Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

February 18, 2009

In a message dated 2/18/2009 12:52:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

jessicaferg@... writes:

I do feel that there is a time and a place for public

assistance, it is a right and good program (don't hang me for that if you

don't agree...), but when you are on public assistance and you are

continuing to procreate *on purpose* as a single, jobless parent, without

the support of spouse or family, it is just irresponsible, and a little bit

nuts, imo.

===========

I completely agree. We have neighborhoods filled with people that are like

that. Overusing and abusing things that are supposed to be temp. Its

really sad. But you know that all the stuff she is using military families

(not

all but most) can qualify for?

Yet again not sticking up for her just making a minor point.

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February 18, 2009

I thought it was crazy since she has never met this woman. Didn't the TLC

people bubild the Duggar's a house?

OK....I know some of you will find this hard to believe but I have a hunch

that this mom gets her surgery free. She may be working with a couple other

people and could be a donor. Donor's get a free IVF cycle saving as much as

20,000. Maybe she found a way to get plastic surgery free.

I do not think there are many psychologists out there doing evaluations

based on news media. That is crazy.

Her kids are not even living with her because they are in the hospital. The

hospital is not going to send the babies home without a support system in

place.

Being a single mom with 14 kids is pretty crazy to be sure.

Impossible...no....a bad choice.....probably.

I also read about a message posted about the amount of children childcare

providers can take care of.

In Iowa if you have a category B license like 75% of us do 1 person can take

care of 7 kids as long as 4 or less are under 24 months. Of the 4 only 3 can

be under 18 months. In addition to the 7 you can have 4 other children for a

total of 11 as long as it is less than 2 hours at a time (before and after

school programs for example) for in home childcare providers.

Daycare centers can have up to 12 kids per provider as long as the kids are

2 and over. If the kid is under 18 months you can have 4 infants any age under

18 months and 6 infants per provider 18 to 24 months. 12 kids 24 months old

is alot.

Anyone who refers to kids as being part of a litter needs a psychiatric

evaluation themselves in my opinion.

Sperm donors have been around along time. Babies are a miracle from God in

my opinion regardless of what scientific technology was used to get them here.

The issue is if a person who cannot afford to support themselves should be

having more kids through a elective surgical procedure.

That is for God to judge not us.

It is like violence on tv. If you do not like it you can turn it off. Right?

The media is making money on this and that is why there is so much publicity.

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February 18, 2009

Have you ever heard of the Dion (not sure how you spell it) quintuplets? It

was an amazing story about how the quints were taken away from their parents

and exploited.

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February 18, 2009

Becky,

I couldn't agree with you more. Each human life is precious. It is not these

babies faults that they were conceived in such a way and in a multiple

pregnancy. Their mom may have made poor choices, but her babies deserve

respect.

Dana

From: tbniesh@... <tbniesh@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:35 PM

See- this is one of my points-- ANY PERSON-- professional or otherwise, if

they compare a woman giving birth to human lives to animals having litters--

that's just WRONG and-- well, is quite telling about them as a person, too, I

think.

I've heard the term " litters " several times in reference to this woman--

and I think it's a DISGUSTING term used when talking about a human being giving

birth. Truly disgusting

Becky

In a message dated 2/17/2009 9:59:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cp_mistyrose writes:

I read it... I can't believe a professional would use the

words " animals have litters "

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February 18, 2009

I agree that the use of the word " litter " was unnecessary. However, is it

really in the best interest of the children to be in a home situation like

this? I think that large families are awesome when the parent*s* are

mindful about the care of their children. I think it's fantastic that a

family would homeschool - ANY family. However, I feel that with or without

ET's coverage, with or without this woman's lawsuit - this is not a stable

environment for these children. The woman cannot pay for the care of her

children. The Duggars CAN, and could before they had a show on TLC. NS is

unemployed. I do feel that there is a time and a place for public

assistance, it is a right and good program (don't hang me for that if you

don't agree...), but when you are on public assistance and you are

continuing to procreate *on purpose* as a single, jobless parent, without

the support of spouse or family, it is just irresponsible, and a little bit

nuts, imo. I don't care if you have 1 child or 14. Additionally, she does

not seem to think that Medicaid is public assistance - based on what I have

seen in the Dateline interview, so she says she's receiving assistance right

now, but doesn't expect to for long. ??? I don't doubt that she loves

these children. I just can't get over the fact that she did this on purpose

- I know that there is a ton of gray area, and it's easy to sound

hypocritical.

Additionally, I would much prefer that the 1M+ that we all, as taxpayers,

will be shelling out for the care of these children, be used somewhere

else. Think of the hungry children's mouths that could be fed within these

United States with that money - whose parents might have lost their job and

are trying to get back on their feet, or the additional armor we could

provide our armed forces in Iraq or Afghanistan, or whatever else... but it

will be used to take care of this woman's children. And if these children

are going home to someone who can financially, mentally, emotionally and

physically care for them, great. However, if they are going to have

questionable care, I don't know if that's the best place for them. Like I

said, I think large families are great. Most of the time it takes a mom and

a dad to make more babies, and in this case it took a mom and a doctor and a

sperm donor. I think that if people are feeling that the outrage is a

result of the children being born because of IVF, or Nadya Suleman is being

scrutinized because she wants a large family, they are missing the point.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM, <tbniesh@...> wrote:

> See- this is one of my points-- ANY PERSON-- professional or otherwise,

> if

> they compare a woman giving birth to human lives to animals having

> litters--

> that's just WRONG and-- well, is quite telling about them as a person, too,

> I

> think.

>

> I've heard the term " litters " several times in reference to this woman--

> and I think it's a DISGUSTING term used when talking about a human being

> giving

> birth. Truly disgusting

>

> Becky

>

> In a message dated 2/17/2009 9:59:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> cp_mistyrose@... <cp_mistyrose%40> writes:

>

> I read it... I can't believe a professional would use the

> words " animals have litters "

>

> **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.

> (

>

http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies & ncid=emlcntusyelp000\

00003

> )

>

February 18, 2009

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! The Duggars built their current home-- quite literally

from the ground up.

Jim Bob and his sons (and even the girls and little ones helped) built the

entire home. That's why it took a LOT longer than they had anticipated.

Right towards the end, they received help from " outsiders " who were FRIENDS

of theirs who were experts in that particular field with building.

What you might recall TLC doing is sending their decorators in to help

decorate for the family. But I don't believe that TLC paid for that at all--

Becky

In a message dated 2/18/2009 8:18:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stehn4@... writes:

I thought it was crazy since she has never met this woman. Didn't the TLC

people bubild the Duggar's a house?

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February 18, 2009

it was a HORRIBLE horrible life for these precious kids. I believe that some

of them died as a result of being separated from their family and mistreated

for years.

And if someone says that it won't happen to these Octuplets-- I think they'd

be wrong. Of COURSE they will be exploited when there are 8 siblings

together-- that's a miracle in itself, so of course it will be a big thing for

years

and years to come-- just like the other Octuplets (now 7 living)

It's just the nature of the topic with multiple births.

And the worst thing a person could EVER do is to separate those babies from

EACH OTHER

What I would like to see happen, is for people-- the community-- to buck up

and totally see that yes, while this woman made a very stupid and selfish

choice-- her babies shouldn't have to pay the price for it. So if people could

just offer their help and their support, I feel that this woman COULD make it.

I believe that she loves her kids very much and if given the right support,

they will all do well and thrive.

Without that-- the family will most likely be destroyed-- which we all agree

would be sad

Becky

In a message dated 2/18/2009 8:18:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stehn4@... writes:

Have you ever heard of the Dion (not sure how you spell it) quintuplets? It

was an amazing story about how the quints were taken away from their parents

and exploited.

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February 18, 2009

Oh... I did see a piece on TLC and I thought what it had said was that Mr.

Duggar had attended a mind changing conference or seminar about money and

because of that he did not believe in going into det at all. They went on and

told how they shop and buy shoes and clothes. I thought it was really good. At

the time I thought they were living in a house with only 1 bathroom and they

had assigned different times to use the bathroom and how they managed and all.

I thought it showed a metal home that Mr. Duggar had purchased and he had not

realized at the time just how long it would take because it is more

difficult to build a metal house as you have to drill everything. They had the

shell

up but I do not recall any walls inside or anything and the TLC people came

in and finished it and had it all decorated including a grand piano and some

other instruments for the kids. The kids are very musically inclined. The

girls had a dormitory style bedroom and I think it had different dormers but

they

all wanted to stay in the same room which was 1 good thing about it because

they could put walls anywhere they wanted. The living room and kitchen were

very ope, There was the working part of another kitchen off from the kitchen

and Mr. Duggar had purchased some industrial kitchen equipment from a

restaurant so they had a heavy duty dishwasher and some other things.

It turned out to e a beautiful home.

They had a bus I think.

The kids all wore the same color when they went somewhere.

The only part I did not like was the shoes. I thought they bought used

shoes. I could be wrong. I hope they have it on again sometime. It has been on a

couple times. They had some pretty good ideas.

Can you imagine how hard it was to buy a house before the GI bill. You had

to find a way to pay for it.

The school usually gets the kids t shirts that are alike when they go to

adventureland for a field trip.

I think they wore red.

Sounded like a good idea.

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February 19, 2009

I think the Dionne quads were taken away and the parents were determined to

have a low IQ and they were put in the custody of the doctor. They were shown

in windows. There was aloof merchandising centered around them. It would have

been horrible.

I know what you mean about being an emotionally charged issue.

I thought we were done talking about it.

I understand both sides off it.

I hope people understand that although I am old fashioned I believe siblings

should not be seperated. I cannot even imagine what it would be like to have

been seperated from my siblings growing up. I would do everything I could to

keep my kids together even if it meant giving them up.

I agree that adoption is the most unselfish thing a person can do. I also

help a family who has adopted a sibling group.

I appreciate reading all the comments.

I just got done studying the special needs section in my class and got a lot

of feedback about special needs, iep's, 504's and I found some flashcards

with ASL words at The Learning Post store here. I cannot wait to get started.

I take care of 3 different sibling groups in my home.

1 sibling only comes when school is out and another sibling comes half a day

because he is in preschool.

There are usually only 4 or 5 kids here.

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February 19, 2009

I know-- if you have a MOTHER like that-- who needs enemies?

I am sickened by hearing this mother talking about her own child in the

manner that she does.

She's probably behind all the problems that NS has in the FIRST place

Becky

In a message dated 2/19/2009 8:53:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jessicaferg@... writes:

the mother seems to have a huge

amount of contempt for the daughter, and is resentful that she has been put

in this position. She is one of NS's strongest critics

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February 19, 2009

Janice-- These sentiments mirror my own perfectly!

becky

In a message dated 2/19/2009 9:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jscott@... writes:

I am sorry..... but I have to ask myself what kind of mother goes on

National TV to complain about her daughter? I couldn`t imagine doing this to my

kids

in a million years!

Perhaps had this woman provided some nurturing guidance, sound thinking and

common sense principles to her daughters`life, this situation would never

have occurred? The mother is a BIG part of this problem and this situation,

imo.

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February 19, 2009

Yes-- they bought used shoes for the kids. You have a problem with that

though, for real?

Gosh-- millions of people buy used shoes. I personally try to GO GREEN at

all times that I can. We have siblings who might be in 1 size shoe for a nano

second so the shoes are in perfectly good, used condition, so they get passed

on to the next child down. I see that as being the same thing as buying used

shoes from a consignment store-- it's just another way to go green and

recycle. It's so wasteful to toss out perfectly good clothing items, in my

opinion

Becky

In a message dated 2/19/2009 7:23:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stehn4@... writes:

The only part I did not like was the shoes. I thought they bought used

shoes. I could be wrong.

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February 19, 2009

I think the family is already destroyed - the mother seems to have a huge

amount of contempt for the daughter, and is resentful that she has been put

in this position. She is one of NS's strongest critics! I have seen

several interviews with her, where she talks about how irresponsible and

obsessed Nadya is. I have read several times that it *is* possible to make

a psychological evaluation of public figures. I agree that it isn't going

to be very detail oriented and I am definitely not a psychologist or

psychiatrist (I am a librarian though so good at research! .

The Dionne quintuplets lived in Canada and were born in 1934. I don't think

that's a strong comparison for what could happen to these children if they

are taken away from their mother - is that the family you meant? Different

country, different era. Here's a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionne_quintuplets . One died from a seizure

at age 20, one died from a blood clot to the brain at age 35, and one died

of cancer later in her 60's maybe. The remaining 2 are still alive. I am

personally not that familiar with many families of multiples except Jon and

Kate and then the McCaugheys - neither of which (I feel) have been

exploited. I think the nature of IVF has made multiple births much more

common (of course not to the extent of octuplets - yet).

I don't think the *identical* babies should be separated from each other. I

doubt anyone is getting excited over the prospect of separating siblings. I

would bet that very few people are " out to get " NS for fun of it, it's not

fun, and there is a ton of gray area that hasn't been dealt with before

because this is an unprecedented situation, because it is doubtful that most

people would ever choose this. Look at it from the POV of a pregnant

teenager. She made a *choice*, she got pregnant. She can't keep the baby

because she is too young/immature/poor/unsupported to pay for the child.

She doesn't want to have an abortion, so she has the baby, and though it's

the most excruciatingly painful choice she'll ever make, she chooses to put

the child up for adoption because she knows that another family is better

equipped to deal with the child than she is. Or a different situation: A

married wife and husband with two other children get pregnant. They know

THEY cannot afford the child, otherwise the entire family will become

homeless, etc... they elect to put the full sibling of their children up

for adoption so that the baby has a good life, and they can continue to

support their children and family. This most definitely DOES happen. Now,

how is that any different from NS - except she is a little bit older, and

she chose to put these children into this situation. I think that, in

itself, is one of the strongest arguments for a close examination of her

mental state. She is bankrupt and unsupported with 6 other children, 3 of

which have notable special needs, and she still elected to become pregnant

with what she well knew could be multiples.

Additionally, I think that if these babies are taken away from Suleman, she

could very well go off the deep end. I *personally* do think there is

something mentally wrong with her. I also think that having all of the

children with her could cause her to go off the deep end. So do you wait

for an Yates type situation where the mother goes into postpartum

psychosis and does harm to her children, or do you thoroughly evaluate and

scrutinize the situation at the risk of offending some? If we're truly

talking about the best interests of the children, I think scrutiny is called

for.

February 19, 2009

I am sorry..... but I have to ask myself what kind of mother goes on National TV

to complain about her daughter? I couldn`t imagine doing this to my kids in a

million years!

Perhaps had this woman provided some nurturing guidance, sound thinking and

common sense principles to her daughters`life, this situation would never have

occurred? The mother is a BIG part of this problem and this situation, imo.

Janice

Re: [ ] Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism