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As I've said before, if you get a DUI and are found guilty, a court can sentence you to a year's attendance at MADD meetings. Or six months of twice-weekly blood tests. Or a year as an honorary pallbearer at funerals of people killed by drunk drivers. That's if, of course, these don't violate the Eighth Amendment.

If you're convicted, as long as your constitutional rights aren't violated, the courts can "coerce" you into whatever they deem fitting.

Or, you can do the time.

--Mona--

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As I've said before, if you get a DUI and are found guilty, a court can sentence you to a year's attendance at MADD meetings. Or six months of twice-weekly blood tests. Or a year as an honorary pallbearer at funerals of people killed by drunk drivers. That's if, of course, these don't violate the Eighth Amendment.

If you're convicted, as long as your constitutional rights aren't violated, the courts can "coerce" you into whatever they deem fitting.

Or, you can do the time.

--Mona--

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> Another such what Mona? You made what I took to be a strange

comment and I

> commented on that. You seem to be forgetting here that the initial

comment

> that initiated my response was from you, and it had the distinct

tone of

> someone who felt she could use back up here. Which I still think

sounded

> odd coming from you.

,

Can you lay up on this for a bit? I think the " Paranoia " accusations

of some of us, including me, arent all that unfounded. Mona has a

difficult move ahead of her and she's obviously goinbg to be stressed

out a bit by that, and I don't think this helps her or matters v much.

P.

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> Another such what Mona? You made what I took to be a strange

comment and I

> commented on that. You seem to be forgetting here that the initial

comment

> that initiated my response was from you, and it had the distinct

tone of

> someone who felt she could use back up here. Which I still think

sounded

> odd coming from you.

,

Can you lay up on this for a bit? I think the " Paranoia " accusations

of some of us, including me, arent all that unfounded. Mona has a

difficult move ahead of her and she's obviously goinbg to be stressed

out a bit by that, and I don't think this helps her or matters v much.

P.

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> I'm moving out-of-state in a bit more than a week, and had planned

to

> unsubscribe at that time. You make that decision easier. If you

like, I

> will also post to the LSRlist that we are not welcome here.

Do the former if you must Mona, but *please* dont do the latter. It

isn't true, at least as far as I'm concerned.

P.

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> I'm moving out-of-state in a bit more than a week, and had planned

to

> unsubscribe at that time. You make that decision easier. If you

like, I

> will also post to the LSRlist that we are not welcome here.

Do the former if you must Mona, but *please* dont do the latter. It

isn't true, at least as far as I'm concerned.

P.

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> It is my hope to be instrumental in pulling together a national

clearinghouse

> for lawyers who will fight 12 Step coercion. But I'm not going to

do so in

> an atmosphere of paranoia and lunacy.

Never mind Dave Mona. Apparently just going to OA meetings for

social support makes me a " fully-fledged stepper " . He rarely wades

in, so dont be bothered by that. Say, have you noticed that without

the R, his name is " Tippel " , and a " tipple " is a coy term for a drink?

Pete is feeling a conspiracy theory coming on!!!!!

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> It is my hope to be instrumental in pulling together a national

clearinghouse

> for lawyers who will fight 12 Step coercion. But I'm not going to

do so in

> an atmosphere of paranoia and lunacy.

Never mind Dave Mona. Apparently just going to OA meetings for

social support makes me a " fully-fledged stepper " . He rarely wades

in, so dont be bothered by that. Say, have you noticed that without

the R, his name is " Tippel " , and a " tipple " is a coy term for a drink?

Pete is feeling a conspiracy theory coming on!!!!!

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> It is my hope to be instrumental in pulling together a national

clearinghouse

> for lawyers who will fight 12 Step coercion. But I'm not going to

do so in

> an atmosphere of paranoia and lunacy.

Never mind Dave Mona. Apparently just going to OA meetings for

social support makes me a " fully-fledged stepper " . He rarely wades

in, so dont be bothered by that. Say, have you noticed that without

the R, his name is " Tippel " , and a " tipple " is a coy term for a drink?

Pete is feeling a conspiracy theory coming on!!!!!

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One more time.

My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been Anti-Mona.

You and her have been attempting to distort that into some form of

indictment of LSR by the list as a whole. That's ridiculous. My initial

comment to her has been explained a few times to her and she chooses to

ignore it in favor of her " This List Hates LSR Theory " while at the same

time insisting I shouldn't ignore her explanation of her original comment

which I still believe was done with divisive intent and not a mere welcome

as she claims. An opinion that I think has been born out by her subsequent

postings and generalized indictments concerning the list and it's members.

My response didn't come out of thin air Steve. It was precipitated by what

" I " still consider to be a " very odd " post from her.

------Original Message-----

-From: Steve Snyder

-And it's comments like your's that intensify my view that this grup is

-anti-LSR.

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One more time.

My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been Anti-Mona.

You and her have been attempting to distort that into some form of

indictment of LSR by the list as a whole. That's ridiculous. My initial

comment to her has been explained a few times to her and she chooses to

ignore it in favor of her " This List Hates LSR Theory " while at the same

time insisting I shouldn't ignore her explanation of her original comment

which I still believe was done with divisive intent and not a mere welcome

as she claims. An opinion that I think has been born out by her subsequent

postings and generalized indictments concerning the list and it's members.

My response didn't come out of thin air Steve. It was precipitated by what

" I " still consider to be a " very odd " post from her.

------Original Message-----

-From: Steve Snyder

-And it's comments like your's that intensify my view that this grup is

-anti-LSR.

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One more time.

My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been Anti-Mona.

You and her have been attempting to distort that into some form of

indictment of LSR by the list as a whole. That's ridiculous. My initial

comment to her has been explained a few times to her and she chooses to

ignore it in favor of her " This List Hates LSR Theory " while at the same

time insisting I shouldn't ignore her explanation of her original comment

which I still believe was done with divisive intent and not a mere welcome

as she claims. An opinion that I think has been born out by her subsequent

postings and generalized indictments concerning the list and it's members.

My response didn't come out of thin air Steve. It was precipitated by what

" I " still consider to be a " very odd " post from her.

------Original Message-----

-From: Steve Snyder

-And it's comments like your's that intensify my view that this grup is

-anti-LSR.

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>

>One more time.

>

>My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been Anti-Mona.

>You and her have been attempting to distort that into some form of

>indictment of LSR by the list as a whole. That's ridiculous. My initial

>comment to her has been explained a few times to her and she chooses to

>ignore it in favor of her " This List Hates LSR Theory " while at the same

>time insisting I shouldn't ignore her explanation of her original comment

>which I still believe was done with divisive intent and not a mere welcome

>as she claims. An opinion that I think has been born out by her subsequent

>postings and generalized indictments concerning the list and it's members.

>

>My response didn't come out of thin air Steve. It was precipitated by what

> " I " still consider to be a " very odd " post from her.

And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

And I'd say that started with the former Beloved Leader's comments of

resignation about two weeks ago.

Steve

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>

>One more time.

>

>My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been Anti-Mona.

>You and her have been attempting to distort that into some form of

>indictment of LSR by the list as a whole. That's ridiculous. My initial

>comment to her has been explained a few times to her and she chooses to

>ignore it in favor of her " This List Hates LSR Theory " while at the same

>time insisting I shouldn't ignore her explanation of her original comment

>which I still believe was done with divisive intent and not a mere welcome

>as she claims. An opinion that I think has been born out by her subsequent

>postings and generalized indictments concerning the list and it's members.

>

>My response didn't come out of thin air Steve. It was precipitated by what

> " I " still consider to be a " very odd " post from her.

And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

And I'd say that started with the former Beloved Leader's comments of

resignation about two weeks ago.

Steve

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>

>One more time.

>

>My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been Anti-Mona.

>You and her have been attempting to distort that into some form of

>indictment of LSR by the list as a whole. That's ridiculous. My initial

>comment to her has been explained a few times to her and she chooses to

>ignore it in favor of her " This List Hates LSR Theory " while at the same

>time insisting I shouldn't ignore her explanation of her original comment

>which I still believe was done with divisive intent and not a mere welcome

>as she claims. An opinion that I think has been born out by her subsequent

>postings and generalized indictments concerning the list and it's members.

>

>My response didn't come out of thin air Steve. It was precipitated by what

> " I " still consider to be a " very odd " post from her.

And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

And I'd say that started with the former Beloved Leader's comments of

resignation about two weeks ago.

Steve

_________________________________________________________________

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------Original Message-----

-From: Steve Snyder

-And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

-Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

-this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

I have yet to hear a decent explanation of this paranoia people are talking

about irregardless of what Pete has to say on the subject. When Mona

mentioned it, it seemed to be in reference to a few of the former members

now members in exile and what some of us may believe to be their various

intentions. The very fact that one is definitely lurking and both have been

kicked off the list only to return with different email addys and are now

sending emails to this list members off list tends to point in the direction

reverse paranoia.

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------Original Message-----

-From: Steve Snyder

-And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

-Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

-this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

I have yet to hear a decent explanation of this paranoia people are talking

about irregardless of what Pete has to say on the subject. When Mona

mentioned it, it seemed to be in reference to a few of the former members

now members in exile and what some of us may believe to be their various

intentions. The very fact that one is definitely lurking and both have been

kicked off the list only to return with different email addys and are now

sending emails to this list members off list tends to point in the direction

reverse paranoia.

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------Original Message-----

-From: Steve Snyder

-And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

-Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

-this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

I have yet to hear a decent explanation of this paranoia people are talking

about irregardless of what Pete has to say on the subject. When Mona

mentioned it, it seemed to be in reference to a few of the former members

now members in exile and what some of us may believe to be their various

intentions. The very fact that one is definitely lurking and both have been

kicked off the list only to return with different email addys and are now

sending emails to this list members off list tends to point in the direction

reverse paranoia.

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>

>-And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

>-Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

>-this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

>

>I have yet to hear a decent explanation of this paranoia people are talking

>about irregardless of what Pete has to say on the subject. When Mona

>mentioned it, it seemed to be in reference to a few of the former members

>now members in exile and what some of us may believe to be their various

>intentions. The very fact that one is definitely lurking and both have

>been

>kicked off the list only to return with different email addys and are now

>sending emails to this list members off list tends to point in the

>direction

>reverse paranoia.

>

I think a number of people's reactions over the NY District Court ruling,

the interpretation that AA might be engineering it, or that AA was going to

spin it, or there was some sort of AA conspiracy involved, points quite

clearly to AA paranoia.

So too, as I already posted once, is the sheer lunacy of people who said, in

essence, " I think we should pretend to be steppers, get jobs at rehabs, work

'undercover' for 5 years, then overthrow the system. "

First, many AAers have their own objections to treatment centers and the

industry they've become; it's not all so monolithic. Second, people like

that need a life just like " 90 in 90 " steppers, in my opinion.

I **know** I was referring to current members, and nonlurking ones. I was

referring neither to Jim Shirk, nor anybody who's been recently booted.

And, while Pete may have been referrring in part to such persons, I didn't

get the impression that was the only thrust of his post. And that doesn't

matter. My view is still that there's an almost AA conspiracy theory mania

in a definite percentage of this group.

And, these are entirely my own opinions, before you go down the road of

" Mona calling backup. "

Steve

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>

>-And, one more time, my comments go beyond your comments about Mona. Even

>-Pete said just a little bit ago that some comments by certain members of

>-this group demonstrate a certain amount of paranoia.

>

>I have yet to hear a decent explanation of this paranoia people are talking

>about irregardless of what Pete has to say on the subject. When Mona

>mentioned it, it seemed to be in reference to a few of the former members

>now members in exile and what some of us may believe to be their various

>intentions. The very fact that one is definitely lurking and both have

>been

>kicked off the list only to return with different email addys and are now

>sending emails to this list members off list tends to point in the

>direction

>reverse paranoia.

>

I think a number of people's reactions over the NY District Court ruling,

the interpretation that AA might be engineering it, or that AA was going to

spin it, or there was some sort of AA conspiracy involved, points quite

clearly to AA paranoia.

So too, as I already posted once, is the sheer lunacy of people who said, in

essence, " I think we should pretend to be steppers, get jobs at rehabs, work

'undercover' for 5 years, then overthrow the system. "

First, many AAers have their own objections to treatment centers and the

industry they've become; it's not all so monolithic. Second, people like

that need a life just like " 90 in 90 " steppers, in my opinion.

I **know** I was referring to current members, and nonlurking ones. I was

referring neither to Jim Shirk, nor anybody who's been recently booted.

And, while Pete may have been referrring in part to such persons, I didn't

get the impression that was the only thrust of his post. And that doesn't

matter. My view is still that there's an almost AA conspiracy theory mania

in a definite percentage of this group.

And, these are entirely my own opinions, before you go down the road of

" Mona calling backup. "

Steve

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>

> > My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been

>Anti-Mona.

> >

>

>Then what did you mean in asking me about bringing in " back-up " ? If

>LSR/SOS

>has nothing to do with your views, then what was that all about?

>

>--Mona--

And I've already told that my opinions are purely my own.

Back to you, .

Steve

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>

> > My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been

>Anti-Mona.

> >

>

>Then what did you mean in asking me about bringing in " back-up " ? If

>LSR/SOS

>has nothing to do with your views, then what was that all about?

>

>--Mona--

And I've already told that my opinions are purely my own.

Back to you, .

Steve

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>

> > My comments, to this point, have not been anti-LSR they've been

>Anti-Mona.

> >

>

>Then what did you mean in asking me about bringing in " back-up " ? If

>LSR/SOS

>has nothing to do with your views, then what was that all about?

>

>--Mona--

And I've already told that my opinions are purely my own.

Back to you, .

Steve

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