Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

[Guest guest]

I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected psychologist/written books)

lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric conditions...and I got in

lots of trouble on the BDD Central forum when i vehemently disagreed with him

when he said low thyroid only caused depression.

Below is his latest post on the subject. I'm starting to wonder if he

comprehends what he has read - or did he even read it. What really bothers me

about

this...is that some folks are highly influenced by what a PhD says. And

because he has said this...they will probably not go get tested....despite the

fact the several have already been diagnosed hypo and the others in low range.

I actually got banned from that forum because of my disagreement with Dr.

Claiborn and my continuing efforts for people to at least check their thyroid

function to see if it was contributing to their psychiatric symptoms. So trying

to help people and educate them is very, very hard.

Cindi

Re Thyroid and other connnections

 

Not long ago I responded to the thyroid question elsewhere on this board. In

general my reaction is that I really doubt there is any connection. I have

read some of the things that have been suggested make a connection and I am not

convinced. If any of the readers here are convinced otherwise I suggest they

press their point with some of the researchers working on BDD such as Kathy

. When I hear from one of them that the hypotheses makes sense then I

will

listen. I am not a physician but from my understanding the connection just

doesn't make sense.

 

I have no time or energy to devote to a debate about it so please take my

position for what it's worth.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2004 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nc2406@... writes:

> I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected psychologist/written books)

> lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric conditions...and I got

> in

> lots of trouble on the BDD Central forum when i vehemently disagreed with

> him

> when he said low thyroid only caused depression.

>

Let me also just add to this that this psychologist treats anxiety and panic

disorders (which is basically what BDD revolves around)...and when I asked him

if a patient presented to him with depression and anxiety and obsessions

(which could be caused by low thyroid)...would he first have their thyroid

function tested before treating them (he does CBT therapy). He said NO...that

it

was up to their GPs to offer that testing.

So okay...I may have told him he was negligent and doing a disservice to his

patients by not at least having this checked....but gosh...what do we do with

psychologists who do not acknowledge these problems can be caused by a low

thyroid condition? I think I may have told him his pocketbook was influencing

his statements.

I truly believe that we're fighting a losing battle sometimes...

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2004 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nc2406@... writes:

> So trying

> to help people and educate them is very, very hard.

>

But it is worthwhile at time. The following is from the mother of a lady

whose son has BDD. She had read my low thyroid link to BDD info and decided to

investigate further

has Hashimoto's.  Don't you have that too?  His anti-thyroid antibodies

are 1946 and TSH is 7.901.  T4, Free was .99 and T4 was 6.1.  I don't see any

result for T-3 on the lab report.  The specific gravity of his blood and

urine were high, cholesterol high, Lymphs low, DHEA a little low and vitamin D a

little low.  He is to take DHEA and Armour.  Cindi, I want to thank you for

bringing the thyroid issue to our attention.  His psychiatrist just looked at

the

TSH and said it was normal.  I'm glad we found Dr. Langer - we liked him

better this time.  He thanked me for the BDD info I sent to him.  He does

believe

that might be able to come off the psychiatric drugs once the thyroid

deficiency is addressed.  is so hopeful, and me too.  So, thank you again

Cindi.  I will let you know how does on the Armour.   

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:02:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> Gosh, Cindi, I would have been happy to have been

> kicked off of THAT forum, because with an attitude like his, it wasn't going

> anywhere anyway

,

Thank you. Your words meant a lot to me. I had sorta come to that conclusion

too. It's just another sad example of folks listing to a " professional " who

is clueless...and will keep them sick...and his pocketbook padded.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:13:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> I thought that a psychologist could not order these testings, i.e., can't

> do

> doctors' orders? But he can refer them back or advise them to their

> physicians for this testing, that I DO know

right..he can't...but so many of these BDD folks are on psychotropic

drugs..and they get referred to a psychatrist for the meds...and then just see

the

psychologist for the therapy. I have told folks on that forum that their

thyroid

function should be checked before being prescribed any psychotropic

drugs...but they think I don't know what I'm talking about evidently.

The latest BDD teenager that just got diagnosed with Hashimoto's by Dr.

Langer (solved - the riddle of illness) was already on a anti-psychotic, an

anti-anxiety, and an anti-depressant. As I talked to his mother and learned

more

about him, I was just sure he was low thyroid. I think after we know we have

this, it gets very easy to recognize the signs in someone else. And what passes

for BDD is exactly some of the symptoms of low thyroid. When I see something

like this young teenager being put on all these drugs, it sounds like

malpractice to me to have put a person on all these drugs and to have never

checked

their thyroid function.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:13:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> We would want more doctors on these forums, but that's one of the

> main problems with this, is that they are not there to learn anything from

> patients most of the time, they are there to teach what they believe in.

> This is always to the detriment of patients, when a doctor is unwilling to

> learn what's really going on with any disease, rather than being influenced

> by very large outside forces.

>

oh - yes. exactly right. they should be listening to the patients. but

they don't.

cindi

[Guest guest]

> I have no time or energy to devote to a debate about it so please take my

> position for what it's worth.

This statement right here is the general attitude of arrogance that I just

can't stand anymore! I am so sick of this! He doesn't have time or energy?

What is he, stupid? Look at all the people on all these boards who not only

" don't have any energy " , but are ill beyond belief, including BDD people,

who are included whole heartedly in THIS disease, I have NO doubt. Yes, Mr.

Psych, I WILL take your position for what it's worth, and as far as I'm

concerned, with YOUR lack of concern, it ain't worth much! Not after saying

those famous last words. Gosh, Cindi, I would have been happy to have been

kicked off of THAT forum, because with an attitude like his, it wasn't going

anywhere anyway. As you said, people have a tendency to take the word of

someone with a Phd. I think we've all earned OUR phd too, the hard way.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected psychologist/written books)

> lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric conditions...and I

got in

> lots of trouble on the BDD Central forum when i vehemently disagreed with

him

> when he said low thyroid only caused depression.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:19:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> A 7 something TSH normal??????? You've got to

> be kidding. It's getting lonely here in the medical world.

>

actually...when it was checked by the psychiatrist (after dosing the poor boy

with psychotropic drugs) it was 3.7....and the psychiatrist had said that was

normal. And get this...but the psych put him on a little teeny bit of

Synthroid because that might be why he was fatigued. This was TWO years ago.

It's

never been checked again.

When I had saw she posted about her son taking Synthroid...I started asking

questions..and she got her son to Dr. Langer then.

In that two year time, he's been taking all the psychotropic drugs...while

his TSH went up.

And actually...I'm seeing where with primarily psychiatric symptoms, that TSH

just doesn't go up very high even though the hormone levels drop. This is a

problem with folks getting diagnosed with mental disorders instead of thyroid

disorder I think.

cindi

[Guest guest]

I thought that a psychologist could not order these testings, i.e., can't do

doctors' orders? But he can refer them back or advise them to their

physicians for this testing, that I DO know. It's obvious he doesn't

believe this, though, so, to me, you did right, by being truthful about what

was in your mind. Once again, the ego has taken over at the expense of

patients. We would want more doctors on these forums, but that's one of the

main problems with this, is that they are not there to learn anything from

patients most of the time, they are there to teach what they believe in.

This is always to the detriment of patients, when a doctor is unwilling to

learn what's really going on with any disease, rather than being influenced

by very large outside forces.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/21/2004 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> nc2406@... writes:

>

> > I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected psychologist/written

books)

> > lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric conditions...and I

got

> > in

> > lots of trouble on the BDD Central forum when i vehemently disagreed

with

> > him

> > when he said low thyroid only caused depression.

> >

>

> Let me also just add to this that this psychologist treats anxiety and

panic

> disorders (which is basically what BDD revolves around)...and when I asked

him

> if a patient presented to him with depression and anxiety and obsessions

> (which could be caused by low thyroid)...would he first have their thyroid

> function tested before treating them (he does CBT therapy). He said

NO...that it

> was up to their GPs to offer that testing.

>

> So okay...I may have told him he was negligent and doing a disservice to

his

> patients by not at least having this checked....but gosh...what do we do

with

> psychologists who do not acknowledge these problems can be caused by a low

> thyroid condition? I think I may have told him his pocketbook was

influencing

> his statements.

>

> I truly believe that we're fighting a losing battle sometimes...

> Cindi

[Guest guest]

Yes, I can relate, but what I say is that quite the opposite, you're tired

of BEING muzzled.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/21/2004 2:02:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> starz@... writes:

>

> > ahahahahaha. Tell him how you really feel Cindi! You prolly hit the

> > nail right on the head!

> >

>

> I have found that since sliding into hypo and even after starting

> Armour...that I often need a muzzle. can anyone relate?

> Cindi

[Guest guest]

Ah, hahahahahhahahahaha!!!! A 7 something TSH normal??????? You've got to

be kidding. It's getting lonely here in the medical world.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> But it is worthwhile at time. The following is from the mother of a lady

> whose son has BDD. She had read my low thyroid link to BDD info and

decided to

> investigate further

>

> has Hashimoto's. Don't you have that too? His anti-thyroid

antibodies

> are 1946 and TSH is 7.901. T4, Free was .99 and T4 was 6.1. I don't see

any

> result for T-3 on the lab report. The specific gravity of his blood and

> urine were high, cholesterol high, Lymphs low, DHEA a little low and

vitamin D a

> little low. He is to take DHEA and Armour. Cindi, I want to thank you for

> bringing the thyroid issue to our attention. His psychiatrist just looked

at the

> TSH and said it was normal. I'm glad we found Dr. Langer - we liked him

> better this time. He thanked me for the BDD info I sent to him. He does

believe

> that might be able to come off the psychiatric drugs once the

thyroid

> deficiency is addressed. is so hopeful, and me too. So, thank you

again

> Cindi. I will let you know how does on the Armour.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2004 8:07:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> This is why

> the TSH just can't be a sure bet, and even the level of thyroid hormones, in

> some cases. It's so obvious, once you read for a few minutes! Even a child

> could understand it! And all those drugs given to a child, when it just

> wasn't necessary to do so.

>

And he's not the only one I know about. The others at the BDD Forum that

have been diagnosed have also taken loads of psychotropic drugs before being

diagnosed hypo. Scary.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 8:58:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> I, too, was on one antidepressant,

> tranquilizer, antipsychotic, and another. I'm not saying that sometimes

> they don't have ANY purpose, very temporarily, but to automatically put

> people on these drugs for the next few lightyrs, is devastating, and they've

> looked no further.

>

>

Exactly. I agree with you that the drugs have their place...but thyroid

function should always be checked.

Interestingly enough, you may remember that I posted that I was banned from

BDD Central for disagreeing with Dr. J. Claiborn on his inaccurate statements

about the psychiatric manifestations of thyroid dysfunction. Just today, I

have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies about me...like I

was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a rule that

" thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will be banned. I

am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I want to tell

anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:57:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,

starz@... writes:

> There are people who don't want to see such as

> what you pointed out, because they'll be writing less prescriptions to

> their patients and that's going to cut into profits, eventually

yall are so sweet...thank you. yea..this was another thing i thought

of...less money for the docs who treat this...the doc I disagreed with does CBT

(cognitive behavioral therapy) for BDD folks...and I just pointed out that if it

was a thyroid function causing their depression and anxiety...no amount of CBT

was gonna help. The moderator musta thought that was rude.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:10:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,

LestatL382@... writes:

> You should post the address of this BDD Central. Than we will ALL

> join and start talking about thyroid stuff. Might make a point!

>

do ya know...I had actually thought about suggesting this.

but if anyone wants to look at the site go to:

http://www.bddcentral.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

I had a lot of stuff posted under the " treatment " section, but I just noticed

" the moderator " is there...so she is probably busily deleting any post with

the word " thyroid " in it.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:28:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,

aconner@... writes:

> I am a psychologist that

> practices CBT (also a fellow thyroid sufferer who is currently on

> the hypO side), and I agree with you, that if the cause of

> depression and anxiety is thyroid related, the best way to treat

> someone is to address the underlying physical cause. Half the

> solution to a problem lies in defining it. If you misattribute the

> cause to some other factor, you are off base

,

Thank you so much for your response. What you said is exactly what my

message was: Find out if thyroid dysfunction is the cause of your BDD problems.

I am actually an advocate (and have posted as such) of CBT. In fact even in

my own case...someone who had undiagnosed low thyroid for so long...I think

our brains can get mapped into certain thought patterns..and I can see where CBT

would actually be helpful for me. In fact I think I have practiced some of

the principles as I have healed from hypo.

But thank you for verifying that it is important to determine if there is an

underlying cause for the depression and anxiety.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:42:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

> Then there's family ties, children's schooling & such to think of

> plus financial advantages they might be getting by being sick, etc.

> Many people, young or old, are on disability or welfare because of

> their illness

boy you hit the nail on the head here. one gal that was diagnosed hypo after

i told her to get checked...is so resistant to the idea that it is actually

her hypo status causing her mental problems. she's trying to get on disability

for the mental illness. and there are some others on disability .

which is another story altogether..because now we're paying taxes to support

folks who just need Armour.

cindi

[Guest guest]

I just want to thank you all for the responses I got on this subject this

morning. When I went to that BDD Forum saw the things that a moderator had

written about me, I was stunned speechless.

I wil tell you all that I was extremely hurt but the responses here this

morning were so much like my thinking that I have been reassured...and feel okay

now.

When I realized the link between BDD and low thyroid, I spent about 500 hours

researching hypothyroidism and psychiatric disturbance. It was an important

subject not only for my own case, but because my mother was an undiagnosed

suicide and there is another suicide in my family plus numerous suicide attempts

on that maternal side. I truly believe with all my heart and mind that all

those mental disturbances were (and are in some cases) related to an undiagnosed

thyroid dysfunction.

Those 500 hours taught me this: a low thyroid condition can present as any

psychiatric disturbance. That doesn't mean all mental disorders are low

thyroid related, but it does mean for sure that this should be checked...and i'm

afraid that in too many cases, it is not.

So again..just a really big THANK YOU for the support this morning....and

helping me not feel so alone. You have no idea how much it means to me.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

To my knowledge, I don't guess I have that disorder (I don't know what the

definition is exactly), but, before I believed that it could be any

different from what a doctor said, I, too, was on one antidepressant,

tranquilizer, antipsychotic, and another. I'm not saying that sometimes

they don't have ANY purpose, very temporarily, but to automatically put

people on these drugs for the next few lightyrs, is devastating, and they've

looked no further.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/24/2004 8:07:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> marin@... writes:

>

> > This is why

> > the TSH just can't be a sure bet, and even the level of thyroid

hormones, in

> > some cases. It's so obvious, once you read for a few minutes! Even a

child

> > could understand it! And all those drugs given to a child, when it just

> > wasn't necessary to do so.

> >

>

> And he's not the only one I know about. The others at the BDD Forum that

> have been diagnosed have also taken loads of psychotropic drugs before

being

> diagnosed hypo. Scary.

> cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 12:43:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

>

> What are CBT & BDD, please?

>

CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy retraining one's thoughts sorta.

BDD Body Dysmorphic Disorder

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 12:43:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

> Never knew I had that & I may not have it as bad as some others do. But I

> hve experienced every one of those symptoms & still to do most days. I had no

> idea that was thyroid related too. So what's the usual treatment for people

> with BDD?

With BDD, they give them anti-psychotic, SSRIs, anti-anxiety...and most folks

have tried more than just a few of these psychotropic drugs. I think the

usual treatment isn't working because it's origins are low thyroid.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Just today, I

have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies about

me...like I

was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a rule that

" thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will be banned.

I

am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I want to

tell

anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

Cindi

WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It isn't like

you are selling armour or anything.

I have found many people are not interested in getting better. Their

identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got the well,

they would loose themselves.

nne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 1:27:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

starz@... writes:

> Cindi, if you really wanna piss them off, start up your own message

> group, and have it be almost the same name. lol. You'll be surprised

> how many people that you chatted with will end up visiting you &

> discussing these things. :-)

>

> When all else fails, get even. lol :-)

>

OMG..not 10 minutes ago I was thinking the very same thing. Start up a BDD

from Low Thyroid group.

I tell ya...it's probably good I got banned. I would read these posts and

just want to reach through the puter screen and stuff Armour down their throats.

Even today, there's this gal talking about how depressed she is and how she

can't stay awake long enough to even get to her therapist. And i'm thinking

therapist?...go order some Armour gal!

But no...i think this has been a good lesson to Cindi to learn to take care

of HERSELF first...at least for a little while.

Actually, the two moms on that forum who have sons who are hypo are sorta

carrying on the torch. They're pretty mad about the whole thing..after all,

their sons were both given about a dozen drugs before getting the hypo

diagnosis...so they understand the message very clearly.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

It may be a Yahoo site, but it's still a violation of freedom of speech. I

understand that on a forum, the sbjct of the forum is the main thing, but

anything related to that, or with a possibility of being related to that

would be a part of the sbjct. This owner-moderator-forum sounds rather

insane to me! I could understand if it was about a curse word or someone

deliberately humiliating someone, just for the sake of humiliating them, or

to humiliate them because of their disease, or to advertise some product

they're selling, BUT to ban the saying of a word that is the name of a

disease--I'm sorry, but that is just insane, and I would not want any part

of it. One thing I would want to do, though, would be to send convincing

evidence to some forum members, to let them know that what I said is the

truth. My mouth is literally hanging open, but I don't guess it should. We

have a whole mindset now within the society that is an incredible forerunner

of communist ways, no matter how minute that SOME people (I didn't say me)

think of it. This site owner sounds something like a Hitler or Stalin, in

his own little world. Eeeeekkkk!!!!

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/25/2004 8:58:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> marin@... writes:

>

> > I, too, was on one antidepressant,

> > tranquilizer, antipsychotic, and another. I'm not saying that sometimes

> > they don't have ANY purpose, very temporarily, but to automatically put

> > people on these drugs for the next few lightyrs, is devastating, and

they've

> > looked no further.

> >

> >

>

> Exactly. I agree with you that the drugs have their place...but thyroid

> function should always be checked.

>

> Interestingly enough, you may remember that I posted that I was banned

from

> BDD Central for disagreeing with Dr. J. Claiborn on his inaccurate

statements

> about the psychiatric manifestations of thyroid dysfunction. Just today,

I

> have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies about

me...like I

> was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a rule that

> " thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will be

banned. I

> am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I want to

tell

> anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

> Cindi

[Guest guest]

You should post the address of this BDD Central. Than we will ALL

join and start talking about thyroid stuff. Might make a point!

Louise

> > Just today, I

> > have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies

> about

> > me...like I

> > was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a

> rule that

> > " thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will

> be banned.

> > I

> > am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I

> want to

> > tell

> > anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

> > Cindi

> >

> >

> >

> > WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It

> isn't like

> > you are selling armour or anything.

> >

> >

> >

> > I have found many people are not interested in getting better.

> Their

> > identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got

> the well,

> > they would loose themselves.

> >

> > nne

> >

> >

> >

> >