Re: Breast vs. Formula

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-05-31 00:13:54 EDT, you write:

<< Of course the only way this would work is if women had free

access to lactation consultants. I am going to do my part by helping as

many women as possible.

>>

Wendi~

I commend you. After all of my ordeals, I've been considering becoming a

certified lactation consultant and working on a volunteer basis through the

LLLI. I haven't found a LLL leader in my area who will do a home visit...and

I've been stuck in that I developed severe problems where there wasn't a

meeting for 4 weeks ;-(

I agree with the points you've made. I feel that not only is formula TOO

available...but that it is pushed upon mothers (like I mentioned). I know

that in the hospital I delivered in there was only one LC (who I don't think

was very good) and none of the L & D nurses knew much about nursing. They also

gave my son bottles of sugar water, water, and formula against my wishes. Is

it any wonder why we've had difficulties? ;-)

I do think that there needs to be MORE HELP available to those women who make

the choice to bf. I think THAT will be MUCH more effective than just

screaming " Breast is Best " Support is so important.

~

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-05-31 00:24:56 EDT, you write:

<< The LC's at the hosptial that I got to are free. >>

I called the LC at my hospital...she doesn't do anything else other than

treat patients.

<<The LC's are the local WIC

center's are free, In fact I didn't know that it costs money to get an LC!>>

Do you have to qualify for WIC to use their services? If so, that wouldn't

have worked for me either ;-( Also, I didn't even know that WIC had them.

See....women don't know what services are available to them ;-(

~

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-05-31 01:16:28 EDT, you write:

<< Sorry if this is too radical for y'all

- see why I didn't feel I should post on that board?? Wasn't up for dealing

with flames. >>

Having different opinions are what makes the world go 'round.

Flaming isn't necessary if someone disagrees with you. ;-)

~

[Guest guest]

,

I can see the other side, but if formula wasn't so available like it is

here more women would be able to breastfeed. When you don't have any other

choice it is given that you will breastfeed. If that was the situation in

our society there would only be a few medical cases that couldn't

breastfeed and they would get bank milk. These women on this bulletin

board (I haven't been there or posted) seem to have the resources to get

information and are completely ignoring it. Yes it takes dedication but

anyone can do it. It can be rough and we all need support. Which is why I

want to be a LLL leader. I want to help people in my community. I don't

think lying and saying that formula is as good as breastfeeding is the way

to support anyone. I think the less available formula is the more chance

we have of successful breastfeeding. It is the mindset that " if I fail

there is a net " that makes so many women default to formula. I never had

formula in my house with either of my children. It was never even an

option for me. I think too many women turn to formula at the least hint of

inconvenience or trouble. If formula was only available by prescription

women would do everything they could to not have to go get that

prescription. Of course the only way this would work is if women had free

access to lactation consultants. I am going to do my part by helping as

many women as possible.

Wendi

Breast vs. Formula

From: Mygrdntool@...

About the other message boards....I haven't been there....and I'm not

trying

to disagree with angela or anyone else...just trying to shed liht on the

other side.

I'm probably not going to be very popular for saying this...but I will

anyway.

Yes...ideally, breast is best. In most mothers, the breast milk is much

better and healthier for the baby than fake formula milk. HOWEVER, let's

keep this in mind. Breastfeeding is hard. We all know that. It takes a

lot

of patience, dedication, and hard work to perfect it. Some mom's, sadly,

don't have these things. In that kind of a situation, I wonder if breast

really would be best. If a mom would be so frustrated about breastfeeding

and not do it enough (because it hurts) then is that the best for her baby?

Not necessarily. Another thing we should keep in mind is that there is

virtually NO support out there for breastfeeding women unless you search

hard

for it. Some women don't have the resources to attain this help. OBs,

Hospitals, commercials, society...all tell us to formula feed. Insurance

companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals.

I know that with my situation, I would have quit b-fing 2 weeks ago had we

not the $85 to hire the LC to come out and work with us. In this day in

age

we (the majority of women) don't have our mom's, grandmoms, aunts, etc to

turn to for help in this area. They just fed us bottles. I know that I

had

NO familial support....YOU guys have done a lot to keep me on with the

boob.

My family has been clueless. This is the case for most women.

I would like to see all women TRY breastfeeding- but if it doesn't work out

for them- then I'd rather they have babies with healthy emotions and good

trust because his mom knew she wouldn't meet his needs by breastfeeding. I

have a cousin whose attitude is " I'll try bfing " and I know that she'd quit

in a week. I fully intend to keep at her...by supporting her and helping

her....not nagging at her saying " breast is best, breast is best " I think

that's what our responsibility should be....to be supporters of women who

are

in trouble with bfing. Because, like I said...I don't think that breast is

best 100% of the time. A mom needs to judge what is best for HERSELF and

for

HER CHILD. That's not my job. Would you like to be forced to formula

feed?

I wouldn't.

Hope I didn't step on too many toes, I didn't mean to offend, just to shed

some light on the opposite side.

~

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[Guest guest]

The LC's at the hosptial that I got to are free. The LC's are the local WIC

center's are free, In fact I didn't know that it costs money to get an LC!

LOL

As for pumps, I could never use one anyways and alwasy found hand pumping

much easier. And I know the hospital's give a free medela manual pump if you

ASK for it and you can rent pump on a sliding scale fee, from nothing to

full price.

Breast vs. Formula

From: Mygrdntool@...

About the other message boards....I haven't been there....and I'm not trying

to disagree with angela or anyone else...just trying to shed liht on the

other side.

I'm probably not going to be very popular for saying this...but I will

anyway.

Yes...ideally, breast is best. In most mothers, the breast milk is much

better and healthier for the baby than fake formula milk. HOWEVER, let's

keep this in mind. Breastfeeding is hard. We all know that. It takes a

lot

of patience, dedication, and hard work to perfect it. Some mom's, sadly,

don't have these things. In that kind of a situation, I wonder if breast

really would be best. If a mom would be so frustrated about breastfeeding

and not do it enough (because it hurts) then is that the best for her baby?

Not necessarily. Another thing we should keep in mind is that there is

virtually NO support out there for breastfeeding women unless you search

hard

for it. Some women don't have the resources to attain this help. OBs,

Hospitals, commercials, society...all tell us to formula feed. Insurance

companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals.

I know that with my situation, I would have quit b-fing 2 weeks ago had we

not the $85 to hire the LC to come out and work with us. In this day in age

we (the majority of women) don't have our mom's, grandmoms, aunts, etc to

turn to for help in this area. They just fed us bottles. I know that I had

NO familial support....YOU guys have done a lot to keep me on with the boob.

My family has been clueless. This is the case for most women.

I would like to see all women TRY breastfeeding- but if it doesn't work out

for them- then I'd rather they have babies with healthy emotions and good

trust because his mom knew she wouldn't meet his needs by breastfeeding. I

have a cousin whose attitude is " I'll try bfing " and I know that she'd quit

in a week. I fully intend to keep at her...by supporting her and helping

her....not nagging at her saying " breast is best, breast is best " I think

that's what our responsibility should be....to be supporters of women who

are

in trouble with bfing. Because, like I said...I don't think that breast is

best 100% of the time. A mom needs to judge what is best for HERSELF and

for

HER CHILD. That's not my job. Would you like to be forced to formula feed?

I wouldn't.

Hope I didn't step on too many toes, I didn't mean to offend, just to shed

some light on the opposite side.

~

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http://www.onelist.com

Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life!

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http://www.maclee.com/breastfeeding

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[Guest guest]

,

I know what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree. For some women,

breastfeeding is simple. No latch problems, no supply problems, they just

cave in to social pressure to wean early- or give formula because it is in

some ways easier. I think a lot of women who wean their children early or

don't breastfeed at all would decide otherwise if they had all the

information. I can't tell you how many people I know who regret not

b/feeding. Most of them didn't give it a lot of thought because they

honestly didn't know HOW much better b/feeding was for their baby. Or didn't

believe it until they experienced the problems formula feeding can cause

first hand.

My SIL, (who has been discussed before) is in the health-care field and

" knew " all the facts. But since she hadn't had any problems with formula

with her first dd, she didn't really consider b/feeding her second child.

That baby is almost a year old, can only take Nutramigin, has had 2 upper

gi's, and vomits regularly. My niece screams and doubles over in pain every

time she eats. My SIL has called me countless times in the last month,

lamenting her decision. She cries herself to sleep over the pain her

daughter is in. She wishes now that she knew ALL the facts before she

decided to feed her baby formula. She loves her children as much as any

breast-feeding mom, and practices A-P in almost every other respect. Her

family and friends don't breastfeed, and weren't able to provide any support

for her. Although my two sisters and I have breastfed all of our children,

she didn't feel close enough to any of us to ask for help re-lactating. I

could kick myself now for not giving her MORE information, MORE lectures,

MORE persuasion. I should have DRAGGED her to a LLL meeting when she was

pregnant, but I didn't want to alienate her or offend my brother.

So anyway- I do think breast is best- just about 100% of the time. It is the

food that nature intended babies to have. If you are not mature enough to

get past your inhibitions, then you shouldn't be having children anyway. If

you're so emotionally crippled that you are unable to provide your baby with

nourishment, then what is going to happen to those children in the long run?

I understand that there are women who are unable to breastfeed, for medical

or physical reasons, and I think formula should be available to them- by

prescription.

So I think that our responsibility is more than just supporting b/fing moms

having trouble. I think it is our responsibility to educate the people we

come in contact with and eventually change our society's view of infant

nutrition. It took one generation for breastfeeding to go from the norm to

virtually non-existent. It is possible to reverse this trend in our

generation.

Sorry if this is too radical for y'all

- see why I didn't feel I should post on that board?? Wasn't up for dealing

with flames.

Tammy

>

> From: Mygrdntool@...

>

> About the other message boards....I haven't been there....and I'm

> not trying

> to disagree with angela or anyone else...just trying to shed liht on the

> other side.

>

> I'm probably not going to be very popular for saying this...but I

> will anyway.

>

> Yes...ideally, breast is best. In most mothers, the breast milk is much

> better and healthier for the baby than fake formula milk. HOWEVER, let's

> keep this in mind. Breastfeeding is hard. We all know that. It

> takes a lot

> of patience, dedication, and hard work to perfect it. Some mom's, sadly,

> don't have these things. In that kind of a situation, I wonder if breast

> really would be best. If a mom would be so frustrated about

> breastfeeding

> and not do it enough (because it hurts) then is that the best for

> her baby?

> Not necessarily. Another thing we should keep in mind is that there is

> virtually NO support out there for breastfeeding women unless you

> search hard

> for it. Some women don't have the resources to attain this help. OBs,

> Hospitals, commercials, society...all tell us to formula feed. Insurance

> companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals.

> I know that with my situation, I would have quit b-fing 2 weeks

> ago had we

> not the $85 to hire the LC to come out and work with us. In this

> day in age

> we (the majority of women) don't have our mom's, grandmoms, aunts, etc to

> turn to for help in this area. They just fed us bottles. I know

> that I had

> NO familial support....YOU guys have done a lot to keep me on

> with the boob.

> My family has been clueless. This is the case for most women.

> I would like to see all women TRY breastfeeding- but if it

> doesn't work out

> for them- then I'd rather they have babies with healthy emotions and good

> trust because his mom knew she wouldn't meet his needs by

> breastfeeding. I

> have a cousin whose attitude is " I'll try bfing " and I know that

> she'd quit

> in a week. I fully intend to keep at her...by supporting her and helping

> her....not nagging at her saying " breast is best, breast is best "

> I think

> that's what our responsibility should be....to be supporters of

> women who are

> in trouble with bfing. Because, like I said...I don't think that

> breast is

> best 100% of the time. A mom needs to judge what is best for

> HERSELF and for

> HER CHILD. That's not my job. Would you like to be forced to

> formula feed?

> I wouldn't.

> Hope I didn't step on too many toes, I didn't mean to offend,

> just to shed

> some light on the opposite side.

>

> ~

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Congratulations to " M-K-ROSES, " our latest ONElist of the Week.

> http://www.onelist.com

> Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life!

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Breastfeeding is Best!!

> http://www.maclee.com/breastfeeding

>

> If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

[Guest guest]

Flaming isn't necessary if someone disagrees with you. ;-)

>

> ~

You're absolutely right. That's why I love this list so much. I've never

seen people deal with emotionally-charged topics with such restraint and

respect for others. Unfortunately, finding such a wonderful group of people

just doesn't happen that often.

Tammy

>>

> From: Mygrdntool@...

>

> In a message dated 99-05-31 01:16:28 EDT, you write:

>

> << Sorry if this is too radical for y'all

> - see why I didn't feel I should post on that board?? Wasn't up

> for dealing

> with flames. >>

>

> Having different opinions are what makes the world go 'round.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways!

> http://www.onelist.com

> Are you? If not, see our homepage for details.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Breastfeeding is Best!!

> http://www.maclee.com/breastfeeding

>

> If you like this list also check out

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

[Guest guest]

,

Part of the reason I want to become a leader is because you need so many

hours to sit for the lactation consultant boards. I want to become a

midwife who is also a certified LC.

Wendi

Re: Breast vs. Formula

From: Mygrdntool@...

In a message dated 99-05-31 00:13:54 EDT, you write:

<< Of course the only way this would work is if women had free

access to lactation consultants. I am going to do my part by helping as

many women as possible.

>>

Wendi~

I commend you. After all of my ordeals, I've been considering becoming a

certified lactation consultant and working on a volunteer basis through the

LLLI. I haven't found a LLL leader in my area who will do a home

visit...and

I've been stuck in that I developed severe problems where there wasn't a

meeting for 4 weeks ;-(

I agree with the points you've made. I feel that not only is formula TOO

available...but that it is pushed upon mothers (like I mentioned). I know

that in the hospital I delivered in there was only one LC (who I don't

think

was very good) and none of the L & D nurses knew much about nursing. They

also

gave my son bottles of sugar water, water, and formula against my wishes.

Is

it any wonder why we've had difficulties? ;-)

I do think that there needs to be MORE HELP available to those women who

make

the choice to bf. I think THAT will be MUCH more effective than just

screaming " Breast is Best " Support is so important.

~

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/30/99 10:31:59 PM Central Daylight Time,

Mygrdntool@... writes:

<< Insurance

companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals. >>

Some do but you can ALWAYS take off the pump rental off your taxes under

medical equpment I htink it was. I know I did!!

Amy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/30/99 11:24:56 PM Central Daylight Time,

mariaw@... writes:

<< And I know the hospital's give a free medela manual pump if you

ASK for it and you can rent pump on a sliding scale fee, from nothing to

full price. >>

Only a few hospitals do give out pumps and sliding scales only work if you

don't make alot of money as does WIC. So if you have just a little bit above

totally broke then you are really screwed

Amy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/99 12:16:23 AM Central Daylight Time,

tcp@... writes:

<< Sorry if this is too radical for y'all

- see why I didn't feel I should post on that board?? Wasn't up for dealing

with flames. >>

Not to radical for me I agree 100% I would really like to see more

breastfeeding in public. I think it helps alot to show people that it can be

done in a non offensive manner.

On a side note I was at a thing for my hubbys work the other day and there

was a lady trying to latch on her baby sitting down in a chair over on one

wall and a sucrity gard went up to her. I assumed it was to tell her to stop

doing that her so I started to walk over there to tell him what he could go

do with himself (nicly of course) and my husband about died but when I got

closer I heard him say. " I know your doing the best thing you could for your

child and it is sooo important but your sitting in the clowns chair could you

go use that chair over there " I just had to laugh hehehehe

Amy

[Guest guest]

>About the other message boards....I haven't been there....and I'm not trying

>to disagree with angela or anyone else...just trying to shed liht on the

>other side.

>

For heavens sake you guys... I am NOT a breastfeeding expert! I am just a

mom with strong opinions. Please, if you disagree with me, please say

so! I am open to ideas, which is how I learned in the first place, and

welcome the chance to broaden my opinions!

>Breastfeeding is hard. We all know that. It takes a lot of patience,

dedication, and hard work to perfect it.

Seriously, I think breastfeeding is easier than planning a weekend with

formula. I think breastfeeding would be MUCH easier if it were a natural

topic for discussion, just as drinking bottled water is, or how many

bottles a baby takes. Its only hard because we as new moms dont know much

about it.

>If a mom would be so frustrated about breastfeeding

>and not do it enough (because it hurts) then is that the best for her baby?

Is she really frustrated *because* it hurts, or because she doesnt know

*why* it hurts, and if she knew how to fix it she would?

>Another thing we should keep in mind is that there is

>virtually NO support out there for breastfeeding women unless you search

hard

>for it. Some women don't have the resources to attain this help. OBs,

>Hospitals, commercials, society...all tell us to formula feed. Insurance

>companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals.

THATs THE KEY!! If it were okay to practice breastfeeding, discuss

breastfeeding, and WATCH another mother breastfeed in public, then this

wouldnt be an issue. Even at LLL meetings, it is awkward still to watch a

mother breastfeed. It makes the watcher feel naughty, like a voyuer, and

the watchee feel uncomfortable, like she was doing something wrong. Yet we

watch people bottle feed without second though. I love seeing pictures of

babies nursing... its things I cant see anywhere else. When I asked my DH

to take a pic of me nursing , he balked at first and said that he

wouldnt get my breast in the pic, and he didnt. I only wanted it because

thats the way I will remember s first 6-7 months of his life.

>I would like to see all women TRY breastfeeding- but if it doesn't work out

>for them- then I'd rather they have babies with healthy emotions and good

>trust because his mom knew she wouldn't meet his needs by breastfeeding. I

If it were socially understood that the only reasons for not breastfeeding

were HIV, mastectomy, cancer therapy or mental illness, which by the way

are the only reasons the AAP says mothers should NOT breastfeed, then more

women wouldnt think that it just doesnt work out.

>A mom needs to judge what is best for HERSELF and for HER CHILD.

If this same mom will tell you breast milk is BEST but she chooses to

formula feed, shes choosing not to give her child the BEST whether or not

she thinks of it that way.

>Would you like to be forced to formula feed?

You *were* forced to formula feed if you werent a breastfed child. Knowing

that your IQ might have been 10 points higher, knowing that you might have

permanent immunity to the common cold, protection from breast cancer,

diabetes, and GI disease, would you choose to drink formula? If your baby

could tell you which he wanted, would he say, Give me the very best for

optimum growth, or Give me something that will make me Just Fine?

>Hope I didn't step on too many toes, I didn't mean to offend, just to shed

>some light on the opposite side.

Same here. I have just been my own devils advocate for so long, I know

that I can say some things that I am comfortable hearing while others arent.

[Guest guest]

>I haven't found a LLL leader in my area who will do a home visit...and

>I've been stuck in that I developed severe problems where there wasn't a

>meeting for 4 weeks ;-(

My friend told me that some Leaders dont do home visits because of bad

experiences in the past with insincere/dishonest people. I guess it

depends o that, plus where you live. Maybe if you asked to meet at a

neutral location (a church or school) or at the Leaders house?

>They also

>gave my son bottles of sugar water, water, and formula against my wishes.

Is

>it any wonder why we've had difficulties? ;-)

What if it were considered assault and battery against the child if he were

given bottles or pacifiers in the hospital against the mothers directions?

Did you know that giving a patient medication against their wishes is

considered assault and battery? Formula, sugar water or any supplement is

only supposed to be given when medically indicated, and at that point is

considered medicine by definition.

I was pretty adamant about bottles and pacifiers when was in the

hospital. After we learned that he had a heart defect, that

overfilling his tummy with low-calorie things could cost him his life, I

was very thankful I had been firm in that decision.

>I do think that there needs to be MORE HELP available to those women who

make

>the choice to bf. I think THAT will be MUCH more effective than just

>screaming " Breast is Best " Support is so important.

>

Support can mean the difference between success and failure. When you

breastfeed in public, you provide educational support to women who have

breastfed babies, bottle fed babies, unborn babies, or no babies. They see

a natural act occurring, and in a pinch, could recall that the babys head

goes here, and the feet there.. and sometimes thats all it takes!

What will we do if on January 1, 2000, all the worlds water supplies and

electrical supplies stop for four weeks due to an overlooked error in the

Y2K software? What will all these formula dependent moms do? Those that

may have some milk left, or have friends with milk left, may be able to

recall that mom nursing her baby on the courthouse steps last summer and

remember that it goes like this.

[Guest guest]

>My SIL, (who has been discussed before) is in the health-care field and

> " knew " all the facts. But since she hadn't had any problems with formula

>with her first dd, she didn't really consider b/feeding her second child.

>That baby is almost a year old, can only take Nutramigin, has had 2 upper

>gi's, and vomits regularly. My niece screams and doubles over in pain every

>time she eats. My SIL has called me countless times in the last month,

>lamenting her decision. She cries herself to sleep over the pain her

>daughter is in. She wishes now that she knew ALL the facts before she

>decided to feed her baby formula. She loves her children as much as any

>breast-feeding mom, and practices A-P in almost every other respect. Her

>family and friends don't breastfeed, and weren't able to provide any support

>for her. Although my two sisters and I have breastfed all of our children,

>she didn't feel close enough to any of us to ask for help re-lactating. I

>could kick myself now for not giving her MORE information, MORE lectures,

>MORE persuasion. I should have DRAGGED her to a LLL meeting when she was

>pregnant, but I didn't want to alienate her or offend my brother.

>

It is hard saying this to someone with their arms folded, insisting that

despite what you say, they will formula feed... especially when the BIGGEST

variable is the one thing research cant tell us -- what our childs needs

will be tomorrow.

>Sorry if this is too radical for y'all

>- see why I didn't feel I should post on that board?? Wasn't up for dealing

>with flames.

This is why I think you should post there. If you do, I cant back you

up anymore. The board manager, , has apparently locked me out. When

I load the URL (http://forums.delphi.com/ultimatebaby/messages) I get sent

to Delphis home page... however, when I use my alternate username on

Delphi, it takes me there. Apparently, she couldnt get past her negative

feelings about me (or breastfeeding) and have an honest discussion.

[Guest guest]

>Do you have to qualify for WIC to use their services? If so, that wouldn't

>have worked for me either ;-( Also, I didn't even know that WIC had them.

>See....women don't know what services are available to them ;-(

Your BABY can qualify for WIC, even if you make way too much, because of a

dietary need... and WIC supports breastfeeding fully. If they have Peer

Counselors or a LC on staff, you should be able to use those services at no

cost.

[Guest guest]

>Having different opinions are what makes the world go 'round.

>

>Flaming isn't necessary if someone disagrees with you. ;-)

My thoughts exactly!

There are two sayings that are my favorites about this:

A mind works like a parachute: Its best when its open.

and

Dont be so open-minded that your brains fall out.

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree. At least from what I've been seeing is that the

hospitals here in CA are all for bfing. In fact, the first thing the NP

asked me during my first prenatal visit was weither or not I was going to

BF. With my 1st child it was hard to do because he couldn't latch on to the

breast and when he did he didn't get a whole lot. I am beginning to wonder

if the stress I felt with everything going on with him had done something

with drying my breasts up quicker. I have to agree though that the support

that I got from the hospital was nill to nothing which made me feel

frustrated and mad.

Just my 10 cents worth.

Breast vs. Formula

> From: Mygrdntool@...

>

> About the other message boards....I haven't been there....and I'm not

trying

> to disagree with angela or anyone else...just trying to shed liht on the

> other side.

>

> I'm probably not going to be very popular for saying this...but I will

anyway.

>

> Yes...ideally, breast is best. In most mothers, the breast milk is much

> better and healthier for the baby than fake formula milk. HOWEVER, let's

> keep this in mind. Breastfeeding is hard. We all know that. It takes a

lot

> of patience, dedication, and hard work to perfect it. Some mom's, sadly,

> don't have these things. In that kind of a situation, I wonder if breast

> really would be best. If a mom would be so frustrated about breastfeeding

> and not do it enough (because it hurts) then is that the best for her

baby?

> Not necessarily. Another thing we should keep in mind is that there is

> virtually NO support out there for breastfeeding women unless you search

hard

> for it. Some women don't have the resources to attain this help. OBs,

> Hospitals, commercials, society...all tell us to formula feed. Insurance

> companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals.

> I know that with my situation, I would have quit b-fing 2 weeks ago had we

> not the $85 to hire the LC to come out and work with us. In this day in

age

> we (the majority of women) don't have our mom's, grandmoms, aunts, etc to

> turn to for help in this area. They just fed us bottles. I know that I

had

> NO familial support....YOU guys have done a lot to keep me on with the

boob.

> My family has been clueless. This is the case for most women.

> I would like to see all women TRY breastfeeding- but if it doesn't work

out

> for them- then I'd rather they have babies with healthy emotions and good

> trust because his mom knew she wouldn't meet his needs by breastfeeding.

I

> have a cousin whose attitude is " I'll try bfing " and I know that she'd

quit

> in a week. I fully intend to keep at her...by supporting her and helping

> her....not nagging at her saying " breast is best, breast is best " I think

> that's what our responsibility should be....to be supporters of women who

are

> in trouble with bfing. Because, like I said...I don't think that breast

is

> best 100% of the time. A mom needs to judge what is best for HERSELF and

for

> HER CHILD. That's not my job. Would you like to be forced to formula

feed?

> I wouldn't.

> Hope I didn't step on too many toes, I didn't mean to offend, just to shed

> some light on the opposite side.

>

> ~

>

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[Guest guest]

I am not sure if you have to quilify for week to see their LC. I also don't

quilify but I have a friend who did and saw an LC for free. At the hospial I

delivered at there were about 10 free LC's. They also also a breastfeeding

class every wednesday that you can take all your other kids too also and

they have LC's there, Also totally free.

Re: Breast vs. Formula

From: Mygrdntool@...

In a message dated 99-05-31 00:24:56 EDT, you write:

<< The LC's at the hosptial that I got to are free. >>

I called the LC at my hospital...she doesn't do anything else other than

treat patients.

<<The LC's are the local WIC

center's are free, In fact I didn't know that it costs money to get an LC!>>

Do you have to qualify for WIC to use their services? If so, that wouldn't

have worked for me either ;-( Also, I didn't even know that WIC had them.

See....women don't know what services are available to them ;-(

~

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[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say that it is important to remember that there is

no such thing as offensive breast feeding.

--- Feb98@... wrote:

> From: Feb98@...

>

> In a message dated 5/31/99 12:16:23 AM Central

> Daylight Time,

> tcp@... writes:

>

> << Sorry if this is too radical for y'all

> - see why I didn't feel I should post on that

> board?? Wasn't up for dealing

> with flames. >>

>

> Not to radical for me I agree 100% I would really

> like to see more

> breastfeeding in public. I think it helps alot to

> show people that it can be

> done in a non offensive manner.

>

> On a side note I was at a thing for my hubbys work

> the other day and there

> was a lady trying to latch on her baby sitting down

> in a chair over on one

> wall and a sucrity gard went up to her. I assumed it

> was to tell her to stop

> doing that her so I started to walk over there to

> tell him what he could go

> do with himself (nicly of course) and my husband

> about died but when I got

> closer I heard him say. " I know your doing the best

> thing you could for your

> child and it is sooo important but your sitting in

> the clowns chair could you

> go use that chair over there " I just had to laugh

> hehehehe

>

> Amy

>

>

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>

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_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

You know what, I have spent lots of time in my life looking for differences

in the nutritional values of formula vs. breast milk, and the differences

in protective properties between formula vs. breast milk.

After you exhaust the differences in nutritional value, the formula side is

really empty. Even under nutritional value, unless breastfeeding is

absolutely not an option (like the mother is dead!) then and only then is

formula the better choice.

Formula doesnt make your love deepen, it doesnt imprint the smell of your

*baby* onto your memory, it doesnt imprint *your* smell onto the babys

memory, it doesnt foster loving touch, or empathetic understanding, or

nurturing, or self-worth, or ... gosh, I could list lots more things.

The only benefit formula has over breastfeeding is convenience for the

mother. Anything worth having isnt going to be easy/convenient. Why is

this so hard to grasp?

[Guest guest]

,

I think that was well spoken, and I am one that also feels similar to

you. I feel that if you push to hard you can cause a mother to feel

smothered and not want to do it just because you are bugging her too much.

I try to be a passive breastfeeding supporter. If I find out someone is

preg I ask if they are going to bf and then let them know that if they need

any support or have any questions to please ask me. I try not to be pushy

because I feel over all that it is the mothers decision. I don't want to

offend the mother, and ruin all chances of her maybe making the choice to

breastfeed.

I think that women who have good experiences breastfeeding want everyone to

have that greatness, and I know I am overwhelmed at times and just want to

make every mother out there do it, because I think it is such a wonderful

thing! But I exercise caution when approaching others about it, because it

isn't mainstream. I really wish it was mainstream and maybe by being a

passive supporter I will help that happen.

My main thing is, that I don't want any mother to ever feel like she is not

as good of a parent as I am because of her decision to bottlefeed. I

would feel horrible If I ever made anyone feel badly about whichever

decision they chose to make. Jenn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/99 11:56:29 AM Central Daylight Time,

angehowe@... writes:

<< Even under nutritional value, unless breastfeeding is

absolutely not an option (like the mother is dead!) >>

No then the better option woud be milk from a milk bank.

Amy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/99 11:56:29 AM Central Daylight Time,

angehowe@... writes:

<< The only benefit formula has over breastfeeding is convenience for the

mother. Anything worth having isnt going to be easy/convenient. Why is

this so hard to grasp? >>

Whoever sade formula was easy hasn't used formula in awhile. I NEVER had to

get up in the middle of the night and make a bottle or wash out and starlaze

nipples. I never had to boil water and cool it while my baby was crying cause

it was time to eat and I didn't have any bottles already made. I dididn't

have to lug around bottles and powdered formula or premade bottles with

somthing to keep it warm in all the time. I could go anywhere anytime run out

the door with some diapers and some wipes and I was SET for the day. If that

isn't easier I don't know what is.

My son never had to wait for a bottle to be fixed. or bottles to be cleaned

or anything like that. In fact he did have to have formula for a litttle

while while I was trying to correct a low supply and he didn't even sleep a

second longer on formula then mommys milk so I don't really buy the sleep

thing anyway.

Amy

[Guest guest]

:

I think you make some valid points. But I guess what irks

me about the women on that board is that they weren't even

willing to try, given all the scientific evidence that

breast is best. I don't see how anyone with all the facts

can't want to at least *try* as hard as possible to

breastfeed their baby.

Just my .02,

mom to Bart 1/22/99

--- Mygrdntool@... wrote:

> From: Mygrdntool@...

>

> About the other message boards....I haven't been

> there....and I'm not trying

> to disagree with angela or anyone else...just trying to

> shed liht on the

> other side.

>

> I'm probably not going to be very popular for saying

> this...but I will anyway.

>

> Yes...ideally, breast is best. In most mothers, the

> breast milk is much

> better and healthier for the baby than fake formula milk.

> HOWEVER, let's

> keep this in mind. Breastfeeding is hard. We all know

> that. It takes a lot

> of patience, dedication, and hard work to perfect it.

> Some mom's, sadly,

> don't have these things. In that kind of a situation, I

> wonder if breast

> really would be best. If a mom would be so frustrated

> about breastfeeding

> and not do it enough (because it hurts) then is that the

> best for her baby?

> Not necessarily. Another thing we should keep in mind is

> that there is

> virtually NO support out there for breastfeeding women

> unless you search hard

> for it. Some women don't have the resources to attain

> this help. OBs,

> Hospitals, commercials, society...all tell us to formula

> feed. Insurance

> companies don't even cover LC charges or pump rentals.

> I know that with my situation, I would have quit b-fing 2

> weeks ago had we

> not the $85 to hire the LC to come out and work with us.

> In this day in age

> we (the majority of women) don't have our mom's,

> grandmoms, aunts, etc to

> turn to for help in this area. They just fed us bottles.

> I know that I had

> NO familial support....YOU guys have done a lot to keep

> me on with the boob.

> My family has been clueless. This is the case for most

> women.

> I would like to see all women TRY breastfeeding- but if

> it doesn't work out

> for them- then I'd rather they have babies with healthy

> emotions and good

> trust because his mom knew she wouldn't meet his needs by

> breastfeeding. I

> have a cousin whose attitude is " I'll try bfing " and I

> know that she'd quit

> in a week. I fully intend to keep at her...by supporting

> her and helping

> her....not nagging at her saying " breast is best, breast

> is best " I think

> that's what our responsibility should be....to be

> supporters of women who are

> in trouble with bfing. Because, like I said...I don't

> think that breast is

> best 100% of the time. A mom needs to judge what is best

> for HERSELF and for

> HER CHILD. That's not my job. Would you like to be

> forced to formula feed?

> I wouldn't.

> Hope I didn't step on too many toes, I didn't mean to

> offend, just to shed

> some light on the opposite side.

>

> ~

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Congratulations to " M-K-ROSES, " our latest ONElist of the

> Week.

> http://www.onelist.com

> Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is

> changing YOUR life!

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Breastfeeding is Best!!

> http://www.maclee.com/breastfeeding

>

> If you like this list also check out

> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/weanedbuddies

>

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/99 10:27:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

angehowe@... writes:

<< What if it were considered assault and battery against the child if he were

given bottles or pacifiers in the hospital against the mothers directions?

Did you know that giving a patient medication against their wishes is

considered assault and battery? Formula, sugar water or any supplement is

only supposed to be given when medically indicated, and at that point is

considered medicine by definition.

>>

I would support that notion. Believe me I was not a happy camper. I

couldn't do rooming-in with Holden because of my C-section I couldn't get out

of bed if he cried in the middle of the night. So, I told the nurses to

bring him to me when he needed feeding or comforting. I said I don't care if

it's 1000 times thru the night...BRING HIM TO ME.

On our last night, he was particularly cranky. After 2 interruptions of

sleep, the nurse asked me if I would like for her to just give him a bottle.

I said " absolutely not, and no pacifiers, I am breastfeeding " Sure enough,

when he was wheeled to my room for the next feeding...there sat the pacifier.

I wish I had the option of having a home birth next time ;-(

<<Support can mean the difference between success and failure. When you

breastfeed in public, you provide educational support to women who have

breastfed babies, bottle fed babies, unborn babies, or no babies.>>

I never thought of that idea. I'm still a little shy and awkward about doing

the NIP thing ;-)

~AManda