circumcision

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/01 2:48:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

BGREEN2286@... writes:

<< My daughter chose not to

sexually mutilate our grandson with being circumcised. How do we now deal

with the other little boys that are circumcised teasing our grandson about

being differebt. It hasn't happened yet but we know it is coming. Have any

of

you gone through any of this? >>

Our 1st son was born 8 weeks ago and we left him intact. Honestly the

thought of other boys " teasing " him crossed my mind for maybe a split second

and I brought it up to my husband(since I am not a boy I have no idea what

boys discuss LOL). And he made a very good point, if you are a middle

schooler on up and are in gym class changing in front of the guys the LAST

thing you do is look at one another penis' and if you do then watch out for

being ridiculed yourself. Now sure you hear of guys " comparing " their penis'

but have never heard of guys that actually sit there naked and compare the

size/length ect. Not sure if you have ever noticed or even seen but an

intact erect penis looks just like a cut one. Is my son the same as my

husband as far as remaining intact? No. If he ever asks questions then we

will tell him why we left him intact but to be quite honest ask some guys if

their dads were cut or intact and most of them won't even be able to tell

you. Congratulations to your daughter for going against the population and

sticking up for your grandson's rights. I know I got some weird questions

asked from some of the nurses at the hospital when I said I wasn't going to

sign the circumcision papers.

Tami

[Guest guest]

>My daughter chose not to

>sexually mutilate our grandson with being circumcised. How do we now deal

>with the other little boys that are circumcised teasing our grandson about

>being differebt. It hasn't happened yet but we know it is coming.

When will your grandson be left to hang around naked with a group of other

boys to even notice? There *is* the locker room scene to look forward to,

however, if your grandson is hanging out with other boys that sit around

pointing at each others penises, then you have another can of worms to deal

with. Perhaps a new group of friends is in order.

If we stop to remember that every person's body is different, no matter of

circumcision or not, it is easier when our children come to us with such

questions. If you take a look at any of the " Joy of Sex " type books (not to

get wierd or anything), they often have a couple of pages of pictures of

different penises for comparison. Sometimes you can't even tell if they have

been snipped or not. I personally know of one that HAS been snipped but

looks *completely* un. And another that was and was snipped so horribly that

there is almost no skin left and was told that was normal (apparently many

of the boys that had been seen by that particular doctor DID have the same

amount snipped). Every doctor has his own snipping style, so to say.

I think this falls under the same category as people who chose circumcision

for the reason that they want thier son to look like Daddy. Of course a

child will look different from Daddy, even if they are both circumcised.

Everyone naturally looks different.

If your grandson is older and has general concerns about that part of his

body, Chinaberry Books ( http://www.chinaberry.com/ ) always has a good, and

safe, selection of books dealing with changing bodies, puberty and the like,

both for the parents of children going through it and ones geared for the

children themselves to read. I think the trick is to be descreet when

gifting a book like that. That is a very sensitive time of life for a young

person.

My uncircumsized almost 10 year old has never been in a situation of being

poked fun of because of his foreskin. We also though, tend to hang out with

more of a alternative type group of people. So *IF* it ever does come up,

most of the others have not been either. Perhaps just having a friend that

is not would be a help. If they are quite young, bathtime or swim changing

times would give the chance to notice, but again, at a young age, they

wouldn't even know to make fun of another for such a thing.

I think because of trend, it is not so uncommon for boys to be left intact.

If anything, it may be more of a topic of interest than a topic for ridicule

between older boys.

I think in general though, it is really not a subject to be concerned about.

I think as parents and caretakers, we tend to put our own fears and concerns

on children, expecting the same from them. I think most young boys are way

too busy with other things to even notice. Or if anything, too concerned

with somebody seeing thier own to poke fun at anybody elses.

And if all else fails, find other noncircumcised friends for him to play

with. It is always good to have allies!

Katrina

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

It's considered normal for a boy because there is a religion that calls for

the circumcision of male children.

It is not viewed as mutilation, but rather of doing God's will for that

child. The circumcision of females is considered sexual mutilation because

in no religion is there a call to perform that ceremony. - It is done

rather, out of deference to the girls future husband. Practicing Jews who

don't circumcise have a very hard time with it because there is a direct

command to have it performed and thus directly go against a directive from

God. Very tough situation for them and you must have empathy for both

parties involved.

---I spoke with a few members of my family who are not circumcised as I was

looking into the whole issue before the birth of my son. They told me a few

things...one, - most little boys avoid looking at each others penis', two,

ALL older boys avoid looking at each others penis' :~) , and - if they do,

" sneak-a-peek, they don't say anything. Once, I was told, someone did

notice, and my relative just said something like -- " yeah, part of you got

cut off, I still have the whole thing "

A real non-issue.

~le

circumcision

> I think what makes us different is that we have taken it upon ourselves to

> educate ourselves about something most people just take as safe because

the

> tube in our living room has told us we need to vaccinate our kids. if you

> want someone to believe something in this country just put it on TV often

> enough and it will be looked upon as truth.

> I am a newcomer to this group but I have found my niche, and I am enjoying

> all the e-mail.

> I have often wondered why a circumcision of a girl child was considered

> sexual abuse but on a boy it is considered normal? My daughter chose not

to

> sexually mutilate our grandson with being circumcised. How do we now deal

> with the other little boys that are circumcised teasing our grandson about

> being differebt. It hasn't happened yet but we know it is coming. Have any

of

> you gone through any of this?

> Thanks for a great group.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<< How do we now deal

with the other little boys that are circumcised teasing our grandson about

being differebt. It hasn't happened yet but we know it is coming. Have any

of

you gone through any of this?>>

It's not going to happen. What guy wants to admit he was checking out

another guy's equipment????

Besides, non-circ rates are way up. Our ped in OR checked my older son at

his first well baby checkup (this was before I knew better, guys!) and said,

" Oh, good, you're a non mutilating mom! "

Goldmeer

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/2001 5:00:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

brittgower@... writes:

> I had the ped say a similar thing to me... " Casey thanks you, " or

> something to that effect. It was clear she was opposed to it, yet

> still did it. Guess you can't turn down that easy money

>

The ped that saw Colin in the hospital told us to make sure that we found a

ped that wouldn't try to talk us into having it done, I was really impressed

with that.

Sara

Colin's Ap Mama

A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf.

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[Guest guest]

> Besides, non-circ rates are way up. Our ped in OR checked my older

son at

> his first well baby checkup (this was before I knew better, guys!)

and said,

> " Oh, good, you're a non mutilating mom! "

I had the ped say a similar thing to me... " Casey thanks you, " or

something to that effect. It was clear she was opposed to it, yet

still did it. Guess you can't turn down that easy money

Britt

[Guest guest]

In our area the OBs did the circs, not the peds. As far as I know.... not

like I looked into it that carefully. My dad isn't circed, my hubby isn't

circed, and my mom said that if she had known what agony my brother would go

through she wouldn't have done it either.

Goldmeer

Re: circumcision

> Besides, non-circ rates are way up. Our ped in OR checked my older

son at

> his first well baby checkup (this was before I knew better, guys!)

and said,

> " Oh, good, you're a non mutilating mom! "

I had the ped say a similar thing to me... " Casey thanks you, " or

something to that effect. It was clear she was opposed to it, yet

still did it. Guess you can't turn down that easy money

Britt

[Guest guest]

My dh is 41 and does not recall any teasing from other boys. My 3 sons have

gone swimming with their preschool class and no one has pointed them out as

" different " . I have yet to go through an older child as my oldest is 9 and in a

very small school where there is no showers... so no nudity. My dh was a geek

in school though but I would think that would have left him open for further

teasing. I just make sure I tell my boys why they will look different and why I

chose to leave them natural. Laurie

How do we now deal

with the other little boys that are circumcised teasing our grandson about

being differebt. It hasn't happened yet but we know it is coming. Have any of

you gone through any of this?

Thanks for a great group.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/2001 5:48:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

@... writes:

> My dad isn't circed, my hubby isn't

> circed, and my mom said that if she had known what agony my brother would go

> through she wouldn't have done it either.

>

What agony? Does she mean the agony at the time of the circ, or did

something happen? A woman in my LLL group had her son circed and they messed

up, his poor little penis is pretty messed up.

Sara

Colin's Ap Mama

A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf.

Come see us at <A

HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > </A>h<A

HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsap\

mama/</A>

[Guest guest]

Just for some humor...

when I took my son to one of his well baby-visit(some 9 years ago) the doctor

informed me how to clean him(in other words, HandsOff!)and I expressed some

concern about other children teasing him. The doc replied he'll be so big, they

won't dare! I'm still not sure if he meant penis-size or body-size as he was a

baby in the 90th percentile and intact boys look bigger than cut(as far as I've

noticed).Laurie

Honestly the

thought of other boys " teasing " him crossed my mind for maybe a split second

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 5:55:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

colinsapmama@... writes:

<< A woman in my LLL group had her son circed and they messed

up, his poor little penis is pretty messed up. >>

The ped I went to at first really had no clue what she was talking about.

First the ped said " oh he isn't circumcised, yeah I wish I would have left

our son who is 2 intact, I don't like the way his circ was done, they left

too much skin " So in other words she contraindicted herself, first she

wanted the skin left and then she said there was too much skin left. I think

that little boy will be greatful if infact there is extra skin there that

wasn't cut away.

Tami

[Guest guest]

Pediatricians do not do circs unless they aren't done in the hospital. They

can, but it's usually the OB doctor that does them.

Sherri

Re: circumcision

> Besides, non-circ rates are way up. Our ped in OR checked my older

son at

> his first well baby checkup (this was before I knew better, guys!)

and said,

> " Oh, good, you're a non mutilating mom! "

I had the ped say a similar thing to me... " Casey thanks you, " or

something to that effect. It was clear she was opposed to it, yet

still did it. Guess you can't turn down that easy money

Britt

[Guest guest]

here it's a urologist

Kathy in Canada

> Pediatricians do not do circs unless they aren't done in the hospital.

They

> can, but it's usually the OB doctor that does them.

>

> Sherri

>

>

> In our area the OBs did the circs, not the peds. As far as I know....

not

> like I looked into it that carefully. My dad isn't circed, my hubby

isn't

> circed, and my mom said that if she had known what agony my brother

would go

> through she wouldn't have done it either.

>

> Goldmeer

[Guest guest]

At 10:32 AM 10/09/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>Pediatricians do not do circs unless they aren't done in the hospital. They

>can, but it's usually the OB doctor that does them.

>

>Sherri

Unless something has changed - the pediatricians I used to work for did

them in the hospital. It was a constant battle between peds and ob - who

would do them. Who would get the money. Peds felt they were responsible

for the kid and ob for the mom.

Sheri

>

> RE: Re: circumcision

>

>

>In our area the OBs did the circs, not the peds. As far as I know.... not

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK

530-740-0561 Voicemail in US

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

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[Guest guest]

Just the pain of the circ. He apparently really howled in pain.

<<

What agony? Does she mean the agony at the time of the circ, or did

something happen? A woman in my LLL group had her son circed and they

messed

up, his poor little penis is pretty messed up.

>>

[Guest guest]

That's great! If any, they're the ones who SHOULD do it....I read

somewhere once that they don't mess up the way the other's do

> here it's a urologist

> Kathy in Canada

>

>

>

>

> > Pediatricians do not do circs unless they aren't done in the

hospital.

> They

> > can, but it's usually the OB doctor that does them.

> >

> > Sherri

> >

> >

> > In our area the OBs did the circs, not the peds. As far as I

know....

> not

> > like I looked into it that carefully. My dad isn't circed, my

hubby

> isn't

> > circed, and my mom said that if she had known what agony my

brother

> would go

> > through she wouldn't have done it either.

> >

> > Goldmeer

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have a friend that didn't circum. her boys. Anyway, her oldest and

my oldest were taking a bath together wehn they were younger.

said to me after they got out, " Why is his penis bigger than mine, and it

looked funny. " We just laughed and laughed. I explained to him that he was

circum. and the other little boy wasn't. It wasn't a big deal at all. So,

I would just be honest and explain how some boys are circum. and some are

not. That is what we have and are doing with our boys. We are hoping that

they won't have their sons circum. if and when they have any. We hope that

they learn from our mistakes.

Sunflower,(So. California and wife of a Marine)

Homeschooling, BF, AP, FB , CD, Non-Vaxing Mommy to

" " (7/92)

Tristen River(3/97)

Trinity Kaya Rose(10/2000 born at home.)

AIM:Sunflowernights

:Sunflwrmom01

MSN:Sunflower

>From: BGREEN2286@...

>Reply-Vaccinations

>Vaccinations

>Subject: circumcision

>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 14:33:30 EDT

>

>I think what makes us different is that we have taken it upon ourselves to

>educate ourselves about something most people just take as safe because the

>tube in our living room has told us we need to vaccinate our kids. if you

>want someone to believe something in this country just put it on TV often

>enough and it will be looked upon as truth.

>I am a newcomer to this group but I have found my niche, and I am enjoying

>all the e-mail.

>I have often wondered why a circumcision of a girl child was considered

>sexual abuse but on a boy it is considered normal? My daughter chose not to

>sexually mutilate our grandson with being circumcised. How do we now deal

>with the other little boys that are circumcised teasing our grandson about

>being differebt. It hasn't happened yet but we know it is coming. Have any

>of

>you gone through any of this?

>Thanks for a great group.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

I've always wondered why peds here did not do them. Sorry, I guess I

assumed that obs did them everywhere. Here OBs do them, peds do not. I

never quite understood that.

Sherri

RE: Re: circumcision

>

>

>In our area the OBs did the circs, not the peds. As far as I know.... not

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK

530-740-0561 Voicemail in US

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

I was reading about the extra skin. If they don't leave enough they they

don't have room to grow. I was not really that interested at the time since

my 3 boys are intact. It did seem to be a problem if they left to little.

Also wondered why it was done at all if the doctor left to little.

I remmeber the nurses making a joke when my dd was born about not having to

sign a consent form for her to be circed.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your kind response, I will transfer it to my daughter so she

can read it also. I am glad that you and your husband chose not to circumcise

your youngest, I think it will be a new trend someday, at least I hope that

more parents think before they subject their sons to that painful and useless

procedure.

I had a son that was circumcised at birth 38 years a go and I remember asking

at that time if it would hurt him and I was told that babies didn't feel

pain! How ridiculous, I was young and very unknowing at that age.

I thank God that I am here to help advise my daughter and enjoy my

grandchildren.

The statement that you said about the funny looks you got when you refused to

sign the circumcision papers reminded me of when our granddaughter was born 3

years ago in November. They wanted to give our baby Hepatitis vaccine before

she was 24 hours old and were literally shocked when we refused, I think that

we were probably the only people that had ever refused that vaccine. Can't

you only get hepatitis from tainted blood or sharing needles or sex. How

could a new baby even get exposed to hepatitis?

Thanks again,

Blanche Green

[Guest guest]

Thank You for your response. I will forward to my daughter. It is true that

it is a jewish tradition for the boys to be circumcised because it is written

in the Old Testament. They dont believe in Jesus Christ so they still go by

that part of the Bible.

As Christians we go by the New testament and therefore the Old Testament is

passed away, I think I am right.

I still say it is sexual mutilation even in boys although it is called

circumcision.

That foreskin was put there by nature, who are we to make a decision for

another living being and do that so casually, in something that will always

be, once it is done.

Thanks again,

Blanche

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response, I will forward it to my daughter. Very helpful.

Blanche

[Guest guest]

Hi, Blanche!

Hooray for your granddaughter that you refused the Hep B vaccine! I was not

lucky enough to even be asked. The pediatrician in the hospital just informed

me that my son and daughter had been vaxed. I was furious as I did not want

them vaxed. I had not been told about this by anyone so I was completely

shocked when I had my son. When I had my daughter, I had forgotten and they did

it again. I am so furious, as both my children have been brain injured by the

vaccinations, particularly my daughter who is Epileptic, Autistic and Mentally

Retarded. Your granddaughter should thank her lucky stars every day that her

family protected her from brain injury.

Re: circumcision

Thank you for your kind response, I will transfer it to my daughter so she

can read it also. I am glad that you and your husband chose not to circumcise

your youngest, I think it will be a new trend someday, at least I hope that

more parents think before they subject their sons to that painful and useless

procedure.

I had a son that was circumcised at birth 38 years a go and I remember asking

at that time if it would hurt him and I was told that babies didn't feel

pain! How ridiculous, I was young and very unknowing at that age.

I thank God that I am here to help advise my daughter and enjoy my

grandchildren.

The statement that you said about the funny looks you got when you refused to

sign the circumcision papers reminded me of when our granddaughter was born 3

years ago in November. They wanted to give our baby Hepatitis vaccine before

she was 24 hours old and were literally shocked when we refused, I think that

we were probably the only people that had ever refused that vaccine. Can't

you only get hepatitis from tainted blood or sharing needles or sex. How

could a new baby even get exposed to hepatitis?

Thanks again,

Blanche Green

[Guest guest]

My sister had her second son in Germany and he was not circumcised. He has

never had a bit of trouble with infection or overtightness, so I realized

before I ever had kids myself that it wasn't really necessary. I remember

when I had my first baby When I arrived at the hospital they asked if I

would want circumcision if I had a boy, we didn't know it was a girl. When I

had my son nobody even asked and it was done while I was asleep. I have

heard that here in the US to prevent circumcision you must write NO

CIRCUMCISION on your hospital papers before your baby is born and if your

boy ever has to have surgery because doctors have been known to do it when a

boy is out having surgery for something else later on.

My husband is circumcised and I showed the NORM site, but he is not really

interested in trying a safe painless at home foreskin restoration. It

doesn't really look like he has any foreskin to grow and restore, but I

guess there really doesn't have to be much? When my son becomes an adult I

will show him a site like NORM and give him whatever information and support

I can if he would be intersted in foreskin restoration.

_________________________________________________________________

Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free

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[Guest guest]

You have to sign a blanket consent form giving them the right

to " treat " when you enter the hospital. That gives the hospital the

right to do pretty much anything that the treating physician

deems " medically necessary " which boils down to the hospital's

standard procedure. I assure you I signed no consent nor was ever

asked(unless they said something and I answed in my sleep). Also

there is the fact that the vast majority of people like me don't

even try to sue the hospital when something is done against their

wishes and when they do lawyers do not take cases without clear cut

evidence. There is no proof when it comes to verbal consent either

way. If it did matter the hospital would record you every time you

gave consent. Sorry, but this is a rather emotional issue for me. If

I had a bit of sence none of my children would have been born in a

hospital. Lots of things were done without my consent even when they

had the opportunity to ask. My oldest child was given bottles when

BREASTFED was clearly written on the card, they put a tube down her

and suctioned her stomach without asking me. My son was taken and

circumcised while I was asleep without me being asked. My baby girl

was given unnecessary blood tests and antibiotics without me being

asked. All of these things were done to my chilren and I was told or

found out only after the fact. If I knew of a lawyer who would take

my case I would sue. Unless the hospital did something out of the

ordinary or I specified in writing prior to hospital admission

things that I didn't want done there is no evidence I would not

consent.

> I am in the US and have 3 boys. You have to sign a consent for

circumcision, it is a surgery and consent must be signed for

anything like that! I could not imagine them doing it without

asking, that would set them up for law suits out of the ying yang!

> Bambi

> Re: circumcision

>

>

> My sister had her second son in Germany and he was not

circumcised. He has

> never had a bit of trouble with infection or overtightness, so I

realized

> before I ever had kids myself that it wasn't really necessary. I

remember

> when I had my first baby When I arrived at the hospital they

asked if I

> would want circumcision if I had a boy, we didn't know it was a

girl. When I

> had my son nobody even asked and it was done while I was

asleep. I have

> heard that here in the US to prevent circumcision you must write

NO

> CIRCUMCISION on your hospital papers before your baby is born

and if your

> boy ever has to have surgery because doctors have been known to

do it when a

> boy is out having surgery for something else later on.

> My husband is circumcised and I showed the NORM site, but he is

not really

> interested in trying a safe painless at home foreskin

restoration. It

> doesn't really look like he has any foreskin to grow and

restore, but I

> guess there really doesn't have to be much? When my son becomes

an adult I

> will show him a site like NORM and give him whatever information

and support

> I can if he would be intersted in foreskin restoration.

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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> parking. http://shopping.msn.com

>

>

>