more potent (i.e., crosses into blood more thoroughly, etc.) and so acts much, much sttronger in smaller doses. I beleve that Gene uses quite strong amounts of DIM andhis E2 seems to be in normal ranges.... > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 lrs1951, Thanks for the http://www.bio-response.com/ link. I called them up and asked them about the DIM from Puritan's Pride, Nature's Way, and Phytopharmica Indolplex. They told me that these products all use EXACTLY the same DIM which they manufacture and supply to them. This is good to know. The prices are about $9 at puritans pride and $30 for Phytopharmica Indolplex. > > > >That would be good if they did that. I would think that if men > > were losing their libidos left and right we would have heard about > > it. > > > > Where is he located? I would call. > > > > > > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > > > > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > > > > down their E and lose their libido? > > > > > > Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we > > can't > > > say for sure what's going on. > > > > > > > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > > > > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. > > > > > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the > > young > > > doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of > > Indolplex. > > > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > > > > > Why don't they publish some blood test results for their > > products? How > > > easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this > > > information to themselves for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Gee I must have read and tryed so many brands of DIM and they all used the Dr. name. This one did nothing and they claim to use the Dr.'s pat. http://www.myvitanet.com/dim120tabnat.html Read it and at the bottom of the link. Phil lrs1951 <stat1951@...> wrote: Greg, Here is website for Bio-Response. They make all of these, whether Indoplex or Dim-Plus or whatever. If you scout around I am sure that you can find a contact number or e-mail contact and address this point with them. http://www.bio-response.com/ I use 100mg about 4 - 5 x a week (I periodically use a higher level of zinc on a day here and there rather than use DIM every day - other days I take a moderate level of zinc) and my E2 levels have ben in 20 - 25 range. Clearly hasn't driver my levels down. > > >That would be good if they did that. I would think that if men > were losing their libidos left and right we would have heard about > it. > > Where is he located? I would call. > > > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > > > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > > > down their E and lose their libido? > > > > Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we > can't > > say for sure what's going on. > > > > > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > > > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. > > > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the > young > > doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of > Indolplex. > > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > > > Why don't they publish some blood test results for their > products? How > > easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this > > information to themselves for whatever reason. --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 These are the ingredients of Indolplex: Indolplex® Complex 120 mg * modified food starch, 25% diindolylmethane (DIM), d-alpha tocopheryl succinate, silicon dioxide, and phosphatidylcholine In order that DIM is better absorbed, it is advised that it is to be taken with fats and oils. The d-alpha tocopheryl is vitamin E which usually comes in oil softgels. Perhaps this is the extra ingredient that provides even better absorption for the Bioresponse DIM. I'm not sure what silicon dioxide and phosphatidylcholine are or how they help absorption. > > > >That would be good if they did that. I would think that if men > > were losing their libidos left and right we would have heard about > > it. > > > > Where is he located? I would call. > > > > > > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > > > > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > > > > down their E and lose their libido? > > > > > > Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we > > can't > > > say for sure what's going on. > > > > > > > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > > > > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. > > > > > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the > > young > > > doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of > > Indolplex. > > > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > > > > > Why don't they publish some blood test results for their > > products? How > > > easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this > > > information to themselves for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 You are the man Gene I would give my left nut to look like you. Phil Gene Bowhay <genebowhay@...> wrote: Hey Phil: Well, of course, that makes sense. More T, more E -- got it. And, again, I can't thank you enough for turning me on to the Indoplex DIM when you did because Nature's Way and Puritan's Pride DIM were a waste of money. I've been taking the Indoplex DIM for several months now and that was exactly what I needed. Best Regards to You, Gene Re: DIM Discussion Maybe the patented type specifically being rederred to in other pistings is just that much more potent (i.e., crosses into blood more thoroughly, etc.) and so acts much, much sttronger in smaller doses. I beleve that Gene uses quite strong amounts of DIM andhis E2 seems to be in normal ranges.... > In regard to taking DIM. Many years ago I took DIM as an aid to my > weight training with no connection to taking T at that time. > > I read the book many times and they recommend taking any where from > 200 to 400 mgs for men. > > Many people here say taking too much can knock your E levels down > too much and kill libido. I am not saying that this isn't true. > > If it is true then what about all the men out there NOT on T therapy > taking DIM and taking the larger doses. Why aren't they losing their > libidos if their Estradiol are being reduced. The authors state that > their are no side effects to taking larger doses. > > I don't remember ever having my libido reduced when I was taking DIM > back then. I don't see why that should happen and I would like > someone to and give me an answer to help me understand this better. > > I get the impresion that the DIM acts as an Adaptogin and regulates > the good and bad Estrogins and keeps them at a good level. > > Anyone want to take a stab at this? > > Thanks > Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. Like I said I tryed that shit and so did Gene and it does not work. I will bet you if you called PhytoPharmica.com they would tell you a different story. Phil invest99_2000 <no_reply > wrote lrs1951, Thanks for the http://www.bio-response.com/ link. I called them up and asked them about the DIM from Puritan's Pride, Nature's Way, and Phytopharmica Indolplex. They told me that these products all use EXACTLY the same DIM which they manufacture and supply to them. This is good to know. The prices are about $9 at puritans pride and $30 for Phytopharmica Indolplex. > > > >That would be good if they did that. I would think that if men > > were losing their libidos left and right we would have heard about > > it. > > > > Where is he located? I would call. > > > > > > , you are saying that anybody who is taking the > > > > indoplex bio DIM even those who are not on T will knock > > > > down their E and lose their libido? > > > > > > Theoretically, yes. But unless we can see some blood tests, we > > can't > > > say for sure what's going on. > > > > > > > Why do the authors, whome I tried to contact but couldn't find > > > > there whereabouts, say no side effect of taking large doses. > > > > > > I called Zelig's company a few years ago and talked to one of the > > young > > > doctors about my powerful response to very low dosages of > > Indolplex. > > > She didn't have a whole lot to say. > > > > > > Why don't they publish some blood test results for their > > products? How > > > easy that would be to do? They obviously prefer to keep this > > > information to themselves for whatever reason. --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.