Bickering

[Guest guest]

It takes two to continue this sort bickering; it only takes one to stop it.

Gayle

[Guest guest]

Sorry - I've sent this to the wrong address.

Gayle

[low dose naltrexone] Bickering

It takes two to continue this sort bickering; it only takes one to stop it.

Gayle __________ NOD32 1.1788 (20061003) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

The difficulty comes from the fact that many do not grasp that there

IS NO 'we'.

None at all. No one here speaks for anyone else. Individuals are

surely entitled as adults to use adult means to express their opinion

and experience. And adult's opinions pack a weight if they have

anything about them which is bigger than a sheep.

>

> So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow it

> without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

>

> I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right for us.

> We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our opinions.

> Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

>

> I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

>

> Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

>

> Venizia

>

[Guest guest]

Then should stop these forums because some may do

something to harm themselves? It would be a shame because I have

learned SO much in these forums good and bad. The mentality in this

country (U.S.) is " everyone else should take care of me and I have no

responsiblity? " I don't think so. That is what is wrong with the U.S.

BUT, I stop there, I am not going to get political!

Venizia

> >

> > So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> > like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow it

> > without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

> >

> > I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> > ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right for us.

> > We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> > and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> > them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our opinions.

> > Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> > puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> > naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

> >

> > I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> > does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> > This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> > opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

> >

> > Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

> >

> > Venizia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is a pity that no one has apparently been able to devise a useful

flow chart which can enable the individual to personalize the system

behind their own symptoms.

as is: if x symptom then try y at z dosage

y = this amount over that time split in this manner built to n approx

optimum and not within k hours either way of t s p doses.

and so on. To encompass the whole endocrine system.

Like an orchestra with the individual body as the conductor defining

the perfect symphony for its composition.

Surely it could be done and also done for every body system.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> > like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow it

> > without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

> >

> > I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> > ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right for us.

> > We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> > and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> > them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our opinions.

> > Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> > puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> > naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

> >

> > I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> > does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> > This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> > opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

> >

> > Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

> >

> > Venizia

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We do have this on the Natural thyroid group and the adrenal group to

an extent and it does work there. The ladies running these groups are

very knowledgeable in both subjects. In fact Janie at NTH just had a

book published. I do not know who on this group could take your idea

on.....maybe Chuck!:)

Venizia

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> > > like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just

follow it

> > > without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

> > >

> > > I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> > > ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right

for us.

> > > We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> > > and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> > > them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our

opinions.

> > > Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> > > puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> > > naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

> > >

> > > I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> > > does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> > > This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> > > opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

> > >

> > > Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

> > >

> > > Venizia

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

actually it is very very easy! but if your brain is addled it will be hard to

understand, or if you are prone to anger you will just get pissed off. pay

attention to the ppl who are well and what they take. If you are hypo then

take Armour--look at http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com for how to dose and

adrenal info. if you cannot tolerate enough Armour then you have adrenal

probs. if you are curious aobut iodine then join iodine group and read on

http://www.optimox.com also look at http://www.drbrownstein.com and read his

books!

gracia

It is a pity that no one has apparently been able to devise a useful

flow chart which can enable the individual to personalize the system

behind their own symptoms.

as is: if x symptom then try y at z dosage

y = this amount over that time split in this manner built to n approx

optimum and not within k hours either way of t s p doses.

and so on. To encompass the whole endocrine system.

Like an orchestra with the individual body as the conductor defining

the perfect symphony for its composition.

Surely it could be done and also done for every body system.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> > like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow it

> > without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

> >

> > I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> > ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right for us.

> > We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> > and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> > them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our opinions.

> > Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> > puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> > naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

> >

> > I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> > does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> > This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> > opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

> >

> > Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

> >

> > Venizia

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen way too

often.

Dusty

Re: Bickering

People actually come here for advice and take it.

They ask, what should I take, how much?

They don¹t realize how dangerous high amounts of thyroid medicine are;

they go against their doctors based on what some write on these boards. I

have seen it happrn.

That¹s the part that needs to be addressed --- Not everyone can think and

research for themeselves, they are too lost, scared, desperate.

They DO take the advice that is given to them in an authoitative way.

That needs to be dealt with in a safe way.

IMHO.

Sue

On 8/24/08 12:53 PM, " venizia1948 " <nelsonck@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow it

> without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

>

> I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right for us.

> We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our opinions.

> Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

>

> I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

>

> Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

>

> Venizia

>

>

[Guest guest]

Some people do think that way about responsibility Venizia, but there are

many who also think like we do, in that we wish to help ourselves and learn

what we can. And then, unfortunately, there are those who need others to

think and decide for them - for when at our wit's end, we don't think well

or follow through very carefully.

A bit like the mantra repeated here concerning each person's particular

medical condition - we are all different in how we respond.

Dusty

Re: Bickering

Then should stop these forums because some may do something to

harm themselves? It would be a shame because I have learned SO much in

these forums good and bad. The mentality in this country (U.S.) is " everyone

else should take care of me and I have no responsiblity? " I don't think so.

That is what is wrong with the U.S.

BUT, I stop there, I am not going to get political!

Venizia

> >

> > So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> > like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow

> > it without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

> >

> > I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> > ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right for us.

> > We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can come

> > and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> > them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our opinions.

> > Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> > puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> > naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

> >

> > I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> > does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> > This has been going on for a long time with the group. Difference of

> > opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

> >

> > Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

> >

> > Venizia

> >

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

If we would just give people advice on what works for us and not try to

force them to take armour, I think we all would not be bickering.

I just get upset when I see someone trying to tell another that all their

problems are due to not taking enough armour or not taking armour.

Betty

RE: Bickering

This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen way too

often.

Dusty

[Guest guest]

Dusty,

But this is what these are about. Giving advice and

opinions. We cannot be responsible for what others do. The only

option is then for the to dissolve. Then many others that

can be helped will not be. I am not being uncaring about those that

would do as anyone says but I am concerned that we cannot express our

opinions or state what has worked without worry that someone that

should NOT take the advice, will. I do not think there is an answer

here, it is really about responsibility and first do no harm but in

this forum that is VERY difficult.

Venizia

> > >

> > > So, we are at it once again. I love a good discussion but I do not

> > > like name calling and dangerous info if one is going to just follow

> > > it without making sure it is the right thing for them to do.

> > >

> > > I would hope we are not puppets on a string and can think for

> > > ourselves when it comes to our health and what would be right

for us.

> > > We need to do our OWN research. This a forum where people can

come

> > > and and make their statements. We do not have to or should we take

> > > them and just go with them. We are ALL entitled to give our

opinions.

> > > Saying one " should do this " is that persons opinion....don't be a

> > > puppet. Do your own homework and discuss it with your doctor or

> > > naturopath or whomever you decide will work for you.

> > >

> > > I am not going to get into an argument about my statement. If Ira

> > > does not like what is going on here, He can do something about it.

> > > This has been going on for a long time with the group.

Difference of

> > > opinions are good to hear. That's what they are opinions.

> > >

> > > Please do not pounce on me.....it is just my opinion.

> > >

> > > Venizia

> > >

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

We are not FORCING anyone to do anything. Gosh, there other groups I

spoke of in a past email that do have medical writings to back up what

they are talking about...we do not have this on this group BUT

" stopthethyroidmadness " website is what Gracia always says to check

out because there really is excellent advice there.

Again, I am sorry, as ill as someone might be, it comes down to

personal responsibility. There are magazine articles, TV ads for

drugs constantly that are saying take this, it will be good for you.

My god there are more drug commercials on TV than anything. How can

anyone be responsible for those that say " oh that's what I need " and

go to their doctor and Voila! Guess what they get from their doctor.

NOW before anyone jumps at THAT statement, many of us here have said

many doctors now days give up to many pills to those that do not

really need it. It has happened to me when I did not EVEN want the

medication, was not even told the right way to get off the meds by my

doctor....but I am rambling here sorry. Done!

Really people think more about this.

Venizia

>

> If we would just give people advice on what works for us and not try to

> force them to take armour, I think we all would not be bickering.

>

> I just get upset when I see someone trying to tell another that all

their

> problems are due to not taking enough armour or not taking armour.

>

> Betty

>

>

> RE: Bickering

>

>

> This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen

way too

> often.

>

> Dusty

>

[Guest guest]

There is nothing wrong with that website or with her telling people what she

takes or believes may help.

It is the way she tells people the bothers me. I have nothing against her or

what she believes in.

Just don't make the comments that they or their doctors don't know what they

are doing.

Betty

RE: Bickering

>>

>>

>> This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen

> way too

>> often.

>>

>> Dusty

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree.

CW

-- Re: Bickering

We are not FORCING anyone to do anything. Gosh, there other groups I

spoke of in a past email that do have medical writings to back up what

they are talking about...we do not have this on this group BUT

" stopthethyroidmadness " website is what Gracia always says to check

out because there really is excellent advice there.

Again, I am sorry, as ill as someone might be, it comes down to

personal responsibility. There are magazine articles, TV ads for

drugs constantly that are saying take this, it will be good for you.

My god there are more drug commercials on TV than anything. How can

anyone be responsible for those that say " oh that's what I need " and

go to their doctor and Voila! Guess what they get from their doctor.

NOW before anyone jumps at THAT statement, many of us here have said

many doctors now days give up to many pills to those that do not

really need it. It has happened to me when I did not EVEN want the

medication, was not even told the right way to get off the meds by my

doctor....but I am rambling here sorry. Done!

Really people think more about this.

Venizia

>

> If we would just give people advice on what works for us and not try to

> force them to take armour, I think we all would not be bickering.

>

> I just get upset when I see someone trying to tell another that all

their

> problems are due to not taking enough armour or not taking armour.

>

> Betty

>

>

> RE: Bickering

>

>

> This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen

way too

> often.

>

> Dusty

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Betty, I am on many forums and I cannot tell you how many people

say " your doctor does not know what he is doing. " In many cases, that

is why we are here because our doctor is not making us better. I can

also tell you that there were some in this group that said the very

same thing to me a little over a year ago when the doctor I was seeing

put me on 6 and then 8 grains of Armour all at once. I now know that

is NOT the thing to do. I won't name names of those here that said my

doctor does not know what he is doing You know who you are AND I am

grateful for you.

Venizia

> >>

> >> If we would just give people advice on what works for us and not

try to

> >> force them to take armour, I think we all would not be bickering.

> >>

> >> I just get upset when I see someone trying to tell another that all

> > their

> >> problems are due to not taking enough armour or not taking armour.

> >>

> >> Betty

> >>

> >>

> >> RE: Bickering

> >>

> >>

> >> This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen

> > way too

> >> often.

> >>

> >> Dusty

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm afraid it's not that simple. Mathematicians and scientists have

very complex computations to do when dealing with a three-body system.

Yet with hormones in humans there are I think about 50 hormone

variables; not three. So it is very complex indeed; as a matter of fact

I think that in a three body problem the results may be chaotic. To get

an idea of how complex search Wikipedia or Google for " three body problem " .

To make matters even worse, in physics we can depend upon all macro

objects to obey the laws of physics in a very predictable manner.

However, with the 50 or so hormones in humans you can have variable

response from one person to the next for reasons that do not include the

hormones; so the problem effectively approaches infinity. IMHO.

>

> Posted by: " lmneedham " lmneedham@...

> <mailto:lmneedham@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Bickering>

> lmneedham <lmneedham>

>

>

> Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:56 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> It is a pity that no one has apparently been able to devise a useful

> flow chart which can enable the individual to personalize the system

> behind their own symptoms.

>

> as is: if x symptom then try y at z dosage

>

> y = this amount over that time split in this manner built to n approx

> optimum and not within k hours either way of t s p doses.

>

> and so on. To encompass the whole endocrine system.

>

> Like an orchestra with the individual body as the conductor defining

> the perfect symphony for its composition.

>

> Surely it could be done and also done for every body system.

[Guest guest]

Okay; then since I take 75 mcg Synthroid and I'm well that's all anyone

else should do.

Whee; I'm glad we got that solved! [ggg]

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

> <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Bickering>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:18 pm (PDT)

>

>

> actually it is very very easy! but if your brain is addled it will be

> hard to understand, or if you are prone to anger you will just get

> pissed off. pay attention to the ppl who are well and what they take.

[Guest guest]

Nah, they should all tak 100 mcg Levoxyl AND 15 mcg of Cytomel,

So says I!

And no iodine if hashis.

And ashwanadrah for adrenals.

Don¹t make me have to remind you!

sue

On 8/24/08 7:27 PM, " " <res075oh@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Okay; then since I take 75 mcg Synthroid and I'm well that's all anyone

> else should do.

>

> Whee; I'm glad we got that solved! [ggg]

>

>

[Guest guest]

So do I and these people get heart palps, or sweats chest pain and then

people say, Hey you didn¹t have to LISTEN to us.

If only one person here would stop TELLING everyone what to take we could

avoid that unnecessary danger.

sue

On 8/24/08 4:30 PM, " Dusty " <dusty@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> This is true. I belong to another medical list and see if happen way too

> often.

>

> Dusty

[Guest guest]

It is very upsetting.

It¹s misleading, it¹s dangerous, its wrong.

It¹s also not coming from someone who will monitor that person¹s overall

health, let alone their thryod.

It¹s ..

Well,

Crazy!

sue

On 8/24/08 4:48 PM, " Betty " <bjshamrock@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> If we would just give people advice on what works for us and not try to

> force them to take armour, I think we all would not be bickering.

>

> I just get upset when I see someone trying to tell another that all their

> problems are due to not taking enough armour or not taking armour.

>

> Betty

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if this is suppose to be a joke or not, but I think it is

getting a little out of hand. Can we please just change the subject.

Gracia is always going to tell people her opinion and people have to be

responsible for themselves. Take it or leave it, but it is the person's

choice what they do. I just think the bickering has come to nit picking one

person. Let's agree to disagree and move on so we can continue to help

people! There have been people who took Gracia's advise and done well

(). Anywho....moving right along.

CW

-- Re: Re: Bickering

Nah, they should all tak 100 mcg Levoxyl AND 15 mcg of Cytomel,

So says I!

And no iodine if hashis.

And ashwanadrah for adrenals.

Don¹t make me have to remind you!

sue

On 8/24/08 7:27 PM, " " <res075oh@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Okay; then since I take 75 mcg Synthroid and I'm well that's all anyone

> else should do.

>

> Whee; I'm glad we got that solved! [ggg]

>

>

[Guest guest]

It¹s no difference for someone here to TELL SOMEONE to TO TAKE 180 mg of

armour

than it is for a doctor to say take 90 mg.

The person is here BECAUSE they are NOT listening to their doctor and WANT

someone here to TELL THEM what to take.

They don¹t know better.

WE ALL DO, don¹t we? Meaning we know enough to direct them to a NEW health

practitioner and Share what does or does not work for us.

BUT --

Don¹t¹ we know not to TELL other¹s how much medication to take?

Sue

On 8/24/08 5:12 PM, " venizia1948 " <nelsonck@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> We are not FORCING anyone to do anything. Gosh, there other groups I

> spoke of in a past email that do have medical writings to back up what

> they are talking about...we do not have this on this group BUT

> " stopthethyroidmadness " website is what Gracia always says to check

> out because there really is excellent advice there.

>

[Guest guest]

GO to the naturalthyroidhormones.com or

naturalthyroidhormonesADRENAL.com groups and see what is going on

there. This is what goes on. They do tell people what to take and how

much. CHECK IT OUT! If you have a problem with it then you maybe need

to address . But let me tell you, if I did not have these

groups, I would probably not be here right now. I am responsible for

myself, I took the info in these groups, did my research and then went

to my doctors. IF there are people too sick to do all this, all they

need to do is print out the info here and take to their doctors and go

from there.

I agree with Crystal. It is time to let this go. Take it to a

different level if you have a problem with ALL THESE GROUPS.

Venizia

>

> >

> >

> >

> > We are not FORCING anyone to do anything. Gosh, there other groups I

> > spoke of in a past email that do have medical writings to back up what

> > they are talking about...we do not have this on this group BUT

> > " stopthethyroidmadness " website is what Gracia always says to check

> > out because there really is excellent advice there.

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

CW‹why should only one person tell others what to do?

On 8/24/08 8:20 PM, " Crystal " <sweetnwright@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> I'm not sure if this is suppose to be a joke or not, but I think it is

> getting a little out of hand. Can we please just change the subject.

> Gracia is always going to tell people her opinion and people have to be

> responsible for themselves. Take it or leave it, but it is the person's

> choice what they do. I just think the bickering has come to nit picking one

> person. Let's agree to disagree and move on so we can continue to help

> people! There have been people who took Gracia's advise and done well

> (). Anywho....moving right along.

> CW

>

> -- Re: Re: Bickering

>

> Nah, they should all tak 100 mcg Levoxyl AND 15 mcg of Cytomel,

> So says I!

> And no iodine if hashis.

> And ashwanadrah for adrenals.

> Don¹t make me have to remind you!

>

> sue

>

> On 8/24/08 7:27 PM, " " <res075oh@...

> <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net> > wrote:

>

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Okay; then since I take 75 mcg Synthroid and I'm well that's all anyone

>> > else should do.

>> >

>> > Whee; I'm glad we got that solved! [ggg]

>> >

>> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why is your ³resolution² to permit a non-medical person to tell another

person how much armour to take?

Why is it not your solution to ask people to REFRAIN from TELLING people

what drugs to take and what amounts?

Gracia speaks as though she IS a doctor, a medical professional ‹ with

online doctors and naturopaths, many people may very well take her advice as

a medical professional that she comes across an be harmed.

So I have to ask, why not ask people to stop TELLING OTHERS what they NEED

TO TAK and just share their expeience?

sue

On 8/24/08 8:35 PM, " venizia1948 " <nelsonck@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> GO to the naturalthyroidhormones.com or

> naturalthyroidhormonesADRENAL.com groups and see what is going on

> there. This is what goes on. They do tell people what to take and how

> much. CHECK IT OUT! If you have a problem with it then you maybe need

> to address . But let me tell you, if I did not have these

> groups, I would probably not be here right now. I am responsible for

> myself, I took the info in these groups, did my research and then went

> to my doctors. IF there are people too sick to do all this, all they

> need to do is print out the info here and take to their doctors and go

> from there.