RE: Kindergarten next fall-thinking ahead

October 16, 2006

For those of you my email actually helped-yeahhh! I will have to show my

husband, as he just laughs at my ramblings!

Anyway, I completely understand why academics seems where the focus should be

directed, when making this decision. I agree, to a point. However, just in the

past year, my son has grown so much socially. He went thru 2 years of

pre-school never making one friend. He started kindergarten and made a few

friends. This year, he has a best friend! Actually, he has 3 best friends! For

any of you that has a child that struggles socially, I know you can relate to

how exciting this is. The issues we struggled with, when Jadon was not as

socially confident were-refusal to go to school, lack of interest, and quite a

bit of rebellion when even bringing up anything to do with school. Of course,

these issues effected him academically. He wasn't even willing to learn! He

never had fun in school and with that being said, he certainly wasn't willing to

come home and want to work on the same things he didn't want to work on in

school!

In some ways, academics and socialization goes hand in hand. In order to

achieve progress in one area, our children need progress in the other to feel

confident, to apply what they know in the other area. Wow, that sounds

confusing!

Of course, when all is said in done, we are all trying to achieve the same

thing..... to have smart, well rounded children that make a lot of money to

support us in our retirement years! haha!

October 16, 2006

>

> In general, I've always advocated not holding kids back if they

> are ready academically. However, Clara's birthday is awfully

> late in the year. Elias's birthday is Feb 15, so he is officially

> not being " held back " according to the cutoff date, but because

> of where his birthday is, he essentially gets a whole extra

> year of preschool. And believe me, he needs it.

>

> My older kid finished kindergarten last year, so I learned quite

> a bit. My take on it is that it didn't seem so important that

> a child be able to socialize well with other kids, but it is really

> important that a child be able to follow directions, do tasks

> when asked, and interact well with the teacher. Some of the

> kids in my older son's class were very immature with respect

> to the other kids, but did very well anyway. I found that

> kindergarten was much more structured than preschool, and

> the kids didn't tend to run all over each other the way they

> do in preschool.

>

> But Elias is the opposite. He does well with other kids, but

> is still pretty difficult with teachers. He is stubborn. He can't

> write letters at all (he gets OT to help him with this). He can't

> use scissors and his motor skills are behind by about a year.

> I think these things are important and he is benefiting by the

> extra time.

>

> So my advice would be - if Clara is having trouble with skills

> that will impact her academically, then definitely wait. If it

> is just interacting with other kids, then it is more of a

> judgement call.

>

> Does Clara get OT for her handwriting problems? The kindergarten

> here definitely expects kids to come in being able to write.

> Elias has had OT (and PT) through the school district for over a year

> now to help with that skill.

>

> I guess my last bit of advice would be - if you do hold her back,

> try to find a preschool that works on the skills she is lacking.

>

> I don't know if I made sense either...

>

> Bonnie

>

She doesn't get OT now. when she had early intervention in CA (we

lived there until Clara was almost 2), she got OT/PT, and she got PT

when we moved to CT until she turned 3. I actually wasn't impressed

with the OTs and PTs, so I didn't really pursue it with the school

district. What would the OT do? I help her practice tracing

letters, draw circles and Xs. And her name. Oh, and we do scissors

sometimes. She just makes little cuts, she can't cut around a picture

to cut it out.

Just how well do they expect these kids to write at the beginning of

Kindergarten? It seems hard to believe that all these kids come in

knowing how.

You also said that Kindergarten is much more structured than

pre-school. I think that's good for Clara. She likes to know what's

going to happen when. So in that sense, Kindergarten may be a good

plan. She follows directions well if she can hear them.

Also, we are probably going to be moving to a different district in

the spring. We are looking at Bethel, CT, just south of Danbury, for

those familiar with the area. That complicates things a bit if we do

decide to send her to Kindergarten next year. If we think she should

have an FM, we'll need time to get that set up.

In a lot of states, she wouldn't make the cut-off, so this wouldn't

even be an issue.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. Trish, don't apologize for

being blunt. Your post was just fine and good luck with the PPT.

Cheryl

October 16, 2006

>

> In general, I've always advocated not holding kids back if they

> are ready academically. However, Clara's birthday is awfully

> late in the year. Elias's birthday is Feb 15, so he is officially

> not being " held back " according to the cutoff date, but because

> of where his birthday is, he essentially gets a whole extra

> year of preschool. And believe me, he needs it.

>

> My older kid finished kindergarten last year, so I learned quite

> a bit. My take on it is that it didn't seem so important that

> a child be able to socialize well with other kids, but it is really

> important that a child be able to follow directions, do tasks

> when asked, and interact well with the teacher. Some of the

> kids in my older son's class were very immature with respect

> to the other kids, but did very well anyway. I found that

> kindergarten was much more structured than preschool, and

> the kids didn't tend to run all over each other the way they

> do in preschool.

>

> But Elias is the opposite. He does well with other kids, but

> is still pretty difficult with teachers. He is stubborn. He can't

> write letters at all (he gets OT to help him with this). He can't

> use scissors and his motor skills are behind by about a year.

> I think these things are important and he is benefiting by the

> extra time.

>

> So my advice would be - if Clara is having trouble with skills

> that will impact her academically, then definitely wait. If it

> is just interacting with other kids, then it is more of a

> judgement call.

>

> Does Clara get OT for her handwriting problems? The kindergarten

> here definitely expects kids to come in being able to write.

> Elias has had OT (and PT) through the school district for over a year

> now to help with that skill.

>

> I guess my last bit of advice would be - if you do hold her back,

> try to find a preschool that works on the skills she is lacking.

>

> I don't know if I made sense either...

>

> Bonnie

>

She doesn't get OT now. when she had early intervention in CA (we

lived there until Clara was almost 2), she got OT/PT, and she got PT

when we moved to CT until she turned 3. I actually wasn't impressed

with the OTs and PTs, so I didn't really pursue it with the school

district. What would the OT do? I help her practice tracing

letters, draw circles and Xs. And her name. Oh, and we do scissors

sometimes. She just makes little cuts, she can't cut around a picture

to cut it out.

Just how well do they expect these kids to write at the beginning of

Kindergarten? It seems hard to believe that all these kids come in

knowing how.

You also said that Kindergarten is much more structured than

pre-school. I think that's good for Clara. She likes to know what's

going to happen when. So in that sense, Kindergarten may be a good

plan. She follows directions well if she can hear them.

Also, we are probably going to be moving to a different district in

the spring. We are looking at Bethel, CT, just south of Danbury, for

those familiar with the area. That complicates things a bit if we do

decide to send her to Kindergarten next year. If we think she should

have an FM, we'll need time to get that set up.

In a lot of states, she wouldn't make the cut-off, so this wouldn't

even be an issue.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. Trish, don't apologize for

being blunt. Your post was just fine and good luck with the PPT.

Cheryl

October 16, 2006

>

> In general, I've always advocated not holding kids back if they

> are ready academically. However, Clara's birthday is awfully

> late in the year. Elias's birthday is Feb 15, so he is officially

> not being " held back " according to the cutoff date, but because

> of where his birthday is, he essentially gets a whole extra

> year of preschool. And believe me, he needs it.

>

> My older kid finished kindergarten last year, so I learned quite

> a bit. My take on it is that it didn't seem so important that

> a child be able to socialize well with other kids, but it is really

> important that a child be able to follow directions, do tasks

> when asked, and interact well with the teacher. Some of the

> kids in my older son's class were very immature with respect

> to the other kids, but did very well anyway. I found that

> kindergarten was much more structured than preschool, and

> the kids didn't tend to run all over each other the way they

> do in preschool.

>

> But Elias is the opposite. He does well with other kids, but

> is still pretty difficult with teachers. He is stubborn. He can't

> write letters at all (he gets OT to help him with this). He can't

> use scissors and his motor skills are behind by about a year.

> I think these things are important and he is benefiting by the

> extra time.

>

> So my advice would be - if Clara is having trouble with skills

> that will impact her academically, then definitely wait. If it

> is just interacting with other kids, then it is more of a

> judgement call.

>

> Does Clara get OT for her handwriting problems? The kindergarten

> here definitely expects kids to come in being able to write.

> Elias has had OT (and PT) through the school district for over a year

> now to help with that skill.

>

> I guess my last bit of advice would be - if you do hold her back,

> try to find a preschool that works on the skills she is lacking.

>

> I don't know if I made sense either...

>

> Bonnie

>

She doesn't get OT now. when she had early intervention in CA (we

lived there until Clara was almost 2), she got OT/PT, and she got PT

when we moved to CT until she turned 3. I actually wasn't impressed

with the OTs and PTs, so I didn't really pursue it with the school

district. What would the OT do? I help her practice tracing

letters, draw circles and Xs. And her name. Oh, and we do scissors

sometimes. She just makes little cuts, she can't cut around a picture

to cut it out.

Just how well do they expect these kids to write at the beginning of

Kindergarten? It seems hard to believe that all these kids come in

knowing how.

You also said that Kindergarten is much more structured than

pre-school. I think that's good for Clara. She likes to know what's

going to happen when. So in that sense, Kindergarten may be a good

plan. She follows directions well if she can hear them.

Also, we are probably going to be moving to a different district in

the spring. We are looking at Bethel, CT, just south of Danbury, for

those familiar with the area. That complicates things a bit if we do

decide to send her to Kindergarten next year. If we think she should

have an FM, we'll need time to get that set up.

In a lot of states, she wouldn't make the cut-off, so this wouldn't

even be an issue.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. Trish, don't apologize for

being blunt. Your post was just fine and good luck with the PPT.

Cheryl

October 17, 2006

Elias's OT works with him on hand strengthening exercises, because

low muscle tone is the reason for his problems with fine motor control.

She has special scissors and pencil grips that help him use those

items more successfully. Confidence was a real issue for him. Before

he started OT, he pretty much refused to do anything that had to

do with drawing or writing. He has improved a lot, although he is still

way behind. He can just barely write his name - even though he has

been able to spell his name out loud for well over a year. It is really

frustrating for him.

Kindergarten may well vary from place to place, but what I saw

in Malachi's kindergarten was lots and lots and lots of writing.

It is possible that some kids came in without being able to write

letters, but I guarantee that they learned in a hurry! They did a lot

of workbook pages where they had to draw lines, circle things,

write letters and numbers, and cut things with scissors.

They were also expected to do a lot of drawing and coloring.

The academic portion of the work was actually not very challenging - my

older son was dying of boredom for most of the year. Right now,

Elias can do the first grade math sheets that Malachi is bringing

home, so I don't worry about his readiness for the academic content.

But he is going to have a terrible time with the handwriting, drawing,

and scissoring.

And that brings me to the other reason why an OT is important. Because

Elias has received OT services from the school district during preschool,

it should be relatively easy to make the case that he will need

accomodations in kindergarten for the handwriting activities. One of the

roles of the OT is to help figure out what those accomodations should

be, and add support during the IEP (PPT) meeting.

Do you know yet if kindergarten will be whole day or half day

in Bethel?

BTW, I used to work in Danbury, at WestConn. I know that area fairly well.

Bonnie

>

> She doesn't get OT now. when she had early intervention in CA (we

> lived there until Clara was almost 2), she got OT/PT, and she got PT

> when we moved to CT until she turned 3. I actually wasn't impressed

> with the OTs and PTs, so I didn't really pursue it with the school

> district. What would the OT do? I help her practice tracing

> letters, draw circles and Xs. And her name. Oh, and we do scissors

> sometimes. She just makes little cuts, she can't cut around a picture

> to cut it out.

>

> J

>

October 17, 2006

Here I sit with the other end of this -- and yes, I want an instruction

manual! More so for the 'tween daughter than the son. Our cutoff was in

mid-December, but I think it has changed to the beginning of Nov since Ian

started

school.

Ian started Kindergarten at 4 and turned 5 a few weeks into kindergarten. He

had the first birthday party of the year. He is usually one of the smallest

and certainly one of the youngest. Ian was quite shy -- painfully so, but it

was something that we were working on with success. He was reading, doing

basic math, had all the fine and gross motor skills as well as the language

skills he needed to start. And we did start him.

The reasons: he had the academic skills he needed, he was not emotionally

immature but he was socially immature. His struggles in 2nd grade had nothing

to do with the decision to start him early, they were related solely to his

unaddressed hearing loss. He now is in the upper 20% of his class as far as

grades and socially he is just fine. We don't regret the decision to send him

" on time " for kindergarten.

However, my nephew whose birthday is in May, only a few month younger than

my daughter, was held back because they felt he was both socially and

emotionally immature and not yet ready for school. Academically he was even

ahead of

his peers. His younger brother whose birthday is in October didn't make the

cut-off (Sept) for their school district and so the boys are the " right "

number of grades apart to correspond to their ages. My brother doesn't regret

holding back their son and they're considering it for their youngest, a

daughter.

For her, I think it is going to be an unnecessary thing, she is very much

ready for kindergarten, but that's not my call. And in fact, it is not really

going to be doing her any harm to hold her for a year.

One of my son's good friends will start his senior year as an 18-year-old.

He " lost " a year due to his cancer treatments during elementary school. He

seems no " older " than his classmates and academically he and Ian are about the

same. The boys all think it's cool that he can drive and is the first to have

his own car. His mother said he could have the old family car if he fixed it

up. So he did, hands-on teaching himself to repair cars which he now teaches

to the other guys. A status symbol in high school!

I was one of the youngest, graduating before my 18th birthday. My sisters

were both held due to their late birthdays and maturity issues. Academically

either of them could have started " on time " but that was not the right choice

for them.

This decision really does have to be about the individual child's abilities.

We were concerned about the social issues, so we put Ian into a half-day

nursery school and his social skills improved by leaps. We saw those strides

and

since that was our only real concern, we put him into kindergarten. Had he

not thrived in nursery school or if there had been more issues we were

considering, then we would have made a completely different choice.

Best advice ... go with your mommy-gut on this one.

-- Jill

October 17, 2006

In a message dated 10/16/2006 7:23:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

sfreitasi@... writes:

PS I also know that some school districts have started to offer two years of

kindergarten - they are doing a pilot program of that at one of our local

elementary schools, so it will be interesting to see if that trend spreads.

Ours does this. There is K which is a half-day program and then a transition

year that is a full day, called K-1. The content is for those not ready to

make the move to 1st but being able to handle more than just another year of

half-day Kindergarten. It is a really good program and several of my

daughter's friends went through it. It didn't exist when Ian was in K.

Best -- Jill

October 17, 2006

In a message dated 10/16/2006 7:51:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cherwolmo@... writes:

My mother inlaw is

afraid that Clara will be upset if she is a year behind her cousin.

They wouldn't be going to the same school though. So I don't think

it's that huge a deal. Just thought I'd throw it in anyway.

Kids don't really care. doesn't think of mer one cousin as an idiot

because he is behind her by a year. He is MUCH smaller than she is, and not as

emotionally mature. He seems like he is right where he belongs, and he is.

Another cousin is only 6 months older than she is and is a grade ahead of

her. He has been struggling for quite a while and is now receiving tutoring. He

was always young for his age in every respect, from reading to emotional

stuff. But they didn't hold him because they felt it would be an embarrassment.

So, instead they have a kid who is not succeeding and is struggling his way

through middle school.

Personally, I'd rather have had a successful slightly older child -- who

gets to be the cool one who is driving at the start of his junior year. (grin)

Jill

October 17, 2006

In a message dated 10/16/2006 10:14:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

babydewe2@... writes:

But like you, I'm not sure that he will be ready for Kindergarten. I'm

fortunate that I have a few friends who are teachers and have access to the

kindergarten readiness testing. They have already told me if I want them to

test

him, they will.

Thank you for posting this! I'd forgotten about it, but we also had this

testing through the nursery school. Our district doesn't test for readiness. It

was a VERY good nursery school and both my kids went there. They bring in a

specialist who is in the classroom with the kids for a few days so she's not

a " stranger " and then does the testing on each child.

It was interesting to see how someone other than me assessed my kids.

Jill

October 17, 2006

Rather than making the decision completely on your own, I recommend that you

meet with the counselor (or whoever handles IEPs) at the school your daughter

would attend.

Does your daughter have an IEP yet? If so, you should bring this up to the IEP

committee to see what feedback you get. If not, now is the best time to get the

ball rolling to have one in place *before* she started K'garten, whether she

starts this year or next. The IEP committee should consist of teachers and

therapists who know your daughter, and who know the school system, and they

should be able to help you make the best decision for your daughter. Preschool

IEPs are geared both toward making sure that the child will be ready to enter

Kindergarten when the time comes, as well as helping the school get ready for

the child.

Another thing to consider is that enrolling your child in K'garten is not a

permanent placement. If you decide to let her try it, you could always take her

out if it doesn't seem to be working. It's also very common for kids to repeat

Kindergarten (or later grades) to get caught up.

Our son started Kindergarten on track, but he had three years of speech

therapy at the same school, along with other IEP evaluations, so when he started

school, he already felt like a regular student there.

Kiminy

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

October 17, 2006

Maggie has a late birthday but within our district's cut off. She was diagnosed

late (almost 4 years old), so we purposefully held her back and did 5K twice.

First time through was a preschool with a half day 5K and the second time at

" real school. " She always says " I should be in 10th grade but I keep reminding

her that all her friends are in 9th grade. Now she is in honors classes, it is

honors if you take the class early. Like Algebra in 8th and Geometry in 9th. If

you have doubts, wait. My sister struggled in school and was held back in 2nd

grade - it was emotionally devastating to her. It is really popular for people

here to wait until 6 for kindergarten. Most kids are in private school (our

public schools are a disaster) and they are VERY academic even in kindergarten.

I'd say about 1/3 of the kids in my younger daughters class were late starters

and most of my older daughter's friends were a year older than her because they

started later.

October 17, 2006

is a December 12th Bday...before he was dx hi last December, his

private school was going to let him start kindergarten this year. I'm

glad we ended up finding out why he wasn't grasping anything.

I just had his Parent Teacher Conference this morning at his PreK. He's

in a 4 year old integrated program at a special needs pre school.

Essentially I sat there for a half hour while 4 different people told me

how wonderful he is. That doesn't hurt any:) I know when next

September comes, he will really be ready for kindergarten, hopefully a

little above average. Since he wasn't diagnosed until 4yrs, 1 month, he

missed a lot. Colors and numbers still give him a hard time, but they

say it's " coming " . I had told them a few weeks ago about the labels we

have around the house and how he loves it...so they have started doing

that with him at school for colors, it's helping him a lot to see the

word for the color...and apparently it clicks that way...so they say

he's kinda skipped a step, now we're using his letters/reading

skills/sight words to learn colors...hey, I'd rather him know how to

read than know all of his colors and not know how to read...

I originally wanted him in an earlier K class b/c he's so big...he's in

the 97-100th percentile for a 6 year old....he won't be 5 until

december....and has yet to stop growing...or even slow down for a

day....last night he had two grilled cheese sandwiches from BK at

6:30...at 9:30 he came down stairs whining that he was hungry and ate a

whole bowl of oatmeal squares...

Anyway...I think academically he will be very ready next

year...Socially, they say he's actually ahead of where he should

be....lot of leadership/awareness of other kid's issues...etc. I think

all in all he turn out ok...

I just hope he doesn't end up being held back, because then he would be

the big goofy kid 2ft taller than his peers...

He already gets confused thinking kids the same size are his

age....don't want him being the freshman with his license:)

Have a great day~

Naughton

Sales Associate

State Farm Insurance

Mike , Agent

58 Washington Street

Saratoga Springs, NY 12866

AState Farm®

Providing Insurance and Financial Services®

October 17, 2006

This happened in our family. is 4 months older than her cousin.

's birthday is in June and her cousins is in October. So although we

always say they are the same age, they are a year apart in school. That

actually turned out to be a good thing for my niece. She is an extremely shy

child and the extra time seems to be working for her. My niece attends school

in another town and I'm not even sure if she realizes that is a school

year ahead of her.

Debbie

chmorg cherwolmo@...> wrote:

This is another minor thing. Her cousin is going to start

Kindergarten next year. She is 6 months older. My mother inlaw is

afraid that Clara will be upset if she is a year behind her cousin.

They wouldn't be going to the same school though. So I don't think

it's that huge a deal. Just thought I'd throw it in anyway.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were

and ask why not. G.B Shaw

---------------------------------

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small

Business.

October 18, 2006

In a message dated 10/18/2006 3:40:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cherwolmo@... writes:

Does anyone know if

I can start asking about setting up services before we move, or do we

have to be residents there? I would think that we would have to

actually be living there, or at least have purchased a house.

Cheryl

You can ask. I'd contact the district and make it sound like it's pretty

much a done deal, not like you're only considering the district -- shopping

around for the best one in the area. Let them know you will be bringing along a

fully developed IEP and need to find out what services are available and to

make sure that they are ready to support the child's needs.

Some schools will discuss things with you ahead of time, others will refuse

until you are actually there as a resident. There's no harm in asking, the

worst thing is they tell you they can't do a thing until you're a resident.

Ours

will discuss things but not actually hire until it is a done deal and you're

actually registering the child. So that makes it a bit touchy when arranging

things like a TOD since those arrangements are usually done in the spring.

Best -- Jill

October 18, 2006

In a message dated 10/18/2006 3:40:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cherwolmo@... writes:

Does anyone know if

I can start asking about setting up services before we move, or do we

have to be residents there? I would think that we would have to

actually be living there, or at least have purchased a house.

Cheryl

You can ask. I'd contact the district and make it sound like it's pretty

much a done deal, not like you're only considering the district -- shopping

around for the best one in the area. Let them know you will be bringing along a

fully developed IEP and need to find out what services are available and to

make sure that they are ready to support the child's needs.

Some schools will discuss things with you ahead of time, others will refuse

until you are actually there as a resident. There's no harm in asking, the

worst thing is they tell you they can't do a thing until you're a resident.

Ours

will discuss things but not actually hire until it is a done deal and you're

actually registering the child. So that makes it a bit touchy when arranging

things like a TOD since those arrangements are usually done in the spring.

Best -- Jill

October 18, 2006

In a message dated 10/18/2006 3:40:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cherwolmo@... writes:

Does anyone know if

I can start asking about setting up services before we move, or do we

have to be residents there? I would think that we would have to

actually be living there, or at least have purchased a house.

Cheryl

You can ask. I'd contact the district and make it sound like it's pretty

much a done deal, not like you're only considering the district -- shopping

around for the best one in the area. Let them know you will be bringing along a

fully developed IEP and need to find out what services are available and to

make sure that they are ready to support the child's needs.

Some schools will discuss things with you ahead of time, others will refuse

until you are actually there as a resident. There's no harm in asking, the

worst thing is they tell you they can't do a thing until you're a resident.

Ours

will discuss things but not actually hire until it is a done deal and you're

actually registering the child. So that makes it a bit touchy when arranging

things like a TOD since those arrangements are usually done in the spring.

Best -- Jill

October 18, 2006

Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies. I know for sure that

if Clara was supposed to start Kindy now, she's not ready. Of course,

she could learn a lot by next fall. I still don't know for sure if

I'm going to hold her back, but I think I'm leaning towards it. In so

many states, she wouldn't be starting anyway. It looks like we'll be

moving to another school district in the spring. Does anyone know if

I can start asking about setting up services before we move, or do we

have to be residents there? I would think that we would have to

actually be living there, or at least have purchased a house.

Cheryl

October 18, 2006

We moved to a different *state* just before our son turned 3 and transitioned

from Early Intervention to IEP.

Since we had EI in place long before we moved, the EI people in the old place

contacted EI people in the new place, and (with our permission) forwarded all of

our son's information to them. Within a couple of weeks of the move, we had

appointments with the new EI, so that they could help us transition to IEP. The

transition itself was handled by the district, rather than the local school, and

the district assigned us to the school that he was most likely to attend in

Kindergarten to get started on IEP services.

However, this was LONG before the Internet made communication much easier.

If you are staying in-state, but do not have an IEP, contact your local school

ECE (Exceptional Child Education--a PC of Special Education) office to find out

what they would recommend. Chances are that you can get a name and phone number

through an Internet search, but if not, call the main district number to find

out who you should contact.

If you are moving out-of-state, or if the move is VERY soon, contact the ECE

people of the district you are moving to, and try to set up appointments soon

after your move date. You can't actually *receive* services until you are a

legal resident of the district (rent or own), but you should be able to start

putting things in place.