RE: yogurt

[Guest guest]

Oh wow Carol,

I didn't know we could work it this way. Thank you so much for the tip and

book reference. I have a very long way to go, but I'll get there with the

help of all of you professionals :-)

This is exciting and it really shed a lot of lite on the situation for me!

Tommie

_____

Tommie - a rule of thumb, which is just a starting point and certainly

not true for everyone, is that each gram of carbohydrate will raise your

blood sugar by five points. So if you start with a bg of 165 and eat 12

grams of carbohydrate you will raise your bg 60 points, for an ending

number of 165+60 = 225. Then you need to know how many points each unit

of insulin will bring the bg back down. If that number is 20 points,

then to get to a bg of 100 you would need to dose 3 units just for the

12 carbs and another 3.25 units to correct the original 165. If each

unit of insulin brings your bg down by 10 points you'd have to double

the dose. There's a book called " Using Insulin " recommended to me by

someone on this list which is very good for starting points, and

discusses how to figure dosing for basal and for meals. It's based on

your weight and some other factors, and of course those results need to

be tested and tested again in order to arrive at an individual dosing

regimen. I got it at Amazon.com.

CarolR

CarolR

[Guest guest]

When I was working with Ron I found it helpful to split up his loooong

paragraphs into smaller units. Made it a little easier to understand.

And he's very good about clarifying if you don't understand what he's

saying. (Sometimes I'd state the clarification question and ask for a

straight " yes " or " no " -- and he'd always give it.)

Or...if you have a partner who's an engineer, he(or she) could help

out, smile.

Vicki

Re: yogurt

>

> I think you're doing fine. I couldn't even read Ron's stuff until I

> had

> a way better handle on the insulin thing. I had to read three books

> before I even felt educated enough to read HIS stuff.

>

> CarolR

>

> Tommie wrote:

>> Carol,

>> I haven't even worked with Ron yet.

>

[Guest guest]

I use plain yogurt as a substitute for sour cream all the time & have

for years. I find it very acceptable. You can do this in recipes or

just as toppings.

Of course my very favorite way to enjoy it is a dessert I call pineapple

cream. I put about 2 tbs of crushed fresh pineapple in a cup of plain

ff yogurt & add a few flaked almonds, 1 tbs milled flax seed, dash of

cinnamon & some liquid Splenda. Oh yummmmm! I only have this if my

bg's have been running nicely under 100 tho!

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

2/05:143 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the site Vicki. Yes it sounds like it wouldn't be good. I

might get brave and try a tbls or so in some yogurt and test to see how I do

with it. But that's later on when I get the foods that are needed in order.

Yogurt and Grape Nuts falls under treats for me!

Tommie

_____

For the answer to your question about whether Grape Nuts were okay, I

went to the USDA website to check it out and surprisingly, it wasn't

there. However, I searched a little further and found this website:

http://www.carbohydrate-guide.com/

According to them, 1 ounce of Grape Nuts -- which is 1/4 cup -- has 23

carbs. So I would say they're not very good for diabetics,

OTOH...you could try it for yourself.

Check your BG before eating...then eat a measured amount with a measured

amount of milk. Test an hour and 2 hours later. Then you'll know how

it affects YOU.

Vicki

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Carol,

There is so much to learn, I want to take it all in at once and run with it.

But that just doesn't work. If I were only a robot, I could do that!!

Tommie

_____

* I think you're doing fine. I couldn't even read Ron's stuff until

I had

a way better handle on the insulin thing. I had to read three books

before I even felt educated enough to read HIS stuff.

CarolR

Tommie wrote:

> Carol,

> I haven't even worked with Ron yet.

..

[Guest guest]

I buy the greek full fat yogurt and mix davinci syrups into it, splenda, and

usually my flaxmeal/bran mixture too. But I also buy the hood and La yogurt

low carb yogurts for quick and easy food. They aren't great, but once I mix

in the flax/bran, they improve. With the greek stuff, I invariably store it on

its side so the liquid can be poured off before I use it.

Stacey

In a message dated 2/23/05 5:39:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jlnhjm@... writes:

>

>Yogurt, imnho, should always be bought plain. And free of additives.

>Mix in your own condiments. I like to put a dab of yogurt on top of

>small pieces of fruit and then put cinnamon on top of, or mixed into the

>yogurt. Maybe some nutmeg too.

>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

I buy the greek full fat yogurt and mix davinci syrups into it, splenda, and

usually my flaxmeal/bran mixture too. But I also buy the hood and La yogurt

low carb yogurts for quick and easy food. They aren't great, but once I mix

in the flax/bran, they improve. With the greek stuff, I invariably store it on

its side so the liquid can be poured off before I use it.

Stacey

In a message dated 2/23/05 5:39:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jlnhjm@... writes:

>

>Yogurt, imnho, should always be bought plain. And free of additives.

>Mix in your own condiments. I like to put a dab of yogurt on top of

>small pieces of fruit and then put cinnamon on top of, or mixed into the

>yogurt. Maybe some nutmeg too.

>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/24/05 9:27:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, whimsy2@...

writes:

>

>If it was a matter of losing your sight or not eating plain

>yogurt...would the choice become easier?

>>>>>>>.

This is a bit dire, don't you think?

Tommie was eating a sugar free yogurt with 10-12 grams of carbs per serving.

Hood's carb control yogurt has 8 grams of carbs per serving. Full fat greek

yogurt has 8 grams of carbs per serving (without factoring in any of the

lactic acid calculations).

Are those 4 or so grams of carbs going to cause one to lose a limg or

eyesight? Good heavens no.

Low carb is one way to deal with diabetes. Moderated carb - around 100-150

grams per day - is another. Some do neither and eat what they want, injecting

insulin to deal with the counted carbs. It really doesn't matter which way

you go so long as your BG is where you want it to be for good control.

Sure, Bernstein talks about the law of small numbers - and he makes a good

point - by keeping the carb count low, even if you figure wrong, the amount

you're wrong by will be small so won't create large swings in BG. There is

truth

in that. But if you know well how you react to various foods, and you know

how to dose correctly, you don't need to use numbers as small as Bernstein's.

When trying to gain control, it makes sense to limit carbs so as to get to a

point where you know what affects your BG and by how much, but to scare

someone by saying that 4 grams of carbs means lost eyesight or limbs isn't

accurate.

Not all will agree with me. Some are quite devoted to the low carb way of

eating. More power to you, if it works for you. But it isn't the only way to

go.

YMMV

Stacey

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/24/05 2:29:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, whimsy2@...

writes:

>

>Boy, I wish there was a formula that worked like that for type 1s :-(

>>>>>

Most books on insulin use are geared to type 1s, not type 2s. Carol's

figures may apply to her, but they don't necessarily apply to anyone else. Some

people who eat 5 grams of carbs will see a very big BG rise, others a very small

one. No calculations about insulin universally apply to anyone, and each

person needs to figure these calculations out for themselves, as the books

advise.

There's the insulin to carb ratio, the insulin sensitivity factor, the rise

per gram of carb amount, and then there is the fact that at different times of

day and at different starting BGs, these ratios and factors and amounts may

well be different.

It's a myth that an insulin using type 2 has an easier time controlling BG

than an insulin dependent type 1. The opposite is probably true. Since a type

1 is producing no insulin, if all the ratios are figured out properly for the

various times of day and for the various foods, it should be pretty easy to

dose insulin. A type 2 using insulin who still has some pancreas function,

won't know when that pancreas might kick in and much up the works.

Then, the real problem with diabetes is that even though something worked the

same way for 10 different days, on the eleventh day, it might not work that

way. That applies equally to type 1 and type 2 diabetics.

I'd think, Vicki, that you would already know all the numbers and ratios and

factors for your insulin dosing - since it's really the only way to achieve

tight control with insulin. Guessing means lots more errors in dose, after

all... :-)

Stacey

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/25/05 11:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

>

>Stacey, is it you who is quoted in the dieting article in Diabetes Health?

>>>>>>>.

I believe it is. I was interviewed at length, but haven't seen the article

yet. Is it online?

Stacey

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/25/05 11:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

>

>

>Stacey, is it you who is quoted in the dieting article in Diabetes Health?

>>>>>>

I haven't recieved the issue with the story in it yet, I don't think.... I

also wrote them letter about a silly article they did on dieting a month or so

ago and they said they'd print it.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

Well...yes...you're quite right. I was really just trying to make a

point, knowing that someone out there (like you, Stacey, smile) would

modify it.

There are many ways to control diabetes -- but control we must. And for

newbies, it's very important to let them know that this IS what must be

done if they want to avoid the dreaded complications of poorly

controlled diabetes.

Far too many doctors assume that A1Cs around 7 are " just fine " and

accept that complications are inevitable. And they convey this to their

diabetic patients.

This is patently NOT true. Complications WILL eventually accrue with

A1Cs of 7 and above. However, very few doctors have even ever seen

motivated diabetics who are willing to put the time and effort into

gaining nondiabetic numbers and therefore AVOID those complications.

So if I exaggerate a little (smile) it's all to the service of

counteracting those negative expectations.

Vicki

Re: yogurt

>

> In a message dated 2/24/05 9:27:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> whimsy2@...

> writes:

>>

>>If it was a matter of losing your sight or not eating plain

>>yogurt...would the choice become easier?

>>>>>>>>.

>

> This is a bit dire, don't you think?

>

> Tommie was eating a sugar free yogurt with 10-12 grams of carbs per

> serving.

> Hood's carb control yogurt has 8 grams of carbs per serving. Full fat

> greek

> yogurt has 8 grams of carbs per serving (without factoring in any of

> the

> lactic acid calculations).

>

> Are those 4 or so grams of carbs going to cause one to lose a limg or

> eyesight? Good heavens no.

>

> Low carb is one way to deal with diabetes. Moderated carb - around

> 100-150

> grams per day - is another. Some do neither and eat what they want,

> injecting

> insulin to deal with the counted carbs. It really doesn't matter

> which way

> you go so long as your BG is where you want it to be for good control.

>

> Sure, Bernstein talks about the law of small numbers - and he makes a

> good

> point - by keeping the carb count low, even if you figure wrong, the

> amount

> you're wrong by will be small so won't create large swings in BG.

> There is truth

> in that. But if you know well how you react to various foods, and you

> know

> how to dose correctly, you don't need to use numbers as small as

> Bernstein's.

>

> When trying to gain control, it makes sense to limit carbs so as to

> get to a

> point where you know what affects your BG and by how much, but to

> scare

> someone by saying that 4 grams of carbs means lost eyesight or limbs

> isn't accurate.

>

> Not all will agree with me. Some are quite devoted to the low carb

> way of

> eating. More power to you, if it works for you. But it isn't the

> only way to

> go.

>

> YMMV

>

> Stacey

>

[Guest guest]

> I use plain yogurt as a substitute for sour cream all the time & have

> for years. I find it very acceptable. You can do this in recipes or

> just as toppings.

Sometimes when I bake salmon, I mix plain yogurt (I use fat-free, it

works fine) with dill seed and spread it on the salmon when it's just

about done, then return to the oven for about four minutes. It's

really good.

May

[Guest guest]

> Cottage

> cheese raises by BG

Try rinsing the cottage cheese in a colander and see if you can eat it then.

A lot of the lactose is in the liquid.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> How do you make your own yogurt?

There are lots of ways. One recipe is in the Four Corners Diet book. You can

Look Inside the book on Amazon.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> Gretchen: I wonder if one could use the CarbDown dairy drink to make

> yogurt?

I don't see much point as the bacteria eat most of the milk sugar if you let

it ferment long enough, and the CC milk is more expensive and contains more

fake foods. But if you still want to use it, yes, you can.

BTW, kefir usually has even fewer carbs than yogurt. Most commercial yogurt

producers stop the fermentation early so it will be sweeter. But sweeter is

not what we want.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Stacey, is it you who is quoted in the dieting article in Diabetes Health?

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

<Snip> Mostly I make my own yogurt. Much cheaper this way.

Gretchen

-----------------------

Tried this a while back and it was a complete flop

What " MILK " do you start out with Gretchen???

CJ

[Guest guest]

> What " MILK " do you start out with Gretchen???

Regular, 1%, or 2%.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> I believe it is. I was interviewed at length, but haven't seen the

article

> yet. Is it online?

Dunno. She leads the article with your comments.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

I you were a robot, you wouldn't have diabetes, LOL. At least I've

never heard of a diabetic robot. Sue

> There is so much to learn, I want to take it all in at once and run

> with it.

> But that just doesn't work. If I were only a robot, I could do that!!

[Guest guest]

LOL Sue,

Well ok, if I had a computer chip in my brain!! But the robot sounds better

actually because there would be no diabetes :-)

Tommie

_____

I you were a robot, you wouldn't have diabetes, LOL. At least I've

never heard of a diabetic robot. Sue

> There is so much to learn, I want to take it all in at once and run

> with it.

> But that just doesn't work. If I were only a robot, I could do that!!

[Guest guest]

I agree completely, Cappie!! The texture is terrible!! I was pretty

excited to get some nice flavored yogurt, but YUCK!!

Robin G.

cappie@... wrote:

> Has anyone else tried the CarbDown yogurt or smoothies?

>

> I had tried the smoothie a while back & found it so disgusting that I

> threw it out.

>

> Today I bought a container of blueberry yogurt. Same thing--the taste

> is ok but the texture is both slimey & gummy & chalky to me. I ate

> about 2 spoonsful & out it went.

>

>

> cappie

> Greater Boston Area

[Guest guest]

Hey when i get my new leg i will have a laotop computer for my knee.they

build a compter right into the knee course they dont come cheap 20 grand to

buy it then 1 grand evry 2 years for reprograniong

>

>Reply-To: diabetes_int

>To: <diabetes_int >

>Subject: RE: yogurt

>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:07:46 -0600

>

[Guest guest]

Alyne wrote:

Gretchen's post about yougurt with cucumber and garlic

reminded me of my grandfather's favorite

lunch--cottage cheese, with lots of cut up fresh

veggies and a dollop of sour cream on top. Cottage

cheese raises by BG but the Greek FAGE nonfat yogurt

is delicious and very thick. I think I'll try his

lunch subbing it for cottage cheese and sour cream. I

also use the FAGE yougurt for breakfast and dessert -

with lots of cinnamon and some splenda or with chopped

nuts and splenda. Very filling--emotionally as well

as physically.

=====

Alyne T2, Dx 8-03, D & E and Metformin

I have never seen FAGE yogurt. Of course I am in the back woods of NH, but I

used to live in Massachusetts and don't remember seeing it there either. Is that

a brand name or a type of yogurt?

Barb in NH