Re: Safe Levels of fish oil??-- and Everyone, please

[Guest guest]

Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few

weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E

supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow,

but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that

come with gamma added. -

> Hi Gang

>

> I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of

> August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

>

> How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

>

>

> Kathleen

>

[Guest guest]

Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few

weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E

supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow,

but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that

come with gamma added. -

> Hi Gang

>

> I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of

> August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

>

> How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

>

>

> Kathleen

>

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

My son Owain is PDD, Apraxic, with some Sensory Integration issues. At the

time of supplementation, he had about 10 words/sounds that he has said on a

regular basis (up, fish, Daddy, tree, cereal, cat, vroom, UH-OH, pop-pop-pop

for bubbles, Ooh-ooh-Ah-Ah-Ah for Monkey, Sssss for snake, and la-la-la for

Elmo). He also uses about 5 signs consistently: more, want, milk, bye-bye

and all done. He is 25 months old and 30 pounds.

I have recently started giving him some LCP Supplements, starting with 2

Nordic Naturals Omega 3-6-9 Jrs (148mg EPA, 98mg DHA, 36mg GLA= to 1 total

500 mg serving) 1X in the morning, and 1 packet of Coromega (350 mg EPA,

230mg DHA) in the evening. I have been doing this for 2 weeks and have seen

some minor improvements, mainly in the area of increased focus and

attention, as well as increased sounds/babbling, and some minor imitation.

4 days ago, I increased the supplements to 2 ProEFAs= 1000 total mg serving

(270 mg EPA, 180mg DHA, 66mg GLA) once in the morning and 1 packet of

Coromega in the evening. In the last 4 days I have seen even more

improvements...he has been attempting more sounds, especially animal ones,

and has a few new ones under his belt: Moo for Cow, and baaa for Sheep, plus

another sign---thank you. He also has been imitating my actions and sounds

more than he has ever done, and I've even noticed an increase in his

receptive language, with him being able to follow a lot more directions and

simon says type games without visual cues. Still I have not heard any

actual new words from him yet, but there have been a lot more attempts,

slightly more babbling, and sounds and I can see him paying a lot more

attention to me when I am speaking (it looks as though he is intensely

watching my mouth for the first time to figure out how to say things.) He

is also improving with gestures, especially more pointing.

So needless to say, I am very pleased so far with the changes. But I am

greedy and want even more, as I'm sure you all understand : -) So my

question to you all is this---should I carry on for the next two weeks with

what I am currently giving him (2 ProEFA's, and 1 packet Coromega) or go

ahead and up it to a higher amount, and possibly even add a vitamin E at

this point? I know that this is not an exact science, but I would love to

have some more specific guidance on the time frame and dosage (how much and

when you increased, and at what age/weight) that has worked for you all. I

have been doing my homework and reading the past entries, but have not yet

found a lot of what would be applicable for my just turned two year old.

I understand that it is difficult to overdose on fish oils, but I just want

to see if anyone has been on a similar track to our situation to try and

prevent so much trial and error on our part, if that would be possible. I'd

also like to get some clarification on the recommendations of dosage from

---when you say 2 Omega 3/6/9 is this the Nordic Naturals Jr. or

ProEFA? And do you mean 2 actual pills, which would equal 1 serving size of

500 mgs for the Jr/ or 2 pills for the ProEFA with a total serving size of

1000 mg. Or does this mean 2 TOTAL servings, which would be 4 pills & a

total of 1000mg for the Omega 3-6-9 Jr, or 4 pills & a 2000 mg. total for

the ProEFA? I am just not 100% on this and want to be sure before I

continue.

Quoting from the below email you () said, " Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA

twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-tocophorol twice a day. " Does this mean

to take both the dose of 2 Omega 3/6/9's AND the dose of 1 EPA 2X per day,

or is it just the EPA twice per day? The " 400 IU alpha-d-

>tocophorol twice a day " part was clear to me.

Another question is, how slowly should I incorporate the Vitamin E into the

equation? How long did everybody just take the Omegas before adding the E?

And at 2 years old, what did you all do for your kids that worked the best

with the least side-effects. Does it make more sense to ease into it as I

am currently doing, or should I just jump right into it and not mess

around???

Sorry for such a huge email and all the questions for such a newbie, but I

am so very excited that I have found you all, and hope that you can provide

us with any much needed and much appreciated guidance.

---Holly

>From: " claudia.morris " <claudia.morris@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: Safe Levels of fish oil??-- and

>Everyone, please

>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:08:12 -0000

>

>

>

>Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

>vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

>

>Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

>tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few

>weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E

>supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow,

>but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that

>come with gamma added. -

>

> > Hi Gang

> >

> > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of

> > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> >

> >

> > Kathleen

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces

friends module.

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[Guest guest]

Hello All,

My son Owain is PDD, Apraxic, with some Sensory Integration issues. At the

time of supplementation, he had about 10 words/sounds that he has said on a

regular basis (up, fish, Daddy, tree, cereal, cat, vroom, UH-OH, pop-pop-pop

for bubbles, Ooh-ooh-Ah-Ah-Ah for Monkey, Sssss for snake, and la-la-la for

Elmo). He also uses about 5 signs consistently: more, want, milk, bye-bye

and all done. He is 25 months old and 30 pounds.

I have recently started giving him some LCP Supplements, starting with 2

Nordic Naturals Omega 3-6-9 Jrs (148mg EPA, 98mg DHA, 36mg GLA= to 1 total

500 mg serving) 1X in the morning, and 1 packet of Coromega (350 mg EPA,

230mg DHA) in the evening. I have been doing this for 2 weeks and have seen

some minor improvements, mainly in the area of increased focus and

attention, as well as increased sounds/babbling, and some minor imitation.

4 days ago, I increased the supplements to 2 ProEFAs= 1000 total mg serving

(270 mg EPA, 180mg DHA, 66mg GLA) once in the morning and 1 packet of

Coromega in the evening. In the last 4 days I have seen even more

improvements...he has been attempting more sounds, especially animal ones,

and has a few new ones under his belt: Moo for Cow, and baaa for Sheep, plus

another sign---thank you. He also has been imitating my actions and sounds

more than he has ever done, and I've even noticed an increase in his

receptive language, with him being able to follow a lot more directions and

simon says type games without visual cues. Still I have not heard any

actual new words from him yet, but there have been a lot more attempts,

slightly more babbling, and sounds and I can see him paying a lot more

attention to me when I am speaking (it looks as though he is intensely

watching my mouth for the first time to figure out how to say things.) He

is also improving with gestures, especially more pointing.

So needless to say, I am very pleased so far with the changes. But I am

greedy and want even more, as I'm sure you all understand : -) So my

question to you all is this---should I carry on for the next two weeks with

what I am currently giving him (2 ProEFA's, and 1 packet Coromega) or go

ahead and up it to a higher amount, and possibly even add a vitamin E at

this point? I know that this is not an exact science, but I would love to

have some more specific guidance on the time frame and dosage (how much and

when you increased, and at what age/weight) that has worked for you all. I

have been doing my homework and reading the past entries, but have not yet

found a lot of what would be applicable for my just turned two year old.

I understand that it is difficult to overdose on fish oils, but I just want

to see if anyone has been on a similar track to our situation to try and

prevent so much trial and error on our part, if that would be possible. I'd

also like to get some clarification on the recommendations of dosage from

---when you say 2 Omega 3/6/9 is this the Nordic Naturals Jr. or

ProEFA? And do you mean 2 actual pills, which would equal 1 serving size of

500 mgs for the Jr/ or 2 pills for the ProEFA with a total serving size of

1000 mg. Or does this mean 2 TOTAL servings, which would be 4 pills & a

total of 1000mg for the Omega 3-6-9 Jr, or 4 pills & a 2000 mg. total for

the ProEFA? I am just not 100% on this and want to be sure before I

continue.

Quoting from the below email you () said, " Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA

twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-tocophorol twice a day. " Does this mean

to take both the dose of 2 Omega 3/6/9's AND the dose of 1 EPA 2X per day,

or is it just the EPA twice per day? The " 400 IU alpha-d-

>tocophorol twice a day " part was clear to me.

Another question is, how slowly should I incorporate the Vitamin E into the

equation? How long did everybody just take the Omegas before adding the E?

And at 2 years old, what did you all do for your kids that worked the best

with the least side-effects. Does it make more sense to ease into it as I

am currently doing, or should I just jump right into it and not mess

around???

Sorry for such a huge email and all the questions for such a newbie, but I

am so very excited that I have found you all, and hope that you can provide

us with any much needed and much appreciated guidance.

---Holly

>From: " claudia.morris " <claudia.morris@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: Safe Levels of fish oil??-- and

>Everyone, please

>Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:08:12 -0000

>

>

>

>Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

>vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

>

>Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

>tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a few

>weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E

>supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow,

>but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that

>come with gamma added. -

>

> > Hi Gang

> >

> > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the end of

> > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> >

> >

> > Kathleen

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in these

fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted in

the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as

fat.

> >

> >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

> >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

> >

> >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

> >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a

few

> >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E

> >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow,

> >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that

> >come with gamma added. -

> >

> > > Hi Gang

> > >

> > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the

end of

> > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> > >

> > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> > >

> > >

> > > Kathleen

> > >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live

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> friends module.

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wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. No supplement is

completely without risks, but fish oils are generally okay even at

levels much higher than you are already using. I don't agree about

the liver function tests, and have never had a pediatrician or any

other doctor recommend one for my daughter - even when she was on 10

adult caps per day (at 3 years of age). The RDAs for many vitamins

are the amounts you need to get to prevent deficiency - like the 60

mg recommended of C is to prevent scurvy - not for optimal health

and certainly not the upper tolerable limit for the vitamins

(minerals are different).

Many of us here are using lots of fish oils and lots of vitamin E.

If you don't feel comfortable, I encourage you to do your own

research, talk to your doctor and stick around on the board to get a

better idea of what doses parents are using.

I just wanted to chime in in case no one else responded, but

hopefully someone with a medical background can ease your fears too.

Kerri

>

> Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

these

> fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

in

> the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

as

> fat.

[Guest guest]

Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in these

fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted in

the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as

fat.

> >

> >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

> >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

> >

> >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

> >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a

few

> >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term vit E

> >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from Jarrow,

> >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements that

> >come with gamma added. -

> >

> > > Hi Gang

> > >

> > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the

end of

> > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> > >

> > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> > >

> > >

> > > Kathleen

> > >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live

Spaces

> friends module.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?

href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?

wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. No supplement is

completely without risks, but fish oils are generally okay even at

levels much higher than you are already using. I don't agree about

the liver function tests, and have never had a pediatrician or any

other doctor recommend one for my daughter - even when she was on 10

adult caps per day (at 3 years of age). The RDAs for many vitamins

are the amounts you need to get to prevent deficiency - like the 60

mg recommended of C is to prevent scurvy - not for optimal health

and certainly not the upper tolerable limit for the vitamins

(minerals are different).

Many of us here are using lots of fish oils and lots of vitamin E.

If you don't feel comfortable, I encourage you to do your own

research, talk to your doctor and stick around on the board to get a

better idea of what doses parents are using.

I just wanted to chime in in case no one else responded, but

hopefully someone with a medical background can ease your fears too.

Kerri

>

> Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

these

> fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

in

> the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

as

> fat.

[Guest guest]

I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we

are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish

oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests

done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents

on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite

on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually

cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet

is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of

these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more

absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities

if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I

believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more

beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not

to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry

when it comes to your child's liver!

> >

> > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

> these

> > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

> in

> > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

> as

> > fat.

>

[Guest guest]

carlsoncarissa

There was no mention of where you got your information. Perhaps you

could elaborate on who told you this, where you read it, etc.

Tina

> >

> > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

> these

> > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

> in

> > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

> as

> > fat.

>

[Guest guest]

I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages

of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish

which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made

from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do

not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the

differences in the formulas of the oils?

I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any

old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their

families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as

that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect

and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving

our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish

Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks "

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html

Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites

http://efaeducation.nih.gov/

And favorite quotes:

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html

And have you read this as a future MD?

" Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know "

" In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical

interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider

the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the

positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should

be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a

recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many

other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely

as 'complementary medicines'.

Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce

cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus

DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be

taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice.

Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for

increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual

dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most

individuals. "

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555

Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of

the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils

not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the

liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which

isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't

take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it

wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is

being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared

because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover

in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just

sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod

liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs

blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular

blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who

eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/

And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your

step child's diet...we'll wait.

(but not stop using our fish oils)

=====

[Guest guest]

Can you elaborate for us exactly how much Vitamin E you believe is

unsafe and a reputable site or preferrably study that specifically

supports this (not one that says too much may be harmful but rather

one that states a specific amount)? We have a doctor parent on this

site and she has stated that no toxic effects are seen even with the

high doses many of us are using. I have in my mind that she said

1200 IUs per day is definitely okay (that would be I think 80 times

the RDA for children), but that could be off so don't quote me.

Also, if you can site some specific recommendations on what is too

much fish oil that would be great too.

The reason I'm taking issue with your statements is because they are

a little vague and totally unsupported thus far. If you could've

seen how my daughter responded to supplements and diet you might

understand a little better. Most of us have heard your arguments

from family or friends, have done our own research, and have made

our own decisions about supplements. If I had listened to people

like you my daughter would probably still be WAY WAY behind and

going to therapy 4 times per week. Supplements completely cured my

daughter's apraxia (plus sensory problems, and fine motor and self-

help delays) in less than one year. Her progress dumbfounded each

one of her therapists and teachers, and I've come to learn that she

was one of the small minority (like only 1-2%) of kids to actually

leave the special ed system because all of her issues are resolved.

My fear is that statements like yours could scare parents away from

trying these sometimes very helpful and usually very safe things.

So please if you do have specific evidence of the amounts of fish

oil or vitamin E being toxic please do post about it. None of us

here like to put our children's health at risk.

This is NOT directed at you specifically, but if there's one thing

that I've really come to dislike, it's the misinformation that

medical professionals can sometimes spread around without really

knowing what they're talking about. Maybe if there was more focus

on too much of a bad thing (ie mercury, trans fats, pesticides etc)

and less speculation about what is too much of a good thing...

Kerri

>

> I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and

we

> are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a

fish

> oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests

> done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other

parents

> on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a

bite

> on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually

> cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's

diet

> is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's

of

> these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more

> absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific

toxicities

> if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I

> believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is

more

> beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone

not

> to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than

sorry

> when it comes to your child's liver!

>

[Guest guest]

We know that we need to be careful. Don't try and scare us from supplementing

though.

My son is 13 has some severe learning disabilities and the public school as not

been helpful at

all. They just want to chalk if off and force him to live on disability social

security when he

is 18. He isn't mentally retarded, but he has alot of challenge that impede his

learning.

We have tried waiting for speech and language therapy to cure him, instead they

reduce

his services and want to throw him to a class that won't help him succeed.

We started him on fish oil when he was 11 1/2 and finally he attempted to learn

to read. We

recently added Vitamin E in September and when the school tested him he had

gained 3 years of

receptive language in 5 months. Of course it isn't all the supplements, because

we have privately hired

a tutor to work with him 16 to 20 hours a month doing MoodBell and auditory

processing skills. He continues to make gain because we are doing everything

that seems to be working. He goes to tutoring, takes supplements and he has an

extra reading period at school. Without the supplements I don't know if we

would have made this much gain. My son has had an IEP for 10 years and the

schools had him reading like a 1st grader in 7th grade and he had the expressive

language of a 6 year old. He also was receptive language of an almost 7 year

old last school year. Now he is like a 10 year in receptive language. He is

still way behind in expressive. He is like a 7 year old.

My pediatrician refuses to check my childs vitamin and supplement levels because

it isn't medically necessary. She does write a note to my flexible spendings

saying that he needs the supplements and tutoring because of his PDDNOS and

Language learning disabilities. So I can use medical money or write the expense

off on my taxes.

Sorry this is so long. It is frustrating trying to get the medical doctors to do

everything we need done to get our kids the services they need to succeed in

life. And the public schools are only for the gifted and self motivated. I

have had 2 kids suffering from poor educational systems. They don't want to

spend the money to educate the kids with Language learning disabilities.

Lorraine

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " carlsoncarissa " <carlsoncarissa@...>

I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we

are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish

oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests

done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents

on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite

on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually

cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet

is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of

these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more

absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities

if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I

believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more

beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not

to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry

when it comes to your child's liver!

> >

> > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

> these

> > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

> in

> > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

> as

> > fat.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello, after reading this future Dr. comments I just have one comment: It is

because of professionals like this that are afraid to think outside of a box

that our kids are strugling.

Thank God for Doctors that are willing to learn more and dedicate the due

research to these " alternative " treatments. Thanks to this group's hard work

and never ending search for answers I can hear my son's laughter and engage in a

conversation with him. A lot of credit shoud be given to his Speech Therapist,

but the Supplements for sure, are playing a major role on his recovery. PS: I

would never, ever endanger my son's health with treatments that could possibly

harm him, I love him too much for this!

Deborah

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages

of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish

which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made

from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do

not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the

differences in the formulas of the oils?

I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any

old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their

families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as

that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect

and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving

our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish

Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks "

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html

Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites

http://efaeducation.nih.gov/

And favorite quotes:

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html

And have you read this as a future MD?

" Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know "

" In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical

interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider

the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the

positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should

be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a

recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many

other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely

as 'complementary medicines'.

Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce

cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus

DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be

taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice.

Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for

increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual

dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most

individuals. "

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555

Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of

the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils

not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the

liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which

isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't

take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it

wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is

being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared

because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover

in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just

sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod

liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs

blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular

blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who

eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/

And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your

step child's diet...we'll wait.

(but not stop using our fish oils)

=====

[Guest guest]

I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we

are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish

oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests

done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents

on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite

on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually

cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet

is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of

these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more

absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities

if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I

believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more

beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not

to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry

when it comes to your child's liver!

> >

> > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

> these

> > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

> in

> > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

> as

> > fat.

>

[Guest guest]

carlsoncarissa

There was no mention of where you got your information. Perhaps you

could elaborate on who told you this, where you read it, etc.

Tina

> >

> > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

> these

> > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

> in

> > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

> as

> > fat.

>

[Guest guest]

I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages

of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish

which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made

from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do

not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the

differences in the formulas of the oils?

I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any

old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their

families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as

that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect

and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving

our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish

Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks "

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html

Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites

http://efaeducation.nih.gov/

And favorite quotes:

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html

And have you read this as a future MD?

" Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know "

" In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical

interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider

the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the

positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should

be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a

recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many

other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely

as 'complementary medicines'.

Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce

cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus

DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be

taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice.

Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for

increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual

dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most

individuals. "

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555

Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of

the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils

not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the

liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which

isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't

take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it

wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is

being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared

because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover

in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just

sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod

liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs

blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular

blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who

eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/

And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your

step child's diet...we'll wait.

(but not stop using our fish oils)

=====

[Guest guest]

Can you elaborate for us exactly how much Vitamin E you believe is

unsafe and a reputable site or preferrably study that specifically

supports this (not one that says too much may be harmful but rather

one that states a specific amount)? We have a doctor parent on this

site and she has stated that no toxic effects are seen even with the

high doses many of us are using. I have in my mind that she said

1200 IUs per day is definitely okay (that would be I think 80 times

the RDA for children), but that could be off so don't quote me.

Also, if you can site some specific recommendations on what is too

much fish oil that would be great too.

The reason I'm taking issue with your statements is because they are

a little vague and totally unsupported thus far. If you could've

seen how my daughter responded to supplements and diet you might

understand a little better. Most of us have heard your arguments

from family or friends, have done our own research, and have made

our own decisions about supplements. If I had listened to people

like you my daughter would probably still be WAY WAY behind and

going to therapy 4 times per week. Supplements completely cured my

daughter's apraxia (plus sensory problems, and fine motor and self-

help delays) in less than one year. Her progress dumbfounded each

one of her therapists and teachers, and I've come to learn that she

was one of the small minority (like only 1-2%) of kids to actually

leave the special ed system because all of her issues are resolved.

My fear is that statements like yours could scare parents away from

trying these sometimes very helpful and usually very safe things.

So please if you do have specific evidence of the amounts of fish

oil or vitamin E being toxic please do post about it. None of us

here like to put our children's health at risk.

This is NOT directed at you specifically, but if there's one thing

that I've really come to dislike, it's the misinformation that

medical professionals can sometimes spread around without really

knowing what they're talking about. Maybe if there was more focus

on too much of a bad thing (ie mercury, trans fats, pesticides etc)

and less speculation about what is too much of a good thing...

Kerri

>

> I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and

we

> are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a

fish

> oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests

> done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other

parents

> on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a

bite

> on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually

> cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's

diet

> is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's

of

> these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more

> absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific

toxicities

> if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I

> believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is

more

> beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone

not

> to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than

sorry

> when it comes to your child's liver!

>

[Guest guest]

Therefore, in excess of

> recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as

> fat.

What medical textbook did you get that from? Also, vitamin K is not

stored in any appreciable amount in the body, and it is quite safe to

give K2 and K3 as a supplement it lowers interluekin 6 and TNF alpha.

> > >

> > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

> > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

> > >

> > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

> > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a

> few

> > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term

vit E

> > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from

Jarrow,

> > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements

that

> > >come with gamma added. -

> > >

> > > > Hi Gang

> > > >

> > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the

> end of

> > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> > > >

> > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Kathleen

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live

> Spaces

> > friends module.

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?

> href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?

> wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We know that we need to be careful. Don't try and scare us from supplementing

though.

My son is 13 has some severe learning disabilities and the public school as not

been helpful at

all. They just want to chalk if off and force him to live on disability social

security when he

is 18. He isn't mentally retarded, but he has alot of challenge that impede his

learning.

We have tried waiting for speech and language therapy to cure him, instead they

reduce

his services and want to throw him to a class that won't help him succeed.

We started him on fish oil when he was 11 1/2 and finally he attempted to learn

to read. We

recently added Vitamin E in September and when the school tested him he had

gained 3 years of

receptive language in 5 months. Of course it isn't all the supplements, because

we have privately hired

a tutor to work with him 16 to 20 hours a month doing MoodBell and auditory

processing skills. He continues to make gain because we are doing everything

that seems to be working. He goes to tutoring, takes supplements and he has an

extra reading period at school. Without the supplements I don't know if we

would have made this much gain. My son has had an IEP for 10 years and the

schools had him reading like a 1st grader in 7th grade and he had the expressive

language of a 6 year old. He also was receptive language of an almost 7 year

old last school year. Now he is like a 10 year in receptive language. He is

still way behind in expressive. He is like a 7 year old.

My pediatrician refuses to check my childs vitamin and supplement levels because

it isn't medically necessary. She does write a note to my flexible spendings

saying that he needs the supplements and tutoring because of his PDDNOS and

Language learning disabilities. So I can use medical money or write the expense

off on my taxes.

Sorry this is so long. It is frustrating trying to get the medical doctors to do

everything we need done to get our kids the services they need to succeed in

life. And the public schools are only for the gifted and self motivated. I

have had 2 kids suffering from poor educational systems. They don't want to

spend the money to educate the kids with Language learning disabilities.

Lorraine

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " carlsoncarissa " <carlsoncarissa@...>

I do have a medical background. I am in med school right now and we

are currently going over these issues. Also, my stepson is on a fish

oil and his doctor recommended having regular liver function tests

done. But if you want to rely on what is discussed by other parents

on this website, that is your choice. I have researched quite a bite

on this subject and an excess of fat soluble vitamins can actually

cause a toxicity depending on what vitamin it is. If the child's diet

is well-balanced and complete, they should be reaching the RDA's of

these vitamins with their diet which is better because it is more

absorbable. I can get you more information on the specific toxicities

if anyone is interested. I'm not a big fan of the fish oils, I

believe speach therapy and personally working with your child is more

beneficial and effective but I am not trying to convince anyone not

to supplement with fish oil, just be careful. Better safe than sorry

when it comes to your child's liver!

> >

> > Fish oil is NOT completely benign. It can cause problems with too

> > much. Since it is metabolized and detoxified in the liver, all

> > children on fish oil should be having regular liver function tests

> > done. Also, vit A,D,E, and K are often some vitamins found in

> these

> > fish oils. These are fat soluble vitamins so are not just excreted

> in

> > the urine like water soluble vitamins are. Therefore, in excess of

> > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body

> as

> > fat.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello, after reading this future Dr. comments I just have one comment: It is

because of professionals like this that are afraid to think outside of a box

that our kids are strugling.

Thank God for Doctors that are willing to learn more and dedicate the due

research to these " alternative " treatments. Thanks to this group's hard work

and never ending search for answers I can hear my son's laughter and engage in a

conversation with him. A lot of credit shoud be given to his Speech Therapist,

but the Supplements for sure, are playing a major role on his recovery. PS: I

would never, ever endanger my son's health with treatments that could possibly

harm him, I love him too much for this!

Deborah

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

I would think the blood testing would be for those on high dosages

of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the fish

which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made

from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -do

not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the

differences in the formulas of the oils?

I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any

old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their

families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as

that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every aspect

and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on giving

our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and Fish

Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks "

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html

Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites

http://efaeducation.nih.gov/

And favorite quotes:

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html

And have you read this as a future MD?

" Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know "

" In a medical environment in which messages molded by pharmaceutical

interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should consider

the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and the

positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients should

be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a

recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many

other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely

as 'complementary medicines'.

Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce

cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus

DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can be

taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice.

Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies for

increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their usual

dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for most

individuals. "

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555

Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing of

the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils

not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the

liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which

isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please don't

take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it

wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish oil is

being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being shared

because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to cover

in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just

sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod

liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil needs

blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend regular

blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those who

eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/

And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3 we use in your

step child's diet...we'll wait.

(but not stop using our fish oils)

=====

[Guest guest]

Therefore, in excess of

> recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the body as

> fat.

What medical textbook did you get that from? Also, vitamin K is not

stored in any appreciable amount in the body, and it is quite safe to

give K2 and K3 as a supplement it lowers interluekin 6 and TNF alpha.

> > >

> > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety for

> > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

> > >

> > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

> > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results after a

> few

> > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term

vit E

> > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from

Jarrow,

> > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements

that

> > >come with gamma added. -

> > >

> > > > Hi Gang

> > > >

> > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in the

> end of

> > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> > > >

> > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Kathleen

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live

> Spaces

> > friends module.

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?

> href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?

> wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety

for

> > > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

> > > >

> > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

> > > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results

after a

> > few

> > > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-term

> vit E

> > > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from

> Jarrow,

> > > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha supplements

> that

> > > >come with gamma added. -

> > > >

> > > > > Hi Gang

> > > > >

> > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in

the

> > end of

> > > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> > > > >

> > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Kathleen

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live

> > Spaces

> > > friends module.

> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?

> > href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?

> > wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> I would think the blood testing would be for those on

high dosages

> of cod liver oil or other fish oils made from the liver of the

fish

> which naturally contain vitamin A and D. Those fish oils not made

> from the liver of the fish...which are what we use in this group -

do

> not contain vitamin A and D. Did your professors share the

> differences in the formulas of the oils?

>

> I don't believe any of us in this group just take the word of any

> old doctor or even grandparent who talks about how they and their

> families were raised on fish oil for generations (as compelling as

> that is in itself)...this group doesn't always agree on every

aspect

> and all of us have gone to great lengths to find negative on

giving

> our children fish oils...and as this NIH article says " Fish and

Fish

> Oil's Benefits Far Outweigh Risks "

> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_40141.html

>

> Here's one of my favorite EFA education sites

> http://efaeducation.nih.gov/

>

> And favorite quotes:

>

> " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

> consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

> disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a

source

> of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

> examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

> may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

> Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

> Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

> Mass 02114, USA.

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

> 4632570 & dopt=Abstract

> http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/answers.html

>

> And have you read this as a future MD?

> " Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know "

>

> " In a medical environment in which messages molded by

pharmaceutical

> interests stress the 'need' for NSAIDs, prescribers should

consider

> the NSAID-sparing effects, the lack of serious side effects and

the

> positive health benefits of fish oil. Importantly, recipients

should

> be informed that there is a 'mainstream' evidence base for such a

> recommendation, thereby distinguishing dietary n3 fats from many

> other nonprescription items that are grouped loosely

> as 'complementary medicines'.

>

> Although modest increases in intake of n3 LC PUFAs can reduce

> cardiovascular risk, relatively large doses (¡Ý 2.7 g/day EPA plus

> DHA) are required for anti-inflammatory effects. These doses can

be

> taken efficiently and economically as liquid fish oil on juice.

> Recipients should be informed that there are multiple strategies

for

> increasing n3 intake, and therefore, no matter what are their

usual

> dietary preferences, there should be an acceptable approach for

most

> individuals. "

> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1526555

>

> Please do post links to the studies that recommend blood testing

of

> the liver for those taking fish oil only if they involve fish oils

> not made from the liver of the fish...almost none of us use the

> liver fish oils. (they are higher in the DHA then the EPA which

> isn't the formula most of us find the most successful) Please

don't

> take this the wrong way...I respect medical doctors and believe it

> wonderful that you are in medical school and that for once fish

oil is

> being discussed...but I just hope all the right info is being

shared

> because the science of the O3s is complex and not something to

cover

> in a few classes. And if in fact after reviewing the links I just

> sent as well as the reason for the blood testing would be for cod

> liver oil you still believe those giving their child fish oil

needs

> blood testing...I have to wonder if you would also recommend

regular

> blood testing for damage to the liver and other organs for those

who

> eat at fast food restaurants. Did you see Fast Food Nation?

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078903/

>

> And speaking of diet -let us know if you can get the levels of O3

we use in your step child's diet...we'll wait.

> (but not stop using our fish oils)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

,

I hope you don't think I was posting,

> Therefore, in excess of

> > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the

body

> as

> > > fat.

I responded to the fact that there was no truth to that statement at

all, I quoted it, and wanted to know what medical textbook it was

taken from, as it is a load of hogwash. I mentioned the fact about

vitamin K, not even being in fish oil to begin with. A & D are not in

proefa, and the upper limits of D as such at this time can go to 2000

IU daily. But not a dose I would dabble with personally for different

reasons. I agree with you whole heartedly.

C

>

>

> True one does need to be careful of " some of the fish oil " ...ie cod

> liver oil does have vit A in it...and too much A and D can lead to

> adverse effects that are well documented. This is not an issue for

> those using the typical apraxia cocktail of pro-EFA (omega 3/6/9)

> and pro-EPA.

>

> It is very difficult to overdose on fish oil. What is not used is

> excreted, and it is NOT associated with liver problems. It can give

> you diarrhea, and it can also affect platelet function at higher

> doses...just like aspirin...and in that sense can increase risk of

> bleeding. However the impact on the platelets (making them less

> sticky)...is part of the benefits to heart health.

>

> Fear of fish oil is totally crazy. Fear of Mcs...now that

> makes sense to me. Trans fats ARE poison to our bodies, yet

> Americans consume them by the kilo. -

>

> > Therefore, in excess of

> > > recommended daily values, these vitamines are stored in the

body

> as

> > > fat.

> >

> > What medical textbook did you get that from? Also, vitamin K is

> not

> > stored in any appreciable amount in the body, and it is quite

safe

> to

> > give K2 and K3 as a supplement it lowers interluekin 6 and TNF

> alpha.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > > >

> > > > >Fish oil is safe...hard to overdose. Upper limit of safety

> for

> > > > >vitamin E = 1 gram (1500 IU).

> > > > >

> > > > >Try 2 omega 3/6/9 + 1 EPA twice a day, plus a 400 IU alpha-d-

> > > > >tocophorol twice a day. If you are seeing great results

> after a

> > > few

> > > > >weeks, you can go up to 3 times a day. If planning long-

term

> > vit E

> > > > >supplements, also add a gamma 200-300mg (I use gamma E from

> > Jarrow,

> > > > >but there are other brands, and some of the alpha

supplements

> > that

> > > > >come with gamma added. -

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Gang

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I jumped in with increasing fish oil and adding E back in

> the

> > > end of

> > > > > > August--thanks again, !!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How much is safe for my 41 pound 6 year old son?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kathleen

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

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