question

February 4, 2004

Uh....

Chelation only works -- is my current belief -- if the mercury has not

made it into the brain and is still in the blood stream, and frankly I

have seen no proof of that. The World Health Organization archives hold

a paper that says they tested a subject and determined an amount and

tested later and it was less, but they don't even bother to say *where*

it went.

Once in the brain, it is not detectable or removeable. Only autopsy

knows for sure.

There really isn't anything one can do to get " cured " . There is none.

It requires learning how to live with it and clearly we are not doing

that, nor are we doing that for our children. We are on new ground, but

we have to face reality here.

The main thing this minute is to stop the injections and proceed with

getting it out of all production.

Our only hope is that future generations can be treated for the mutated

genes we are passing on and this will be turned around down the line.

I have learned much about living with this and will gladly share, but

unless I get any blinding insight or input, the only thing to do now is

stop this media blackout, open those court transcripts, and get the word

out so people can " wake up " , which is our best chance to lower the

horrible things that are happening in our ignorance.

When I realized what had happened to me, I lost 99 percent of my

emotional pain in a matter of days. It took about a year to really

process this, but the crucial thing to get hold of is that we have

forgotten just how powerful the truth is, all on its own. I know this

is the truth, not because of any research, but of what happened to me

when I found out.

Everytime the truth finally comes out about anything, there is a

transformation all around. We desperately need this truth to be known

all over. We are talking about hundreds of millions of people...around

the world.

For example, I am convinced that the first symptom of being poisoned and

not knowing it is: stress. It's the itch you can't scratch; the look in

someone's eyes when you say something and you know you didn't connect.

One of the listed symptoms of mercury poisoning is just mindboggling:

it causes an inner ear disturbance that makes it " difficult to orient

one's self in space " ....for heaven's sake!!!

We nearly *all* can gasp at that.

Bess

Chuck wrote:

> There is currently no test on Earth to determine you are 100% clean

> of mercury once you have been exposed. So " how clean " you are

> and " how fast " you can get mercury out of your system, are relative

> questions.

>

> > > I have heard one and a half years after detoxing thrown around.

> > The point

> > > is, you want to have as little mercury in your body as you can.

> As

> > a former

> > > international kid, I'm afraid my firstborn might have gotten a

> > bunch from

> > > me, but who's to say?

> > > Barb

> > > [ ] Question

> > >

> > > > I am hoping to get my amalgams removed in March/April.

> > > >

> > > > We are hoping to get pregnant after that time......is there a

> time

> > > > period after amalgam removal to wait for pregnancy?

> > > >

> > > > We may wait for chelation as the access to chelation materials

> is

> > > > difficult in Africa where we are now, as is importation.....

> > > >

> > > > Thank you,

> > > >

> > > > Susie

> > > >

> > > > =======================================================

> > > >

February 4, 2004

Have you done a hair analysis? What symptoms of mercury tox do you have? What

other toxic metals? Do you already have kids with tox issues? Have you had

miscarriages, stillbirths, infant deaths (SIDS, etc), trouble getting pregnant?

There's a book about those issues by Ziff, DDS & Sam Ziff. Let me know

if you want the exact title. IMO you should wait until after you've chelated.

S

--- On Tue 02/03, theycallmesusie1974 <

<tt>

I am hoping to get my amalgams removed in March/April.

We are hoping to get pregnant after that time......is there a time

period after amalgam removal to wait for pregnancy?

We may wait for chelation as the access to chelation materials is

difficult in Africa where we are now, as is importation.....

Thank you,

Susie

</tt>

<tt>

=======================================================

February 4, 2004

Comments interspersed

S

>

Uh....

Chelation only works -- is my current belief -- if the mercury has not

made it into the brain and is still in the blood stream, and frankly I

have seen no proof of that.

>

*ALA crosses the BBB.

>

The World Health Organization archives hold

a paper that says they tested a subject and determined an amount and

tested later and it was less, but they don't even bother to say *where*

it went.

* Some people's bodies cannot detox mercury more efficiently than ours. That's

one reason not everyone with mercury amalgam dental fillings or vaccines shows

symptoms of toxicity.

>

Once in the brain, it is not detectable or removeable.

>

*That depends upon what chelator people use and how.

>

Only autopsy

knows for sure.

>

*Anybody seen an autopsy repost of someone who reduced symptoms through proper

chelation?

>

There really isn't anything one can do to get " cured " . There is none.

>

*Some of us disagree.

>

> =======================================================

>

February 4, 2004

good luck...

Shepard wrote:

>Comments interspersed

> S

>

>Uh....

>

>Chelation only works -- is my current belief -- if the mercury has not

>made it into the brain and is still in the blood stream, and frankly I

>have seen no proof of that.

>

>*ALA crosses the BBB.

>

> The World Health Organization archives hold

>a paper that says they tested a subject and determined an amount and

>tested later and it was less, but they don't even bother to say *where*

>it went.

>

>* Some people's bodies cannot detox mercury more efficiently than ours. That's

one reason not everyone with mercury amalgam dental fillings or vaccines shows

symptoms of toxicity.

>

>Once in the brain, it is not detectable or removeable.

>

>*That depends upon what chelator people use and how.

>

>Only autopsy

>knows for sure.

>

>

>*Anybody seen an autopsy repost of someone who reduced symptoms through proper

chelation?

>

>There really isn't anything one can do to get " cured " . There is none.

>

>*Some of us disagree.

>

>>=======================================================

>>

February 4, 2004

If someone knows an accurate test for every tissue and every segment

of bone or cartilage in the human body for mercury, I would really

like to get it so I can stop the years of chelation right now. The

only person who can tell with 100% certainty that I know is GOD, and

right now he hasn't told me to stop or I haven't heard him.

> >

> Uh....

>

> Chelation only works -- is my current belief -- if the mercury has

not

> made it into the brain and is still in the blood stream, and

frankly I

> have seen no proof of that.

> >

> *ALA crosses the BBB.

> >

> The World Health Organization archives hold

> a paper that says they tested a subject and determined an amount

and

> tested later and it was less, but they don't even bother to say

*where*

> it went.

>

> * Some people's bodies cannot detox mercury more efficiently than

ours. That's one reason not everyone with mercury amalgam dental

fillings or vaccines shows symptoms of toxicity.

> >

> Once in the brain, it is not detectable or removeable.

> >

> *That depends upon what chelator people use and how.

> >

> Only autopsy

> knows for sure.

>

> >

> *Anybody seen an autopsy repost of someone who reduced symptoms

through proper chelation?

> >

> There really isn't anything one can do to get " cured " . There is

none.

> >

> *Some of us disagree.

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

February 5, 2004

No hair analysis as they said here it wouldn't be helpful if it was

nursing....I hav two kids with AS, one baby that is not as

bad....each kid is better with the as (less affected), 9

miscarriages, and some trouble getting pregnant.

My husband got his amalgams out, but opted out on chelation for the

time being...., my son is weaning and I am hoping to get my amalgams

out, but if chelation it would only be ALA......I am in Africa, and

there just isn't access to everything.....

I have a pituitary tumor and lupus and all my problems started

hmmmm....some after extensive dental work, but more so after I

received the MMR first year of college, and definitely with the

Hepatitis B I had that next summer (I am a nurse).

WHen I have not been pregnant or nursing before, my pituitary tumor

has gone a little nutty, putting me into premature menopause at the

age 21.....I was kind of trying to avoid being too long without

nursing or pregnancy....plus we would like to have more kids....

Please let me know more,

Susie

>

> Have you done a hair analysis? What symptoms of mercury tox do you

have? What other toxic metals? Do you already have kids with tox

issues? Have you had miscarriages, stillbirths, infant deaths (SIDS,

etc), trouble getting pregnant? There's a book about those issues by

Ziff, DDS & Sam Ziff. Let me know if you want the exact

title. IMO you should wait until after you've chelated.

> S

>

> --- On Tue 02/03, theycallmesusie1974 <

>

> <tt>

> I am hoping to get my amalgams removed in March/April.

>

> We are hoping to get pregnant after that time......is there a time

> period after amalgam removal to wait for pregnancy?

>

> We may wait for chelation as the access to chelation materials is

> difficult in Africa where we are now, as is importation.....

>

> Thank you,

>

> Susie

>

> </tt>

>

>

> <tt>

> =======================================================

>

February 6, 2004

" Infertility & Birth Defects: Is Mercury From Silver Dental Fillings an

Unsuspected Cause? " by SAm Ziff & Dr. Ziff, copyright by Bio-Probe,

Inc., Orlando, FL. You might also want to get a copy of " Solving the Puzzle of

Mystery Syndromes: Are Your Amalgam Fillings the Missing Piece? " compiled by

of Dental Amaglam Mercury Syndrome (DAMS) of Des Moines (Iowa),

published by Hott Off the Press, Des Moines, IA, 2000. Although I don't agree

with some of the information in this book, it contains case histories of people

who had various diagnoses which improved or disappeared following amalgam

removal. It has at least one by/about someone who had lupus and at least one

about someone who had 6 miscarriages. (It also contains my story.)

S

--- On Thu 02/05, theycallmesusie1974

My husband got his amalgams out, but opted out on chelation for the

time being...., my son is weaning and I am hoping to get my amalgams

out, but if chelation it would only be ALA......I am in Africa, and

there just isn't access to everything.....

I have a pituitary tumor and lupus and all my problems started

hmmmm....some after extensive dental work, but more so after I

received the MMR first year of college, and definitely with the

Hepatitis B I had that next summer (I am a nurse).

WHen I have not been pregnant or nursing before, my pituitary tumor

has gone a little nutty, putting me into premature menopause at the

age 21.....I was kind of trying to avoid being too long without

nursing or pregnancy....plus we would like to have more kids....

Please let me know more,

Susie

>

> Have you done a hair analysis? What symptoms of mercury tox do you

have? What other toxic metals? Do you already have kids with tox

issues? Have you had miscarriages, stillbirths, infant deaths (SIDS,

etc), trouble getting pregnant? There's a book about those issues by

Ziff, DDS & Sam Ziff. Let me know if you want the exact

title. IMO you should wait until after you've chelated.

> S

>

> --- On Tue 02/03, theycallmesusie1974 <

>

> <tt>

> I am hoping to get my amalgams removed in March/April.

>

> We are hoping to get pregnant after that time......is there a time

> period after amalgam removal to wait for pregnancy?

>

> We may wait for chelation as the access to chelation materials is

> difficult in Africa where we are now, as is importation.....

>

> Thank you,

>

> Susie

>

> </tt>

>

>

> <tt>

> =======================================================

>

February 11, 2004

800 is not at all too high, it is perfectly fine. You should aim for

800+ to live a good life.

1712 on the other hand, is above the normal range. Do you put the

gel on your arms? Do you put it on the arm that they injected blood

from? If so, that can be the reason it came back so high. Just don't

put any on the arm, or hand that they are going to take blood from

for a week prior and then see the result.

Did you get your estradiol level checked? I recommend you do, if it

is high it will take away the benefits of high level of

testosterone. You can also get your free testosterone checked to

make sure it is high enough as well. 1712 is too high, so if that is

where you are at on a constant basis from your current dose, then

your doc is not out of line lowering it. However, you should get

another test, avoid that arm ,and give it a little time after your

last application of gel and see where it is at again.

800-950 is a good range to aim for. Also get that estradiol level

checked.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> Hello, I've been lurking for six months now, trying to understand

> what you guys are saying.

> I'm 53 years old, I'm a Viet nam vet with PTSD. I was suffering

from

> depression and the DR. had me on anti-depressants. The meds made

me

> feel worse so I finally found a DR. that recommended TRT. I

started

> out on androgel and now on testim. After a few months I began to

> feel better and was able to stop taking the anti-depressants. I

have

> been reading your comments and I've tried to get blood work for

PSA

> and testosterone levels. In the last 12 months, I've went to have

my

> PSA and testosterone checked only to get test results back with NO

> numbers on two of my test. I don't know if the test came back this

> way or the nurse forgot to record them. I went back to the Dr. and

> informed him of this and he didn't seem concerned. After the

second

> test came back the same way I changed DR. My next to last

> testosterone level was a little over 800 and this DR. told me I

had

> to take less testim. I'm only taking 50mg (1 tube) per day.

> My last test results in Jan.04 my testosterone level was 1712 H

> ng/DL. Question is, could this be correct?

> The DR. wrote across the test, THIS IS TOO HIGH! I know when I go

> back next week he will reduce medicine again. I've tried to talk

to

> this DR. about some of the things I've learned from this site but

all

> I get is, My levels ( Testosterone) is too high!. What do you guys

> think?

February 12, 2004

armyguy,

I may have put the testim on my arm the day of the test, I can't

remember. I was putting it on my arms some days and on my nuts some

days.

No, I did not get my estradiol checked but I will the next time I go

to the Dr.

Yes, Phil I did apply the testim before the test. No more an an hour

before.

Thanks

February 12, 2004

Retake the test, avoid puttin it on that arm/hand for at least a few

days before, get tested at least 12 hours after putting it on, then

see where it is at.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> armyguy,

>

> I may have put the testim on my arm the day of the test, I can't

> remember. I was putting it on my arms some days and on my nuts

some

> days.

> No, I did not get my estradiol checked but I will the next time I

go

> to the Dr.

>

> Yes, Phil I did apply the testim before the test. No more an an

hour

> before.

> Thanks

February 18, 2004

You dont show acceptable ranges for each measure. However, assuming

its the normal ranges you are super duper low on your T level!! Don't

believe doctors on this in general, they really have no clue. A 27

year old like yourself should have total T somewhere in the 600

range. The " average " T level is over the entire male population which

includes older guys AND guys who have problems with ED!!! Bottom line

is you have a problem, find a doctor who can help...It took me 7

doctors before I found one that helps. It also helped getting the

book " The Testosterone Syndrome " By Shippen. I showed that book to my

current doctor and he agreed with it. Read it, you will understand

better. Good Luck

> Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to respond,

> that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

>

> About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

they

> were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> Estradiol 20

> Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

>

> Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

>

> The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had slight

> gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

abnormalities

> that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the levels

> were normal.

>

> Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see 2

> separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis). One

of

> the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

they

> are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> research to find answers, but am still confused.

>

> I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because for

> about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I get

> an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

now

> I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

>

> Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

>

> If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> production?

>

> Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

>

> Any feedback would be appreciated!

>

February 18, 2004

> About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and they

> were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> Estradiol 20

> Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

>

> Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

What were the normal ranges? Different labs have different ranges.

What time of day was the blood drawn? T levels vary throughout the

day. Did you have the blood drawn early in the day, like 6am?

> The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had slight

> gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone abnormalities

> that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the levels

> were normal.

I had gynecomastia and depression and I went on testosterone

replacement 9 years ago, but my T level was lower than yours. I had

plastic surgery to reduce my breasts even. Enlarged breasts can be

due to either a low T level, or a T/E ratio that falls below about

10:1. There's allot of disagreement about what " normal " is, and many

doctors don't know anything about hormone imbalances. My problem was

due to insufficient production of LH from my pituitary.

>

> Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see 2

> separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis). One of

> the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says they

> are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> research to find answers, but am still confused.

Welcome to the club!

> I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because for

> about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I get

> an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But now

> I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

>

> Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

They sound low to me.

>

> If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> production?

Unfortunately, taking testosterone will shut off sperm production and

make your testicles shrink. You need to find out what your LH and FSH

levels are, and you may need an endocrinologist for this, because you

need to know if you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. Was you

sperm count normal? High? Low?

> Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

Because most of them don't know very much about this. It may take you

awhile to find someone who's both knowledgeable and sympathetic.

Jim

February 18, 2004

Thanks for the response. I will have to order that book today. Sounds

like I need to find a better doc. The funny thing is that I saw an

endocrinologist when I did the blood work, but they never said

anything to me. Will insurance plans usually cover going to the doc

for this?

Thanks

> > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to respond,

> > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> >

> > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

> they

> > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > Estradiol 20

> > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> >

> > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> >

> > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

slight

> > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> abnormalities

> > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

levels

> > were normal.

> >

> > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see

2

> > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

One

> of

> > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

> they

> > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> >

> > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because

for

> > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I

get

> > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

> now

> > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> >

> > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> >

> > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > production?

> >

> > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> >

> > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> >

February 18, 2004

The reference ranges were as follows (listed next to mine):

> > Estradiol 20 (reference: <54)

> > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL (reference: 2.1-17.7)

> > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL (reference: 241-827)

> > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL (reference: 5-21)

> > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) % (reference: 1-2.70)

> >

> > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL (reference: 0.23-3.07)

> > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL (reference: 0.58-1.64)

I can't seem to recall what time of day I had the blood drawn. I

think in the morning, but it was over a year and a half ago. I had to

do 2 semen analysis and the sperm count was low for the first. But

the doc told me to stop using the hot tub and redo it in 2 months. I

just did the second and it was much higher:

Sperm Count/mL 166.00 million (normal > 20)

Total Sperm Count 282.20 million (normal > 60)

Don't know why there is such a huge difference, except maybe because

of stopping hot tub use or taking a male fertility supplement. Would

the higher # mean that the T levels are actually okay? I still feel

like there is a problem.

I guess I just need to find a better doc that can understand. It is

hard to know what to schedule the appt. for over the phone and

whether to go to a primary care doc first or straight to the

endocrinologist.

Thanks...

>

> > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

they

> > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > Estradiol 20

> > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> >

> > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

>

> What were the normal ranges? Different labs have different ranges.

> What time of day was the blood drawn? T levels vary throughout the

> day. Did you have the blood drawn early in the day, like 6am?

>

> > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

slight

> > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

abnormalities

> > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

levels

> > were normal.

>

> I had gynecomastia and depression and I went on testosterone

> replacement 9 years ago, but my T level was lower than yours. I had

> plastic surgery to reduce my breasts even. Enlarged breasts can be

> due to either a low T level, or a T/E ratio that falls below about

> 10:1. There's allot of disagreement about what " normal " is, and

many

> doctors don't know anything about hormone imbalances. My problem was

> due to insufficient production of LH from my pituitary.

> >

> > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see

2

> > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

One of

> > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

they

> > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> > research to find answers, but am still confused.

>

> Welcome to the club!

>

> > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because

for

> > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I

get

> > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

now

> > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> >

> > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

>

> They sound low to me.

> >

> > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > production?

>

> Unfortunately, taking testosterone will shut off sperm production

and

> make your testicles shrink. You need to find out what your LH and

FSH

> levels are, and you may need an endocrinologist for this, because

you

> need to know if you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. Was you

> sperm count normal? High? Low?

>

> > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

>

> Because most of them don't know very much about this. It may take

you

> awhile to find someone who's both knowledgeable and sympathetic.

> Jim

February 18, 2004

Your Total T is very low for your age, you do have hypogonadism.

Do you take propecia? If so, that is the cause of your problem.

You have a couple of options to go about solving it.

1) Take HCG at low dosages - between 250 and 1000 iu 3 days a week.

That will increase your natural testosterone production (and your

sperm production), as long as your hypo is secondary not primary.

You need to get your LH and FSH levels checked to confirm that it is

secondary.

2) Go on testosterone replacement. This will stop your natural

production completely, but you can replace to a natural and high

level. At 27, you will feel best at 800+. This will eventually shut

down your sperm production. You can get sperm frozen beforehand and

use that for fertility, or you can adopt.

3) Don't do any drugs, just exercise, take vitamins (zinc is most

important), and eat well. This may help slightly. Chances of it

raising your T level to healthy levels are not too good though.

First thing you should do is buy a copy of " the Testosterone

Syndrome " by Eugene Shippen from Amazon or another bookstore. This

is an informative book which will help you understand why t is

important, what can go wrong and different approaches to solving it.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to respond,

> that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

>

> About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

they

> were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> Estradiol 20

> Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

>

> Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

>

> The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

slight

> gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

abnormalities

> that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

levels

> were normal.

>

> Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see 2

> separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis). One

of

> the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

they

> are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> research to find answers, but am still confused.

>

> I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because

for

> about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I

get

> an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

now

> I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

>

> Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

>

> If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> production?

>

> Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

>

> Any feedback would be appreciated!

>

February 18, 2004

The biggest challenge is finding a good doctor to deal with this

stuff, it is no easy task.

Most endos are not supportive of T replacement therapy to proper

levels. They are often very ignorant on the subject all together and

generally classify Shippen's book as " hog wash " . So that is

sometimes easier said than done. A good way to find a doctor is to

call a pharmacy and ask which doctor's are prescribing Androgel. Or

even better, to call a compounding pharmacy and find out which

doctor's are prescribing compounded Testosterone gel to men and go

see one of them.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> >

> > > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked

and

> they

> > > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > > Estradiol 20

> > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> > >

> > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> >

> > What were the normal ranges? Different labs have different

ranges.

> > What time of day was the blood drawn? T levels vary throughout

the

> > day. Did you have the blood drawn early in the day, like 6am?

> >

> > > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

> slight

> > > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> abnormalities

> > > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

> levels

> > > were normal.

> >

> > I had gynecomastia and depression and I went on testosterone

> > replacement 9 years ago, but my T level was lower than yours. I

had

> > plastic surgery to reduce my breasts even. Enlarged breasts can

be

> > due to either a low T level, or a T/E ratio that falls below

about

> > 10:1. There's allot of disagreement about what " normal " is, and

> many

> > doctors don't know anything about hormone imbalances. My problem

was

> > due to insufficient production of LH from my pituitary.

> > >

> > > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to

see

> 2

> > > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

> One of

> > > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other

says

> they

> > > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my

own

> > > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> >

> > Welcome to the club!

> >

> > > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism

because

> for

> > > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When

I

> get

> > > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless

constantly

> > > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or

just

> > > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years.

But

> now

> > > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I

have

> > > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I

also

> > > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom

I

> > > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> > >

> > > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> >

> > They sound low to me.

> > >

> > > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > > production?

> >

> > Unfortunately, taking testosterone will shut off sperm

production

> and

> > make your testicles shrink. You need to find out what your LH

and

> FSH

> > levels are, and you may need an endocrinologist for this,

because

> you

> > need to know if you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. Was

you

> > sperm count normal? High? Low?

> >

> > > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> >

> > Because most of them don't know very much about this. It may

take

> you

> > awhile to find someone who's both knowledgeable and sympathetic.

> > Jim

February 18, 2004

Thanks for the info. I got an appt with a doc for tomorrow so

hopefully he will be helpful. One more question. I did take Propecia

a few years ago for abt 2 years. However, I stopped taking it about 2

to 4 months before I had my T tested. How long does it take for T

levels to go back to normal after taking Propecia? To be honest with

you, I experienced low libido side effects when taking the Propecia.

When I stopped taking it, libido got better, but never back to how it

was before taking the Propecia.

> > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to respond,

> > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> >

> > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

> they

> > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > Estradiol 20

> > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> >

> > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> >

> > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

> slight

> > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> abnormalities

> > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

> levels

> > were normal.

> >

> > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see

2

> > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

One

> of

> > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

> they

> > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> >

> > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because

> for

> > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I

> get

> > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

> now

> > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> >

> > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> >

> > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > production?

> >

> > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> >

> > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> >

February 18, 2004

Hey , welcome aboard! Can you post the reference ranges for you

tests (the range that the lab uses to determine what is " normal " )?

Based upon my understanding of typical lab ranges it looks like your

Free Test is low. Your Total Test is probably considered " low-

normal " .

With respect to treatment, you may want to consider HCG (which mimics

LH), it actually is a fertility drug. However, if you are trying to

have kids, you MAY need to supplement with HMG (which mimics FSH).

HMG is expensive. Going on any TRT will mess up your HPTA axis. It

will " shut down " , in other words your hypothalamus will not be

sending signals your your testes to produce LH or FSH, which

contributues to the creation of testosterone and spermogensis (sp?).

With respect to your docs, there is not a lot of mainstream education

on low testosterone. The reasonable doctor would treat your symptoms

not merely your numbers. You should also get you FSH and LH tested

to see whether you are secondary or primary hypogonadic.

Good Luck, I am also concerned about fertility as any type of TRT

does interfere with the natural process. If any of your doctors

recommends only Testosterone replacement (androgel, etc) DO NOT

ACCEPT THIS as it will make you infertile (hopefully temporarily).

HCG seems to be the treatment of choice when trying to maintain

fertility. Good Luck

> Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to respond,

> that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

>

> About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

they

> were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> Estradiol 20

> Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

>

> Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

>

> The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had slight

> gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

abnormalities

> that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the levels

> were normal.

>

> Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see 2

> separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis). One

of

> the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

they

> are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> research to find answers, but am still confused.

>

> I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because for

> about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I get

> an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

now

> I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

>

> Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

>

> If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> production?

>

> Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

>

> Any feedback would be appreciated!

>

February 18, 2004

Thanks for the info. I have a doc appt. tomorrow and that will help

with my questions. Hope he is knowledgable. Here are the reference

ranges on my lab printout. However, it seems like I find different

reference ranges everywhere out there.

> > Estradiol 20 (reference: <54)

> > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL (reference: 2.1-17.7)

> > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL (reference: 241-827)

> > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL (reference: 5-21)

> > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) % (reference: 1-2.70)

> >

> > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL (reference: 0.23-3.07)

> > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL (reference: 0.58-1.64)

Hey, do you know if Propecia would cause low T levels, even after

discontinuing it? If so, is there anything out there to document this

that I can possibly show the doc?

> > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to respond,

> > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> >

> > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked and

> they

> > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > Estradiol 20

> > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> >

> > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> >

> > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

slight

> > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> abnormalities

> > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

levels

> > were normal.

> >

> > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to see

2

> > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

One

> of

> > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

> they

> > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my own

> > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> >

> > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because

for

> > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I

get

> > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless constantly

> > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years. But

> now

> > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I have

> > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I also

> > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom I

> > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> >

> > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> >

> > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > production?

> >

> > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> >

> > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> >

February 18, 2004

Obviously, it depends on your plan, but most plans will cover

hypodadism and will cover your endo and blood work. Just make

absolutely sure you stay away from the word " fertility " there will be

no coverage for that.

> > > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find some

> > > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to

respond,

> > > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> > >

> > > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked

and

> > they

> > > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > > Estradiol 20

> > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> > >

> > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> > >

> > > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

> slight

> > > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> > abnormalities

> > > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

> levels

> > > were normal.

> > >

> > > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to

see

> 2

> > > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

> One

> > of

> > > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other says

> > they

> > > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my

own

> > > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> > >

> > > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism because

> for

> > > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When I

> get

> > > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless

constantly

> > > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or just

> > > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years.

But

> > now

> > > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I

have

> > > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I

also

> > > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom

I

> > > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> > >

> > > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> > >

> > > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > > production?

> > >

> > > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> > >

> > > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> > >

February 18, 2004

See, isn't that interesting that just from your age, your t level

and your symptoms alone, I guessed that you took propecia!

That stuff is very very bad PERIOD.

It takes a different amount of time for different people to get back

to normal. It is very possible that you will never get back to

normal. That is the unfortunate truth.

For the best strategies on how to attack propecia induced hypo check:

finasteride_side_effects newsgroup. Unfortunately, no one has

posted that they have had great success yet, I have posted some

strategies that I think will work. Your situation is similar to

bodybuilders who need to restart their hypothalamus. Fixing problem

with HCG and Clomid is the most likely approach to healing.

Taking testosterone will not help towards healing, it will make you

adicted to it. So exhaust all other avenues and hopefully you will

get back to your old self.

Armyguy

> > > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find

some

> > > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to

respond,

> > > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> > >

> > > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked

and

> > they

> > > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > > Estradiol 20

> > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> > >

> > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> > >

> > > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

> > slight

> > > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> > abnormalities

> > > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

> > levels

> > > were normal.

> > >

> > > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to

see

> 2

> > > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

> One

> > of

> > > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other

says

> > they

> > > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my

own

> > > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> > >

> > > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism

because

> > for

> > > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When

I

> > get

> > > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless

constantly

> > > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or

just

> > > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years.

But

> > now

> > > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I

have

> > > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I

also

> > > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom

I

> > > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> > >

> > > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> > >

> > > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > > production?

> > >

> > > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> > >

> > > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> > >

February 18, 2004

The answer is most definitely yes. Unfortunately, virtually no

studies exist to prove this. As far as I know, the only studies that

have been done with propecia, are by Merc, where they say: only 2%

get sexual side effects and if you quit propecia 100% of them get

better. However: They are big liars!!! Just do searches for

propecia, and check out the other group, and look at your own case

and know that there study is a load of crap (excuse the language .

Armyguy

> > > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find

some

> > > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to

respond,

> > > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> > >

> > > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked

and

> > they

> > > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > > Estradiol 20

> > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> > >

> > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> > >

> > > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

> slight

> > > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> > abnormalities

> > > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

> levels

> > > were normal.

> > >

> > > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to

see

> 2

> > > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's endometriosis).

> One

> > of

> > > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other

says

> > they

> > > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my

own

> > > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> > >

> > > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism

because

> for

> > > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When

I

> get

> > > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless

constantly

> > > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or

just

> > > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years.

But

> > now

> > > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I

have

> > > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I

also

> > > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another symptom

I

> > > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> > >

> > > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> > >

> > > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > > production?

> > >

> > > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> > >

> > > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> > >

February 19, 2004

> The reference ranges were as follows (listed next to mine):

> > > Estradiol 20 (reference: <54)

> > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL (reference: 2.1-17.7)

> > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL (reference: 241-827)

> > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL (reference: 5-21)

> > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) % (reference: 1-2.70)

> > >

> > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL (reference: 0.23-3.07)

> > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL (reference: 0.58-1.64)

I think your total and free T are too low, as well as your T4.

> Sperm Count/mL 166.00 million (normal > 20)

> Total Sperm Count 282.20 million (normal > 60)

This would indicate your FSH level is probably OK, but your LH may be

too low, depending on whether you have primary or secondary

hypogonadism. You can have a normal FSH and a low LH level;l that was

my situation.

>

> Don't know why there is such a huge difference, except maybe

because

> of stopping hot tub use or taking a male fertility supplement.

Would

> the higher # mean that the T levels are actually okay?

I doubt it.

> I guess I just need to find a better doc that can understand. It is

> hard to know what to schedule the appt. for over the phone and

> whether to go to a primary care doc first or straight to the

> endocrinologist.

Be sure to ask the endocrinologist if he has patients with

hypogonadism and what he does for them. Some endos don't deal with

hypogonadism

Jim

February 19, 2004

Yeah, I wonder if my levels were low to begin wiht and the Propecia

made it worse. I went to a new doc today. Showed him my lab results

from a year and a half ago with the total T at 343, etc. He said that

it was sitll in the normal range, just on the low end. But then I

showed him a print-out that broke levels down by age group and that I

was below the low for my age group. So he ordered a retest to see

what the levels are now. He says he can put me on TRT in a mild dose

if it is low, but I don't really want to go on that if it will shut

off sperm production. I mentioned that I read somethign about taking

Clomid and HCG for a few weeks, but he said he hadn't heard of that

before. Also said he hadn't heard of people having low T after

stopping Propecia. I guess I will have to print out some stuff to

show him when I go back next week.

Anyways, I guess tomorrow I get to go do the lab work. Does it matter

if I go in the morning? The doc said it didn't matter, but I heard

the morning was the best time to do it since it is highest then.

BTW, you seem very knowledgable about this stuff. Where did you learn

so much about it?

Thanks...

> > > > Hi, I'm new to the group and wanted to see if I could find

> some

> > > > answers from anyone out there. If anyone has a minute to

> respond,

> > > > that would be appreciated!! Here is my situation:

> > > >

> > > > About a year and a half ago I had my horomone levels checked

> and

> > > they

> > > > were as follows (I'm 27 yrs. old):

> > > > Estradiol 20

> > > > Prolactin 14.1 ng/mL

> > > > Total Testosterone 343 ng/dL

> > > > Free Testosterone 10.08 ng/dL

> > > > Percent free testosterone 2.94 (H) %

> > > >

> > > > Thyroid Studies: (not sure what this is?)

> > > > TSH 1.35 uIU/mL

> > > > Free T4 0.59 ng/dL

> > > >

> > > > The reason that the doc checked the levels was because I had

> > > slight

> > > > gynecomastia and they wanted to check for any horomone

> > > abnormalities

> > > > that might have contributed to this. I was told that all the

> > > levels

> > > > were normal.

> > > >

> > > > Now, a year and a half later I recently went with my wife to

> see

> > 2

> > > > separate infertilty docs (because of my wife's

endometriosis).

> > One

> > > of

> > > > the docs says my testosterone levels are low and the other

> says

> > > they

> > > > are fine. This confused me and so I started doing some of my

> own

> > > > research to find answers, but am still confused.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like I have some of the symptoms of hypogonadism

> because

> > > for

> > > > about the past year, my sex drive has not been so great. When

> I

> > > get

> > > > an erection, it is soft and often will not stay unless

> constantly

> > > > stimulated. I figured that this was maybe due to stress or

> just

> > > > because I was getting a little older past the teenage years.

> But

> > > now

> > > > I wonder if it is related to my testosterone levels. Also, I

> have

> > > > suffered from mild to medium depression for some time now. I

> also

> > > > noticed this is a symptom of low testosterone. Another

symptom

> I

> > > > noted is that I do not have much body hair. My questions are:

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone know if my horomone levels are considered low?

> > > >

> > > > If so, are there safe treatments that wouldn't affect sperm

> > > > production?

> > > >

> > > > Why are my docs saying 2 separate things?

> > > >

> > > > Any feedback would be appreciated!

> > > >

February 20, 2004

>He says he can put me on TRT in a mild dose

>if it is low,

I dont know what mild dose would be and I would be cautious. Docs who are

reluctant to fully bring your T up often do more harm than good. If you just

take a little bit of T your testicles will shut down the production of T by

the same amount as the external T and it will get you nowhere. You will feel

better for a few weeks because the small amount of T will go up on top of

your natural T production and you will actually get more, after a while

though your natural production will shut down. Over time a eunich and a man

with low T need the same amount of T to come up to a good level. The small

amount of natural T goes away. There is no such thing as just a little T to

help you come up a few notches. It doesnt work that way. There is one way

and one way only through this and that is to test frequently as you go

along. It will take a few months to even out.

>Anyways, I guess tomorrow I get to go do the lab work. Does it matter

>if I go in the morning? The doc said it didn't matter, but I heard

>the morning was the best time to do it since it is highest then.

Yes, it makes a difference and morning is best. A man who has a reading of

400 in the morning is low. If he has a reading of 400 in the afternoon he

probably is not all that low because it might very well be half of what he

had in the morning. If he only has 400 in the morning he will be very low

later in the day. T is released late at night or early morning which is when

your highest level will be. After that it declines all day, for the most

part. Exercise and a couple things might alter it a little.

Winter

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