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You almost have one of the trees down.

a couple more and you can see the rest .Sometimes being extra bright can

keep you from understanding the problem.It`s not about chicken fried

steak.I`ve educated myself via the net to my own satisfaction. you said

this is a support group.------ a group .(inclusive) . I belong to a

larger group , whose support undoubtedly keeps me alive. The ONLY

requirement is a desire to stop drinking .they KNOW I`M there for

support and they include ME in their reindeer games.we talk to EACH

other, not just to a few, so far though I`ve yet to meet any one in it

with AIH ( however there are some with AID) Your story about Shay

gives a clue as to exactly what I`m talking about. (What the hell kind

of name is Shay anyway?) The story is not about how wonderful those 18

human beings were but what they DID to reflect God`s grace. Polish off a

few of those quotient points and put them to use, my poor pitiful plea

may shine enough to be reflected in the rest of the light. My arrogance

and pride disallows me to cry out in any other manor.

Must be tough--- going about Guru work.

By the way, What about coffee?? How does the group feel about it----- it

contains an addictive drug (one of those horrible " ines " ) I`ts really

hard on one`s digestive system and can cause stains on your clothing. I,

for one, think that drinkers of such a foul brew are, in the least

misguided, I try to be seated elsewhere, but it`s tough in A.A.

meetings.Oh well thats thier poor, however stupid, choice--- live and

let live.(poor bastards) Ooops , I notice you drink it -- well nothing

PERSONAL.

jerry

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reread your own message to me if you need more help in deciphering. The

trouble with dispensing platitudes is sometimes you got stand on them.

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Joan,

Wow!! You get my vote! <ggg> Very well said.

Don

Terradon Unlimited

www.TerradonUnlimited.com

"People who ask me how we can still have such a positive attitude after all we’ve been through, have it all wrong…We’ve been able to get through all that we have BECAUSE we have a positive attitude". Don Hanson 8/2000

-----Original Message-----From: FOXDIANA@... [mailto:FOXDIANA@...]Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 6:10 AM egroupsSubject: [ ] JERRY

Good Morning Jerry,Please join me in a cup of coffee, it is early and I need that first cup of coffee in the morning to get me going. I am sorry you feel the way you do about this list. But, you have to understand a support group is just that. Support in every aspect of our lives, we speak from our experiences, what we have been taught by studying this dragon we have been blessed with. We share with each other because we are a loving and caring group. We all take prescribed drugs that take their toll on our already sick bodies. For some of us this is the only outlet and contact with the outside world we have. We belong to this group because we need each other. If some of the threads are not to your liking, the delete key works very well....Recipes, weight, self esteem, are all apart of our every day life. When people talk about things it is because they are important to them...and they have that right...WE ARE ALL IMPORTANT....Some of the people on this list are struggling with many things in their life, like those applying for SSI/SSDI. That is very important to the person involved and talking about it here is very helpful. Threads do get out of hand, then I will ask they be stopped. But to say the things you did was not kind, and totally unnecessary. We all have different personalities, needs and desires. Each of us are in different stages of this Dragon. But this list is to help each other, educate each other, be there for each other. AND I HOPE EVERYONE DOES NOT LET THIS HINDER OR INTERFERE IN ANY WAY WITH FUTURE POST. That is what this SUPPORT group is all about. Thank you for your bio, interesting to say the least. I own my home out right, drive a handicap van, (also paid in full), a Volvo, have full care for my husband who is a paraplegic confined to bed, studying to become a Webmaster, have a seven digit banking account, my IQ is 175, I am 65 years young, consider my self to be attractive, but I do dye my hair to cover the gray, have my masters in accounting, have done my fair share of living life, sorry to say have never been in jail, drank very moderately, never smoked or tried drugs, been married 3 times widowed twice, have 4 daughters, 4 son-in-laws, 5 grandchildren. And yes Jerry, I have seen not only read the obits of some one who has passed after a LONG, COURAGEOUS battle with cancer. But had the privilege to be married and attend to someone who taught me what life, living and loving were all about while watching him die for 5 LONG LONG years of a disease that controlled his life and my life ...I watched him puke from the chemo treatments weekly, I watched him go from a stapling handsome man of 237 lbs to a handsome man of 67 lbs. I watched the man fight to stay alive, I watched this man laugh when he was in so much pain from the cancer eating away at his body, he was on so much morphine, God the morphine he was on, I watched him die slowly, a slow lingering death I would not wish on anyone. A sight I will never forget, but you know what Jerry, I learned so much from him. I learned compassion, understanding, loving unconditionally, patience and most of all I learned the real value of what our lives should be. It is about loving each other, being there for each other, understanding each other, not sweating the small stuff, it is all small stuff that we let become big stuff, it is about forgiving the past, our selves, and those in our lives, it is about reaching out to someone one in need and loving them thru it. It is about being ALIVE, LOVING AND GIVING.Have you bothered to search the web for AIH? Dogpile does a great job of searching. My site has some good links. There are Web rings that are very educational about the diseases. There is a lot of education out there just for the looking. As for people getting over their selves, I am the most important person I know, the best person to have as a friend, a good mother, and one of the list moderators...LOL...Love ya'll, have a great day, remember to laugh all day. Laughter is music to the heart and very healing. Soooooo, laugh a lot, love a lot, and be healthy, especially love a lot, the more love you give the more you get in return.....Joan, List ModeratorFloridaAIH, 1 Gall Stone, HBPFox <A HREF="aol://1722:http://www.foxdianasden.com">Fox 's Den</A><A HREF="http://www.foxdianasden.com">http://www.foxdianasden.com</A>Foxy's Health<A HREF="http://www.foxdianasden.com/health.com">Foxy's Health</A><A HREF="http://www.foxdianasden.com/health.com">http://www.foxdianasden.com/health.htm</A>Liver Support<A HREF="http://www.foxdianasden.com/liver support.htm">Liver Support</A><A HREF="http://www.foxdianasden.com/liver support.htm">http://www.foxdianasden.com/liver support.htm</A>

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TSK! TSK! study the issues from both sides before you vote so you know

that

isue on which you are really voting. So far Kathi is the only one who

saw the question, And you call yourself a man?

( Lest we get off on the wrong foot - that`s supposed to be a joke )

I guess all along its been the messenger.

a character defect.

jerry

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Jerry,

You're the one not getting it. I was "voting" because, this being an election year, there are a lot of impassioned political speeches being made. I wasn't taking sides, merely commenting on the passion.

I've belonged to many mail lists for over 15 years. Much of the time, there is a lot of idle chatter between people who've "connected". That's great. Though newcomers can feel like they are on the outside looking in.

But, that is the "fault" of the newcomer. Nobody can make you feel like an outsider. YOU make yourself feel that way. I can't remember a time that I've seen a question go unanswered, unless perhaps the subject didn't reflect the question.

I'm basically a shy person. It's hard for me to enter a strange room and feel comfortable. If I follow my naturally tendencies and wait for people to greet me, I usually feel like it's a horribly unfriendly group. If, I fight my shyness and go up to people and ask them to tell me about themselves, the same group takes on a totally different appearance. The group didn't change, my reaction to the group is what changed. I think that is what you are experiencing.

Geri was a wonderfully giving member of this group. She also has very strong opinions and often bristled when someone disagreed with her. Smoking is a real flash point with her. Rather than just letting people discuss views that differed from hers, she felt the need to defend herself. So, in her eyes, every post against smoking was like an attack on her. They weren't.

We are all here because we share a common illness. There are lists that only talk about their illnesses and how bad they feel. I don't need the doom and gloom. I'm interested in learning to LIVE with this illness. So are most of the others who are here. So, as in many large groups, there will be many discussions that are of no interest to me. But they interest others. So who am I to try to dictate what is discussed. It's not about ME. So I listen, or delete. And every once in a while the discussion will come around to something that sparks my interest, and I participate.

Group dynamics, my dear Jerry. Group dynamics. The group doesn't and shouldn't revolve around any one person. Discussions come and go. Topics are interesting and boring. Kinda sounds like life, doesn't it. Instead of bitching that the world doesn't interest you, bring up a topic that does.

Don

Terradon Unlimited

www.TerradonUnlimited.com

"People who ask me how we can still have such a positive attitude after all we’ve been through, have it all wrong…We’ve been able to get through all that we have BECAUSE we have a positive attitude". Don Hanson 8/2000

-----Original Message-----From: gefox@... [mailto:gefox@...]Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:24 AM egroupsCc: egroupsSubject: RE: [ ] JERRY

TSK! TSK! study the issues from both sides before you vote so you knowthatisue on which you are really voting. So far Kathi is the only one whosaw the question, And you call yourself a man?( Lest we get off on the wrong foot - that`s supposed to be a joke ) I guess all along its been the messenger.a character defect.jerry

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Jerry,

As I continue to get caught up in my email for the day. Each letter I read

from you. Your words are so angry. You have not begun to come to terms with

your own problems you are hiding behind them. Until you become totally honest

with yourself you will continue to lash out and blame someone else. Then

accuse every one that they are not true to God. This is your choice. You

haven't come to terms with being sick or why or to have to put down the

glass. I know because I have been there and done that. You want to debate

your beliefs and AA and NA and Day at a time, and alanon, and Christian

counselor? Then please talk to me. But do not blame people places or things.

We had nothing to do with your anger. But I will support you.

gayle/trans.6-99

galye@... ^0^

`

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Don,

Just a note to tell you that I always appreciate your posts. They are well

written and expressed and often humorous.

Shireen

PS I also like the blue color- how do you do that?

>From: " Don Hanson " <donhanson@...>

>Reply- egroups

>< egroups>

>Subject: RE: [ ] JERRY

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>

>Jerry,

>

>You're the one not getting it. I was " voting " because, this being an

>election year, there are a lot of impassioned political speeches being

>made.

>I wasn't taking sides, merely commenting on the passion.

>

>I've belonged to many mail lists for over 15 years. Much of the time, there

>is a lot of idle chatter between people who've " connected " . That's great.

>Though newcomers can feel like they are on the outside looking in.

>

>But, that is the " fault " of the newcomer. Nobody can make you feel like an

>outsider. YOU make yourself feel that way. I can't remember a time that

>I've

>seen a question go unanswered, unless perhaps the subject didn't reflect

>the

>question.

>

>I'm basically a shy person. It's hard for me to enter a strange room and

>feel comfortable. If I follow my naturally tendencies and wait for people

>to

>greet me, I usually feel like it's a horribly unfriendly group. If, I fight

>my shyness and go up to people and ask them to tell me about themselves,

>the

>same group takes on a totally different appearance. The group didn't

>change,

>my reaction to the group is what changed. I think that is what you are

>experiencing.

>

>Geri was a wonderfully giving member of this group. She also has very

>strong

>opinions and often bristled when someone disagreed with her. Smoking is a

>real flash point with her. Rather than just letting people discuss views

>that differed from hers, she felt the need to defend herself. So, in her

>eyes, every post against smoking was like an attack on her. They weren't.

>

>We are all here because we share a common illness. There are lists that

>only

>talk about their illnesses and how bad they feel. I don't need the doom and

>gloom. I'm interested in learning to LIVE with this illness. So are most of

>the others who are here. So, as in many large groups, there will be many

>discussions that are of no interest to me. But they interest others. So who

>am I to try to dictate what is discussed. It's not about ME. So I listen,

>or

>delete. And every once in a while the discussion will come around to

>something that sparks my interest, and I participate.

>

>Group dynamics, my dear Jerry. Group dynamics. The group doesn't and

>shouldn't revolve around any one person. Discussions come and go. Topics

>are

>interesting and boring. Kinda sounds like life, doesn't it. Instead of

>bitching that the world doesn't interest you, bring up a topic that does.

>

>Don

>Terradon Unlimited

>www.TerradonUnlimited.com

> " People who ask me how we can still have such a positive attitude after all

>we've been through, have it all wrong.We've been able to get through all

>that we have BECAUSE we have a positive attitude " . Don Hanson 8/2000

> RE: [ ] JERRY

>

>

>

>

> My Groups | Main Page | Start a new group!

>

>

> TSK! TSK! study the issues from both sides before you vote so you know

> that

> isue on which you are really voting. So far Kathi is the only one who

> saw the question, And you call yourself a man?

> ( Lest we get off on the wrong foot - that`s supposed to be a joke )

> I guess all along its been the messenger.

> a character defect.

> jerry

>

>

>

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Well Jerry, what i have in common with you is 2 kids in college. One of which is

my son that has aih. It seems to be kinda hard to find groups of kids that don;t

drink in college. He has just learned to go along with everybody and just say "

i don't drink " > My daughter is also not a drinker but she said that she just

always goes along and is the dd and she doesn;t mind. she has also found a

college church group that she really enjoys and hangs around with alot.

Good luck to you and i am here when you need someone also

Rosemary

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Sounds good Jerry, I love tomatoe soup and toasted cheese sandwhiches even

though I am not suppose to have the cheese. Hugs,

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Jerry:

Sorry never drank coffee so I think it is their person's decision on what

they put in their body. I have nothing against coffee. Just never learned

to drink it.

Sue AIH

Wisconsin

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Don I would like to talk further with you I do have some questions but

not fully formulated yet.

My kids got this webtv for me at christmas. They wanted me to be able to

keep in touch at all times with them.Damn it took a long time to get rid

of them in the 1st place. I`m hopelessly computer illiterate but it

doesn`t matter with this. It hooks up to my tv. I have a wireless

keyboard and a remote. It even has a jack for a printer which I haven`t

got. There are

many wonderous internet stuffs I can do with it (much like your

computer) and I hope to know them all if I ever get around to reading

the instruction sheet... if I can find it. I`m sure pasting is one of

them.

As far as the backround I had a real jones to enter into the convesation

and felt left out one thing led to another and then I felt misunderstood

and lashed out. I tried to force my presence on you all so you`d notice

me . It`s a manipulitive little defect

I`m working on trying to correct. I have made some progress in the last

6-7 yrs.

I`m not unaware of my shortcomings.

looking forward to talking more later.

jerry

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Where do I acuse people of not being true to God? You don`t know kind of

God I believe in. I don`t even go to church let alone espouse a

religion. What makes you think I`m christian . I DO have a God of my

undestanding who is peculiar to me and I certainly would never try to

persuade any one to my beliefs or to any belief at all ,for that matter.

I know EXACTLY why I put the glass down I`m alcoholic and my life was

unmannageable. It was not drink or die and believe me didn`t always

know there even was a choice. With all due respect you are neither

qualified nor know me well enough to take my inventory. I`m not a bad

person trying to become good , but rather a sick one trying get well.

..... and you`re way off base.

" There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is

proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep man in

everlasing ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to

investigation "

__ Herbert Spencer

You`re making generalizations based on what you think an alcoholic is.

NO ONE ever forced me to drink and I blame no one but myself for my

troubles.

But sometime you`re going to have to believe it`s a disease. I didn`t

(believe it or not) just decide one day to start drinking

until I ruined eveyone `s life around me and then die . Actually

alcoholics drink mainly out of FEAR not anger .

Being angry is not always a symptom of my disease but rather a symptom

of being human like other people. In fact being sober lets me feel lots

emotions that my active drinking kept suppressed. I`m just like any one

else when I`m in remission

I should be allowed to feel those emotions

and cry when I feel like crying, laugh, love,be disappointed, be

afraid,and get mad just like anyone else, without some one blaming it on

my DISEASE. Each day I use the medicine i`ve been given to keep my

disease in remission (you can relate to that) and I can do that each day

as long as I live. I`m not writing any of this in anger no matter what

your perception is.

" Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar "

S. Freud

reknowned cigar

smoker

I thank MY god daily for His grace

and pray to him for others. jerry

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Good!

Don

Terradon Unlimited

www.TerradonUnlimited.com

"People who ask me how we can still have such a positive attitude after all we’ve been through, have it all wrong…We’ve been able to get through all that we have BECAUSE we have a positive attitude". Don Hanson 8/2000

looking forward to talking more later.jerry

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Very well said Joan!! Have a nice day!! Lori C. AIH transplanted

3~11~97

[ ] JERRY

>

>Good Morning Jerry,

>Please join me in a cup of coffee, it is early and I need that first cup of

>coffee in the morning to get me going. I am sorry you feel the way you do

>about this list. But, you have to understand a support group is just that.

>Support in every aspect of our lives, we speak from our experiences, what

we

>have been taught by studying this dragon we have been blessed with. We

share

>with each other because we are a loving and caring group. We all take

>prescribed drugs that take their toll on our already sick bodies. For some

>of us this is the only outlet and contact with the outside world we have.

We

>belong to this group because we need each other. If some of the threads

are

>not to your liking, the delete key works very well....Recipes, weight, self

>esteem, are all apart of our every day life. When people talk about

things

>it is because they are important to them...and they have that right...WE

ARE

>ALL IMPORTANT....Some of the people on this list are struggling with many

>things in their life, like those applying for SSI/SSDI. That is very

>important to the person involved and talking about it here is very

helpful.

>Threads do get out of hand, then I will ask they be stopped. But to say

the

>things you did was not kind, and totally unnecessary. We all have

different

>personalities, needs and desires. Each of us are in different stages of

this

>Dragon. But this list is to help each other, educate each other, be there

>for each other. AND I HOPE EVERYONE DOES NOT LET THIS HINDER OR INTERFERE

IN

>ANY WAY WITH FUTURE POST. That is what this SUPPORT group is all about.

>

>Thank you for your bio, interesting to say the least. I own my home out

>right, drive a handicap van, (also paid in full), a Volvo, have full care

for

>my husband who is a paraplegic confined to bed, studying to become a

>Webmaster, have a seven digit banking account, my IQ is 175, I am 65 years

>young, consider my self to be attractive, but I do dye my hair to cover the

>gray, have my masters in accounting, have done my fair share of living

life,

>sorry to say have never been in jail, drank very moderately, never smoked

or

>tried drugs, been married 3 times widowed twice, have 4 daughters, 4

>son-in-laws, 5 grandchildren.

>

>And yes Jerry, I have seen not only read the obits of some one who has

>passed after a LONG, COURAGEOUS battle with cancer. But had the privilege

to

>be married and attend to someone who taught me what life, living and

loving

>were all about while watching him die for 5 LONG LONG years of a disease

>that controlled his life and my life ...I watched him puke from the chemo

>treatments weekly, I watched him go from a stapling handsome man of 237

lbs

>to a handsome man of 67 lbs. I watched the man fight to stay alive, I

>watched this man laugh when he was in so much pain from the cancer eating

>away at his body, he was on so much morphine, God the morphine he was on, I

>watched him die slowly, a slow lingering death I would not wish on anyone.

A

>sight I will never forget, but you know what Jerry, I learned so much from

>him. I learned compassion, understanding, loving unconditionally, patience

>and most of all I learned the real value of what our lives should be. It

is

>about loving each other, being there for each other, understanding each

>other, not sweating the small stuff, it is all small stuff that we let

become

>big stuff, it is about forgiving the past, our selves, and those in our

>lives, it is about reaching out to someone one in need and loving them thru

>it. It is about being ALIVE, LOVING AND GIVING.

>

>Have you bothered to search the web for AIH? Dogpile does a great job of

>searching. My site has some good links. There are Web rings that are very

>educational about the diseases. There is a lot of education out there just

>for the looking.

>

>As for people getting over their selves, I am the most important person I

>know, the best person to have as a friend, a good mother, and one of the

list

>moderators...LOL...

>

>Love ya'll, have a great day, remember to laugh all day. Laughter is music

to

>the heart and very healing. Soooooo, laugh a lot, love a lot, and be

healthy,

>especially love a lot, the more love you give the more you get in

return.....

>

>Joan, List Moderator

>Florida

>AIH, 1 Gall Stone, HBP

>

>Fox

><A HREF= " aol://1722:http://www.foxdianasden.com " >Fox 's Den</A>

><A HREF= " http://www.foxdianasden.com " >http://www.foxdianasden.com</A>

>

>Foxy's Health

><A HREF= " http://www.foxdianasden.com/health.com " >Foxy's Health</A>

><A

HREF= " http://www.foxdianasden.com/health.com " >http://www.foxdianasden.com/h

>ealth.htm</A>

>

>Liver Support

><A HREF= " http://www.foxdianasden.com/liver support.htm " >Liver Support</A>

><A HREF= " http://www.foxdianasden.com/liver

support.htm " >http://www.foxdianasde

>n.com/liver support.htm</A>

>

>

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Joan...

I still get the feeling that you don`t understand what was bothering

me.I joined this group because I DO know what support groups are all

about and wanted some support too. At the risk of nausea

from the group, I`m also a recovering alcoholic. Alcoholics are

egomaniacs with feelings of extreme insecurities. They fel unloved and

unnoticed , it`s part of thier disease. They build mechanisms to get

that notice, they become complicated con men.Instead of just going

directly to someone and asking include them and asking to join in they

scheme to get that notice.. i guess it worked. The problem was never

about diets and receipes , they were a tool to get a response . Some

people tried to over complicate the situation

by drawing on the thought that they were so smart they could help me,

patiently explaining to me things I already know as if to a child . It

doesn`t occur to them that they had been played. Some took it for what

it`s worth and have posted to me. that`s all I wanted .I can talk on

damn near anything . Analyzing a personality

to whom you have no clue is not a sign of compassion, we can`t judge

others especially, when playing on different courts in different

leagues. One should stick to his own game when not qualified for another

league. No matter what is perceived I`m not angry, nor am I mean

spirited, I`m lonely and seek help like the rest of the GROUP, but you

got to play if you want your name in the box scores,and even though I`ve

been sober almost 7 yrs,

I still have a lot of defects left over which I work on daily. The fact

that I`m telling you this now is a step for me towards normallacy. My

only recourse is to ask to amend and admit my wrong . `ve done that now

to my satisfaction . Please play me or trade me.

In response to your take on my off the wall comment on the " courageous

battle "

I just don`t take life as serious as some my own up close and personal

near death experience allows me to truly not sweat the small stuff and I

see more and more small stuff every day. I was trying to point out in my

obtuse way that it seems that every cancer death in the obits . were

fought magnificently in hand to hand combat , when in reality the

disease dictates the tems. We are all going to die which leads me to

believe that if you cry , whimper, snivel or show fear or cowardness at

the time youre not going to get listed in the obits for fear of family

shame , hence only those who fought bravely are there. But you know as

you pointed out through your husband, its how we live that counts (I

think I said that in my original missive} and therefore perhaps that

should mentioned instead. (ALL of us die but not ALL of us live--HMM?)

You know, every one lives in a different manner and under different

circumstances so courage and quality of life are objective especially

through anothers eyes. I sat by

the bed of my dieing (and beautiful) wife for 44 days unable to do

anything for her.

She was only 39 but had given birth to 5 childen by the time she was 26

..only one of them is mine (the youngest),the 1st was given uo for

adoption when my wife was 16. I`ve been dad to the rest since the oldest

was 4. (and mom ).She had lived a very hard life compared to most.

When alive she was always bubbly and upbeat, but she fought a thousand

private demons. She wasnt the best person in the world nor did she make

a lot of correct choices but she was the very best mother she knew how

to be and her girls ADORED her. I lved her more than most can believe.

While dieing she never complained (not even of pain),she never

whimpered, never blamed anyone for her problems,accepted what was

happening to and made some kind of peace with her God. Two things I

remember--- she shed tears that were as yellow as her eyes and skin and

shook as if by cold when she was in last day , I asked if she was afraid

and she could only shake her head yes with the HUGE eyes looking into

mine.

The other thing was the last she said to me when she still talk--- she

looked at her 4 girls for a long time and then at me and said... " Thank

You " .

I made the decision to put on the morphine drip that put her into

coma and we watched for ten hours until she died with a bunch of pink

bubbles coming out of her mouth. Cirhosis of the liver .No transplant

ever mentioned.

Was there a lesson for me to learn . Didn`t she die a courageous

death.Hadn`t there been the good fight. Should I have read somethig to

her about not going gently into that good night. She died just like

every other person that had ever lived had died before ,she just

stopped.

AND she had been loved at LEAST every bit as much as your husband.

. I cant be any more humble than I am right now

, nor will I ever be.

jerry

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Dear Jerry. I don't even imagine that I know what you have been through.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I, also, joined this group looking for what I

hoped was a group of people who have been down the path that I have just

been set on. I can't talk to my family. I'm not ready for that yet. My

husband knows of my diagnosis but very little about how it will affect our

future. I am the sole support of my family, and I'm scared to death. I've

got a fourteen-year-old son that is the love of my life, and the thought of

leaving him is more than I can take. I also have a beautiful Granddaughter

that I know I have only a short time with to bake cookies and have tea

parties. My job will supply me long-term disability, but I will lose my

insurance. I came to the group looking for options and information and was

very disappointed. But, then I sat back and really read the messages, and

in my mind envisioned each person. They each have a story, a burden just as

scary as mine. Whether they just trade recipes or talk about their favorite

joke, they have someone to lean on when no one else understands. There is

nothing courageous about it. We're all scared to death. Also, it's great

therapy to sit at a keyboard and type your heart out and send it out to

cyberspace without having to look someone in the face. So, Jerry. I am

reading your letters now. I'm new to the group. Say what you want to say

and if you want an answer or just want to know someone is out there, scream

HELLO, and we will be there. Take care. Sue in Florida

P.S. I think you meant for this message to go to Joan. If I've stepped on

anybody's toes by answering Jerry, I'm very sorry.

Re: [ ] JERRY

>

> Joan...

> I still get the feeling that you don`t understand what was bothering

> me.I joined this group because I DO know what support groups are all

> about and wanted some support too. At the risk of nausea

> from the group, I`m also a recovering alcoholic. Alcoholics are

> egomaniacs with feelings of extreme insecurities. They fel unloved and

> unnoticed , it`s part of thier disease. They build mechanisms to get

> that notice, they become complicated con men.Instead of just going

> directly to someone and asking include them and asking to join in they

> scheme to get that notice.. i guess it worked. The problem was never

> about diets and receipes , they were a tool to get a response . Some

> people tried to over complicate the situation

> by drawing on the thought that they were so smart they could help me,

> patiently explaining to me things I already know as if to a child . It

> doesn`t occur to them that they had been played. Some took it for what

> it`s worth and have posted to me. that`s all I wanted .I can talk on

> damn near anything . Analyzing a personality

> to whom you have no clue is not a sign of compassion, we can`t judge

> others especially, when playing on different courts in different

> leagues. One should stick to his own game when not qualified for another

> league. No matter what is perceived I`m not angry, nor am I mean

> spirited, I`m lonely and seek help like the rest of the GROUP, but you

> got to play if you want your name in the box scores,and even though I`ve

> been sober almost 7 yrs,

> I still have a lot of defects left over which I work on daily. The fact

> that I`m telling you this now is a step for me towards normallacy. My

> only recourse is to ask to amend and admit my wrong . `ve done that now

> to my satisfaction . Please play me or trade me.

> In response to your take on my off the wall comment on the " courageous

> battle "

> I just don`t take life as serious as some my own up close and personal

> near death experience allows me to truly not sweat the small stuff and I

> see more and more small stuff every day. I was trying to point out in my

> obtuse way that it seems that every cancer death in the obits . were

> fought magnificently in hand to hand combat , when in reality the

> disease dictates the tems. We are all going to die which leads me to

> believe that if you cry , whimper, snivel or show fear or cowardness at

> the time youre not going to get listed in the obits for fear of family

> shame , hence only those who fought bravely are there. But you know as

> you pointed out through your husband, its how we live that counts (I

> think I said that in my original missive} and therefore perhaps that

> should mentioned instead. (ALL of us die but not ALL of us live--HMM?)

> You know, every one lives in a different manner and under different

> circumstances so courage and quality of life are objective especially

> through anothers eyes. I sat by

> the bed of my dieing (and beautiful) wife for 44 days unable to do

> anything for her.

> She was only 39 but had given birth to 5 childen by the time she was 26

> .only one of them is mine (the youngest),the 1st was given uo for

> adoption when my wife was 16. I`ve been dad to the rest since the oldest

> was 4. (and mom ).She had lived a very hard life compared to most.

> When alive she was always bubbly and upbeat, but she fought a thousand

> private demons. She wasnt the best person in the world nor did she make

> a lot of correct choices but she was the very best mother she knew how

> to be and her girls ADORED her. I lved her more than most can believe.

> While dieing she never complained (not even of pain),she never

> whimpered, never blamed anyone for her problems,accepted what was

> happening to and made some kind of peace with her God. Two things I

> remember--- she shed tears that were as yellow as her eyes and skin and

> shook as if by cold when she was in last day , I asked if she was afraid

> and she could only shake her head yes with the HUGE eyes looking into

> mine.

> The other thing was the last she said to me when she still talk--- she

> looked at her 4 girls for a long time and then at me and said... " Thank

> You " .

> I made the decision to put on the morphine drip that put her into

> coma and we watched for ten hours until she died with a bunch of pink

> bubbles coming out of her mouth. Cirhosis of the liver .No transplant

> ever mentioned.

> Was there a lesson for me to learn . Didn`t she die a courageous

> death.Hadn`t there been the good fight. Should I have read somethig to

> her about not going gently into that good night. She died just like

> every other person that had ever lived had died before ,she just

> stopped.

> AND she had been loved at LEAST every bit as much as your husband.

> . I cant be any more humble than I am right now

> , nor will I ever be.

> jerry

>

>

>

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Sue Thanks...

I`m one of those people who feel I have so much to offer if some one

just knew it.

My problem is I don`t know how to go about it. A defense mechinism I

developed is a certain irreverance to just about everything. I`m very

well known in my little world and many people like me. They think I

have the greatest attitude toward everything and wonder how I maintain

such a cavilier approach towards things . Right now I belong to A.A. and

have carried great respect from my peers. " how do you manage to laugh

at so many things " -they say . Well I attach little imporance a great

many things `cause it don`t really matter in the long run.To me

I actually AM living on borrowd time . My marbles were lost 5 years ago

(read my story on marbles) and unlile many in this group I don`t expect

to get another supply nor would it be fair of me to do so.

What I`ve discovered about myself is that I demand to be heard,but don`t

know how to go about it. With all the people who know me I have not one

close friend. I miss the companionship of a relationship and have

discovered that I`m much lonelier than I thought. And although I don`t

seem to cope in the real world as a whole I know theres more to me than

A.A. Being diagnosed 3 yrs ago with multiplee myeloma affected me

very little because as I have said I feel I`m on undeserved borrowed

time but when I found out about AIH I saw an opportunity to mingle with

othes who had a commonality but differed from my fellow drunks.

Listening to other peoples stories is areal catharsis and keps reminding

me of how truly un-unique and human I am.

The facelessness of the internet allows me to speak out in more of a gut

manor than even the anonymity of A.A. ,(which is why `m so verbose ) A

surprise was the meaness that came out , which definitely is not me. I`m

hoping it`s a reaction to pred. and not a personality change , cause

anyone who knows me will tlle you I`m generous and kind even to my own

detriment (It`s caused me great troubles in this last year)

What I`m trying say is that while i was able to mess up a life filled

with great opportunity and greater potential I `ve been allowed to play

along on credit without any marbles and if I can just be of some help to

just one other human being before my markers are called in my debt will

be paid in full. I `ll feel as if mattered. Thanks again for the ear

.... it does make one feel better to unload his mind.

jerry

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Jerry,

You had a tantrum when no one talked to you when you first joined the group,

then you had a tantrum and called it analyzing. You also mentioned that you

tried other groups but couldn't relate. And that we don't know you. You don't

know me and you missed a few words in past letters. I could be your drug

counselor but I don't feel the need to elaborate. As far as I care. I don't

want or need your excuses or explanations. I don't give a rats ass (so you

wrote) about your pitiful life, or how you got there. But to belittle these

people other than me is mean and cruel. They are afraid to talk to you. This

is the way the group handles things. You obviously have no clue. And will

never find the so called support you seem to think you want or need. Because

you really don't want it.

gayle/trans.6-99

galye@... ^0^

`

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Sue Just reread your story. What are you talking about . my life is a

piece of cake compared to yours and the rest of the souls in this group.

I`m at peace with my outlook . I` just want to pay my outstanding debt

to God before

I go. I live with my mother, who while not rich has plenty enough money

to support us and leave some to my brother and sister. My girls are all

grown and in good paying jobs and healthy relationships. I don`t see my

grandchildren that much but I think thats o.k. Each one is cuter than

the other and we`ve got another coming soon(at a theater near you )

Medicaid pays for ALL my medical bills and drugs and S sends me enough

to pay my car insurance and with whats leftover can buy gas and cigars.

The daily poker game I play in , affords me some small luxuries

( I could even take a women out if i could find one who would go out

with me.)

You have some real rough road and I pray for you. Please don`t get

overwhelmed thinking about what might happen, stay in the present and

make this the best day youve` ever had . The future has a way

of taking care of itself and nothing ever goes as it were plane.Stuff is

always the way it is supposed to be and it`s going to be alright.

take care of yourself , people love you

jerry

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Hi Jerry,

No question, the meanness comes from the pred. I, too, am one of the kindest people you'd want to meet, but just ask my kids how mean I was when I first started the pred and before I started paxil. Fortunately, they knew me, and realized that it was the pred talking, not me.

Don

Terradon Unlimited

www.TerradonUnlimited.com

"People who ask me how we can still have such a positive attitude after all we’ve been through, have it all wrong…We’ve been able to get through all that we have BECAUSE we have a positive attitude". Don Hanson 8/2000

-----Original Message-----From: gefox@... [mailto:gefox@...]Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 6:29 AM egroupsCc: egroupsSubject: Re: [ ] JERRY

Sue Thanks...I`m one of those people who feel I have so much to offer if some onejust knew it.My problem is I don`t know how to go about it. A defense mechinism Ideveloped is a certain irreverance to just about everything. I`m verywell known in my little world and many people like me. They think Ihave the greatest attitude toward everything and wonder how I maintainsuch a cavilier approach towards things . Right now I belong to A.A. andhave carried great respect from my peers. "how do you manage to laughat so many things"-they say . Well I attach little imporance a greatmany things `cause it don`t really matter in the long run.To meI actually AM living on borrowd time . My marbles were lost 5 years ago(read my story on marbles) and unlile many in this group I don`t expectto get another supply nor would it be fair of me to do so.What I`ve discovered about myself is that I demand to be heard,but don`tknow how to go about it. With all the people who know me I have not oneclose friend. I miss the companionship of a relationship and havediscovered that I`m much lonelier than I thought. And although I don`tseem to cope in the real world as a whole I know theres more to me thanA.A. Being diagnosed 3 yrs ago with multiplee myeloma affected mevery little because as I have said I feel I`m on undeserved borrowedtime but when I found out about AIH I saw an opportunity to mingle withothes who had a commonality but differed from my fellow drunks.Listening to other peoples stories is areal catharsis and keps remindingme of how truly un-unique and human I am.The facelessness of the internet allows me to speak out in more of a gutmanor than even the anonymity of A.A. ,(which is why `m so verbose ) Asurprise was the meaness that came out , which definitely is not me. I`mhoping it`s a reaction to pred. and not a personality change , causeanyone who knows me will tlle you I`m generous and kind even to my owndetriment (It`s caused me great troubles in this last year)What I`m trying say is that while i was able to mess up a life filledwith great opportunity and greater potential I `ve been allowed to playalong on credit without any marbles and if I can just be of some help tojust one other human being before my markers are called in my debt willbe paid in full. I `ll feel as if mattered. Thanks again for the ear... it does make one feel better to unload his mind. jerry

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Don,

I can be reduced to tears when I think about the lack of patients I have

had with my kids. My youngest was just 3yrs. and my oldest was 5yrs.

when I was on the steroids. It would take every ounce of energy to

remain as calm as humanely possible. I hated each & every day I had to

swallow one of those pills. I have even considered not taking any meds.

because I felt it was better not to have a mother than to have one that

couldn't handle everyday stresses. When I found myself thinking those

thoughts I had to take a hold of the situation and put my mind to one

goal. Healing myself. I have repeat to myself thousands of time. I will

beat this. I will remain off steroids. I believe in mind over

matter...I have been to spiritual healers, used aromatherapy & even

bought healing rocks.

Unfortunately we can all relate to the steroid phase of our lives. I

hope we can one day but steroids behind us for good. Until then my wish

is patients and a good night sleep (thats half the battle)

Have a good day

Joan Claffey

nj

Don Hanson wrote:

>

> Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)

> Encoding: 7bit

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Dear Jerry. I think everyone feels " different " . I know I do, and when you

pin someone down they usually tell you they feel the same. Everyone seems

to be having such a good time. I try to explain it like everyone is

huddled in a big circle laughing and joking around, and I feel like a

little kid running around behind them trying to find a spot open that I can

squeeze into. I just keep going around and around. I don't really have any

close friends, either. All my high school " gang " have long ago moved away.

Mostly I talk for hours with my sister, long distance. She still doesn't

know anything major is wrong with me. It's hard to tell your family. My

mother is 83 years old. I'm still her baby, even though I'm almost 48 years

old. My brother suspects something, but I haven't discussed it with him.

Well, I'm going to take a nap. I stayed up all night waiting for the " big

storm " to hit. It hit about sixty miles from us, so all we got in Pensacola

was some pleasant wind. I don't even think it rained at our house. Take

care. Talk to you later. Sue in Florida

Re: [ ] JERRY

>

> Sue Thanks...

> I`m one of those people who feel I have so much to offer if some one

> just knew it.

> My problem is I don`t know how to go about it. A defense mechinism I

> developed is a certain irreverance to just about everything. I`m very

> well known in my little world and many people like me. They think I

> have the greatest attitude toward everything and wonder how I maintain

> such a cavilier approach towards things . Right now I belong to A.A. and

> have carried great respect from my peers. " how do you manage to laugh

> at so many things " -they say . Well I attach little imporance a great

> many things `cause it don`t really matter in the long run.To me

> I actually AM living on borrowd time . My marbles were lost 5 years ago

> (read my story on marbles) and unlile many in this group I don`t expect

> to get another supply nor would it be fair of me to do so.

> What I`ve discovered about myself is that I demand to be heard,but don`t

> know how to go about it. With all the people who know me I have not one

> close friend. I miss the companionship of a relationship and have

> discovered that I`m much lonelier than I thought. And although I don`t

> seem to cope in the real world as a whole I know theres more to me than

> A.A. Being diagnosed 3 yrs ago with multiplee myeloma affected me

> very little because as I have said I feel I`m on undeserved borrowed

> time but when I found out about AIH I saw an opportunity to mingle with

> othes who had a commonality but differed from my fellow drunks.

> Listening to other peoples stories is areal catharsis and keps reminding

> me of how truly un-unique and human I am.

> The facelessness of the internet allows me to speak out in more of a gut

> manor than even the anonymity of A.A. ,(which is why `m so verbose ) A

> surprise was the meaness that came out , which definitely is not me. I`m

> hoping it`s a reaction to pred. and not a personality change , cause

> anyone who knows me will tlle you I`m generous and kind even to my own

> detriment (It`s caused me great troubles in this last year)

> What I`m trying say is that while i was able to mess up a life filled

> with great opportunity and greater potential I `ve been allowed to play

> along on credit without any marbles and if I can just be of some help to

> just one other human being before my markers are called in my debt will

> be paid in full. I `ll feel as if mattered. Thanks again for the ear

> ... it does make one feel better to unload his mind.

>

> jerry

>

>

>

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