Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

October 31, 2004

In a message dated 10/31/2004 3:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:

>

> but they won't consider thyroid levels affecting seratonin levels at

> all.

>

but it does. not enough T3 in the brain and you don't have enough serotonin.

i guess giving out Armour Thyroid isn't as profitable as SSRIs,

anti-psychotics, anti-depressants.

cindi

October 31, 2004

In a message dated 10/31/2004 5:34:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

artisticgroom@... writes:

>

> Of course it isn't, they MIGHT actually get well and not need any meds! Or

> doctors!

>

on in the case of the BDD psychologist that got me started on this

thread...buy his books.

cindi

October 31, 2004

Happy Healthy Birthday Sis!!!

Artistic Grooming

Hurricane, West Virginia

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October 31, 2004

I personally see nothing wrong with avoiding people who refuse to keep trying to

seek ways to better their lives or their health. And that applies to blood

relatives too.

I have a daughter & son who're both that way & my other two children don't even

want to have much to do with their siblings because they're so depressed &

aren't moving off Square One to help themselves much, if at all like the other

two are.

My two adult kids in their bad situations & ill health depress me too. I end up

just crying or feeling miserable myself because I can't help them & they won't

help themselves much either. So there's nothing can be done until they change

their tune. I don't have much to do with them either anymore, even though I

still love them & they're my own kids after all. But they live in another state

so it's not hard for me to avoid them. Even my sister & BIL who live here nearby

me say if I moved there where those kids of mine are, I'd die there as I'd get

no help from them & be further depressed by their lives as well. I think I would

too. It's not worth my life to do that.

Same with your mom & sisters, IMHO. Stay away from them & tell them how you feel

if you've a mind to. Tho even that's not necessary. If they see the changes for

the better in you & come around asking what you did & asking for your help, then

you can get someplace with them. But until then, you just can't & don't have to

be dragged down further by their negative influence on you either. Not if you've

already tried to help them for years every which way you could like I have with

my kids.

Two of mine caught on & are supporting me in my efforts to heal myself better as

they are as well. The other two aren't.

Just my two cents for what it's worth.

Carolne

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

Okay, this is an old conversation, but I am severely behind in my email. I

can totally buy into the theory that people just love being miserable. My

mother, a nurse for gosh sakes, is just that way.

October 31, 2004

In a message dated 10/31/2004 6:05:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

>

> So how does seratonin work really?

serotonin is a brain chemical...a " feel good " chemical according to some. i

guess it works like hormones....too much or not enough and you have problems

in some area.

cindi

October 31, 2004

You may be correct that the mental deterioration from lack of proper thyroid

replacement is the key for some people staying in their sick, dramatic modes. Or

for manipulative reasons through maintaining their ill health & low thyroid

function around family members or close friends or even their personal religious

or spiritual beliefs. Who knows?

I know also it's really scarey & risky to think of getting better & giving up

our old roles or ways of being & living & interacting with others, especially as

we age more. " Ya can't teach an old dog new tricks " as the saying goes. Some are

just " old " in their mindsets too if not by chronicological age.

For some getting better would require making whole bunches of changes in

lifestyles. Even diet changes, perhaps more & different exercise, taking new

things not prescribed by doctors, even going against their doctors' " orders " .

Also often it makes for divorces, moving/relocating, giving up old friends &

even family or other familiar community resources.

That's a lot to ask & is too risky for some people to even think about let alone

venture into further education to change. It's an adventure into the unknown in

a lot of ways. And the unknown is often too fearful a place for some people to

go. It takes a lot of courage & fortitude, not just " right " thinking.

But the thinking is where it starts, yes. It all starts with entertaining &

contemplating a new thought-form that builds on itself in other major directions

& even lifestyles.

Just my thoughts on it all as having " been there, done that " myself many times

over & still doing it.

Caroline

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

In a message dated 10/31/2004 8:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,

hedoblonde@... writes:

i can't remember if I told yall about the one gal on the BDD forum that got

diagnosed hypo (her Free T3 was below range) but is rather adamant about that

not being the reason for her mental problems and personality disorder. And

I'm

wondering how dense can someone be

And then I wondered....does the hypo

actually give them faulty thinking? I remember reading the hypo can make it

" difficult to grasp new concepts " and now I'm wondering if that is the

case...why do we even bother? sigh.

Cindi

October 31, 2004

you know the funny thing is they'll tell you they're still not entirely

sure what affects seratonin levels in the brain, they just know that

increasing them helps depression.

but they won't consider thyroid levels affecting seratonin levels at

all.

sorta like how my ex doc wouldn't believe fibromyalgia might come from

untreated thyroid disease. yet says, " i don't know " when i asked him

where else it might come from.

" i don't know at all the cause of a but i'm SURE it's not because of b. "

duh.

baron

>

> i think this is very accurate. I've had a hard time conveying that

> brain

> chemistry is affected by thyroid dysfunction...as in less

> serotonin...which is

> what the psychs seem to blame so much on...and yet they don't check T3

> levels to

> assure that serotonin is indeed available. T3 is actually being

> called a

> brain chemical by some researchers.

> cindi

October 31, 2004

at 49 you have your whole life ahead of you.

happy birthday, spooky.

> yes...thank goodness for this group...where I know folks are trying to

> learn

> all they can to get better.

> btw...today is my birthday...no witch comments please...I'm 49.

> Cindi

October 31, 2004

Well...not all people are lucky enough to have computers or know how to use them

either. That in itself, makes a HUGE difference, IMHO. I wouldn't know much at

all had it not been that I've owned a computer since the first PCs were

invented.

Through searching for answers for my own health needs, even astrologically, is

how I came to be in this thyroid egroup & getting other health/throid-related

newsletters via email in the first place. If it wasn't for my knowledge of

astrology, I'd never be here or have learned what I now know about low thyroid

at all.

It's also not so easy to debrainwash ourselves from what the patriarchal

structure, even via the AMA & pharmeceuticals have set up for us. We've been

taught since Day One to follow our " authority " figures orders & not " make waves "

as our patriarchal tradition has taught us to.

Many people feel deeply guilty or sinful if they even *think* of bucking the

system. So they just block out all other thoughts or suggestions. That involves

a deep level of FEAR to get past to make the necessary changes, even to get into

self-medicating or going against mainstream beliefs or dictates.

Doing so can cause isolation & even disenfranchisement by " the system " & even

from one's family or spouses as witnessed here. That's no small thing at all.

It's just too scarey & guilt-producing for some people.

Caroline

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

i guess we bother cos we care and it's happened to us, and we know

there's hope. i don't think whatever's happened to them has much to do

with the faulty thinking caused by hypo. didn't stop any of us from

wanting to know more, and don't the people here represent a pretty good

cross section of thyroid sufferers?. the answers are out there. you

just have to have the faith and determination to look. most people

don't...they're ready and willing to accept whatever doctors tell them

to.

and, for the most part, a lot of people are happy with just whining and

complaining and not doing anything about it.

it's just our nature as people.

b

October 31, 2004

Yes & dying or committing suicide is the coward's easier way out too. It happens

all the time. See my other email about guilt, fear, debrainwashing & going

against " authority figures " & venturing into the Unknown....ALONE for the most

part. That all takes a lot of courage, IMHO.

Happy Holloweanie to all too! LOL!! And may all our days from hence forward be

all hallowed (wholey/whole/holy).

Caroline

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

Hi Cindi,

That's because griping and whining are WAAAAAAYYYYYY easier than actually

getting up off one's behind and doing something about it. My mom and sisters

are all that way, in fact so is my brother but he's as skinny as a rail. Just

as dysfunctional, but skinny as a rail. The better I begin to feel from getting

up and doing, rather than whining and doing nothing, the more dumbfounded I get

that more people don't do the same.

Oh well....at least we all have each other.

Happy Halloween!!!Deb

October 31, 2004

It's about the AMA treating body parts not the whole body too, IMHO. They

separate things like we're a mess of cogs, wheels, bolts, nuts & engine parts to

be examined & diagnosed like a machine, not like a human being. That's the

patriarchal " machine mentatlity " for ya.

One friend of mine who's a Reiki healer, masseuse, medical student,

Auyervedic/Tibetan/American herbalist who's got a dysfunctional pituitary & is

diabetic, is poor & stuck with MediCal here in California (Medicaid in other

states) said she went to a chiropodist who didn't even know what a metatarsal

arch bone was.

She said she also noticed when she went to that clinic that there were many

doors & departments with different body parts or anatomy functions on them. And

one didn't know what the other was even about most of the time.

Too many specialists & not enough wholistic practioners if you ask me. The

insurance HMOs don't even cover the alternative wholistic types of healing

either so people often have to stay with the " body parts " authorities who don't

know what a " whole " human being even is, to get any kind of health care at all.

So there's way more to this than just judging people for being lazy or wanting

to stay in their misery.

Caroline

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

there's another component to this...and that is most people with a

mental or mood disorders are almost always convinced that there is

something very wrong with them mentally. so even if they are aware

that they are not normal and suffer a condition, be it bdd or bipolar

disease or something like this, their research, dr's visits,

psychiatric evaluations, etc., all have them firmly convinced that the

root of their condition is in brain chemistry, not thyroid disease.

segregating mental health and thyroid health is the fault of the

medical establishment. the result is that we have experts who know a

lot about one thing and not a lot about the other, and how the two can

relate.very unfortunate.b

October 31, 2004

Deb, you're not bad for not wanting to have to deal with your mom. This disease

can do some pretty interesting things to people. I have seen it in my mom for

years. I would rather not believe that she's got some 'defunct character' but I

tell ya, sometimes it's hard not to think those types of things about them. She

knows she does well on Armour, but something holds her back. I have found that

not talking to her on a regular basis is better for me, period. My Mom was

never really all that good at making choices for herself, so this isn't anything

new to us. She's the type who has to be told, and since I lack the 'dr's

degree', she's not listening.

Thyroid issues do run in our family, but I don't have the time, energy, or

effort to 'convince' her. And honestly, taking care of ourselves is a full time

job, along with helping people who are really seeking answers for themselves in

these groups. I'm not offering anymore unsolicited advice about thyroid related

issues to her, or the chances of her having it. It is very frustrating but it's

also not possible to fix her problems. I have offered her a solution to how

badly she feels, and she refuses to take it. Until she admits there is a

problem that could be her thyroid, anything I say will fall on deaf ears. I

think the fact that we don't want to see our mom's suffer with something

needlessly makes it hard to just detach from them.

SandyE~Houston

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

Hi!

Okay, this is an old conversation, but I am severely behind in my email. I

can totally buy into the theory that people just love being miserable. My

mother, a nurse for gosh sakes, is just that way. I am 100% certain that she is

very hypothyroid, it runs in the family in a very big way and she has ALL the

symptoms. But, instead of listening to me (I have almost never been wrong with

health stuff once I do my research) she bounces from doctor to doctor to doctor

to see how many more pills she can take. And of course thinks they are the gods

they think themselves to be. It's pretty sad really. And all she wants to do

is complain how terrible she feels, when she isn't making up stories about how

she's having " the time of her life " out in Arizona. I talk to her best friend

(they've been friends since they were 5) and Mom doesn't hardly ever leave her

apartment. So I know better. And she complains about everything to her too. I

get so tired of hearing my own mother complain

about things, or just flat out lie, that I don't talk to her much. I can't

take all that misery, it isn't healthy and all it does is make me mad because

there really is no need for it. Am I bad for really disliking talking to or

spending time with my mother?

For the record, I am pretty sure both of my sisters are also very hypothyroid,

but they are just like my mother in that they enjoy being miserable and making

everyone around them just as miserable as they are. I avoid them like the

plague and have for some time, but now since I am feeling so much better, their

attitudes irritate me even more. UGH!!!!

Hugs,

Deb :-)

October 31, 2004

>>i guess giving out Armour Thyroid isn't as profitable as SSRIs,

anti-psychotics, anti-depressants.<<

Of course it isn't, they MIGHT actually get well and not need any meds! Or

doctors!

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

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October 31, 2004

So how does seratonin work really? I've heard about it before but I've forgetten

what that's all about now. Got that right about Armour not being as profitable

tho. I mean if the AMA were really into curing people, they'd soon have no

patients & a lot less income, right? That is unless they started selling

holistic alternative products like so many of the more aware doctors are now

doing online & making a killing that way keeping their clients depending on them

for continuing on the alternative stuff. They're all only trying to make a

living after all.

Caroline

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

In a message dated 10/31/2004 3:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

420@... writes:>

> but they won't consider thyroid levels affecting seratonin levels at

> all.>

but it does. not enough T3 in the brain and you don't have enough serotonin.

i guess giving out Armour Thyroid isn't as profitable as SSRIs,

anti-psychotics, anti-depressants.

cindi

October 31, 2004

Sounds like it has something to do with endorphins, those " happy " critters some

have more of than other running around in their bodies.

C

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

serotonin is a brain chemical...a " feel good " chemical according to some. i

guess it works like hormones....too much or not enough and you have problems

in some area.cindi

October 31, 2004

I am so amazed that your mother, as a nurse, wants anything at all to do

with doctors. I'm a registered CNA, and during the 14 or so yrs I've been

doing this, it was in this realm that I grew to intensely resent doctors

because I always would see them in their real light, in this profession.

Then, having thyroid disease really brought it all home to me, which is the

icing on the cake. Since so many doctors simply don't respect their nurses

and any nursing personnel, this really surprises me. Having gone through

almost 6 months of a deep melancholic depression many yrs ago, I don't ever

want to be there again, so I don't see how people would even want to make it

a way of life. This is depression to me.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> Hi!

>

> Okay, this is an old conversation, but I am severely behind in my email.

I can totally buy into the theory that people just love being miserable. My

mother, a nurse for gosh sakes, is just that way. I am 100% certain that

she is very hypothyroid, it runs in the family in a very big way and she has

ALL the symptoms. But, instead of listening to me (I have almost never been

wrong with health stuff once I do my research) she bounces from doctor to

doctor to doctor to see how many more pills she can take. And of course

thinks they are the gods they think themselves to be. It's pretty sad

really. And all she wants to do is complain how terrible she feels, when

she isn't making up stories about how she's having " the time of her life "

out in Arizona. I talk to her best friend (they've been friends since they

were 5) and Mom doesn't hardly ever leave her apartment. So I know better.

And she complains about everything to her too. I get so tired of hearing my

own mother com!

> plain

> about things, or just flat out lie, that I don't talk to her much. I

can't take all that misery, it isn't healthy and all it does is make me mad

because there really is no need for it. Am I bad for really disliking

talking to or spending time with my mother?

>

> For the record, I am pretty sure both of my sisters are also very

hypothyroid, but they are just like my mother in that they enjoy being

miserable and making everyone around them just as miserable as they are. I

avoid them like the plague and have for some time, but now since I am

feeling so much better, their attitudes irritate me even more. UGH!!!!

>

> Hugs,

>

> Deb :-)

October 31, 2004

I'm late on this one, Cindi, but Happy Birthday anyway and have a good one!

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/31/2004 11:40:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> hedoblonde@... writes:

>

> > Oh well....at least we all have each other.

> >

> > Happy Halloween!!!

> >

>

> yes...thank goodness for this group...where I know folks are trying to

learn

> all they can to get better.

> btw...today is my birthday...no witch comments please...I'm 49.

> Cindi

October 31, 2004

Yep, my kids think I'm a nut case for winging it on my own, especially the

one who is married into a well off family and has lots of medical insurance

to go to lots of doctors. She has Hashi's also, complains constantly about

being tired and depressed, I offer her an answer, then she just rolls her

eyes and says that that can't possibly be it because the doctor said so. Of

course she's been on synthetic T4 all this time. It's not emotional because

she is very happily married, just constantly with no energy, brin fogged in

the morning even with a ton of sleep, can't lose any weight even visiting

the health spa, etc, etc, etc.........So I just quit talking about it with

them. They just think I'm a kook for doing my own tests and medicating

myself.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> Well...not all people are lucky enough to have computers or know how to

use them either. That in itself, makes a HUGE difference, IMHO. I wouldn't

know much at all had it not been that I've owned a computer since the first

PCs were invented.

>

> Through searching for answers for my own health needs, even

astrologically, is how I came to be in this thyroid egroup & getting other

health/throid-related newsletters via email in the first place. If it wasn't

for my knowledge of astrology, I'd never be here or have learned what I now

know about low thyroid at all.

>

> It's also not so easy to debrainwash ourselves from what the patriarchal

structure, even via the AMA & pharmeceuticals have set up for us. We've been

taught since Day One to follow our " authority " figures orders & not " make

waves " as our patriarchal tradition has taught us to.

>

> Many people feel deeply guilty or sinful if they even *think* of bucking

the system. So they just block out all other thoughts or suggestions. That

involves a deep level of FEAR to get past to make the necessary changes,

even to get into self-medicating or going against mainstream beliefs or

dictates.

>

> Doing so can cause isolation & even disenfranchisement by " the system " &

even from one's family or spouses as witnessed here. That's no small thing

at all. It's just too scarey & guilt-producing for some people.

> Caroline

October 31, 2004

LOL, Caroline------Doors in a medical office, with names of different

specialties and noone knows what the other parts are doing-----This is the

epitomy of why people aren't being cured.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> It's about the AMA treating body parts not the whole body too, IMHO. They

separate things like we're a mess of cogs, wheels, bolts, nuts & engine

parts to be examined & diagnosed like a machine, not like a human being.

That's the patriarchal " machine mentatlity " for ya.

>

> One friend of mine who's a Reiki healer, masseuse, medical student,

Auyervedic/Tibetan/American herbalist who's got a dysfunctional pituitary &

is diabetic, is poor & stuck with MediCal here in California (Medicaid in

other states) said she went to a chiropodist who didn't even know what a

metatarsal arch bone was.

>

> She said she also noticed when she went to that clinic that there were

many doors & departments with different body parts or anatomy functions on

them. And one didn't know what the other was even about most of the time.

>

> Too many specialists & not enough wholistic practioners if you ask me. The

insurance HMOs don't even cover the alternative wholistic types of healing

either so people often have to stay with the " body parts " authorities who

don't know what a " whole " human being even is, to get any kind of health

care at all.

>

> So there's way more to this than just judging people for being lazy or

wanting to stay in their misery.

> Caroline

November 1, 2004

Hi ,

I think it's that G.O.D. they tag onto the end of their names with the rest of

their titles. I was in nursing school once.....almost finished too. I got up

to the clinical part but I dropped out because I couldn't stand the medical

" professionals " that were part of the clinical education. The nursing

instructors had their favorites, and if you weren't one of those, then you

flunked the class. Let's just say I perfected my brown nosing skills then

because I had really wanted to me a nurse. Then when met the doctors I would

have to be dealing with for the rest of the class....I think I lasted less than

a month after that. Things I heard, things I saw, I couldn't stand it. Most

were on some heavy drugs and we're talking the street stuff. And none respected

the nurses at all! It was terrible they way they talked to us. They treated

the students even worse than the " official " nurses. Then the other nurses took

that as their key to treat us students badly. UGH!!!

I gave up an became and accountant. Calculators can't treat you poorly. LOL!!!

Have a great week everyone!!

Deb

P.S. My body says it's 5:00 AM,....but the clock says 4:00. I'm going to be

messed up for a week from this time change! YUCK!!!! LOL!!

wrote: