RE: Another Interesting Bill

[Guest guest]

Ever read the cognitive content in EVOC and the Ambulance Operations

module in the EMT-B course?

It's exactly the same stuff. Really all the EMT grad needs is the cone

course, and they've had the entirety of EVOC.

>

> Sorry for the late reply on this. Family from Japan is staying with

> me, so I've been incommunicado from the list for a couple of days...

>

> On Saturday, March 12, 2011 10:05, " McNevin " cfdc1@...

> > said:

>

> > I don't know what, if any, EMS systems you have been involved with

> but in the four

> > I have worked for ( F.D. based, hospital based, and private) I , as

> an EMT, drove

> > the majority of the time. With the shift of EMS to provide an

> advanced level of

> > patient care from bedside to the hospital, the majority of the time

> it is an ALS

> > patient (by the Medical Directors protocols) and the EMT drives. As

> far as EVOC

> > training goes, are you telling me that it is not necessary because

> ambulances are

> > never involved in accidents?

>

> I apologise for the misunderstanding. I completely agree that EVOC

> training is important. My point was that there are a great many people

> who attend EMT school with no intention whatsoever of working on an

> ambulance of any sort. They're doing it for the lulz, or to work a

> scout camp, or because they hike or ski a lot, or intend to work first

> aid stand-bys, etc... Not to mention, as Cougar! mentions, the large

> number of EMTs who are -- and probably always will be -- unemployed.

> It is my contention that it would be a waste of time and money for

> those people to have to attend EVOC just to be an EMT. The burden of

> EVOC training should rest with those who provide the vehicles, i.e.

> the employer.

>

> > EMS does not practice medicine, we

> > practice pre-hospital emergency care under the direction of a

> Medical Director who

> > writes protocols which allow us to do what we do in the field. We

> are an extension

> > of the Physician. We are not the Physician.

>

> Wow... you have been around for a long time. I haven't heard anyone

> say that since the 90s, when Dr. Bledsoe first began teaching

> otherwise. This is the 21st century. If you are not practising

> medicine, I'm sorry to hear that. But please don't presume to saddle

> the rest of us with your personal limitations. What EMS is to you is

> not universal, I assure you.

>

> > You say you " practice medicine " does that mean you make a diagnosis

> and prescribe

> > medicine in the field?

>

> Correct. I do (did).

>

> > Do you not transport your patients to the hospital to be

> > seen by a Physician?

>

> Correct. I do (did) not, unless surgery or a specialist consultation

> was needed.

>

> > If that is the case I want to work for your system and

> > Medical Director. This is the most progressive EMS system I have

> ever heard of.

>

> http://www.goarmy.com/ You may be a little old, but it's worth

> checking out.

>

> > In closing any time I try to have an adult conversation with someone

> and they

> > resort to name-calling and disrespecting another's profession I

> assume they are

> > uninformed and not very professional.

>

> Any time I try to have an adult conversation with someone who makes

> assumptions, I know I am wasting my time.

>

> Rob

> RN, EMT-P, Professional Hose-Monkey (Retired)

>

>

--

Grayson, CCEMT-P www.kellygrayson.com

[Guest guest]

Ever read the cognitive content in EVOC and the Ambulance Operations

module in the EMT-B course?

It's exactly the same stuff. Really all the EMT grad needs is the cone

course, and they've had the entirety of EVOC.

>

> Sorry for the late reply on this. Family from Japan is staying with

> me, so I've been incommunicado from the list for a couple of days...

>

> On Saturday, March 12, 2011 10:05, " McNevin " cfdc1@...

> > said:

>

> > I don't know what, if any, EMS systems you have been involved with

> but in the four

> > I have worked for ( F.D. based, hospital based, and private) I , as

> an EMT, drove

> > the majority of the time. With the shift of EMS to provide an

> advanced level of

> > patient care from bedside to the hospital, the majority of the time

> it is an ALS

> > patient (by the Medical Directors protocols) and the EMT drives. As

> far as EVOC

> > training goes, are you telling me that it is not necessary because

> ambulances are

> > never involved in accidents?

>

> I apologise for the misunderstanding. I completely agree that EVOC

> training is important. My point was that there are a great many people

> who attend EMT school with no intention whatsoever of working on an

> ambulance of any sort. They're doing it for the lulz, or to work a

> scout camp, or because they hike or ski a lot, or intend to work first

> aid stand-bys, etc... Not to mention, as Cougar! mentions, the large

> number of EMTs who are -- and probably always will be -- unemployed.

> It is my contention that it would be a waste of time and money for

> those people to have to attend EVOC just to be an EMT. The burden of

> EVOC training should rest with those who provide the vehicles, i.e.

> the employer.

>

> > EMS does not practice medicine, we

> > practice pre-hospital emergency care under the direction of a

> Medical Director who

> > writes protocols which allow us to do what we do in the field. We

> are an extension

> > of the Physician. We are not the Physician.

>

> Wow... you have been around for a long time. I haven't heard anyone

> say that since the 90s, when Dr. Bledsoe first began teaching

> otherwise. This is the 21st century. If you are not practising

> medicine, I'm sorry to hear that. But please don't presume to saddle

> the rest of us with your personal limitations. What EMS is to you is

> not universal, I assure you.

>

> > You say you " practice medicine " does that mean you make a diagnosis

> and prescribe

> > medicine in the field?

>

> Correct. I do (did).

>

> > Do you not transport your patients to the hospital to be

> > seen by a Physician?

>

> Correct. I do (did) not, unless surgery or a specialist consultation

> was needed.

>

> > If that is the case I want to work for your system and

> > Medical Director. This is the most progressive EMS system I have

> ever heard of.

>

> http://www.goarmy.com/ You may be a little old, but it's worth

> checking out.

>

> > In closing any time I try to have an adult conversation with someone

> and they

> > resort to name-calling and disrespecting another's profession I

> assume they are

> > uninformed and not very professional.

>

> Any time I try to have an adult conversation with someone who makes

> assumptions, I know I am wasting my time.

>

> Rob

> RN, EMT-P, Professional Hose-Monkey (Retired)

>

>

--

Grayson, CCEMT-P www.kellygrayson.com

[Guest guest]

No worries, Bro. I don't see that we really disagree on anything of substantial

concern. We often find ourselves assuming that our experience in EMS is pretty

much the same as every other medic. But even after four decades, I continue to

find systems doing something differently than what I am used to. I just like

people to stop and remember that where one system finds something the norm, many

others may not, including driving. I worked with a lot of civilian medics in

Iraq, and the ones who excelled were those who were able think outside of that

box.

God Bless your son and his sacrifice. I recently had a small reunion with some

of my patients from Iraq, including one that I was sure had died. It was an

emotional meeting, but also the most satisfying moment of my life. I hope that

your son carries that same sense of satisfaction with him.

And yes, I should have, as Doc Krin suggested, used a smilie when saying

" hose-monkey " . It was meant only as self-effacing satire, not as a shot at

anyone.

Cheers,

Rob

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 19:39, " McNevin " cfdc1@...> said:

>

> Rob,

>

> I agree with you that what military medics do in the field would be considered

> " practicing medicine " as they are trained in advanced procedures and must show

> personal initiative in the field to save lives. I know this first hand because

if

> it had not been for a military medic in Iraq, my son would probably not be

here

> today. However, what civilian Paramedics do is not practicing medicine. It is

> pre-hospital emergency care. Yes I am old and have been around a long time but

in

> all those years I have never seen a paramedic write a prescription, stitch up

a

> wound, or perform any type of surgical procedure in the field. I admire you

for

> what you did in your military service and maybe some day the civilian

paramedics

> will be able to perform at the same level you were allowed to.

>

> I guess this is where we will just have to agree to disagree on the subject.

[Guest guest]

No worries, Bro. I don't see that we really disagree on anything of substantial

concern. We often find ourselves assuming that our experience in EMS is pretty

much the same as every other medic. But even after four decades, I continue to

find systems doing something differently than what I am used to. I just like

people to stop and remember that where one system finds something the norm, many

others may not, including driving. I worked with a lot of civilian medics in

Iraq, and the ones who excelled were those who were able think outside of that

box.

God Bless your son and his sacrifice. I recently had a small reunion with some

of my patients from Iraq, including one that I was sure had died. It was an

emotional meeting, but also the most satisfying moment of my life. I hope that

your son carries that same sense of satisfaction with him.

And yes, I should have, as Doc Krin suggested, used a smilie when saying

" hose-monkey " . It was meant only as self-effacing satire, not as a shot at

anyone.

Cheers,

Rob

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 19:39, " McNevin " cfdc1@...> said:

>

> Rob,

>

> I agree with you that what military medics do in the field would be considered

> " practicing medicine " as they are trained in advanced procedures and must show

> personal initiative in the field to save lives. I know this first hand because

if

> it had not been for a military medic in Iraq, my son would probably not be

here

> today. However, what civilian Paramedics do is not practicing medicine. It is

> pre-hospital emergency care. Yes I am old and have been around a long time but

in

> all those years I have never seen a paramedic write a prescription, stitch up

a

> wound, or perform any type of surgical procedure in the field. I admire you

for

> what you did in your military service and maybe some day the civilian

paramedics

> will be able to perform at the same level you were allowed to.

>

> I guess this is where we will just have to agree to disagree on the subject.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your comments. My son is fine and after two tours in Iraq he now

serves as a Recruiter in Indianapolis. He is in his second 6-year sign up and

plans on making the Army his career. Just to let you know he was employed as a

Firefighter/Paramedic in Longview when he enlisted after 911. Thanks for the

" spirited debate " . Always does me good to engage in a conversation with a

different point of view.

Take care and God Bless

To: texasems-l

From: rob.davis@...

Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:46:09 -0500

Subject: RE: Another Interesting Bill

No worries, Bro. I don't see that we really disagree on anything of substantial

concern. We often find ourselves assuming that our experience in EMS is pretty

much the same as every other medic. But even after four decades, I continue to

find systems doing something differently than what I am used to. I just like

people to stop and remember that where one system finds something the norm, many

others may not, including driving. I worked with a lot of civilian medics in

Iraq, and the ones who excelled were those who were able think outside of that

box.

God Bless your son and his sacrifice. I recently had a small reunion with some

of my patients from Iraq, including one that I was sure had died. It was an

emotional meeting, but also the most satisfying moment of my life. I hope that

your son carries that same sense of satisfaction with him.

And yes, I should have, as Doc Krin suggested, used a smilie when saying

" hose-monkey " . It was meant only as self-effacing satire, not as a shot at

anyone.

Cheers,

Rob

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 19:39, " McNevin " cfdc1@...> said:

>

> Rob,

>

> I agree with you that what military medics do in the field would be considered

> " practicing medicine " as they are trained in advanced procedures and must show

> personal initiative in the field to save lives. I know this first hand because

if

> it had not been for a military medic in Iraq, my son would probably not be

here

> today. However, what civilian Paramedics do is not practicing medicine. It is

> pre-hospital emergency care. Yes I am old and have been around a long time but

in

> all those years I have never seen a paramedic write a prescription, stitch up

a

> wound, or perform any type of surgical procedure in the field. I admire you

for

> what you did in your military service and maybe some day the civilian

paramedics

> will be able to perform at the same level you were allowed to.

>

> I guess this is where we will just have to agree to disagree on the subject.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your comments. My son is fine and after two tours in Iraq he now

serves as a Recruiter in Indianapolis. He is in his second 6-year sign up and

plans on making the Army his career. Just to let you know he was employed as a

Firefighter/Paramedic in Longview when he enlisted after 911. Thanks for the

" spirited debate " . Always does me good to engage in a conversation with a

different point of view.

Take care and God Bless

To: texasems-l

From: rob.davis@...

Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:46:09 -0500

Subject: RE: Another Interesting Bill

No worries, Bro. I don't see that we really disagree on anything of substantial

concern. We often find ourselves assuming that our experience in EMS is pretty

much the same as every other medic. But even after four decades, I continue to

find systems doing something differently than what I am used to. I just like

people to stop and remember that where one system finds something the norm, many

others may not, including driving. I worked with a lot of civilian medics in

Iraq, and the ones who excelled were those who were able think outside of that

box.

God Bless your son and his sacrifice. I recently had a small reunion with some

of my patients from Iraq, including one that I was sure had died. It was an

emotional meeting, but also the most satisfying moment of my life. I hope that

your son carries that same sense of satisfaction with him.

And yes, I should have, as Doc Krin suggested, used a smilie when saying

" hose-monkey " . It was meant only as self-effacing satire, not as a shot at

anyone.

Cheers,

Rob

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 19:39, " McNevin " cfdc1@...> said:

>

> Rob,

>

> I agree with you that what military medics do in the field would be considered

> " practicing medicine " as they are trained in advanced procedures and must show

> personal initiative in the field to save lives. I know this first hand because

if

> it had not been for a military medic in Iraq, my son would probably not be

here

> today. However, what civilian Paramedics do is not practicing medicine. It is

> pre-hospital emergency care. Yes I am old and have been around a long time but

in

> all those years I have never seen a paramedic write a prescription, stitch up

a

> wound, or perform any type of surgical procedure in the field. I admire you

for

> what you did in your military service and maybe some day the civilian

paramedics

> will be able to perform at the same level you were allowed to.

>

> I guess this is where we will just have to agree to disagree on the subject.