Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

March 6, 2008

Absolutely! If you use adequate estrogen daily (enough to built a uterine

lining ) and 20mg progesterone (P) for 10 to 14 days monthly, you will have

a period.

On Wiley Protocol, I had a full 5 day period each month which was a

cleansing relief feeling. It was the high progesterone that made me feel

AWFUL!! Now I know why.

Getting past all this progesterone , I believe, blocked my estrogen and

maybe my body converted cortisol to estrogen. Anyway, I believe my real

serious adrenal problems stem from all this.

Delores

Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> >

> > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of it's

> rangfe

> > > wihtout being over.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Artistic Grooming-

> Hurricane WV

> > >

> > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > >

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

> > >

March 6, 2008

>>Getting past all this progesterone , I believe, blocked my estrogen and

maybe my body converted cortisol to estrogen. Anyway, I believe my real

serious adrenal problems stem from all this.<<

As progesterone can bind to cortiosl receptors but does not ACT liek cortisol it

can create low cortisl symptoms by blocking your OWN cortisl form working

properly. Yes over time, this could deifnitely be the cause of adrenal fatigue.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

March 6, 2008

These ranges are:

estradiol, serum 146 (range NG/ML -follicular phase 15 - 160, midcycle

34 - 400, treated postmenopausal 15-93)

progesterone 17.3 (range post menopause .1 - .8 NG/ML)

free testosterone .7 (range .03 - 1.55 NG/ML)

Delores

Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml

>

> Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml

>

> Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml

>

> Can you post YOUR lab's ranges with these?

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

March 6, 2008

Sorry Val....should have known better...just noticed my lab's ranges

are different:---

>

> Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9)

>

> Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0)

>

> Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03)

>

>THESE ARE ALL POST MENOPAUSAL RANGES.

Still low in everything dont' ya think? In post menopause, where do

we want to be in our estrogen....top third? What about progest?

Isn't it supposed to be like 10 times higher?

THANKS VAL!!!

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

March 6, 2008

wOW....for me menstruation was never a 'cleansing releif;. It was

pure torture and I knelt and thanked God at 42 yrs of age, for

giving me a premature meno.

Did I read somewhere that you can take the hormones all month to

avoid this???

Val....are you getting periods as well? Sorry if I'm being too

nosey....but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be

thrilled to know!

Naffy

> > >

> > > I'm 67. When I was about 64, my then Dr told me my estradiol

> > could be up to

> > > 200 (above most ranges I have seen). I still feel best when

my E

> > is around

> > > 150. I'm still having a problem using progesterone (and I

have a

> > uterus)

> > > because of storing so much P on the Wiley Protocol. When I

try P

> > for even 2

> > > or 3 days, it makes me VERY PMS feeling. My now Dr (very main

> > stream

> > > medicine) knows my history and tells me to just use E for now

and

> > he'll

> > > monitor my uterus build up. I haven't had a period since last

Oct

> > so

> > > decided to try P again. Yesterday was day 4 and I can't stand

the

> > way it

> > > makes me feel so I'm giving up for now. I was just using

Progest

> > (20mg

> > > daily). I'm using 8mg of E daily.

> > >

> > > Delores

> > >

> > > Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> > >

> > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of

it's

> > rangfe

> > > > wihtout being over.

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Artistic Grooming-

> > Hurricane WV

> > > >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > >

> >

> > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert

Bracelets

> > > >

March 6, 2008

>

I'm really happy for you! That is wonderful news!

Dahlia

> I trust him YES! I am actually excited ot see this one I have been

> chatting online for several months with but I am not at liberty to

give

> out his name as he is a bit scrutinized as almost all good doctors

are

> and really wants only local patients or people that can come ot see

him.

> Of course I do not trust him enough to forget all I have learned,

but

> between us I think I can get better than I am.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

March 6, 2008

but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be

> thrilled to know!

>

> Naffy

>

I am taking bioidentical hormones, a mix of estrogen, progesterone and

testosterone. I haven't had a period since Jan. of 2006. I am 56

years old.

Beebe

March 6, 2008

I wonder what the difference between sublingual prog. and prog. cream?

I know the cream is built up and stored in the fat cells. I've taken

the sublingual form for 2 1/2 years.

I also take testosterone cream. A while back it was way high(in

saliva and blood), I guess too much cream or DHEA or Prog. Confused I

was. Doctor flipped out and said, " since it's stored in the fat cells

it could take 6 months to bring it down. " So, I completely

stopped(testos. only) and had it re-checked in 4 WEEKS. Shocked, it

was back down to almost nothing. Urg. I'm taking it again, just less.

> >

> > This is interesting as abotu 3-4 years ago I had very high

> progesterone

> > due to supplementation thta I was accidentally using too much. I

> still

> > get veyr bad fluid retentoin and depressed feeligns from

> progesterone.

> > Is it possible this over dose lasts this long? I will have ot be

> asking

> > some pointed questions when I see this doc in April. Thankfully I

> do nto

> > have a uterus so really do nto have to worry about that side

> effect form

> > not taking it.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

> WV

> >

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

> > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

> >

>

March 6, 2008

Yes, you can take estrogen AND progesterone all month and avoid the period.

I did it for 10 years, low dose estrogen (tri est cream .75mg estradiol,

..25 mg estrone and 1.25 mg estriol BID - twice daily) AND 200 - 300mg

prometrium (natural progesterone made by a drug co) every day. What I

didn't know then was that progesterone, even though it has a very short half

life, can be stored in your body fat and can effect your immune system. As

long as you DO NOT build up a uterine lining, you WILL NOT have a period. I

found this method NOT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

Delores

Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> > > >

> > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of

> it's

> > > rangfe

> > > > > wihtout being over.

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Artistic Grooming-

> > > Hurricane WV

> > > > >

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert

> Bracelets

> > > > >

March 6, 2008

I had a HYST so no periods! LOL

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

March 6, 2008

Well how will I know if I am building a uterine lining? This is all

so confusing. I thought the adrenal/thyroid stuff was bad, but I

doubt I will EVER get this one right! LOL

But I REFUSE to go through menstruation again, NO WAY.

Guess I'll just do the whole month method, and deal with the immune

issues, if they come.

Thanks!

Naffy

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm 67. When I was about 64, my then Dr told me my

estradiol

> > > > could be up to

> > > > > 200 (above most ranges I have seen). I still feel best

when

> > my E

> > > > is around

> > > > > 150. I'm still having a problem using progesterone (and I

> > have a

> > > > uterus)

> > > > > because of storing so much P on the Wiley Protocol. When I

> > try P

> > > > for even 2

> > > > > or 3 days, it makes me VERY PMS feeling. My now Dr (very

main

> > > > stream

> > > > > medicine) knows my history and tells me to just use E for

now

> > and

> > > > he'll

> > > > > monitor my uterus build up. I haven't had a period since

last

> > Oct

> > > > so

> > > > > decided to try P again. Yesterday was day 4 and I can't

stand

> > the

> > > > way it

> > > > > makes me feel so I'm giving up for now. I was just using

> > Progest

> > > > (20mg

> > > > > daily). I'm using 8mg of E daily.

> > > > >

> > > > > Delores

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> > > > >

> > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of

> > it's

> > > > rangfe

> > > > > > wihtout being over.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Artistic Grooming-

> > > > Hurricane WV

> > > > > >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

> > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert

> > Bracelets

> > > > > >

March 6, 2008

Well how will I know if I am building a uterine lining? This is all

so confusing. I thought the adrenal/thyroid stuff was bad, but I

doubt I will EVER get this one right! LOL

But I REFUSE to go through menstruation again, NO WAY.

Guess I'll just do the whole month method, and deal with the immune

issues, if they come.

Thanks!

Naffy

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm 67. When I was about 64, my then Dr told me my

estradiol

> > > > could be up to

> > > > > 200 (above most ranges I have seen). I still feel best

when

> > my E

> > > > is around

> > > > > 150. I'm still having a problem using progesterone (and I

> > have a

> > > > uterus)

> > > > > because of storing so much P on the Wiley Protocol. When I

> > try P

> > > > for even 2

> > > > > or 3 days, it makes me VERY PMS feeling. My now Dr (very

main

> > > > stream

> > > > > medicine) knows my history and tells me to just use E for

now

> > and

> > > > he'll

> > > > > monitor my uterus build up. I haven't had a period since

last

> > Oct

> > > > so

> > > > > decided to try P again. Yesterday was day 4 and I can't

stand

> > the

> > > > way it

> > > > > makes me feel so I'm giving up for now. I was just using

> > Progest

> > > > (20mg

> > > > > daily). I'm using 8mg of E daily.

> > > > >

> > > > > Delores

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> > > > >

> > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of

> > it's

> > > > rangfe

> > > > > > wihtout being over.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Artistic Grooming-

> > > > Hurricane WV

> > > > > >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

> > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert

> > Bracelets

> > > > > >

March 6, 2008

Stop bragging Val!!! LOL

Ok....am officially envious.

nAFFY

>

> I had a HYST so no periods! LOL

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

>

March 6, 2008

I insist on a pelvic ultrasound annually. That will show if you have too

much build up in your uterine lining and also show any ovarian cysts, etc.

Delores

Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of

> > > it's

> > > > > rangfe

> > > > > > > wihtout being over.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Artistic Grooming-

> > > > > Hurricane WV

> > > > > > >

> > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert

> > > Bracelets

> > > > > > >

March 6, 2008

I was using Progest cream 20mg. I believe 20mg is all Dr Formby said was

necessary. It certainly worked for me to have a period last Oct (just 10

days on Progest 20mg) and I had a 5 day period with no cramps.

Delores

Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> > > >

> > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of it's

> > > rangfe

> > > > > wihtout being over.

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Artistic Grooming-

> > > Hurricane WV

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > > > >

> > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

> > > > >

March 6, 2008

>

> but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be

> > thrilled to know!

> >

> > Naffy

> >

>

> I am taking bioidentical hormones, a mix of estrogen, progesterone

and

> testosterone. I haven't had a period since Jan. of 2006. I am 56

> years old.

>

> Beebe

>

Hi

I am 60 next Tuesday and been using one pump Esttrogel daily since

2001 when I had my last period. I have never bleed once in that time

even after 10days of 100mg Cyclogest which causes me massive

migraines and blocks my Pred twice yearly. In the end I could end up

murdering my husband so last time I could only manage 9 days.

I believe that if you only use low dose Estrogen as per Larrian

Gillespie you do not stimulate the lining then there is nothing to

loose, at least that has been my experience.

Pam

March 6, 2008

Thanks Delores, I think that I will give the cream a try.

Gale

>

> I was using Progest cream 20mg. I believe 20mg is all Dr Formby

said was

> necessary. It certainly worked for me to have a period last Oct

(just 10

> days on Progest 20mg) and I had a 5 day period with no cramps.

>

> Delores

March 6, 2008

Thanks Beebe,

I'm assuming you don't take breaks from it...just take it every day

month after month?

Naffy

> >

> > but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be

> > > thrilled to know!

> > >

> > > Naffy

> > >

> >

> > I am taking bioidentical hormones, a mix of estrogen,

progesterone

> and

> > testosterone. I haven't had a period since Jan. of 2006. I am

56

> > years old.

> >

> > Beebe

> >

> Hi

>

> I am 60 next Tuesday and been using one pump Esttrogel daily since

> 2001 when I had my last period. I have never bleed once in that

time

> even after 10days of 100mg Cyclogest which causes me massive

> migraines and blocks my Pred twice yearly. In the end I could end

up

> murdering my husband so last time I could only manage 9 days.

>

> I believe that if you only use low dose Estrogen as per Larrian

> Gillespie you do not stimulate the lining then there is nothing to

> loose, at least that has been my experience.

>

> Pam

>

March 6, 2008

Bump. I think this got lost in this morning's shuffle,

>

> Sorry Val....should have known better...just noticed my lab's

ranges

> are different:---

> >

> > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9)

> >

> > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0)

> >

> > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03)

> >

> >THESE ARE ALL POST MENOPAUSAL RANGES.

>

> Still low in everything dont' ya think? In post menopause, where

do

> we want to be in our estrogen....top third? What about progest?

> Isn't it supposed to be like 10 times higher?

>

> THANKS VAL!!!

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming-

Hurricane

> WV

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >

>

> > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

> >

>

March 6, 2008

Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) OUCH LOW!!!

> >

> > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) little low

> >

> > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) OUCH Low

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

March 6, 2008

Yes, I know...they are very low. But my question is what are we

aiming for here..postmenopausal. Are we shooting for top of range

in all three....middle range? I have no idea.

Thanks

Naffy

>

> Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) OUCH LOW!!!

> > >

> > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) little low

> > >

> > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) OUCH Low

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

March 6, 2008

I would shoot for close to top of range. Menopausal ranges are alreaydy

lowered. SO we sure do nto want them any lower than that. If your lab

gives a range for HRT poet Meno more the better as it is usually higher.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

March 6, 2008

Ok....will test on Sat. and then depending on the results, start up

on estrogen/progesterone and testosterone. Can't beleive I'm

starting this 13 years into menopause, but guess better late than

never. Wondering how long it will take to get those labs

higher....mine are really in the dirt!

Thanks Val,

naffy

>

> I would shoot for close to top of range. Menopausal ranges are

alreaydy

> lowered. SO we sure do nto want them any lower than that. If your

lab

> gives a range for HRT poet Meno more the better as it is usually

higher.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

March 7, 2008

You know, I prefer to go by " the listening to my body theory " .

I DO NOT want my sex hormones (especially estrogen and progesterone) to be

stuck in " post menopausal range " if I feel yukkie. My estrogen gives me

energy and makes me happy and makes be feel sexy even at 67. It makes me

feel good about myself. When my estrogen drops below 100, I FEEL IT. Feel

old, drag around. I think you have to listen to your body and we are all

different. Dr Uzzi Reiss in " Natural Hormone Balance for Women " (a step by

step guide for hormone replacement for all ages) is big about learning to

hear what your body symptoms are saying. Some hormone symptoms may be more

subtle than others but estrogen is the steriod queen - she rules.

Dr Bent Formby says there is no good science to support the assertion that

estrogen is a carcinogen. It , according to him, promotes cell

differentiation. Dr Formby holds PHDs in biochemistry, biophysics, and

molecular biology from University of Copenhagen and is currently conducting

cancer research in CA. One other thing, who has the most cancer and other

disease? I think older people with hormones all out of balance ---- not

younger people with surging hormones pretty much in balance. That attracted

me to Wiley Protocol but Dr Formby disassociated himself from that because

of the ultra high amounts of both hormones. I'm on 8mg estradiol once daily

and still detoxing from too much progesterone (from Wiley Protocol). Last

Aug I even convinced by OB/GYN Dr (who is associate professor at Mercer

Medical School here) to give me the 8mg estradiol cream BID for a year to

help me get rid of the excess progesterone. He is the same Dr who did not

feel comfortable increasing my 1mg daily estradiol 6 months prior to that.

All the pub med studies and writings of Dr Formby which I took to him

changed his mind. He said he remembered when he first started his practice,

it was common to prescribe 5 or 6 mg estrogen to post menopausal women then

we know drug companies and FDA got overly involved ----- Oh Well!!

So, my theory is that I am aiming for the range that makes my body

happy!!!!!!! I use the blood work as a guide. My photo is posted on the

site and I think I look happy and extra good for my age!

Even with healing adrenals, I still feel good about myself and have

" estrogen " energy!

Hope this helps someone.

Delores

Re: Overwhelmed-afraid

> Yes, I know...they are very low. But my question is what are we

> aiming for here..postmenopausal. Are we shooting for top of range

> in all three....middle range? I have no idea.

>

> Thanks

>

> Naffy

>

> >

> > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) OUCH LOW!!!

> > > >

> > > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) little low

> > > >

> > > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) OUCH Low

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

> WV

> >