Re: new diabetic with questions

[Guest guest]

Now, there's a question for folks: How much insulin are you *willing* to take?

Where do

many of you draw the " line " between " OK, I'm not going to eat ANY carbs, and

take very

little insulin. " And " Dang it, I'm eating toast every morning, and I'll shoot

for whatever I

want! " ?

Having figured out the math, I know I *CAN* have my muffins, pancakes, etc - but

I also

know I'm going to shoot around 13-15U of Humalog if I do! On the upswing, I'm

likely not

to need it at all, or if I do, only 2 U or so later in the day.

SulaBlue

My somewhat arbitrary rule is that I eat no more carbs

> in a meal than 5 units of Novolog will cover.

>

>

> ---

> De Armond

> See my website for my current email address

> http://www.johngsbbq.com

> Cleveland, Occupied TN

[Guest guest]

Well, I'll admit, I'm one of 'em.

Breakfast without toast just doesn't seem like breakfast to me so after

4 years without, I decided, heck with it, I'm taking insulin, I can do

it.

I do eat a lower carb bread, though -- a slice of rye, 13 carbs. And

being type 1, I don't have to take a large amount of insulin as

insulin-resistant type 2s might.

Vicki

Re: new diabetic with questions

> Now, there's a question for folks: How much insulin are you *willing*

> to take? Where do

> many of you draw the " line " between " OK, I'm not going to eat ANY

> carbs, and take very

> little insulin. " And " Dang it, I'm eating toast every morning, and

> I'll shoot for whatever I

> want! " ?

>

> Having figured out the math, I know I *CAN* have my muffins, pancakes,

> etc - but I also

> know I'm going to shoot around 13-15U of Humalog if I do! On the

> upswing, I'm likely not

> to need it at all, or if I do, only 2 U or so later in the day.

>

> SulaBlue

>

>

>

> My somewhat arbitrary rule is that I eat no more carbs

>> in a meal than 5 units of Novolog will cover.

>>

>>

>> ---

>> De Armond

>> See my website for my current email address

>> http://www.johngsbbq.com

>> Cleveland, Occupied TN

>

[Guest guest]

Mike have you been listenting to what we have all said? Grains are a

fast carb. Many diabetics are very sensitive to grain carbs. So the

cause of your breakfast rise was the oat grais & bread.

Try the same testing tomorrow with eggs & some kind of meat.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag,

low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Ouch.

The only positive part about this that I can see is that *IF* you

measured all this out carefully, and you had 60g of carbs for

breakfast (I think that's what you'd said you're supposed to eat?)

then your morning insulin resistance isn't too terribly bad.

Still - I'd have keeled over with a heart attack if I saw 317 on my

meter. Heck, I wasn't even sure my meter *WENT* that high. I

thought they cut out and went 'Error' at 300? At what point do the

home meters freak out and 'error' and report only HIGH?

SulaBlue

> Ok Alan, I'll check one hour after I eat, which scares me even

more.

>

> Morning fast taken at 6am: 247

>

> Breakfast: One bowl of oats with Splenda, piece of wheat toast,

bottle of

> watter.

> Checked one hour later, 317

>

> That's it so far.

>

> Mike

[Guest guest]

Altho as a beginner, testing all your foods, it is better to test at 1

hr & then again at 2 hrs in order to find when you peak, you CAN use a

compromise of 1 1/2 hrs which will save 3 test strips a day. Up to you

but the 2 tests is better as a beginner.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag,

low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

If you HAD been running in the 500s, I think you would have been very

gratefull that you had gotten DOWN to only 317.

--- In diabetes_int , " SulaBlue " <sulablue2001@y...>

> Still - I'd have keeled over with a heart attack if I saw 317 on my

> meter. Heck, I wasn't even sure my meter *WENT* that high. I

> thought they cut out and went 'Error' at 300? At what point do the

> home meters freak out and 'error' and report only HIGH?

>

> SulaBlue

[Guest guest]

Of course 317 is bad. But exactly what is bad about wheat toast and oats? I

don't see how that could raise my blood surgar. If those things are bad,

could you give me suggestions? I'm getting very light help from my doctor

and from the diabetic clinic. My doctor said 256 " wasn't bad " the other

day. If I'm doing something wrong, I don't know what it is.

Mike

RE: Re: new diabetic with questions

Just a personal observation, but I think I would give up the oats and the

wheat toast. Honestly if I saw a 317 on my meter, I think I would have a

heart attack. Mike, I hope you get this under control QUICK.

[Guest guest]

My meter has hit 565 when I was first diagnosed.

Re: new diabetic with questions

Ouch.

The only positive part about this that I can see is that *IF* you

measured all this out carefully, and you had 60g of carbs for

breakfast (I think that's what you'd said you're supposed to eat?)

then your morning insulin resistance isn't too terribly bad.

Still - I'd have keeled over with a heart attack if I saw 317 on my

meter. Heck, I wasn't even sure my meter *WENT* that high. I

thought they cut out and went 'Error' at 300? At what point do the

home meters freak out and 'error' and report only HIGH?

SulaBlue

[Guest guest]

At 12:36 PM 7/8/05, Mike Brown wrote:

>Of course 317 is bad. But exactly what is bad about wheat toast and oats? I

>don't see how that could raise my blood surgar.

Mike. Do you read the messages here? That's a serious question. Maybe you

just skim through them without really paying attention? Maybe high blood

sugar is making you forgetful? I'm asking because there have been dozens

of messages here that have said, with variations, " carbs are bad " , " grains

are carbs " . There have been many messages sending you to website pages

that LIST high-carb foods and explain about them and diabetes. Have you

gone to any of those websites?

I don't care that someone says " oh, maybe you can eat grains (or potatoes

or beans or rice or pasta or whatever it is), at first, IN MY OPINION, you

should cut out all of that stuff and go very low-carb initially. No bread

products / grains (corn is a grain) or potatoes or other starchy veggies

(peas, dry beans, winter squash, cooked carrots, etc.). Go very easy on

fruit (half cup of berries would probably be okay). Of course eliminate

sugar, honey, molasses, etc.

I know some folks here can eat limited amounts of some of the vegetables I

listed, and some beans and rice but they have their BG's under control.

They understand how much they can eat of which food. I *think* most of them

found that out after they got more or less under control, BG-wise.

sky

Old age comes at such a bad time.

http://www.skydancers.com

http://www.skydor.com

[Guest guest]

> Of course 317 is bad. But exactly what is bad about wheat toast

and oats? I

> don't see how that could raise my blood surgar. If those things

are bad,

> could you give me suggestions? I'm getting very light help from

my doctor

> and from the diabetic clinic. My doctor said 256 " wasn't bad "

the other

> day. If I'm doing something wrong, I don't know what it is.

>

> Mike

Mike, are you reading the labels on your food? Do you see where

it says " Carbohydrates " on the label? How many are there per

slice in your wheat toast? Per serving (and what size serving) of

oats before cooking?

I don't quite understand how you can " not see how that could

raise my blood sugar. "

Carbs (aside of fiber, which is another topic entirely) *ARE

SUGAR* as far as your body is concerned! Sugar is a simple

carbohydrate. Starches, which are more complex, are STILL

SUGAR - they just have to be broken down more before the body

can use them. ALL CARBS are eventually broken down into the

form of GLUCOSE and go into your blood - *that* is how they

raise your BLOOD GLUCOSE. Simple yes? So, literally

translated, here's what your doctor, and dietician, have been

telling you:

Mike - don't eat sugar! But here... eat all this sugar!

Yes, what I'm saying is that your doctor is a BLATHERING IDIOT

who has NO BUSINESS treating diabetics, and should probably

be SUED FOR MALPRACTICE if its his usual way of treating his

diabetics. The Medical oath is to " Do No Harm " - but he IS, by

giving you the idea that 256 is " OK " and by not perscribing

anything but basal insulin to someone in your position. Your

breakfast sent your bloodsugar from 247 (wasn't it?) fasting to

317. That's a 70 point rise! If I could reach out and touch your

dietician, I'd probably wanna slap her into next week for being

such an idiot.

Suggestions for breakfast: Protein, protein, protein - and in case

that wasn't clear PROTEIN. Eggs, lean ham, cheese. Maybe mix

in some lower-carb veggies such as broccoli or zucchini, even

onions. Heck, have a little heart-healthy fat and toss in a few

olives if you can have the salt in them. Have some

splenda-sweetened yogurt and toss in some walnuts. Have

steak and eggs!

ANYTHING but cereal, oatmeal, toast, pancakes, or any other

product containing flour, wheat, oats, etc.

SulaBlue

[Guest guest]

> Of course 317 is bad. But exactly what is bad about wheat toast

and oats? I

> don't see how that could raise my blood surgar. If those things

are bad,

> could you give me suggestions? I'm getting very light help from

my doctor

> and from the diabetic clinic. My doctor said 256 " wasn't bad "

the other

> day. If I'm doing something wrong, I don't know what it is.

>

> Mike

Mike, are you reading the labels on your food? Do you see where

it says " Carbohydrates " on the label? How many are there per

slice in your wheat toast? Per serving (and what size serving) of

oats before cooking?

I don't quite understand how you can " not see how that could

raise my blood sugar. "

Carbs (aside of fiber, which is another topic entirely) *ARE

SUGAR* as far as your body is concerned! Sugar is a simple

carbohydrate. Starches, which are more complex, are STILL

SUGAR - they just have to be broken down more before the body

can use them. ALL CARBS are eventually broken down into the

form of GLUCOSE and go into your blood - *that* is how they

raise your BLOOD GLUCOSE. Simple yes? So, literally

translated, here's what your doctor, and dietician, have been

telling you:

Mike - don't eat sugar! But here... eat all this sugar!

Yes, what I'm saying is that your doctor is a BLATHERING IDIOT

who has NO BUSINESS treating diabetics, and should probably

be SUED FOR MALPRACTICE if its his usual way of treating his

diabetics. The Medical oath is to " Do No Harm " - but he IS, by

giving you the idea that 256 is " OK " and by not perscribing

anything but basal insulin to someone in your position. Your

breakfast sent your bloodsugar from 247 (wasn't it?) fasting to

317. That's a 70 point rise! If I could reach out and touch your

dietician, I'd probably wanna slap her into next week for being

such an idiot.

Suggestions for breakfast: Protein, protein, protein - and in case

that wasn't clear PROTEIN. Eggs, lean ham, cheese. Maybe mix

in some lower-carb veggies such as broccoli or zucchini, even

onions. Heck, have a little heart-healthy fat and toss in a few

olives if you can have the salt in them. Have some

splenda-sweetened yogurt and toss in some walnuts. Have

steak and eggs!

ANYTHING but cereal, oatmeal, toast, pancakes, or any other

product containing flour, wheat, oats, etc.

SulaBlue

[Guest guest]

I was 565, have been as low as 80's, and consitently between 100 and 180 until

recenctly. Last weekend it start's these big jumps that concern me. I'm not

drinking cokes and eating candy bars. I don't understand how oats and a slice of

toast are bad. I just don't understand why it keeps going up. They gave me a

book at the " diabetic " classes that my wife cooks from. I have thyroid disease I

just found out about this shortly after finding out about being diabetic. If

anyone has a specfic diet I should be on, please tell me. This book, and the

suggestions from the RN at the diabetic clinic are doing me no good now. When I

first started out with this, I got in the 100's even 80 twice, then out of the

blue it starts going bonkers when I haven't changed my diet.

Totally confused in Indiana

[Guest guest]

I was 565, have been as low as 80's, and consitently between 100 and 180 until

recenctly. Last weekend it start's these big jumps that concern me. I'm not

drinking cokes and eating candy bars. I don't understand how oats and a slice of

toast are bad. I just don't understand why it keeps going up. They gave me a

book at the " diabetic " classes that my wife cooks from. I have thyroid disease I

just found out about this shortly after finding out about being diabetic. If

anyone has a specfic diet I should be on, please tell me. This book, and the

suggestions from the RN at the diabetic clinic are doing me no good now. When I

first started out with this, I got in the 100's even 80 twice, then out of the

blue it starts going bonkers when I haven't changed my diet.

Totally confused in Indiana

[Guest guest]

I'm checking carbs all the time, and do as they tell me. 60 for breakfast and

lunch, 75 at dinner time. And I'm sure I'm usually below the suggested amounts.

Tell me what you guys eat, specifically, to keep your diabetes under control.

[Guest guest]

I'm checking carbs all the time, and do as they tell me. 60 for breakfast and

lunch, 75 at dinner time. And I'm sure I'm usually below the suggested amounts.

Tell me what you guys eat, specifically, to keep your diabetes under control.

[Guest guest]

Got it. No oats, no wheat bread. Lower carb in take.

Now, how about some examples of what I should eat, because evidently the book

they gave me is wrong. I check the carbs and every meal is below what the book

says I should have. I'll throw the book away and try to do better.

Re: Re: new diabetic with questions

At 12:36 PM 7/8/05, Mike Brown wrote:

>Of course 317 is bad. But exactly what is bad about wheat toast and oats? I

>don't see how that could raise my blood surgar.

Mike. Do you read the messages here? That's a serious question. Maybe you

just skim through them without really paying attention? Maybe high blood

sugar is making you forgetful? I'm asking because there have been dozens

of messages here that have said, with variations, " carbs are bad " , " grains

are carbs " . There have been many messages sending you to website pages

that LIST high-carb foods and explain about them and diabetes. Have you

gone to any of those websites?

I don't care that someone says " oh, maybe you can eat grains (or potatoes

or beans or rice or pasta or whatever it is), at first, IN MY OPINION, you

should cut out all of that stuff and go very low-carb initially. No bread

products / grains (corn is a grain) or potatoes or other starchy veggies

(peas, dry beans, winter squash, cooked carrots, etc.). Go very easy on

fruit (half cup of berries would probably be okay). Of course eliminate

sugar, honey, molasses, etc.

I know some folks here can eat limited amounts of some of the vegetables I

listed, and some beans and rice but they have their BG's under control.

They understand how much they can eat of which food. I *think* most of them

found that out after they got more or less under control, BG-wise.

sky

[Guest guest]

Mike Brown wrote:

> My meter has hit 565 when I was first diagnosed.

>

The cartoons in " Diabetes Health " magazine are getting a

little funnier than they used to be. They still have a ways to go yet.

Nevertheless, in a recent cartoon titled " Unclear on the Concept, "

A man is shouting excitedly to his startled wife,

" Whoopee!! Hey honey, I did it! I finally got this darned meter over

400!! Wow! I wonder how high this baby can go!!

Edd

[Guest guest]

Mike,

One of my FAVORITE breakfasts is scrambled eggs. Good thing,

too, as I'm VERY carb-sensitive in the mornings. (1g sends me

up 5 pts, vs. only 1 pt later in the day). I like take whatever's handy

in the way of low-carb veggies (I even risk some onions ) and

lean meats and just scramble 'em all in with some reduced-fat

(NOT that fat-free plastic crap - but that's just a personal taste

thing).

Everyone keeps recommending Dr. Bernstein's book. I haven't

read it, but have thought about it I basically go for a quasi-atkins

thing without all the high-fat creams and such, in the mornings at

least.

Right now I'm doing Nutrisystem and it's working for me (Lost 26

pounds, and can predict my bloodsugar response and

rapid-insulin needs within spitting distance most times - yay

me!).

SulaBlue

> Got it. No oats, no wheat bread. Lower carb in take.

>

> Now, how about some examples of what I should eat, because

evidently the book they gave me is wrong. I check the carbs and

every meal is below what the book says I should have. I'll throw

the book away and try to do better.

[Guest guest]

Sulablue, what is: (NOT that fat-free plastic crap " ?

ml

SulaBlue wrote:

>

> Mike,

>

> One of my FAVORITE breakfasts is scrambled eggs. Good thing,

> too, as I'm VERY carb-sensitive in the mornings. (1g sends me

> up 5 pts, vs. only 1 pt later in the day). I like take whatever's handy

> in the way of low-carb veggies (I even risk some onions ) and

> lean meats and just scramble 'em all in with some reduced-fat

> (NOT that fat-free plastic crap - but that's just a personal taste

> thing).

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Sulablue, what is: (NOT that fat-free plastic crap " ?

> ml

>

Hi ml

I don't know about Sula, but I made a decision early in my weight-loss

phase that life was too short to eat plastic cheese. And that's what

all reduced-fat cheeses seemed like to me.

Instead, I learned to eat very small portions of the best REAL cheese

I could buy. I learned to value taste over quantity. I re-discovered

Brie, Camembert, aged Cheddar, good blue-vein. If I wanted low-fat

cheese in a recipe I went " the whole hog " and used cottage or ricotta

- but then the flavours were mixed with other ingredients.

One thing that I learnt early was that most reduced-fat cheese was

still fairly high in fat; they generally were reduced from 30-40% to

about 20% - but that's still 20% fat. Better to eat a quarter as much

and savour it.

Cheers, Alan

[Guest guest]

thank you Alan, I just didn't know what plastic cheese was, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got it

now.

ml

Alan wrote:

>

>

> > Sulablue, what is: (NOT that fat-free plastic crap " ?

> > ml

> >

>

> Hi ml

>

> I don't know about Sula, but I made a decision early in my weight-loss

> phase that life was too short to eat plastic cheese. And that's what

> all reduced-fat cheeses seemed like to me.

>

[Guest guest]

> Ok Alan, I'll check one hour after I eat, which scares me even more.

>

> Morning fast taken at 6am: 247

>

> Breakfast: One bowl of oats with Splenda, piece of wheat toast,

bottle of

> watter.

> Checked one hour later, 317

>

Hi Mike

Part two.

This is loong - regulars can click on " next " :-)

I won't repeat all the excellent advice on carbs - I'm sure by now

you've got the message.

Tomorrow's suggested breakfast for you:

Ditch the oats for the moment (you didn't mention milk with the

cereal? Milk is also carbs). On your one piece of wheat toast, which

we won't ditch until the next day, have two eggs any way you like them

- fried, poached, scrambled whatever. If you are still hungry, add a

small piece of meat or fish - bacon, hamburger, ham, steak, smoked

cod.

At the foot of this message I have added my " standard " advice on

lower-carb breakfasts. My own, just now, was a cheese-and-onion

one-egg omelette with a rasher of bacon, and black cinnamon-steeped

coffee. No toast, milk, juice, cereals.

By now you will have had more meals in your diary today. Please post

them and the results - don't let the comments deter you.

On general eating, I hope Cappie will forgive me for some plagiarism.

These comments that she made to Ellen today said it better than I

could:

In msg 73527:

" when I was diagnosed I quit eating ALL the starches immediately. I

was never a sweet lover but I sure loved those potatoes, rice, pasta,

good whole grain & heavy dense bread, lots of sauces & gravies

thickened with flour & cornstarch etc etc etc.

<snip>

I stick mainly to lean protein & low GI green veggies. I also use

limited amounts of nuts, & cheese. I choose to use no-fat dairy &

yogurt but only because of the calorie content, fat is ok for

diabetics altho it is better to eat unsaturated fat as much as

possible. I don't eat butter or spread --I use olive oil or canola oil

instead. "

Brilliant advice for any new diabetic on general eating, both for

weight and BGs.

Now, on some breakfast ideas:

Alan's Breakfasts With Minimal Carbs

1. Egg. The humble egg can be cooked in so many ways: poached, fried

(minimal oil in a non-stick pan), normal omelette (beat it lightly

while cooking), fluffy omelette (seperate, whip the white with a

spoonful of water, fold back with filling and yolk), scrambled with a

little milk, frittata (sort of a heavier omelette with filling), and

baked. Use fillings, cheese, fresh herbs if you can, dried if you

can't.

2. Meat. Bacon, Ham, small steak, hamburger patty (watch the fat),

chicken, prosciutto, hot dogs and so on. Can be fried,

grilled/broiled, chopped after cooking and added to omelettes,

frittata or scrambled eggs. For bacon or other fatty meats, drain on

absorbent paper before serving.

3. Fish. Smoked, canned or fresh. Can be poached, fried, as a mornay

(easy on the thickener), mixed in a stir-fry etc. Same for seafood.

4. Mushrooms. Small ones can be sliced and cooked with onions, herbs ,

garlic etc and a little oil and a smidgin of flour for a gravy. Large

ones can be filled with bolognaise or napoli sauce (or whatever you

like), topped with grated cheese and baked in the oven. Also another

good omelette filling.

5. Casseroles and stews - beef, lamb, chicken, mince (ground beef) etc

can be pre-prepared and divided into individual breakfast sized

serves. Put them in small plastic containers in the freezer and zap

one in the microwave for breakfast. Check the carbs in the recipe to

check suitability. Beef bourgignon, Irish Stew (watch the spuds),

chicken fricassee, whatever your favourite is. Always test at 1 hr the

first time with casseroles - thickeners are usually the carb culprits

for high BGs.

6. Leftovers - slices of roast meat, re-heated or cold, re-heated

chops etc

Hope this helps a little. Keep posting that diary. And go for a walk

while you think about it.

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.

--

Diet and not enough exercise.

I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience.

Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be

an expensive teacher.

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter

[Guest guest]

At 07:08 PM 7/8/05, Alan wrote:

>5. Casseroles and stews - beef, lamb, chicken, mince (ground beef) etc

>can be pre-prepared and divided into individual breakfast sized

>serves.

argh, all of that food talk. Time for dinner. A whole artichoke, cold,

with mayo-grated onion-caper-lemon juice dip. I guess I'll throw a pork

steak into a pan brown it, then throw in sliced onion, mushrooms, and let's

see, what's in the fridge...ah, some sliced poblano and anaheim peppers.

Probably not a great combo as far as cooking styles go. Should have some

spicy artichoke dip or a milder sauce for the pork but that's the way it

goes. Might consider a cream sauce for the pork but I'm out of heavy

whipping cream. I can't get the store to carry the brand of organic heavy

whipping cream I want. They carry the brand of milk, butter, and cottage

cheese, but not the cream. I can't figure it out.

Got to go shopping for meat. Nothing in the freezer but steak and beef

shanks (as far as meat goes). I've been waiting for another batch of wild

salmon to get to the store. Been eying the shrimp but they've been very

high priced lately. Am off of chicken for some reason. Probably just don't

want to bother cooking it as I like the skin nice and crispy. Might just

buy a cooked one at the store. Am also out of avocados and only one tomato

left. Yep, gotta shop tomorrow (bad deal me not doing that before the

weekend).

sky

(stomach growling loudly)

[Guest guest]

Mike, endocrinologists deal with thyroid diseases as well as diabetes,

so maybe finding an endo might be a good step for you to take. I know

that you must be overwhelmed with all the advice that you've been

getting, so just take it one step at a time. Diabetes has a sharp

learning curve, and you can't expect to get it all right at once. Good

luck!

Sue

> I have thyroid disease I just found out about this shortly after

> finding out about being diabetic.

[Guest guest]

Now that is some of the BEST advice I have seen on this or any other

list.

Diabetes has a sharp

> learning curve, and you can't expect to get it all right at once.

Good

> luck!

> Sue