Re: Just below ASD

September 26, 2006

Ditto - my son with ASD is very social. He also likes people but

doesn't play with them appropriately. Lack of social interest is not

necessary for an ASD dx. My son has also benefitted greatly from ABA.

>

> Laurie Mom to Mic 5 yrs old ds/asd. I dont think a child has to be

non social to be considered asd. Mic is a very social little boy and

always has been. He likes people and kids but doesnt play with them

appropiately. He has plenty of OCD behaviors, I would find another

doctor. Maybe mild asd but not just below. I know of several asd kids

in Mics school that are social and you have to be dxed asd to be in

that school. Something just doesnt seem right here.Mic is considered

moderately autistic because we do have the social part we just fit

most all the rest of the criteria. If you get a diagnosis your

services will be much better. I have seen children severely autistic

change into normal happy social talking kids using ABA. I just wanted

tp put my 2 cents in here. Mic would be considered globally delayed

but thats not a clear dx is it. I hope you find some answers. Laurie

>

September 26, 2006

I don't think this is uncommon--to give a diagnosis of PDD NOS when

they are uncertain of diagnosis. Many people feel that when PDD

gets dropped when the child is older it means the diagnosis was

incorrect to begin with. (Is this what happened with your child?)

I've been told that when parents push for a diagnosis doctors fall

back on PDD NOS.

> >

> > I don't understand how they can diagnos a child that young

unless

> the symtpms are evident. PDD-NOS means they are unsure....

> >

> > Can you please elaborate on globally dev. delay?

> >

> > I am getting my endorsement / masters in autism...any info

would

> be helpful for me to research.

> >

> > Thank you!!!!

> > Tonya

> >

> Hi Tonya....they can and do diagnos kids at around age two. Our

> first pdd dx came when my son was about 20 months old....he had

> stopped babbling, became extremely picky with foods, and was

self-

> stimming.

> He also seemed social, lovable and warm. They gave him dx of

pddnos.

> (later when he was around 4 he got dx of apraxia.) He is not

global

> dev delayed but when he was 2 they thought he may possably

> be...which some people think is the same as MR.

>

September 26, 2006

I think this is controversial. The cornerstone of autism is a

failure to relate socially (according to the original definition).

Some would argue that a child who is social is not truly autistic.

Autism is not supposed to be curable, so again, many would argue

that a child who " overcomes " autism was not autistic to begin with.

Some parents seem satisfied that their child's ASD diagnosis fits in

spite of the child's social interest and affection. Other parents

feel their child has been mislabeled. I've also read there are

different models to diagnos ASD and PDD, clinical, educational and

behavioral (the last two might be one in the same and are more

liberal). I find all of this really confusing. Why wouldn't there

be a standard model for diagnosis and a fixed criteria?

For those parents whose children have been diagnosed with ASD and

PDD, but who are social and affectionate, I wonder what type of

professional made the diagnosis, and what model did they use?

>

> Laurie Mom to Mic 5 yrs old ds/asd. I dont think a child has to be

non social to be considered asd. Mic is a very social little boy and

always has been. He likes people and kids but doesnt play with them

appropiately. He has plenty of OCD behaviors, I would find another

doctor. Maybe mild asd but not just below. I know of several asd

kids in Mics school that are social and you have to be dxed asd to

be in that school. Something just doesnt seem right here.Mic is

considered moderately autistic because we do have the social part we

just fit most all the rest of the criteria. If you get a diagnosis

your services will be much better. I have seen children severely

autistic change into normal happy social talking kids using ABA. I

just wanted tp put my 2 cents in here. Mic would be considered

globally delayed but thats not a clear dx is it. I hope you find

some answers. Laurie

>

September 26, 2006

>

> I don't think this is uncommon--to give a diagnosis of PDD NOS when

> they are uncertain of diagnosis. Many people feel that when PDD

> gets dropped when the child is older it means the diagnosis was

> incorrect to begin with. (Is this what happened with your child?)

> I've been told that when parents push for a diagnosis doctors fall

> back on PDD NOS.

>

> --- In , " ritas2boys "

Hi....well actually my son still carries the pddnos dx and the

dyspraxia/apraxia dx. I just haven't had him re-evaluated and don't

know if I shoud. He still has issues but most related to

dyspraxia....hard time tying his shoes (he is 9 yr old) handwriting is

really bad, although cursive is pretty good....speech is funny, high

pitched......anyway, attends regular ed and gets mostly A's but still

needs speech and OT therapy.....

September 26, 2006

You're right, the whole PDD discussion is controversial. I think it is

an emotional hot button for many of us.

I work in the medical field.... in pediatrics. I've always considered

PDD an " I give up " diagnosis. In other words.... you have a little bit

of this and a little bit of that... there is something wrong but it

doesn't really fit anywhere.... you're a bit of a mystery.... I give

up- lets call it PDD, for now.

I live in Washington but until recently spent my entire career in

central Florida. We actually have labeled this (tongue in cheek) as

some kids are PDD and some are PDDFN (PDD for now). Why? Because

parents go see a specialist or something to get their diagnosis and

when they come back they tell us that the evaluator said it wasn't

clear, etc but they thought that it was appropriate to label the child

" pdd for now " . The mom is also told that the child may or may not be

PDD in a year or two. (???) While I know these kids are difficult to

diagnose, I am always left with the feeling that the evaluator just

stopped trying when they make statements like that to parents.

Because the diagnosis is so overused many school systems cut services

when a child moves from dev. delay label to a PDD label. The reason is

that dev. delay means you have rehab potential, but PDD, in their

minds, does not. That said, PDD is on the spectrum but does not get

the boom of increased services that classic autism gets you. Why?

School systems seem to think that PDD doesn't have the social

interaction difficulties that classic autism does so they don't need to

spend as much funds on speech and such to help the child integrate into

society. It's a diagnosis of uncertainty and I fear that some kids

fall through the cracks once that label is attached.

Just my 2cents!

Kris

On Sep 25, 2006, at 4:46 PM, myjunkytrash wrote:

> I don't think this is uncommon--to give a diagnosis of PDD NOS when

> they are uncertain of diagnosis. Many people feel that when PDD

> gets dropped when the child is older it means the diagnosis was

> incorrect to begin with. (Is this what happened with your child?)

> I've been told that when parents push for a diagnosis doctors fall

> back on PDD NOS.

>

> > >

> > > I don't understand how they can diagnos a child that young

> unless

> > the symtpms are evident. PDD-NOS means they are unsure....

> > >

> > > Can you please elaborate on globally dev. delay?

> > >

> > > I am getting my endorsement / masters in autism...any info

> would

> > be helpful for me to research.

> > >

> > > Thank you!!!!

> > > Tonya

> > >

> > Hi Tonya....they can and do diagnos kids at around age two. Our

> > first pdd dx came when my son was about 20 months old....he had

> > stopped babbling, became extremely picky with foods, and was

> self-

> > stimming.

> > He also seemed social, lovable and warm. They gave him dx of

> pddnos.

> > (later when he was around 4 he got dx of apraxia.) He is not

> global

> > dev delayed but when he was 2 they thought he may possably

> > be...which some people think is the same as MR.

> >

>

September 26, 2006

I think it is extremely important for anyone concerned about autism

to Google DSM IV criteria for autism and study it. Autism is

normally not diagnosed in children who are " very social " but " very

social, " of course, is a subjective description. There is strict

criteria that must be met for an autism diagnosis to be made by a

reputable professional. A qualified developmental pediatrician who

is skilled at diagnosing children with autism (and those without)

will follow this criteria.

This is a touchy subject for me because when I first became a member

of this group I started to wonder if my son, who had been diagnosed

as having motor dyspraxia by a developmental pediatrician, might

actually be autistic, if only mildly so. I wondered because there

were bright, reasonable sounding folks posting about their

experiences and describing kids as autistic whom they also described

as having strong social skills, like my outgoing, affectionate,

social son. I did not want to be " in denial " and overlook treatment

that could be helpful to my son. Meanwhile, everyone working with my

son - from speech therapists to occupational therapists - believed

the diagnosis of dyspraxia (and later apraxia) was accurate.

Wanting to be absolutely sure, though, I ultimately flew from

California to New York City to see Dr. Agin. I knew that she had dxd

kids with autism, and that she could tell me with conviction whether

he was on the spectrum. Her diagnosis was global dyspraxia. She and

the speech therapist who was also present for the evaluation both

readily dismissed the possibility of autism.

I worry about parents who may go off on tangents like I did because

they want to do the right thing for their child and don't want to

be " in denial. " Everytime this topic gets revisited, and it gets

revisited a lot, I worry about parents who might start second

guessing the diagnosing professionals who have actually observed and

assessed their children.

My son is now in his 5th week of mainstream kindergarten at a

private Catholic school. He consistently leaves school with a " color

clip " describing his performance for the day as

either " outstanding " " great " or " good. " He loves school. His teacher

describes him as " a wonderful boy with a very sweet temperment. " His

fine motor skills are still an issue, but he can write his name

finally, and is learning to write letters and numbers. Would he be

less likely to be " a wonderful boy with a very sweet temperment " if

he were also labeled as having autism? NO. Would I love him any

less? NO. Would the focus of his current therapy and his school

placement be different? YES to current therapy, probably yes to

treatnment. There is a difference between dyspraxia/apraxia and

autism. After you have located a qualified developmental

pediatrician who understands the difference, trust them to give you

an accurate diagnosis.

> >

> > Laurie Mom to Mic 5 yrs old ds/asd. I dont think a child has to

be

> non social to be considered asd. Mic is a very social little boy

and

> always has been. He likes people and kids but doesnt play with them

> appropiately. He has plenty of OCD behaviors, I would find another

> doctor. Maybe mild asd but not just below. I know of several asd

kids

> in Mics school that are social and you have to be dxed asd to be in

> that school. Something just doesnt seem right here.Mic is

considered

> moderately autistic because we do have the social part we just fit

> most all the rest of the criteria. If you get a diagnosis your

> services will be much better. I have seen children severely

autistic

> change into normal happy social talking kids using ABA. I just

wanted

> tp put my 2 cents in here. Mic would be considered globally delayed

> but thats not a clear dx is it. I hope you find some answers.

Laurie

> >

September 26, 2006

>

> I don't think this is uncommon--to give a diagnosis of PDD NOS when

> they are uncertain of diagnosis. Many people feel that when PDD

> gets dropped when the child is older it means the diagnosis was

> incorrect to begin with. (Is this what happened with your child?)

> I've been told that when parents push for a diagnosis doctors fall

> back on PDD NOS.

>

> --- In , " ritas2boys "

Hi....well actually my son still carries the pddnos dx and the

dyspraxia/apraxia dx. I just haven't had him re-evaluated and don't

know if I shoud. He still has issues but most related to

dyspraxia....hard time tying his shoes (he is 9 yr old) handwriting is

really bad, although cursive is pretty good....speech is funny, high

pitched......anyway, attends regular ed and gets mostly A's but still

needs speech and OT therapy.....

September 26, 2006

In my area, docs seem reluctant to give the ASD/PDD label, so kids are

likely to get diagnosed late. This is unfortunate, since early

intervention is so crucial.

I don't agree that PDD-NOS is an " I give up " diagnosis. It has

diagnostic criteria just as autism, Asperger's, Rett's, etc do. An

experienced diagnostician should be able to make an accurate dx in a

child at age 2. If a doctor told me that my child might not qualify

for the PDD-NOS dx in a couple of years, I would take that as a sign

that the doc believes my child has the potential to improve a lot in a

fairly short time. That's a good thing to hear.

Maybe the situation is different in areas where an autism dx gets you

funding for an ABA program.

If you have a younger child and feel uncertain about what diagnosis is

accurate, I suggest you ask your ped to do the CHAT screening on

him/her. If you google " CHAT autism " you'll find a copy of it. There

is a modified version that is even more accurate.

> > > >

> > > > I don't understand how they can diagnos a child that young

> > unless

> > > the symtpms are evident. PDD-NOS means they are unsure....

> > > >

> > > > Can you please elaborate on globally dev. delay?

> > > >

> > > > I am getting my endorsement / masters in autism...any info

> > would

> > > be helpful for me to research.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you!!!!

> > > > Tonya

> > > >

> > > Hi Tonya....they can and do diagnos kids at around age two. Our

> > > first pdd dx came when my son was about 20 months old....he had

> > > stopped babbling, became extremely picky with foods, and was

> > self-

> > > stimming.

> > > He also seemed social, lovable and warm. They gave him dx of

> > pddnos.

> > > (later when he was around 4 he got dx of apraxia.) He is not

> > global

> > > dev delayed but when he was 2 they thought he may possably

> > > be...which some people think is the same as MR.

> > >

> >

>

September 26, 2006

I've also heard people define (tongue-in-cheek) PDD as " Physician

Didn't Diagnose " for all the same reasons you stated. If a

diagnosis doesn't give insight into what kind of therapies or

treatments to use, then what good is it?

> > > >

> > > > I don't understand how they can diagnos a child that young

> > unless

> > > the symtpms are evident. PDD-NOS means they are unsure....

> > > >

> > > > Can you please elaborate on globally dev. delay?

> > > >

> > > > I am getting my endorsement / masters in autism...any info

> > would

> > > be helpful for me to research.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you!!!!

> > > > Tonya

> > > >

> > > Hi Tonya....they can and do diagnos kids at around age two.

Our

> > > first pdd dx came when my son was about 20 months old....he

had

> > > stopped babbling, became extremely picky with foods, and was

> > self-

> > > stimming.

> > > He also seemed social, lovable and warm. They gave him dx of

> > pddnos.

> > > (later when he was around 4 he got dx of apraxia.) He is not

> > global

> > > dev delayed but when he was 2 they thought he may possably

> > > be...which some people think is the same as MR.

> > >

> >

>

September 26, 2006

, I don't think anyone is saying that social relationships and

play skills are completely normal in children with ASD. What we are

saying is that the stereotype of a child who has no interest in social

interaction doesn't apply in many cases. As I said, my son with ASD

*is* very interested in other people and wants to play and talk with

other kids, but that doesn't mean that he has the skills to interact

appropriately with a same age peer.

But I do want to emphasize that a lack of social interest, and a lack

of affection, does not necessarily come with ASD.

If you look at the CHAT - which I encourage anyone who is concerned

that their young child might have autism spectrum disorder - the

screening questions will give you a good idea of what key things to

look for. Note that there are no questions about how affectionate the

child is, or whether he or she gets upset when another child doesn't

want to play with him/her.

> > >

> > > Laurie Mom to Mic 5 yrs old ds/asd. I dont think a child has to

> be

> > non social to be considered asd. Mic is a very social little boy

> and

> > always has been. He likes people and kids but doesnt play with them

> > appropiately. He has plenty of OCD behaviors, I would find another

> > doctor. Maybe mild asd but not just below. I know of several asd

> kids

> > in Mics school that are social and you have to be dxed asd to be in

> > that school. Something just doesnt seem right here.Mic is

> considered

> > moderately autistic because we do have the social part we just fit

> > most all the rest of the criteria. If you get a diagnosis your

> > services will be much better. I have seen children severely

> autistic

> > change into normal happy social talking kids using ABA. I just

> wanted

> > tp put my 2 cents in here. Mic would be considered globally delayed

> > but thats not a clear dx is it. I hope you find some answers.

> Laurie

> > >

September 26, 2006

My son was given the ASD, PDD, and PDD NOS diagnosis within different visits

to the same Ped. Neurologist.

[ ] Re: Just below ASD

> In my area, docs seem reluctant to give the ASD/PDD label, so kids are

> likely to get diagnosed late. This is unfortunate, since early

> intervention is so crucial.

>

> I don't agree that PDD-NOS is an " I give up " diagnosis. It has

> diagnostic criteria just as autism, Asperger's, Rett's, etc do. An

> experienced diagnostician should be able to make an accurate dx in a

> child at age 2. If a doctor told me that my child might not qualify

> for the PDD-NOS dx in a couple of years, I would take that as a sign

> that the doc believes my child has the potential to improve a lot in a

> fairly short time. That's a good thing to hear.

>

> Maybe the situation is different in areas where an autism dx gets you

> funding for an ABA program.

>

> If you have a younger child and feel uncertain about what diagnosis is

> accurate, I suggest you ask your ped to do the CHAT screening on

> him/her. If you google " CHAT autism " you'll find a copy of it. There

> is a modified version that is even more accurate.

>

>> > > >

>> > > > I don't understand how they can diagnos a child that young

>> > unless

>> > > the symtpms are evident. PDD-NOS means they are unsure....

>> > > >

>> > > > Can you please elaborate on globally dev. delay?

>> > > >

>> > > > I am getting my endorsement / masters in autism...any info

>> > would

>> > > be helpful for me to research.

>> > > >

>> > > > Thank you!!!!

>> > > > Tonya

>> > > >

>> > > Hi Tonya....they can and do diagnos kids at around age two. Our

>> > > first pdd dx came when my son was about 20 months old....he had

>> > > stopped babbling, became extremely picky with foods, and was

>> > self-

>> > > stimming.

>> > > He also seemed social, lovable and warm. They gave him dx of

>> > pddnos.

>> > > (later when he was around 4 he got dx of apraxia.) He is not

>> > global

>> > > dev delayed but when he was 2 they thought he may possably

>> > > be...which some people think is the same as MR.

>> > >

>> >

>>

September 26, 2006