Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/29/01 2:31:48 PM Central Daylight Time,

editorking@... writes:

<< I had the same situation you are facing now, approval of the RNY, and

denial of the DS. I hired Walter (Obesity Law) to be my advocate.

It was tough to stick it out but this is my life and I would not

settle for second best… I won. >>

May I ask how long it took to get approval and who is your insurance company?

Cindy W in MS

[Guest guest]

This is just my opinion.

" RNY in haste, repent in leisure " . You will have to for all

practical purposes have to live with the results from surgery the

rest of your life. The RNY while a good surgery it reinforces the

idea that you should change your eating habits for life in order to

become and remain thin. Many people buy into this " be good or else "

type surgery. They view it has a chance to change to healthy eating

and exercise habits. I have found in examining my past diet attempts

that I had a honeymoon period when beginning diets. I would start

with all the good intentions that this was it – I vowed that I would

change my eating I would exercise regularly. This would last for up

to two years, then little by little I would start to eat a bit more

for meals, perhaps make poor choices occasionally and miss workouts

or walking, lapsing back into the same habits that made me obese in

the first place. I had tools too, Fen Phen, Meridian etc… It wasn't

enough to keep me on that strait and narrow path. The DS does what

now other diet or surgery could not do, let me eat mostly what I want

and still lose weight. I no longer think about what I need to or

don't need to eat. It has brought about a normal attitude with

food.

The RNY you can regain, with the DS it is all but impossible to

regain all the weight. Do you really want to be five years from now

seeking a DS revision because the RNY failed you? You should think

about that because it is a very real possibility.

I had the same situation you are facing now, approval of the RNY, and

denial of the DS. I hired Walter (Obesity Law) to be my advocate.

It was tough to stick it out but this is my life and I would not

settle for second best… I won.

Teri

BPD/DS 2/5/01

Dr. Hess, Bowling Green, Oh

Weight 287, BMI 50.8, 2/5/01

Weight 207, BMI 37, 5/25/01

The future is what you make it…so make it a good one.

> I'd like to pose this question to whomever cares to answer:

>

> My insurance (BCBS of Alabama through Bellsouth) has denied the DS

as

> " investigational " . I have been toying with the idea of getting

legal

> assistance to represent me & fight this, but of course, there are

no

> guarantees that it will change their mind - and still I would be

out $$$, and

> there is no way of knowing how long it could take -- I'm thinking

maybe a

> year or more!! Lately I've been thinking about just having the

RNY, which

> they will pay for, and just accepting its limitations, and hope for

the best.

> I know of several people who have been happy with the RNY, but

also know of

> several who have had problems or regain. Of course, I'd like to

think I

> wouldn't have those problems, but you never know. I just don't

want to wait

> any longer to have WLS. I have been doing research for a year & a

half about

> the various WLS procedures and made up my mind early this year that

I would

> pursue the DS, but it's not working out. I'd like to get on with

my life and

> put this behind me and I can foresee a long legal battle ahead

with " iify "

> results. What if I decide to fight this and by the time they deny

it again,

> they have also decided to deny the RNY (as some on this list have

suggested)?

> I would be very upset if I was unable to get them to cover ANY

procedure!

>

> Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the

RNY? Did

> they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I

don't know

> what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me

for

> thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the

DS list. I

> would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

>

> Cindy W in MS

> Age: 42

> BMI: 54

> 360 lbs

> 5' 8 "

[Guest guest]

Cindy,

Have you only received your first denial. If so then the next step

is to write an appeal (either yourself or you can hire Walter) within

60 days of you denial. Then they have 60 days under EURISA to

respond. Several have appealed and there is maybe you have a 1/3

chance. Try to emphasise the need why it is medically necessary and

why the DS is the prefered procedure for you.

Only if your are denied again will you have the option of legal

action. You must " exaust " your administrative appeals before legal

remidies can be considered. If you want to stop at that point and do

the RNY then I would understand, but at least go through 1 appeal

letter. It is worth a couple of more months. In the meantime you can

consult an RNY surgeon (if you current one doesn't do RNY) and get

everything in order so you are ready to go.

Good luck, I may be in your shoes soon.

Hull

> I'd like to pose this question to whomever cares to answer:

>

> My insurance (BCBS of Alabama through Bellsouth) has denied the DS

as

> " investigational " . I have been toying with the idea of getting

legal

> assistance to represent me & fight this, but of course, there are

no

> guarantees that it will change their mind - and still I would be

out $$$, and

> there is no way of knowing how long it could take -- I'm thinking

maybe a

> year or more!! Lately I've been thinking about just having the

RNY, which

> they will pay for, and just accepting its limitations, and hope for

the best.

> I know of several people who have been happy with the RNY, but

also know of

> several who have had problems or regain. Of course, I'd like to

think I

> wouldn't have those problems, but you never know. I just don't

want to wait

> any longer to have WLS. I have been doing research for a year & a

half about

> the various WLS procedures and made up my mind early this year that

I would

> pursue the DS, but it's not working out. I'd like to get on with

my life and

> put this behind me and I can foresee a long legal battle ahead

with " iify "

> results. What if I decide to fight this and by the time they deny

it again,

> they have also decided to deny the RNY (as some on this list have

suggested)?

> I would be very upset if I was unable to get them to cover ANY

procedure!

>

> Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the

RNY? Did

> they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I

don't know

> what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me

for

> thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the

DS list. I

> would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

>

> Cindy W in MS

> Age: 42

> BMI: 54

> 360 lbs

> 5' 8 "

[Guest guest]

******** WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST IS THE WORK OF AN ONPINIONATED

S.O.B. IF STRONG OPIONIONS UPSET YOU, READ NO FURTHER!!! *********

> I would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

I guess one could make that argument.

Many folks take the position that each person must decide which

surgery is best for him or her. I'm just not one of those people.

To my mind the RNY is nothing more than an extension of the medical

profession's long-standing policy of attributing morbid obesity to

the moral failings of the patient, rather than seeing it as a medical

problem.

Why do I say this? Because the RNY leaves the patient with a non-

functioning pyloric region, a " stomach pouch " about the size of my

little finger, a large portion of the stomach that is isolated, and

thus cannot be accessed by an endoscope, (not to mention dumping

syndrome, etc.), all in the name of FORCING the patient to eat much

LESS than a normal person -- as though the patient's future life of

enforced starvation is payback for their past life of " gluttony. "

The DS treats the stomach as a vital organ, (which it is), removing

only that part, (the greater curvature), that interferes with the

health of the patient WHILE PRESERVING THE NORMAL FUNCTION OF THIS

VITAL ORGAN. To my mind, the DS surgeon is rather like a surgeon

who, upon discovering that a patient has torn the ligaments in his

knee by playing too much tennis, carefully repairs the torn ligaments

while being very careful not to harm the nerves or other structures

in the joint.

The RNY treats the stomach as though it were just some " thing " that

the fat person uses to eat too much. Going back to my analogy above,

a surgeon who thinks like an RNY surgeon would see the knee itself as

the problem. Therefore, he repairs the torn ligaments, but then also

removes the cartilage from the knee, in order to be sure that the

patient can no longer do harm to himself on the tennis court.

(Not a perfect analogy, I know, but it's all I could come up with on

short notice.)

In other words, in my opinion, the DS reshapes the stomach while the

RNY mutilates the stomach.

Prior to the perfection of the BPD/DS, performing the RNY was

justifiable because it was better than the other alternatives, (i.e.,

no surgery or one of the other really lousy surgeries that were

available). In short, the RNY became the " gold standard " in obesity

surgery because all the other alternatives SUCKED.

Similarly, during the Civil War, amputation was the " gold standard "

treatment for nearly all severe wounds to the limbs. Tens of

thousands of Civil War veterans survived as amputees rather than

dying of gangrene. Given the level of medical knowledge available at

the time, this was a very, very good thing. But, once antibiotics

were introduced, any surgeon who continued to amputate severely

wounded limbs as the primary treatment modality would be considered a

butcher and drummed out of the profession.

I'm not saying that RNY surgeons are butchers, (although I have no

doubt that a number of them are greedy, money-grubbing, no-talent

hacks), they are just ignorant of, and resistant to, the existence of

a much better alternative. I predict that, within the next twenty

years, the RNY will be consigned to the ash-heap of history.

So, go ahead and have the RNY if that's what you feel you must do. I

won't slam you for it. Instead, I will pray that you don't wind up

like one RNY patient I know of, who was never able to eat or drink

much of anything as a post-op, and who as a result died a few months

later.

Tom

[Guest guest]

At 14:39 -0400 6/29/01, CindyW77@... wrote:

>Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the RNY? Did

>they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I don't know

>what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me for

>thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the DS list. I

>would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

Oh, Cindy -- I'm in the same boat! I was even thinking about the

newly-approved Adjustable Gastric Band, thinking that at least I

could lose weight and it would be removeable and I could get the DS

later on if need be.

--stella

--

Stella Sloop MAILTO:serenn@...

5'3 " BMI 51 Weight 292

BC/BS of TN

Dr Booth et al

)O(

[Guest guest]

Cindy,

I'm still pre-op so I can't speak from experience, but I might be going

through the same insurance hell you are. I was scheduled for surgery on 6/26

with approval from Cigna but had to postpone because of a cancer

(fortunately unfounded:})scare. I've rescheduled for 7/13, but my school

system changes over to BCBS on the 1st. I, too, have thought about whether

just to cave and go for RNY. But the thing that stops me is the thought that

even if I got a revision in the future to increase malabsorbtion, I'd still

have lost my pyloric valve, leading to all the possible side effects

(dumping syndrome, not being able to drink water with meals, etc., etc, etc)

for which I rejected RNY in the first place!

Marcia

> Question about RNY vs. DS

>

>

> I'd like to pose this question to whomever cares to answer:

>

> My insurance (BCBS of Alabama through Bellsouth) has denied the DS as

> " investigational " . I have been toying with the idea of getting legal

> assistance to represent me & fight this, but of course, there are no

> guarantees that it will change their mind - and still I would be

> out $$$, and

> there is no way of knowing how long it could take -- I'm thinking maybe a

> year or more!! Lately I've been thinking about just having the

> RNY, which

> they will pay for, and just accepting its limitations, and hope

> for the best.

> I know of several people who have been happy with the RNY, but

> also know of

> several who have had problems or regain. Of course, I'd like to think I

> wouldn't have those problems, but you never know. I just don't

> want to wait

> any longer to have WLS. I have been doing research for a year &

> a half about

> the various WLS procedures and made up my mind early this year

> that I would

> pursue the DS, but it's not working out. I'd like to get on with

> my life and

> put this behind me and I can foresee a long legal battle ahead

> with " iify "

> results. What if I decide to fight this and by the time they

> deny it again,

> they have also decided to deny the RNY (as some on this list have

> suggested)?

> I would be very upset if I was unable to get them to cover ANY

> procedure!

>

> Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with

> the RNY? Did

> they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright?

> I don't know

> what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me for

> thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the

> DS list. I

> would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

>

> Cindy W in MS

> Age: 42

> BMI: 54

> 360 lbs

> 5' 8 "

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the RNY?

Did they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I don't know what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me for thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the DS list.

I would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing

Cindy...

Only you can answer that. I wondered if my insurance came back that way also what I would do. I decided that I made the choice for the DS for a reason and the RNY would not cut it. Only you know what you can live with and what you expect out of this surgery, so if you will be happy then go for it...if not, then fight. I finally ended up borrowing from my parents and am heading to Spain on July 21st to have my DS. So far its costing about 15,000 for 2 weeks (including 4 extra days to play!). Still will be under 25,000 it would cost here in Washington with Dr Heap (who I would have gone to if insurance would have paid) and the loan payment is only 145 a month...course I'll pay it off sooner cause I want one of those tummy tucks...LOL

~~* AJ *~~

BMI 59

Surgery date 7/24/01

going self pay - Dr Baltasar Spain

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.lookin2bthin.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

Oh, Cindy -- I'm in the same boat! I was even thinking about the newly-approved Adjustable Gastric Band, thinking that at least I could lose weight and it would be removeable and I could get the DS later on if need be.

--

I think I'd do that before I'd do the RNY...and you can do it in Mexico for 5000 according to a neighbor...

~~* AJ *~~

BMI 59

Surgery date 7/24/01

going self pay - Dr Baltasar Spain

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.lookin2bthin.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

Terry you make some good points. I do wish to have further discussion on the

statement:

" You will have to for all practical purposes have to live with the results

from surgery the rest of your life. "

While I agree with the statement over all, I want to point out that in my

opinion no matter what surgery we have, the RNY or the DS, all of us must

eventually change our eating habits for the rest of our life. I think this

is important to remember to achieve success for any surgery. Sure it is a

little easier with surgery, but we still have to avoid eating to much of

fats, or sugar or something else for each surgery. I believe the key to

success in this surgery is remembering that this surgery is a tool to help

us change our eating habits, not do it for us.

Discussion? Disagreement?

Thanks,

Nahodil

Woodbridge, VA

Pre-Op Dr. Elariny

Fairfax INOVA Hospital

BPD/DS Part 1 Version 1

Date: TBA

Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

This is just my opinion.

" RNY in haste, repent in leisure " . You will have to for all

practical purposes have to live with the results from surgery the

rest of your life. The RNY while a good surgery it reinforces the

idea that you should change your eating habits for life in order to

become and remain thin. Many people buy into this " be good or else "

type surgery. They view it has a chance to change to healthy eating

and exercise habits. I have found in examining my past diet attempts

that I had a honeymoon period when beginning diets. I would start

with all the good intentions that this was it - I vowed that I would

change my eating I would exercise regularly. This would last for up

to two years, then little by little I would start to eat a bit more

for meals, perhaps make poor choices occasionally and miss workouts

or walking, lapsing back into the same habits that made me obese in

the first place. I had tools too, Fen Phen, Meridian etc... It wasn't

enough to keep me on that strait and narrow path. The DS does what

now other diet or surgery could not do, let me eat mostly what I want

and still lose weight. I no longer think about what I need to or

don't need to eat. It has brought about a normal attitude with

food.

The RNY you can regain, with the DS it is all but impossible to

regain all the weight. Do you really want to be five years from now

seeking a DS revision because the RNY failed you? You should think

about that because it is a very real possibility.

I had the same situation you are facing now, approval of the RNY, and

denial of the DS. I hired Walter (Obesity Law) to be my advocate.

It was tough to stick it out but this is my life and I would not

settle for second best... I won.

Teri

BPD/DS 2/5/01

Dr. Hess, Bowling Green, Oh

Weight 287, BMI 50.8, 2/5/01

Weight 207, BMI 37, 5/25/01

The future is what you make it...so make it a good one.

> I'd like to pose this question to whomever cares to answer:

>

> My insurance (BCBS of Alabama through Bellsouth) has denied the DS

as

> " investigational " . I have been toying with the idea of getting

legal

> assistance to represent me & fight this, but of course, there are

no

> guarantees that it will change their mind - and still I would be

out $$$, and

> there is no way of knowing how long it could take -- I'm thinking

maybe a

> year or more!! Lately I've been thinking about just having the

RNY, which

> they will pay for, and just accepting its limitations, and hope for

the best.

> I know of several people who have been happy with the RNY, but

also know of

> several who have had problems or regain. Of course, I'd like to

think I

> wouldn't have those problems, but you never know. I just don't

want to wait

> any longer to have WLS. I have been doing research for a year & a

half about

> the various WLS procedures and made up my mind early this year that

I would

> pursue the DS, but it's not working out. I'd like to get on with

my life and

> put this behind me and I can foresee a long legal battle ahead

with " iify "

> results. What if I decide to fight this and by the time they deny

it again,

> they have also decided to deny the RNY (as some on this list have

suggested)?

> I would be very upset if I was unable to get them to cover ANY

procedure!

>

> Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the

RNY? Did

> they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I

don't know

> what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me

for

> thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the

DS list. I

> would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

>

> Cindy W in MS

> Age: 42

> BMI: 54

> 360 lbs

> 5' 8 "

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I agree with I think you should give yourself one more appeal and

then go from there. I think it would be well worth the extra effort.

Remember we're all here for you to support you through it.

Nahodil

Woodbridge, VA

Pre-Op Dr. Elariny

Fairfax INOVA Hospital

BPD/DS Part 1 Version 1

Date: TBA

Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

Cindy,

Have you only received your first denial. If so then the next step

is to write an appeal (either yourself or you can hire Walter) within

60 days of you denial. Then they have 60 days under EURISA to

respond. Several have appealed and there is maybe you have a 1/3

chance. Try to emphasise the need why it is medically necessary and

why the DS is the prefered procedure for you.

Only if your are denied again will you have the option of legal

action. You must " exaust " your administrative appeals before legal

remidies can be considered. If you want to stop at that point and do

the RNY then I would understand, but at least go through 1 appeal

letter. It is worth a couple of more months. In the meantime you can

consult an RNY surgeon (if you current one doesn't do RNY) and get

everything in order so you are ready to go.

Good luck, I may be in your shoes soon.

Hull

> I'd like to pose this question to whomever cares to answer:

>

> My insurance (BCBS of Alabama through Bellsouth) has denied the DS

as

> " investigational " . I have been toying with the idea of getting

legal

> assistance to represent me & fight this, but of course, there are

no

> guarantees that it will change their mind - and still I would be

out $$$, and

> there is no way of knowing how long it could take -- I'm thinking

maybe a

> year or more!! Lately I've been thinking about just having the

RNY, which

> they will pay for, and just accepting its limitations, and hope for

the best.

> I know of several people who have been happy with the RNY, but

also know of

> several who have had problems or regain. Of course, I'd like to

think I

> wouldn't have those problems, but you never know. I just don't

want to wait

> any longer to have WLS. I have been doing research for a year & a

half about

> the various WLS procedures and made up my mind early this year that

I would

> pursue the DS, but it's not working out. I'd like to get on with

my life and

> put this behind me and I can foresee a long legal battle ahead

with " iify "

> results. What if I decide to fight this and by the time they deny

it again,

> they have also decided to deny the RNY (as some on this list have

suggested)?

> I would be very upset if I was unable to get them to cover ANY

procedure!

>

> Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the

RNY? Did

> they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I

don't know

> what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me

for

> thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the

DS list. I

> would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

>

> Cindy W in MS

> Age: 42

> BMI: 54

> 360 lbs

> 5' 8 "

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

> Terry you make some good points. I do wish to have further

> discussion on the statement:

>

> " You will have to for all practical purposes have to live with the

> results from surgery the rest of your life. "

>

> I believe the key to success in this surgery is remembering that

> this surgery is a tool to help us change our eating habits, not

> do it for us.

>

> Discussion? Disagreement?

I can speak for myself as a 20+ month postop. Know that everyone is

different and some people do have more food sensitivities, ie. to

fats, etc. But for myself, the " tool " analogy goes only as far as the

moderate stomach restriction. Beyond that, I feel completely and

utterly normal. I eat whatever, whenever, however much I want. My

stomach capacity has increased now to where I can eat a smallish

normal mean. Most people wouldn't even notice that I was eating

slightly less than them. Some days I eat as much as anyone else at

the table. Other days, my capacity it inexplicably small. Never is

there a day anymore where I'm longing for foods I cannot have. FOod

restrictions and diet mentality is a dim memory for me now. I am

free, free, free, FREE!

But that's just me.

Honestly, I think if I were in a position where I absolutely HAD to

get some weight off immediately, but still wanted to reserve the DS

as a future option, I take the AGB over the RNY. At least the stomach

isn't cut in the AGB, and assuming no complications with the band, it

should be a relatively simple matter to convert later to a DS.

M.

---

in Valrico, FL, age 38

Starting weight 299, now 156

Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.0

Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99

http://www.duodenalswitch.com

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/29/01 10:44:47 PM Central Daylight Time,

tlarussa@... writes:

<<

Many folks take the position that each person must decide which

surgery is best for him or her. I'm just not one of those people. >>

Tom, I thank you for your opinion and though it was strong, you made some

very valid points. I appreciate your candor.

Cindy W in MS

[Guest guest]

> As far as sugars are concerned, especially simple ones, they are a problem

> for both the DS and RNY eaters. 2 out of 3 gives the definite advantage to

> the DS!

Not so - DSers can eat sugar with no problems, no illness, no dumping. I

believe more than one post-op here has posted that they eat sugar daily.

From what I've seen, it doesn't appear to impede weight loss. So make that 3

out of 3.

Michele

[Guest guest]

-

Of course you will have to change your eating habits with both surgeries.

However, you are not realizing that there is a vast difference in how much

you will have to change those habits if you go with the RNY.

Also, fats are not much of a problem for DSers. I have talked to many DS

postops who state that they eat as much or more than they did preop. With

the DS, you will have a normal sized stomach eventually and you will be able

to fill it normally. Not so with the RNY. DSers have a real challenge

eating enough protein. Again, this means that the DS presents no problem.

As far as sugars are concerned, especially simple ones, they are a problem

for both the DS and RNY eaters. 2 out of 3 gives the definite advantage to

the DS!

Best -

Nick in Sage

Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

>

>

> This is just my opinion.

>

> " RNY in haste, repent in leisure " . You will have to for all

> practical purposes have to live with the results from surgery the

> rest of your life. The RNY while a good surgery it reinforces the

> idea that you should change your eating habits for life in order to

> become and remain thin. Many people buy into this " be good or else "

> type surgery. They view it has a chance to change to healthy eating

> and exercise habits. I have found in examining my past diet attempts

> that I had a honeymoon period when beginning diets. I would start

> with all the good intentions that this was it - I vowed that I would

> change my eating I would exercise regularly. This would last for up

> to two years, then little by little I would start to eat a bit more

> for meals, perhaps make poor choices occasionally and miss workouts

> or walking, lapsing back into the same habits that made me obese in

> the first place. I had tools too, Fen Phen, Meridian etc... It wasn't

> enough to keep me on that strait and narrow path. The DS does what

> now other diet or surgery could not do, let me eat mostly what I want

> and still lose weight. I no longer think about what I need to or

> don't need to eat. It has brought about a normal attitude with

> food.

>

> The RNY you can regain, with the DS it is all but impossible to

> regain all the weight. Do you really want to be five years from now

> seeking a DS revision because the RNY failed you? You should think

> about that because it is a very real possibility.

>

> I had the same situation you are facing now, approval of the RNY, and

> denial of the DS. I hired Walter (Obesity Law) to be my advocate.

> It was tough to stick it out but this is my life and I would not

> settle for second best... I won.

>

> Teri

> BPD/DS 2/5/01

> Dr. Hess, Bowling Green, Oh

> Weight 287, BMI 50.8, 2/5/01

> Weight 207, BMI 37, 5/25/01

>

> The future is what you make it...so make it a good one.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > I'd like to pose this question to whomever cares to answer:

> >

> > My insurance (BCBS of Alabama through Bellsouth) has denied the DS

> as

> > " investigational " . I have been toying with the idea of getting

> legal

> > assistance to represent me & fight this, but of course, there are

> no

> > guarantees that it will change their mind - and still I would be

> out $$$, and

> > there is no way of knowing how long it could take -- I'm thinking

> maybe a

> > year or more!! Lately I've been thinking about just having the

> RNY, which

> > they will pay for, and just accepting its limitations, and hope for

> the best.

> > I know of several people who have been happy with the RNY, but

> also know of

> > several who have had problems or regain. Of course, I'd like to

> think I

> > wouldn't have those problems, but you never know. I just don't

> want to wait

> > any longer to have WLS. I have been doing research for a year & a

> half about

> > the various WLS procedures and made up my mind early this year that

> I would

> > pursue the DS, but it's not working out. I'd like to get on with

> my life and

> > put this behind me and I can foresee a long legal battle ahead

> with " iify "

> > results. What if I decide to fight this and by the time they deny

> it again,

> > they have also decided to deny the RNY (as some on this list have

> suggested)?

> > I would be very upset if I was unable to get them to cover ANY

> procedure!

> >

> > Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation who went with the

> RNY? Did

> > they regret it or did they accept it and it worked out alright? I

> don't know

> > what to do but I would appreciate any input. Please don't slam me

> for

> > thinking about surgery other than the DS, even though this is the

> DS list. I

> > would much prefer the DS, but the RNY is better than nothing.

> >

> > Cindy W in MS

> > Age: 42

> > BMI: 54

> > 360 lbs

> > 5' 8 "

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

This is true, ,

My husband eats candy every single day and it hasnt stopped his weight loss

one bit!

Judie

Re: Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

>

> > As far as sugars are concerned, especially simple ones, they are a

problem

> > for both the DS and RNY eaters. 2 out of 3 gives the definite

advantage to

> > the DS!

>

> Not so - DSers can eat sugar with no problems, no illness, no dumping. I

> believe more than one post-op here has posted that they eat sugar daily.

> >From what I've seen, it doesn't appear to impede weight loss. So make

that 3

> out of 3.

>

> Michele

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[Guest guest]

> While DSers tolerate sugars as far as dumping (although this apparently

> isn't always so, either)

I've heard of people getting ill from ingesting sugar....even pre-ops at

times. I've even heard pre-ops refer to that as " dumping " . But because of

the DS configuration, " dumping " as RNYers know it is not possible with the

DS. Sugar cannot be " dumped " into the intestinal tract because of our

still-present pyloric valve.

> this is the one area where DSers can sabotage the

> surgery. DSers should always limit sugars, especially simple ones.

I know that's technically true. I personally just eliminate sugars

altogether most of the time, to be on the safe side. But to date, I'm the

only person I know who did. Most posties I know still eat some sugar daily,

and most of them are losing weight faster than I am. Sigh... Sometimes I

wonder if I should eat MORE sugar?

> This is a significant opportunity, albeit a bad one, to pack those

> pounds back on.

From what I've been able to learn from talking to posties and also to my

surgeon and his staff, it's nearly impossible for even a sugar binger to

regain a significant amount of weight. Matter of fact, my nurse said worst

case scenario they had personally seen in that office over the last 12 years

was a regain of 8 pounds. Sounds pretty good to me since I rarely crave

sweets.

> I'd be willing to make it 2.2 out of 3, though.

Tell you what.....I had dinner last night with a RNYer. She's happy and I'm

happy, although she admits she had to " settle " for RNY due to insurance

issues. I felt pretty rotten for her, as she was drooling for my Baklava. I

wouldn't trade my DS.

Michele B., Cols, Ohio

Failed VBG 1986

Revision - Open BPD/DS 7/14/00

Wt 320/183.5 BMI 50.2/28.7 -136.5 pounds in 50 weeks

Dr. P. Maguire, Kettering OH

Self-pay

http://hometown.aol.com/chezmich/index.html

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Michell, 'tis so!

While DSers tolerate sugars as far as dumping (although this apparently

isn't always so, either), this is the one area where DSers can sabotage the

surgery. DSers should always limit sugars, especially simple ones. I

believe that the typical DSer assimilates about 80% of the calories in

simple sugars. I guess that this means that we're 20% better off with the

DS. This is a significant opportunity, albeit a bad one, to pack those

pounds back on. It just doesn't make DSers sick in the process, thus the

reason that some doctors have faith in the RNY and not the DS.

I'd be willing to make it 2.2 out of 3, though.

Best -

Nick in Sage

Re: Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

>

> > As far as sugars are concerned, especially simple ones, they are a

problem

> > for both the DS and RNY eaters. 2 out of 3 gives the definite

advantage to

> > the DS!

>

> Not so - DSers can eat sugar with no problems, no illness, no dumping. I

> believe more than one post-op here has posted that they eat sugar daily.

> >From what I've seen, it doesn't appear to impede weight loss. So make

that 3

> out of 3.

>

> Michele

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/30/01 7:17:05 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

> Although I totally agree that, in most cases, the dumping doesn't

> occur.. but I think it can sometimes

My completely nonmedical-person guess is that although it may not

be " dumping " per se, it may be that the food is now reaching a part

of the intestine in a state that that particular section of intestine

isn't accustomed to handling. I know I'm probably not expressing

myself well, but if the stomach/pylorus/duodenum section is now

directly connected to a section of the intestine that USED to be x

number of feet further down, that section of intestine might have an

insulin reaction akin to dumping when high-sugar stuff hits it. Sound

plausible?

>>

Yes, this could very well be what is happening in many cases. But, I also

think that it is plausable that in some cases the pyloric valve may not

function the same... I'm not sure why... Perhaps the vagas nerve has been

jostled/injured during surgery, perhaps the pylorus becomes 'sluggish'

because the stomach in general becomes rather 'confused' initially in some

cases... I don't think it is permanant but rather a temporary glitch than

some people may experience. But, I agree that such feelings of 'dumping',

etc. could also be attributed to the intestines having to adjust to the new

arrangement.

all the best,

TEresa

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

five months post-op and still feelin' fab!

[Guest guest]

Hi, I wanted the Ds but after many months of reading and training from my

late 91 year old grandmother I decided to go with the RNY. Number one was the

fact that Im 46 and havent been overweight all of my life.After 40 certain

foods just dont sit well like they did in your younger days.I remember my

grandmother changing her eating habits when I was much younger.She was the

light of my life and tought me to be everything I need to know about being a

good mom. I prayed alot and left it up to God.I also feel that since my

insurance company does the research it would never approve a procedure that

would end up harming me. They will pay 100% for open or lap RNY. I did want

the DS to eat what I want but after much thought and remembering how my

grandmother ate well,it was the proof that was there.I want to live healthy

and see my great grandchildren like she did. She never ate after four,only

had a cup of tea and mabey a sweet roll on ocassion. We got into this mess

by eating the wrong foods.I have watched many of my friends who watch their

weight and they eat right. We are what we eat and we have arteries who will

fill up with all the bad things if we put them in. In our old days we will

need many of the vitamins from the good foods to help us have a common bowel

movement,if we have the DS ,could we lose the nourishment? There is not

enough research on it, in my opinion.It is an easy way out if you dont have

the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right like

I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what is

good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of normal

strength. Again that is my opinion.I wanted to have the corrective eye

surgery and my mom told me to wait and now some patients are having

problems.That is why they have research and rules. God bless you with the

journey of your choice. yours,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/14/01 10:23:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

shs43bulldog@... writes:

> If I have the

> DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

> sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right

> like

> I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

> did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

> gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what

> is

> good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

> refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

> neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of

> normal

> strength. Again that is my opinion.I wanted to have the corrective eye

> surgery and my mom told me to wait and now some patients are having

> problems.That is why they have research and rules. God bless you with the

> journey of your choice.

I respect your decision, but I've watched several people get the RNY and its

made me even glader I've gotten a DS. They throw up all the time, couldnt

and can't eat much of anything without it making them so all I hear is

complaints from them. I'm sure there are many people that don't have it this

hard...but I just had the DS....I find I don't want cookies and cake and all

the bad stuff I used to stuff down my throat. I can eat a wide variety of

food and more than someone with an RNY so I feel I'm getting better

nutrition. I suppose there are good and bad to both surgeries...but you made

it sound like with the DS you can sit and eat junk all day. I don't think

thats true if you really care about yourself. I think if you do it and

follow the plan...protein first etc, there isn't much room for junk food and

when there is...you really don't want it like you did in the past. I can't

explain the changes in my eating...I like things I hated before and vise

versa. I feel like its changed my habits to what they should be. I'm no

longer drinking 4 or 5 diet sodas a day....(I have a sip maybe once a week

when I want something fizzy), I don't eat anything like cookies or cake (I

had 3 bites of a cookie because my son made them....but that was all I

wanted...), I eat protein and veggies (even ones I used to hate!).

I just wanted to point out that the DS is over 10 years old...its doing alot

of good for alot of people and we will always be able to eat a bit better

because we have more room. I personally see the RNY as a punishment for not

being able to control you food intake....little tiny abnormal size pouch and

all the problems that go with it. But that's just my personal take on it.

We all have to decide which surgery we believe in and feel is right for

us...that I truly believe and I'm very happy with my decision...and I hope

everyone else is too...that is what is important...not which surgery is

better.

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/14/01 10:23:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

shs43bulldog@... writes:

> If I have the

> DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

> sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right

> like

> I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

> did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

> gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what

> is

> good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

> refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

> neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of

> normal

> strength. Again that is my opinion.I wanted to have the corrective eye

> surgery and my mom told me to wait and now some patients are having

> problems.That is why they have research and rules. God bless you with the

> journey of your choice.

I respect your decision, but I've watched several people get the RNY and its

made me even glader I've gotten a DS. They throw up all the time, couldnt

and can't eat much of anything without it making them so all I hear is

complaints from them. I'm sure there are many people that don't have it this

hard...but I just had the DS....I find I don't want cookies and cake and all

the bad stuff I used to stuff down my throat. I can eat a wide variety of

food and more than someone with an RNY so I feel I'm getting better

nutrition. I suppose there are good and bad to both surgeries...but you made

it sound like with the DS you can sit and eat junk all day. I don't think

thats true if you really care about yourself. I think if you do it and

follow the plan...protein first etc, there isn't much room for junk food and

when there is...you really don't want it like you did in the past. I can't

explain the changes in my eating...I like things I hated before and vise

versa. I feel like its changed my habits to what they should be. I'm no

longer drinking 4 or 5 diet sodas a day....(I have a sip maybe once a week

when I want something fizzy), I don't eat anything like cookies or cake (I

had 3 bites of a cookie because my son made them....but that was all I

wanted...), I eat protein and veggies (even ones I used to hate!).

I just wanted to point out that the DS is over 10 years old...its doing alot

of good for alot of people and we will always be able to eat a bit better

because we have more room. I personally see the RNY as a punishment for not

being able to control you food intake....little tiny abnormal size pouch and

all the problems that go with it. But that's just my personal take on it.

We all have to decide which surgery we believe in and feel is right for

us...that I truly believe and I'm very happy with my decision...and I hope

everyone else is too...that is what is important...not which surgery is

better.

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< It is an easy way out if you dont have

the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right like

I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what is

good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of normal

strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

: I think you have made the correct choice for you, too. I've found

that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the stricter

limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op, the need

for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I disagree that

the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as there is a

certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we choose the DS

anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who have the

RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high fat and

sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In fact, one

would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The fat one

eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the system.

Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can be*, but

there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY. NOT

everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not evaluated

merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to both but I

am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong emotional

component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY folk view

their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external force to

control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some pain,

sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have developed

proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think many RNY folk

are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual level.

Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't want a

malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that might

make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear are

purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack thereof), fear

of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a strong, strong

desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical, factual

aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know there are

emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to control us

anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to the large

degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to eat or

behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh of relief

when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live without

food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us anywhere

anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in their

everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always question

their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning it).

We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the whole, are

very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this *may come* a

certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will discuss

and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is true for

EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity is mainly

a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the various

emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our emotional issues

are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating and food

per se. Does that make sense?

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 229

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< It is an easy way out if you dont have

the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right like

I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what is

good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of normal

strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

: I think you have made the correct choice for you, too. I've found

that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the stricter

limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op, the need

for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I disagree that

the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as there is a

certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we choose the DS

anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who have the

RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high fat and

sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In fact, one

would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The fat one

eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the system.

Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can be*, but

there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY. NOT

everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not evaluated

merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to both but I

am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong emotional

component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY folk view

their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external force to

control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some pain,

sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have developed

proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think many RNY folk

are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual level.

Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't want a

malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that might

make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear are

purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack thereof), fear

of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a strong, strong

desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical, factual

aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know there are

emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to control us

anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to the large

degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to eat or

behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh of relief

when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live without

food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us anywhere

anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in their

everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always question

their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning it).

We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the whole, are

very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this *may come* a

certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will discuss

and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is true for

EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity is mainly

a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the various

emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our emotional issues

are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating and food

per se. Does that make sense?

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 229

[Guest guest]

> Hi, I wanted the Ds but after many months of reading and

> training from my late 91 year old grandmother I decided

> to go with the RNY.

Good luck to you, . I hope that you do well with the RNY. It

will certainly require you to modify your behavior in order to be

successful over the long term, and that seems to be what you want.

In my opinion, many of not most of your conclusions are based on

societal (and grandmotherly <g>) influence. So much of what you say

is feelings-based -- what we " should " do, how we " should " be in

order to be " acceptable " . You and only you can make the final

decision for yourself, but I do hope you are aware that the hard

medical data doesn't necessarily mesh with your conclusions.

Here's my opinion on a few of your statements:

> She [your grandmother] never ate after four,only

> had a cup of tea and mabey a sweet roll on ocassion.

Seeing how your grandmother was is compelling to you, I'm sure. But

eating nothing after 4pm is certainly not an ideal scenario. I don't

think you'll find any established doctor who will advise such a

routine.

> We got into this mess by eating the wrong foods.

If a food doesn't hurt you, how can it be " wrong " ? Post-DS, many of

the foods that were previously " bad " are transformed into " good "

foods.

> We are what we eat and we have arteries who will

> fill up with all the bad things if we put them in.

If we aren't absorbing the fat, it can't get into our arteries.

> In our old days we will need many of the vitamins from

> the good foods to help us have a common bowel

> movement,if we have the DS ,could we lose the nourishment?

What " good foods " are you referring to here? Certainly the DS causes

us to malabsorb a portion of our nutrients. That's why we get our

annual labs -- so we can keep tabs on everything and tweak our

supplements if it should become necessary. I actually feel better

about my health now that I'm getting regular bloodwork and can SEE

the status of various nutrients. Before surgery, I never had my

blood checked, and never took a vitamin, and ASSUMED that everything

was A-OK. Now, I don't assume anything-- I get my labs and I know

for sure what my status is.

> It is an easy way out if you dont have the discipline

> to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.

THREE CHEERS for the easy way! Whoo hoo!!! Thank you God for

providing this answer for me! Not a lot of discipline required -- I

hate that crap. Protein first, avoid too many simple sugars, take

the vitamins, get the labs -- and the rest will fall into place. Hip

hip hooray!

> If I have the DS and eat what I want I would be dead in

> twenty years with all the fat and sugar that most obese

> people consume.

If you don't absorb fat, it can't hurt you. No WLS procedure causes

malabsorption of sugar, even the RNY. And dumping syndrome is not

guaranteed. Some people never dump, and many who DO dump lose the

dumping after awhile. I'd hate to choose RNY thinking that dumping

was going to " keep me in line " and then have that bite me in the

butt.

> I want to teach myself to eat again.

With the RNY, you will have to do that, no doubt.

> This time I know what is good and bad.

How's that? By the dumping that'll get you if you eat

something " bad " ?

> God bless you with the journey of your choice.

You too, . I wish you the best of luck and truly do hope that

you succeed with whatever procedure you choose!

Hugs,

M.

---

in Valrico, FL, age 39

Starting weight 299, now 156

Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.0

Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99

http://www.duodenalswitch.com

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...

[Guest guest]

> Hi, I wanted the Ds but after many months of reading and

> training from my late 91 year old grandmother I decided

> to go with the RNY.

Good luck to you, . I hope that you do well with the RNY. It

will certainly require you to modify your behavior in order to be

successful over the long term, and that seems to be what you want.

In my opinion, many of not most of your conclusions are based on

societal (and grandmotherly <g>) influence. So much of what you say

is feelings-based -- what we " should " do, how we " should " be in

order to be " acceptable " . You and only you can make the final

decision for yourself, but I do hope you are aware that the hard

medical data doesn't necessarily mesh with your conclusions.

Here's my opinion on a few of your statements:

> She [your grandmother] never ate after four,only

> had a cup of tea and mabey a sweet roll on ocassion.

Seeing how your grandmother was is compelling to you, I'm sure. But

eating nothing after 4pm is certainly not an ideal scenario. I don't

think you'll find any established doctor who will advise such a

routine.

> We got into this mess by eating the wrong foods.

If a food doesn't hurt you, how can it be " wrong " ? Post-DS, many of

the foods that were previously " bad " are transformed into " good "

foods.

> We are what we eat and we have arteries who will

> fill up with all the bad things if we put them in.

If we aren't absorbing the fat, it can't get into our arteries.

> In our old days we will need many of the vitamins from

> the good foods to help us have a common bowel

> movement,if we have the DS ,could we lose the nourishment?

What " good foods " are you referring to here? Certainly the DS causes

us to malabsorb a portion of our nutrients. That's why we get our

annual labs -- so we can keep tabs on everything and tweak our

supplements if it should become necessary. I actually feel better

about my health now that I'm getting regular bloodwork and can SEE

the status of various nutrients. Before surgery, I never had my

blood checked, and never took a vitamin, and ASSUMED that everything

was A-OK. Now, I don't assume anything-- I get my labs and I know

for sure what my status is.

> It is an easy way out if you dont have the discipline

> to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.

THREE CHEERS for the easy way! Whoo hoo!!! Thank you God for

providing this answer for me! Not a lot of discipline required -- I

hate that crap. Protein first, avoid too many simple sugars, take

the vitamins, get the labs -- and the rest will fall into place. Hip

hip hooray!

> If I have the DS and eat what I want I would be dead in

> twenty years with all the fat and sugar that most obese

> people consume.

If you don't absorb fat, it can't hurt you. No WLS procedure causes

malabsorption of sugar, even the RNY. And dumping syndrome is not

guaranteed. Some people never dump, and many who DO dump lose the

dumping after awhile. I'd hate to choose RNY thinking that dumping

was going to " keep me in line " and then have that bite me in the

butt.

> I want to teach myself to eat again.

With the RNY, you will have to do that, no doubt.

> This time I know what is good and bad.

How's that? By the dumping that'll get you if you eat

something " bad " ?

> God bless you with the journey of your choice.

You too, . I wish you the best of luck and truly do hope that

you succeed with whatever procedure you choose!

Hugs,

M.

---

in Valrico, FL, age 39

Starting weight 299, now 156

Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.0

Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99

http://www.duodenalswitch.com

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...