Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that come with gamma added. - > Hi Gang > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > Kathleen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that come with gamma added. - > Hi Gang > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > Kathleen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Hello All, My son Owain is PDD, Apraxic, with some Sensory Integration issues. At the time of supplementation, he had about 10 words/sounds that he has said on a regular basis (up, fish, Daddy, tree, cereal, cat, vroom, UH-OH, pop-pop-pop for bubbles, Ooh-ooh-Ah-Ah-Ah for Monkey, Sssss for snake, and la-la-la for Elmo). He also uses about 5 signs consistently: more, want, milk, bye-bye and all done. He is 25 months old and 30 pounds. I have recently started giving him some LCP Supplements, starting with 2 Nordic Naturals Omega 3-6-9 Jrs (148mg EPA, 98mg DHA, 36mg GLA= to 1 total 500 mg serving) 1X in the morning, and 1 packet of Coromega (350 mg EPA, 230mg DHA) in the evening. I have been doing this for 2 weeks and have seen some minor improvements, mainly in the area of increased focus and attention, as well as increased sounds/babbling, and some minor imitation. 4 days ago, I increased the supplements to 2 ProEFAs= 1000 total mg serving (270 mg EPA, 180mg DHA, 66mg GLA) once in the morning and 1 packet of Coromega in the evening. In the last 4 days I have seen even more improvements...he has been attempting more sounds, especially animal ones, and has a few new ones under his belt: Moo for Cow, and baaa for Sheep, plus another sign---thank you. He also has been imitating my actions and sounds more than he has ever done, and I've even noticed an increase in his receptive language, with him being able to follow a lot more directions and simon says type games without visual cues. Still I have not heard any actual new words from him yet, but there have been a lot more attempts, slightly more babbling, and sounds and I can see him paying a lot more attention to me when I am speaking (it looks as though he is intensely watching my mouth for the first time to figure out how to say things.) He is also improving with gestures, especially more pointing. So needless to say, I am very pleased so far with the changes. But I am greedy and want even more, as I'm sure you all understand : -) So my question to you all is this---should I carry on for the next two weeks with what I am currently giving him (2 ProEFA's, and 1 packet Coromega) or go ahead and up it to a higher amount, and possibly even add a vitamin E at this point? I know that this is not an exact science, but I would love to have some more specific guidance on the time frame and dosage (how much and when you increased, and at what age/weight) that has worked for you all. I have been doing my homework and reading the past entries, but have not yet found a lot of what would be applicable for my just turned two year old. I understand that it is difficult to overdose on fish oils, but I just want to see if anyone has been on a similar track to our situation to try and prevent so much trial and error on our part, if that would be possible. I'd also like to get some clarification on the recommendations of dosage from ---when you say 2 Omega 3/6/9 is this the Nordic Naturals Jr. or ProEFA? And do you mean 2 actual pills, which would equal 1 serving size of 500 mgs for the Jr/ or 2 pills for the ProEFA with a total serving size of 1000 mg. Or does this mean 2 TOTAL servings, which would be 4 pills & a total of 1000mg for the Omega 3-6-9 Jr, or 4 pills & a 2000 mg. total for the ProEFA? I am just not 100% on this and want to be sure before I continue. Quoting from the below email you () said, " Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-tocophorol twice a day. " Does this mean to take both the dose of 2 Omega 3/6/9's AND the dose of 1 EPA 2X per day, or is it just the EPA twice per day? The " 400 IU alpha-d- >tocophorol twice a day " part was clear to me. Another question is, how slowly should I incorporate the Vitamin E into the equation? How long did everybody just take the Omegas before adding the E? And at 2 years old, what did you all do for your kids that worked the best with the least side-effects. Does it make more sense to ease into it as I am currently doing, or should I just jump right into it and not mess around??? Sorry for such a huge email and all the questions for such a newbie, but I am so very excited that I have found you all, and hope that you can provide us with any much needed and much appreciated guidance. ---Holly >From: " claudia.morris " <claudia.morris@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Re: Safe Levels of fish oil??-- and >Everyone, please >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:08:12 -0000 > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that >come with gamma added. - > > > Hi Gang > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hello All, My son Owain is PDD, Apraxic, with some Sensory Integration issues. At the time of supplementation, he had about 10 words/sounds that he has said on a regular basis (up, fish, Daddy, tree, cereal, cat, vroom, UH-OH, pop-pop-pop for bubbles, Ooh-ooh-Ah-Ah-Ah for Monkey, Sssss for snake, and la-la-la for Elmo). He also uses about 5 signs consistently: more, want, milk, bye-bye and all done. He is 25 months old and 30 pounds. I have recently started giving him some LCP Supplements, starting with 2 Nordic Naturals Omega 3-6-9 Jrs (148mg EPA, 98mg DHA, 36mg GLA= to 1 total 500 mg serving) 1X in the morning, and 1 packet of Coromega (350 mg EPA, 230mg DHA) in the evening. I have been doing this for 2 weeks and have seen some minor improvements, mainly in the area of increased focus and attention, as well as increased sounds/babbling, and some minor imitation. 4 days ago, I increased the supplements to 2 ProEFAs= 1000 total mg serving (270 mg EPA, 180mg DHA, 66mg GLA) once in the morning and 1 packet of Coromega in the evening. In the last 4 days I have seen even more improvements...he has been attempting more sounds, especially animal ones, and has a few new ones under his belt: Moo for Cow, and baaa for Sheep, plus another sign---thank you. He also has been imitating my actions and sounds more than he has ever done, and I've even noticed an increase in his receptive language, with him being able to follow a lot more directions and simon says type games without visual cues. Still I have not heard any actual new words from him yet, but there have been a lot more attempts, slightly more babbling, and sounds and I can see him paying a lot more attention to me when I am speaking (it looks as though he is intensely watching my mouth for the first time to figure out how to say things.) He is also improving with gestures, especially more pointing. So needless to say, I am very pleased so far with the changes. But I am greedy and want even more, as I'm sure you all understand : -) So my question to you all is this---should I carry on for the next two weeks with what I am currently giving him (2 ProEFA's, and 1 packet Coromega) or go ahead and up it to a higher amount, and possibly even add a vitamin E at this point? I know that this is not an exact science, but I would love to have some more specific guidance on the time frame and dosage (how much and when you increased, and at what age/weight) that has worked for you all. I have been doing my homework and reading the past entries, but have not yet found a lot of what would be applicable for my just turned two year old. I understand that it is difficult to overdose on fish oils, but I just want to see if anyone has been on a similar track to our situation to try and prevent so much trial and error on our part, if that would be possible. I'd also like to get some clarification on the recommendations of dosage from ---when you say 2 Omega 3/6/9 is this the Nordic Naturals Jr. or ProEFA? And do you mean 2 actual pills, which would equal 1 serving size of 500 mgs for the Jr/ or 2 pills for the ProEFA with a total serving size of 1000 mg. Or does this mean 2 TOTAL servings, which would be 4 pills & a total of 1000mg for the Omega 3-6-9 Jr, or 4 pills & a 2000 mg. total for the ProEFA? I am just not 100% on this and want to be sure before I continue. Quoting from the below email you () said, " Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-tocophorol twice a day. " Does this mean to take both the dose of 2 Omega 3/6/9's AND the dose of 1 EPA 2X per day, or is it just the EPA twice per day? The " 400 IU alpha-d- >tocophorol twice a day " part was clear to me. Another question is, how slowly should I incorporate the Vitamin E into the equation? How long did everybody just take the Omegas before adding the E? And at 2 years old, what did you all do for your kids that worked the best with the least side-effects. Does it make more sense to ease into it as I am currently doing, or should I just jump right into it and not mess around??? Sorry for such a huge email and all the questions for such a newbie, but I am so very excited that I have found you all, and hope that you can provide us with any much needed and much appreciated guidance. ---Holly >From: " claudia.morris " <claudia.morris@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Re: Safe Levels of fish oil??-- and >Everyone, please >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:08:12 -0000 > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that >come with gamma added. - > > > Hi Gang > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in these fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted in the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as fat. > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that > >come with gamma added. - > > > > > Hi Gang > > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces > friends module. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. No supplement is completely without risks, but fish oils are generally okay even at levels much higher than you are already using. I don't agree about the liver function tests, and have never had a pediatrician or any other doctor recommend one for my daughter - even when she was on 10 adult caps per day (at 3 years of age). The RDAs for many vitamins are the amounts you need to get to prevent deficiency - like the 60 mg recommended of C is to prevent scurvy - not for optimal health and certainly not the upper tolerable limit for the vitamins (minerals are different). Many of us here are using lots of fish oils and lots of vitamin E. If you don't feel comfortable, I encourage you to do your own research, talk to your doctor and stick around on the board to get a better idea of what doses parents are using. I just wanted to chime in in case no one else responded, but hopefully someone with a medical background can ease your fears too. Kerri > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in these > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted in > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as > fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in these fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted in the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as fat. > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that > >come with gamma added. - > > > > > Hi Gang > > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces > friends module. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. No supplement is completely without risks, but fish oils are generally okay even at levels much higher than you are already using. I don't agree about the liver function tests, and have never had a pediatrician or any other doctor recommend one for my daughter - even when she was on 10 adult caps per day (at 3 years of age). The RDAs for many vitamins are the amounts you need to get to prevent deficiency - like the 60 mg recommended of C is to prevent scurvy - not for optimal health and certainly not the upper tolerable limit for the vitamins (minerals are different). Many of us here are using lots of fish oils and lots of vitamin E. If you don't feel comfortable, I encourage you to do your own research, talk to your doctor and stick around on the board to get a better idea of what doses parents are using. I just wanted to chime in in case no one else responded, but hopefully someone with a medical background can ease your fears too. Kerri > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in these > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted in > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as > fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry when it comes to your child's liver! > > > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in > these > > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted > in > > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > fat. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 carlsoncarissa There was no mention of where you got your information. Perhaps you could elaborate on who told you this, where you read it, etc. Tina > > > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in > these > > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted > in > > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > fat. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the differences in the formulas of the oils? I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks " http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites http://efaeducation.nih.gov/ And favorite quotes: " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. " Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02114, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ 4632570 & dopt=Abstract http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html And have you read this as a future MD? " Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know " " In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely as 'complementary medicines'. Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice. Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most individuals. " http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555 Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/ And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your step child's diet...we'll wait. (but not stop using our fish oils) ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Can you elaborate for us exactly how much Vitamin E you believe is unsafe and a reputable site or preferrably study that specifically supports this (not one that says too much may be harmful but rather one that states a specific amount)? We have a doctor parent on this site and she has stated that no toxic effects are seen even with the high doses many of us are using. I have in my mind that she said 1200 IUs per day is definitely okay (that would be I think 80 times the RDA for children), but that could be off so don't quote me. Also, if you can site some specific recommendations on what is too much fish oil that would be great too. The reason I'm taking issue with your statements is because they are a little vague and totally unsupported thus far. If you could've seen how my daughter responded to supplements and diet you might understand a little better. Most of us have heard your arguments from family or friends, have done our own research, and have made our own decisions about supplements. If I had listened to people like you my daughter would probably still be WAY WAY behind and going to therapy 4 times per week. Supplements completely cured my daughter's apraxia (plus sensory problems, and fine motor and self- help delays) in less than one year. Her progress dumbfounded each one of her therapists and teachers, and I've come to learn that she was one of the small minority (like only 1-2%) of kids to actually leave the special ed system because all of her issues are resolved. My fear is that statements like yours could scare parents away from trying these sometimes very helpful and usually very safe things. So please if you do have specific evidence of the amounts of fish oil or vitamin E being toxic please do post about it. None of us here like to put our children's health at risk. This is NOT directed at you specifically, but if there's one thing that I've really come to dislike, it's the misinformation that medical professionals can sometimes spread around without really knowing what they're talking about. Maybe if there was more focus on too much of a bad thing (ie mercury, trans fats, pesticides etc) and less speculation about what is too much of a good thing... Kerri > > I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we > are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish > oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests > done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents > on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite > on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually > cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet > is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of > these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more > absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities > if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I > believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more > beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not > to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry > when it comes to your child's liver! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 We know that we need to be careful. Don't try and scare us from supplementing though. My son is 13 has some severe learning disabilities and the public school as not been helpful at all. They just want to chalk if off and force him to live on disability social security when he is 18. He isn't mentally retarded, but he has alot of challenge that impede his learning. We have tried waiting for speech and language therapy to cure him, instead they reduce his services and want to throw him to a class that won't help him succeed. We started him on fish oil when he was 11 1/2 and finally he attempted to learn to read. We recently added Vitamin E in September and when the school tested him he had gained 3 years of receptive language in 5 months. Of course it isn't all the supplements, because we have privately hired a tutor to work with him 16 to 20 hours a month doing MoodBell and auditory processing skills. He continues to make gain because we are doing everything that seems to be working. He goes to tutoring, takes supplements and he has an extra reading period at school. Without the supplements I don't know if we would have made this much gain. My son has had an IEP for 10 years and the schools had him reading like a 1st grader in 7th grade and he had the expressive language of a 6 year old. He also was receptive language of an almost 7 year old last school year. Now he is like a 10 year in receptive language. He is still way behind in expressive. He is like a 7 year old. My pediatrician refuses to check my childs vitamin and supplement levels because it isn't medically necessary. She does write a note to my flexible spendings saying that he needs the supplements and tutoring because of his PDDNOS and Language learning disabilities. So I can use medical money or write the expense off on my taxes. Sorry this is so long. It is frustrating trying to get the medical doctors to do everything we need done to get our kids the services they need to succeed in life. And the public schools are only for the gifted and self motivated. I have had 2 kids suffering from poor educational systems. They don't want to spend the money to educate the kids with Language learning disabilities. Lorraine -------------- Original message -------------- From: " carlsoncarissa " <carlsoncarissa@...> I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry when it comes to your child's liver! > > > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in > these > > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted > in > > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > fat. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Hello, after reading this future Dr. comments I just have one comment: It is because of professionals like this that are afraid to think outside of a box that our kids are strugling. Thank God for Doctors that are willing to learn more and dedicate the due research to these " alternative " treatments. Thanks to this group's hard work and never ending search for answers I can hear my son's laughter and engage in a conversation with him. A lot of credit shoud be given to his Speech Therapist, but the Supplements for sure, are playing a major role on his recovery. PS: I would never, ever endanger my son's health with treatments that could possibly harm him, I love him too much for this! Deborah kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote: I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the differences in the formulas of the oils? I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks " http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites http://efaeducation.nih.gov/ And favorite quotes: " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. " Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02114, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ 4632570 & dopt=Abstract http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html And have you read this as a future MD? " Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know " " In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely as 'complementary medicines'. Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice. Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most individuals. " http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555 Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/ And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your step child's diet...we'll wait. (but not stop using our fish oils) ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry when it comes to your child's liver! > > > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in > these > > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted > in > > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > fat. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 carlsoncarissa There was no mention of where you got your information. Perhaps you could elaborate on who told you this, where you read it, etc. Tina > > > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in > these > > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted > in > > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > fat. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the differences in the formulas of the oils? I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks " http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites http://efaeducation.nih.gov/ And favorite quotes: " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. " Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02114, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ 4632570 & dopt=Abstract http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html And have you read this as a future MD? " Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know " " In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely as 'complementary medicines'. Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice. Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most individuals. " http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555 Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/ And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your step child's diet...we'll wait. (but not stop using our fish oils) ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Can you elaborate for us exactly how much Vitamin E you believe is unsafe and a reputable site or preferrably study that specifically supports this (not one that says too much may be harmful but rather one that states a specific amount)? We have a doctor parent on this site and she has stated that no toxic effects are seen even with the high doses many of us are using. I have in my mind that she said 1200 IUs per day is definitely okay (that would be I think 80 times the RDA for children), but that could be off so don't quote me. Also, if you can site some specific recommendations on what is too much fish oil that would be great too. The reason I'm taking issue with your statements is because they are a little vague and totally unsupported thus far. If you could've seen how my daughter responded to supplements and diet you might understand a little better. Most of us have heard your arguments from family or friends, have done our own research, and have made our own decisions about supplements. If I had listened to people like you my daughter would probably still be WAY WAY behind and going to therapy 4 times per week. Supplements completely cured my daughter's apraxia (plus sensory problems, and fine motor and self- help delays) in less than one year. Her progress dumbfounded each one of her therapists and teachers, and I've come to learn that she was one of the small minority (like only 1-2%) of kids to actually leave the special ed system because all of her issues are resolved. My fear is that statements like yours could scare parents away from trying these sometimes very helpful and usually very safe things. So please if you do have specific evidence of the amounts of fish oil or vitamin E being toxic please do post about it. None of us here like to put our children's health at risk. This is NOT directed at you specifically, but if there's one thing that I've really come to dislike, it's the misinformation that medical professionals can sometimes spread around without really knowing what they're talking about. Maybe if there was more focus on too much of a bad thing (ie mercury, trans fats, pesticides etc) and less speculation about what is too much of a good thing... Kerri > > I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we > are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish > oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests > done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents > on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite > on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually > cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet > is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of > these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more > absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities > if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I > believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more > beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not > to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry > when it comes to your child's liver! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Therefore, in excess of > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as > fat. What medical textbook did you get that from? Also, vitamin K is not stored in any appreciable amount in the body, and it is quite safe to give K2 and K3 as a supplement it lowers interluekin 6 and TNF alpha. > > > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for > > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > > > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- > > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a > few > > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E > > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, > > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that > > >come with gamma added. - > > > > > > > Hi Gang > > > > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the > end of > > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live > Spaces > > friends module. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? > href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? > wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 We know that we need to be careful. Don't try and scare us from supplementing though. My son is 13 has some severe learning disabilities and the public school as not been helpful at all. They just want to chalk if off and force him to live on disability social security when he is 18. He isn't mentally retarded, but he has alot of challenge that impede his learning. We have tried waiting for speech and language therapy to cure him, instead they reduce his services and want to throw him to a class that won't help him succeed. We started him on fish oil when he was 11 1/2 and finally he attempted to learn to read. We recently added Vitamin E in September and when the school tested him he had gained 3 years of receptive language in 5 months. Of course it isn't all the supplements, because we have privately hired a tutor to work with him 16 to 20 hours a month doing MoodBell and auditory processing skills. He continues to make gain because we are doing everything that seems to be working. He goes to tutoring, takes supplements and he has an extra reading period at school. Without the supplements I don't know if we would have made this much gain. My son has had an IEP for 10 years and the schools had him reading like a 1st grader in 7th grade and he had the expressive language of a 6 year old. He also was receptive language of an almost 7 year old last school year. Now he is like a 10 year in receptive language. He is still way behind in expressive. He is like a 7 year old. My pediatrician refuses to check my childs vitamin and supplement levels because it isn't medically necessary. She does write a note to my flexible spendings saying that he needs the supplements and tutoring because of his PDDNOS and Language learning disabilities. So I can use medical money or write the expense off on my taxes. Sorry this is so long. It is frustrating trying to get the medical doctors to do everything we need done to get our kids the services they need to succeed in life. And the public schools are only for the gifted and self motivated. I have had 2 kids suffering from poor educational systems. They don't want to spend the money to educate the kids with Language learning disabilities. Lorraine -------------- Original message -------------- From: " carlsoncarissa " <carlsoncarissa@...> I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry when it comes to your child's liver! > > > > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too > > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all > > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests > > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in > these > > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted > in > > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > fat. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Hello, after reading this future Dr. comments I just have one comment: It is because of professionals like this that are afraid to think outside of a box that our kids are strugling. Thank God for Doctors that are willing to learn more and dedicate the due research to these " alternative " treatments. Thanks to this group's hard work and never ending search for answers I can hear my son's laughter and engage in a conversation with him. A lot of credit shoud be given to his Speech Therapist, but the Supplements for sure, are playing a major role on his recovery. PS: I would never, ever endanger my son's health with treatments that could possibly harm him, I love him too much for this! Deborah kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote: I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the differences in the formulas of the oils? I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks " http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites http://efaeducation.nih.gov/ And favorite quotes: " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. " Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02114, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ 4632570 & dopt=Abstract http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html And have you read this as a future MD? " Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know " " In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely as 'complementary medicines'. Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice. Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most individuals. " http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555 Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/ And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your step child's diet...we'll wait. (but not stop using our fish oils) ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Therefore, in excess of > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as > fat. What medical textbook did you get that from? Also, vitamin K is not stored in any appreciable amount in the body, and it is quite safe to give K2 and K3 as a supplement it lowers interluekin 6 and TNF alpha. > > > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for > > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > > > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- > > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a > few > > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E > > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow, > > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that > > >come with gamma added. - > > > > > > > Hi Gang > > > > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the > end of > > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live > Spaces > > friends module. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? > href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? > wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 > > > > > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for > > > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > > > > > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- > > > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a > > few > > > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term > vit E > > > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from > Jarrow, > > > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements > that > > > >come with gamma added. - > > > > > > > > > Hi Gang > > > > > > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the > > end of > > > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live > > Spaces > > > friends module. > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? > > href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? > > wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 > I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages > of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish > which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made > from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group - do > not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the > differences in the formulas of the oils? > > I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any > old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their > families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as > that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect > and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving > our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish > Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks " > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html > > Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites > http://efaeducation.nih.gov/ > > And favorite quotes: > > " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their > consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery > disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source > of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands > examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and > may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. " > Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology, > Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, > Mass 02114, USA. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ > 4632570 & dopt=Abstract > http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html > > And have you read this as a future MD? > " Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know " > > " In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical > interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider > the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the > positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should > be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a > recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many > other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely > as 'complementary medicines'. > > Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce > cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus > DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be > taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice. > Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for > increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual > dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most > individuals. " > http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555 > > Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of > the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils > not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the > liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which > isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't > take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it > wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is > being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared > because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover > in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just > sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod > liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs > blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular > blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who > eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation? > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/ > > And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your step child's diet...we'll wait. > (but not stop using our fish oils) > > ===== > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 , I hope you don't think I was posting, > Therefore, in excess of > > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > > fat. I responded to the fact that there was no truth to that statement at all, I quoted it, and wanted to know what medical textbook it was taken from, as it is a load of hogwash. I mentioned the fact about vitamin K, not even being in fish oil to begin with. A & D are not in proefa, and the upper limits of D as such at this time can go to 2000 IU daily. But not a dose I would dabble with personally for different reasons. I agree with you whole heartedly. C > > > True one does need to be careful of " some of the fish oil " ...ie cod > liver oil does have vit A in it...and too much A and D can lead to > adverse effects that are well documented. This is not an issue for > those using the typical apraxia cocktail of pro-EFA (omega 3/6/9) > and pro-EPA. > > It is very difficult to overdose on fish oil. What is not used is > excreted, and it is NOT associated with liver problems. It can give > you diarrhea, and it can also affect platelet function at higher > doses...just like aspirin...and in that sense can increase risk of > bleeding. However the impact on the platelets (making them less > sticky)...is part of the benefits to heart health. > > Fear of fish oil is totally crazy. Fear of Mcs...now that > makes sense to me. Trans fats ARE poison to our bodies, yet > Americans consume them by the kilo. - > > > Therefore, in excess of > > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body > as > > > fat. > > > > What medical textbook did you get that from? Also, vitamin K is > not > > stored in any appreciable amount in the body, and it is quite safe > to > > give K2 and K3 as a supplement it lowers interluekin 6 and TNF > alpha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety > for > > > > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU). > > > > > > > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d- > > > > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results > after a > > > few > > > > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long- term > > vit E > > > > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from > > Jarrow, > > > > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements > > that > > > > >come with gamma added. - > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in > the > > > end of > > > > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathleen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live > > > Spaces > > > > friends module. > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? > > > href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? > > > wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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