Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

February 6, 2009

I am so sorry to hear that someone would say that. I am an invitro mom

myself. I made 5 attempts and had 2 kids. It cost 30 thousand. It was worth

every

dime. It changed my life. The people I know who have gone what we went

through are amazingly resourceful people. Many of them have traveled to Canada

because the insurance would not pay for the medication they were taking. Some of

the people I know had tubal ligation revearsals done because the insurance

would not pay for their fertility treatments since they had a voluntary

procedure at 18. The stories are heartbreaking sometimes, second mortgages for

40

thousand dollars to pay for the medical costs participating in a test study to

cover part of the costs, donating some of the eggs because that was the only

way to pay for it and amazingly unselfish people who offered to give of

themselves in ways that most people would not ever consider. We have gone

through a

lot more than most people have to have children. We have had psychological

evaluations, counseling, we have got up at 3am and driven to another state to

have a test done and driven home to go to work for a 10 hour shift the same

day. I have given myself over 300 shots endured hot flashes morning sickness

been accused of being selfish when invitro is probably the most unselfish

thing a person could do. My medication has traveled from a lab by a sherriff to

the airport then by bus where a pharmacist picked it up in the middle of the

night. People really stand up and take notice of you when you pick up your 7

thousand dollar fertinex order at costco. Every time I went to the drugstore

they met the weekly quota just from me. I received a handwritten letter on

parchment paper from Grassley a few years ago after I sent him a letter

explaining my surprise that Principal would pay for Viagra but they will not

pay for fertility drugs. They consider it experimental. Well... I have 2 kids

to prove that it was not an experiment. Life is precious. Do not let the

fact that 1 person who may have done this for the wrong reason ruin it for the

rest of us who are responsible. Most of our doctors were fabulous. Every

positive thing you have ever heard about the Mayo Clinic is true. I would do it

again 10 times over. Did she do this for the wrong reason? Was she

irresponsible? Should her Dr have transferred 8 eggs? I can tell you that there

are

thousands of people who do act responsibly compared to this 1 person. I can

introduce you to the Dr who made me take a break. For some of us it is worth

giving

up every last penny to have what others take for granted...life. May God

Bless and Keep You.

>

http://www.trusera.com/health/stories/trusera_on_autism/octuplets-mom-has-son-wi\

th-autism

>

> It turns out the mom who had 8 kids at one time, and who has six others at

home, has a son with autism, according to MSNBC.

> Here is a quote from a woman who babysat:

> Yolanda , 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for the mother's

autistic son three years ago.

> " From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying

she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all, " told the Long Beach

Press-Telegram.

> " She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how

can you afford that and go to school at the same time? " ' she added. " And she

said it's because she got paid for it. "

> said she did not ask for details.

> Do you think she is irresponsible?

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

>

February 7, 2009

I think that Gabby was using that as a conversational piece or informational

piece.

I don't believe that the comment about " Was she being selfish " was in

regards to the fact that she had in-vitro done, but rather that she has 6 kids

at

home and now another 8 on TOP of those 6, AND the fact that she's a single mom.

She may want a large family-- I totally get that being a mom of 8 children.

Do I care HOW she got those14 kids or if it was from In-Vitro? Absolutely

not! If this were a MARRIED COUPLE I would say-- GOOD FOR THEM.

The very fact that she is a SINGLE WOMAN and that these children have no

father to help raise them, THIS is where she loses me entirely. This is where I

would absolutely agree that she's a selfish person. We all know that even TWO

people raising 14 kids is extraordinarily difficult, but ONE person? That's

a bit over the top, even for ME, a Totally big family supporter!!! (One of

my all time favorite families is the Duggar family just for the record)

And the PRIMARY reason she stated that she wanted a large family was

" because I was an only child and was lonely " . If that's not selfishness-- I'm

not

sure what is??

But-- I am positive that Gabby wasn't referring to this woman receiving

In-Vitro that was irresponsible, but I'm pretty sure it was the fact that she's

a

single woman, and she also HAS NO JOB!

Becky

In a message dated 2/7/2009 9:36:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stehn4@... writes:

I am so sorry to hear that someone would say that. I am an invitro mom

myself. I made 5 attempts and had 2 kids. It cost 30 thousand. It was worth

every

dime. It changed my life. The people I know who have gone what we went

through are amazingly resourceful people. Many of them have traveled to

Canada

because the insurance would not pay for the medication they were taking.

Some of

the people I know had tubal ligation revearsals done because the insurance

would not pay for their fertility treatments since they had a voluntary

procedure at 18. The stories are heartbreaking sometimes, second mortgages

for 40

thousand dollars to pay for the medical costs participating in a test study

to

cover part of the costs, donating some of the eggs because that was the only

way to pay for it and amazingly unselfish people who offered to give of

themselves in ways that most people would not ever consider. We have gone

through a

lot more than most people have to have children. We have had psychological

evaluations, counseling, we have got up at 3am and driven to another state

to

have a test done and driven home to go to work for a 10 hour shift the same

day. I have given myself over 300 shots endured hot flashes morning sickness

been accused of being selfish when invitro is probably the most unselfish

thing a person could do. My medication has traveled from a lab by a sherriff

to

the airport then by bus where a pharmacist picked it up in the middle of the

night. People really stand up and take notice of you when you pick up your 7

thousand dollar fertinex order at costco. Every time I went to the drugstore

they met the weekly quota just from me. I received a handwritten letter on

parchment paper from Grassley a few years ago after I sent him a

letter

explaining my surprise that Principal would pay for Viagra but they will not

pay for fertility drugs. They consider it experimental. Well... I have 2

kids

to prove that it was not an experiment. Life is precious. Do not let the

fact that 1 person who may have done this for the wrong reason ruin it for

the

rest of us who are responsible. Most of our doctors were fabulous. Every

positive thing you have ever heard about the Mayo Clinic is true. I would do

it

again 10 times over. Did she do this for the wrong reason? Was she

irresponsible? Should her Dr have transferred 8 eggs? I can tell you that

there are

thousands of people who do act responsibly compared to this 1 person. I can

introduce you to the Dr who made me take a break. For some of us it is worth

giving

up every last penny to have what others take for granted...life. May God

Bless and Keep You.

>

_http://www.trusera.http://www.http://www.trusehttp://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://www.th\

ttp://www._

(http://www.trusera.com/health/stories/trusera_on_autism/octuplets-mom-has-son-w\

ith-autism)

>

> It turns out the mom who had 8 kids at one time, and who has six others at

home, has a son with autism, according to MSNBC.

> Here is a quote from a woman who babysat:

> Yolanda , 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for the mother's

autistic son three years ago.

> " From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself,

saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all, " told the

Long

Beach Press-Telegram.

> " She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh,

how can you afford that and go to school at the same time? " ' she added. " And

she said it's because she got paid for it. "

> said she did not ask for details.

> Do you think she is irresponsible?

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> _http://stemcellforahttp://stemcellhttp_

(http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/)

>

**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on

AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000\

003)

February 7, 2009

Hi Charlotte,

I'm not sure what was said from Gabby's MSNBC interview that you are

sorry to hear someone say. In my opinion whether or not this single

young mother has a special needs child or not makes no difference in

the fact that she already had 6 children (SIX YOUNG CHILDREN!) and got

implanted with 6 more (SIX MORE) and 2 divided and now she has 8 more.

(that's what I heard the mother claim -others report 8 were implanted)

In my opinion she is completely irresponsible, her mother if she

backed her up on this is irresponsible, her doctors if they did this

knowing her situation are irresponsible...and I felt bad about this

story since I heard it prior to knowing one of the children is

autistic. Yes that makes it even more tragic because we here know how

much more time for therapy and advocating a special needs child takes.

I have a sister in law who is an OT, very intelligent woman. She went

through invitro as well and the first time had my one niece and when

Jess was 3 years old she had invitro again and this time had my niece

and nephew (twins)

I can't even tell you that my sister in law with 2 babies and a 3 year

old almost became a recluse as she said it was too hard to leave to go

anywhere by herself with the 2 babies and the 3 year old.

I'm sure there are others here that would be no problem for....but

even a day care center won't allow the ratio of 1 adult to 14

babies!!!! I think for babies it needs to be 1/4?

When Palin was running this group was in a debate about whether you

can have " one " special needs baby and run the country. I was on the

side of yes she can -because in my opinion that baby not only had his

mother, but his much older loving sisters and brothers, his father,

and probably the best of the best quality care given the situation.

Now we have an unemployed young mother with a special needs child and

13 other babies. At least 8 babies -perhaps the rest are toddlers now

(as if that makes it easier!!!)

So to me this isn't about a mother's love for her children, nor is it

about invitro, to me it's about a very selfish woman who has just

brought 14 babies into this world and is probably going to leave it up

to the rest of the world to help care and raise them. According to

the article below you are talking one million dollars for neonatal

units alone!

Ellen Goodman: Fertility mistreatment

By Ellen Goodman

Published: February 6, 2009

BOSTON: Maybe we owe an apology to the doctors who made the birth

announcement with such pride and excitement. The delivery of eight

babies in five minutes was, they exhaled, " amazing. " The mom was

" incredibly courageous. " All in all it was a " very exciting day, " a

feat for which the 46-member medical team at the California hospital

expected kudos and high fives.

But instead of smiles, they saw jaws drop. Attention turned from the

doctors to the mom, from her courage to her judgment, from the medical

success of this delivery team to the ethical failures of fertility

treatment.

It turned out that Nadya Suleman already had six kids at home. The

Suleman Fourteen don't have a father, they have a sperm donor. They

were apparently all conceived by in vitro fertilization with the last

eight presumably implanted en masse. For good measure, their mother

doesn't have a job. And her family recently filed for bankruptcy.

Before she left the hospital, before the babies left intensive care,

the whole country had gone from " gee whiz " to " are you kidding? "

Everything that we don't really want to talk about in terms of

pregnancy and child rearing - marital status, money, individual

choice, responsibility and technology - had converged in the shouting

and blogging over Nadya Suleman's womb mates.

Does anyone have a right to tell anyone else how many kids to have?

Can only people who can afford them bear children? Do you need a

husband to have a baby? These are questions that make us feel queasy

when we are talking about old-fashioned families. But they take on a

new flavor in the unregulated wild west of fertility technology.

Need we review exactly what's happened since Baby Louise came out of a

petri dish and reproduction became a family business? We now have tens

of thousands of healthy children born every year through fertility

drugs and IVF to delighted families.

Fertility doctors don't say no - nor should they - to single or gay

patients or those who already have children. Doctors do not do home

visits or psychological evaluations or socio-economic profiles on

patients who want children. At most, doctors do what bioethicist

Arthur Caplan calls " a wallet biopsy " to see if they can pay the bill.

We are far more rigorous about accepting people for adoption or foster

care than for fertility treatments. But shouldn't there be limits?

Suleman's mother now famously describes her daughter as " obsessed with

children, " and wishes that she'd chosen to be a kindergarten teacher.

But it turns out that you can have six children and still be treated

for " infertility. " And, here we get to the heart of this case, it

turns out there are no laws in the country limiting the number of

embryos that can be implanted in one womb.

As bioethicist Lori s says, " Women's bodies are not large enough

to hold a litter. " If, as we are told so far, Nadya Suleman was

implanted with eight embryos left over from her earlier treatments, it

is something akin to malpractice. If she wanted all eight implanted

knowing she would refuse to terminate any, it's close to mal-mothering.

The reason why we haven't seen Nadya's fertility doctor on " Larry King

Live " (yet) is that it's against all guidelines to implant more than

one or two embryos in a woman under 35. Given our experience with the

extraordinary high risk of multiple pregnancies for mothers and

babies, anyone who endangers patients ought to lose their license.

This is more than an individual decision. Suleman's babies weighed

between 1 pound 8 ounces and 3 pounds 4 ounces. They will cost at

least $1 million in neonatal care and more if they have the typical

range of disabilities for premature babies. The meter is running at

the neonatal unit.

I wish these eight little people well. I tip my hat to the delivery

team for dealing with an octuplet of problems they didn't create. If

Suleman's brand new publicist succeeds in selling her as a " smart, "

" joyful " mother with a " wonderful sense of humor " who is grateful " for

the miracle of life, " maybe this mother will be able to roll her

degree in child development into a reality program that supports them all.

But right now, a reproductive business that generates so much

controversy has produced a remarkable consensus. Infertility treatment

for an unemployed, single mother of six? Eight embryos in one womb?

There must be a proper word in the medical literature to describe this

achievement. I think the word is " nuts. "

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/06/opinion/edgoodman.1-424180.php

=====

February 7, 2009

If I were a member of the American Medical Association I would take a second

look. I do know of someone who had 21 eggs and donated 7 each to 2 other

couples because it would cover her fertility treatment and she then had 7 eggs

implanted and ended up with triplets. I told her right out that I thought

implanting 7 embryos was crazy. You have to look at the research.

The lady from Iowa Mrs. Mc Cough did not have invitro. With invitro you can

limit the risk of multiple births. The Mc Coughs had 7 and they had the record

for along time. You are right about the risks of birth defects being a lot

higher for multiple births. Two of the kids have a form of CP. I bought there

book. It might help them a little to know that people do care.

I do not know if we should talk about who should and who should not have

kids anyway. I would not want to take care of 14 kids. I do know that there are

people who have kids for the wrong reasons. I know that it was not so long

ago that women did not have a choice about the number of children they could

have and the kids somehow survived. It is not the life that you or I would have

probably chosen but it is someone life.

The county in which I live in has a rule that a registered childcare

provider can only take care of 4 children under the age of 4 and out of the 4

only 3

can be under 18 months. I have taken care of 2 kids that were 2 years old

and 3 kids from the age of 2 months old until they were 1 year old. It was not

terrible. They were all in diapers.

So now I have made the mistake of disclosing something that was deeply

personal to someone that I do not know and for that I am sorry. I should also

have

not taken it so personally.

My comments were very harsh to say the least and for that I am sorry if it

was taken the wrong way but the point I am trying to get across here is that we

need to take a long hard look at why we have to spend all this money for

insurance only to be told that the insurance company does not want to cover all

these things. People resort to taking these chances because they are

desperate to have children and it is such a hardship to pay for these medical

procedures. We drive to Canada because our medication is at least 1 third less

and

it is safe.

It makes all of us look bad when 1 person acts irresponsibly and it should

not be that way. It is not the clinics place to say who can and cannot get 8

eggs implanted but they did have the opportunity to get help for people who act

irresponsibly. They could have and should have simply said, 'NO' the risks

are too high. We do not want to put you in the position where you either 'risk

losing the pregnancy' or have to make the choice of 'selective reduction' We

will not do it. They can refuse. It is not illegal.

The doctors and the medical team should be proud that they were able to

deliver 8 healthy babies.

Charlotte

**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on

AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000\

003)

February 7, 2009

Parents filed bankrupcy? Unemployed? Single? How many of my hard earned tax

dollars are paying for this selfish, irresponsible woman's obsession?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 7, 2009, at 9:23 AM, " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...> wrote: