Guest guest Posted September 6, 2000 Report Share Posted September 6, 2000 Click on " Affidavits " and read the affidavits of and Vaughan Young. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I can't believe that Dr. Szasz would ally himself > >with > > > > > the > > > > > > practices of scientology, to the extent that they actually > > > > consist > > > > > of > > > > > > a different method of brain-shrinking than contemporary > > > > psychiatry > > > > > > endorses, and additionally, are far more coercive than most > > > > > > psychiatric practices are. > > > > > > > > > > Kayleigh, > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe that he does either, but you have brought up > > > > > something > > > > > that may come into the picture. How can Scientology be more > > > > coercive > > > > > than institutional psychiatry when a person can walk away from > > > > > Scientology, and in many cases are incarcerated or under threat > > > of > > > > > incarceration by institutional psychiatry including coerced AA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tommy > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ___ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2000 Report Share Posted September 6, 2000 I don't recall off the top of my head what your experience with 12 steps consisted of, but I assure you, scientology is far more intrusive, deceitful, isolating and intense. Some of the members of this list have confessed to an extreme difficult in leaving the 12-step mode of thinking. I have had myself. I think I had gotten rid of everything doctrinal, or perhaps hadn't bought into much of it in the first place, but I still persisted in believing I needed a " program " until a kind counselor encountered on 12-step-free assured me that I did not. That seemed like a kind of meta-belief, not really an AA belief, but until he said that, it had never occurred to me. It was a true moment of enlightenment. Gosh, if you think scientology would be easy to walk away from, why are you participating in this list? > <snip> > > >>Probably the most famous case of someone who was not free to walk > away from Scientology is McPherson. > > http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/room174.html>>> > > Stuart, > The way I see it, she had her entire adult life to walk away from them but > chose to remain. She was a big girl who was well aware of what they were > about--over 20 years experience. The tragick > circumstances of her death don't change this fact. > > Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2000 Report Share Posted September 6, 2000 > Dave and Stuart, > > Thanks for the info. Thank you too, Kayleigh. How thoughtless of me. Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2000 Report Share Posted September 6, 2000 No offense taken. > > Dave and Stuart, > > > > Thanks for the info. > > Thank you too, Kayleigh. How thoughtless of me. > > Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2000 Report Share Posted September 7, 2000 The following arrived this morning in my inbox -- don't recall subscribing to any such outfit, but there are obvious links with our preoccupations. The idea that AA is " Spiritism " at no. 6 below I find interesting -- not sure what they mean, but it's fine with me to have a Christian source claiming that XA has nothing to do with Xtianity and is indeed EVIL in terms of Xtian theology. Also, I find it very interesting to see that this material yokes together XA, Masonry, New World Order , etc , as different facets of same evil set-up -- Scientology is El Ron H.'s own little black magic outfit -- grew straight out of the Crowley lodges plus Hubbard's Sci-Fi spin. If you would like to be removed from this newsletter at anytime just click the link below but make sure that the window is wide enough that the RUL is all on one line. http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletter/remove.cfm?email=doug_houstonhotmail This newsletter was sent on 06-Sep-00 at 09:05 PM: ADDITONAL CUTTING EDGE RESOURCES ANNOUNCEMENT We have received many questions about additional resources about Freemasonry, the occult, and contemporary American culture that go beyond what we list in our Bookstore. We are humbly grateful to be able to offer the following books that we are buying directly from the authors, books that we believe receive too little distribution, even though they are highly instructive. We are carrying the following books, for the enlightenment of our audience: " The New Genocide of Handicapped and Afflicted People " , by Dr. Wolf Wolfensberger -This is the book so controversial that Dr. Wolfensberger could not get it printed, even though he is an established author! A Holocaust survivor and trainer of nurses to work with Handicapped people at Syracuse University, Dr. Wolfensberger is in a unique position to document that American hospitals and senior care facilities are killing more people than Adolf Hitler ever did and for the same Satanic, New World Order reasons. If you have any loved ones who are handicapped in any way, or elderly parents, you need to read this book! This information may save the life of someone you love with all your heart! Not available in bookstores. Dr. Burns is a Born Again Christian researcher and author of the highest degree. Certainly, her books have never received the wide degree of distribution they most certainly deserve. The Cutting Edge Ministries uses her materials very extensively. Many of the requests of our subscribers for additional materials could be answered by Dr. Burns' books. We are offering the following eleven (11) books from Dr Burns: 1. " Masonic & Occult Symbols Illustrated " , with 728 pictures and illustrations. This book is one of the most significant books that reveal the Satanic nature of Freemasonry. Dr. Burns extensively documents her Masonic sources, sometimes giving 5-8 sources for the same symbol. When Dr. Burns demonstrates that Freemasonry uses the same symbols as do White and Black Magic Satanists, you can rest assured she has proven her case! This book is most important for any student of Masonry to possess. 2. " Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star " illustrates the disgusting fact that Masonry reserves Satan's most hideous symbol of all -- the Goats Head of Mendes -- for the main symbol of the Eastern Star, which is the organization set up for Masonic ladies. Further, some of the most Satanic teachings are given to these ladies, when they thought they were just joining a social club as a counterbalance to the Lodge their husbands have joined! This book is also most important for any student of Masonry. 3. " Mormonism, Masonry, and Godhood " is very important because it accurately and effectively proves the direct link from Freemasonry to Mormonism. After reading this book, you will understand how Masonry did create Mormonism in order to more split the true, genuine Christian Church. 4. " Secure In Christ " is written from a ladies' heart, as Dr. Burns demonstrates from Scripture how the Christian should be as assured of Heaven as if they were already there. 5. " A One World Order Is Coming " is a great primer for those who do not know much about the coming Kingdom of Antichrist, also known as the New World Order. 6. " Alcoholics Anonymous " , Dr. Burns demonstrates the troubling un-Biblical basis for Alcoholics and then proves the Spiritism basis really present in A.A. In this End Time era of unparalleled deception, A.A. unfortunately is no exception to the rule. You will be shocked. 7. " Hidden Secrets of Masonry " is a good primer for those who do not know much about the organization that is leading the fight to establish Antichrist. You will discover that Masonry is deliberately organized into a Outer, Visible Fraternity and an Inner, Invisible Fraternity. 8. " A Scriptural View Of Hell " -- once again, with the unparalleled deception going on in our society today, including within the Church, you need to know the Biblical facts on Hell. 9. " Pathway To Peace " -- Dr. Burns writes from her heart to all people who do not know the " Peace That Passes All Understanding " . 10. " Little Known Facts About Focus On The Family " -- Cutting Edge Ministries became concerned about the direction of Dr. Dobson and Focus On The Family when they published the terribly unBiblical Promise Keepers book. Dr. Burns documents her concerns about Focus On The Family going back many years. After reading this book, you will understand how Focus On The Family could issue a conditional authorization of the deeply Satanic Harry Potter books. To be able to order these books, go to our Home Page at www.cuttingedge.org and then click on the " Bookstore " button. You will then be able to order one or more of these books by going to the Section #1, entitled " Books Available From Cutting Edge " . Sections #2 - #6 are available to purchase through Amazon.com, but are reviewed by Cutting Edge. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2000 Report Share Posted September 7, 2000 K, <<I don't recall off the top of my head what your experience with 12 steps consisted of, but I assure you, scientology is far more intrusive, deceitful, isolating and intense.<<< Your recall appears to be selective. Btw, on what do you base your assurance? Are you a scientologist or an ex member? Or Is this your conclusion based on reading links critical of CO$ that I have posted? >>Gosh, if you think scientology would be easy to walk away from, why are you participating in this list?>> Gee, thanks for the warm welcome. Where did I say CO$ was easy to walk away from?? I do believe people are responsible for their actions. Unlike CO$, countless people are forced into the XA cult by the state. I find this even more trajic than someone getting lost in the ridiculous CO$ scam in order to become a " superman. " JIm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 Doug, Just read your post tonight and found it disturbing. I would not trust the source as I consider 'Fundamentalism' just as cult-like as any other form of 'mental coercion'. If you have not subscribed to their 'service' then, have you asked yourself where they got your name? My reaction is that it could be that this, and other lists, are monitored (as well as newsgroups); any books you tend to buy are either monitored or the list your name is on is sold. I have wondered if it has not been the 'fundamentalists' who have spread the rumors about the 'great conspiracy' as well as capitalized on the general disenchantment with such groups as AA. Any thoughts? Ellen > The following arrived this morning in my inbox -- don't recall subscribing > to any such outfit, but there are obvious links with our preoccupations. > The idea that AA is " Spiritism " at no. 6 below I find interesting -- not > sure what they mean, but it's fine with me to have a Christian source > claiming that XA has nothing to do with Xtianity and is indeed EVIL in terms > > of Xtian theology. Also, I find it very interesting to see that this > material yokes together XA, Masonry, New World Order , etc , as different > facets of same evil set-up -- Scientology is El Ron H.'s own little black > magic outfit -- grew straight out of the Crowley lodges plus Hubbard's > Sci-Fi spin. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 I don't know why you call my recall selective, however, I base my knowledge of scientology entirely upon the links I have read that were posted on this list, and the links I have followed from those pages. I don't mean to appear unwelcoming, it just seems to me that if you believe that McPherson was a big girl and could walk away from scientology any time she wanted, then what's the big deal about walking away from AA? Why would anyone need to participate in a list to help them do that? I find the scientology links fascinating because of the difficulty I have dealing with black and white thinking. Most of this list's members do not believe that " alcoholism " is a disease, but a lot of people who hold this view maintain that therefore it is a choice. I think we can all admit that black and white thinking was one of the major characteristics that we found repugnant about AA, and yet veering to the other extreme is also black and white. There is a whole spectrum, along which I think we could all agree that people do not have free choice: the mentally retarded and mentally ill do not, for example. It's socially acceptable to believe this. Where it becomes fuzzier is when brainwashing or abuse is involved. It seems to me that brainwashing robs people of free choice just as much as mental retardation or illness, but of course this would not constitute a legal defense (as it did not when 11 defendant, including L. Ron Hubbard's wife, were sent to prison for infiltrating the IRS, DEA and other federal agencies). Severe child abuse -- should that be a legal defense? How can we believe that a child is abused until the magical 18th birthday, when suddenly he is deemed to be fully adult and able to make rational choices, and if he does not make rational choices, is deemed to be evil? I find this question disturbing, as I do the choice:powerlessness dichotomy in views of alcoholism. The scientology sites are very illuminating to me, and I've spent a lot of time this week on them, to the detriment of other things I might have been doing. My husband is very puzzled by this development. At any rate, I certainly did not intend any offense. By the way, I have tried to reply two other times to your post, and this is my third attempt. Cyberspace ate the others, and if it eats this one, I think I will give up. > K, > > <<I don't recall off the top of my head what your experience with 12 > steps consisted of, but I assure you, scientology is far more > intrusive, deceitful, isolating and intense.<<< > > Your recall appears to be selective. Btw, on what do you base your > assurance? Are you a scientologist or an ex member? Or Is this your > conclusion based on reading links critical of CO$ that I have posted? > > > >>Gosh, if you think scientology would be easy to walk away from, why > are you participating in this list?>> > > Gee, thanks for the warm welcome. Where did I say CO$ was easy to walk away > from?? I do believe people are responsible for their actions. Unlike CO$, > countless people are forced into the XA cult by the state. I find this even > more trajic than someone getting lost in the ridiculous CO$ scam in order to > become a " superman. " > JIm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 Who is son? jan > > > That's a lot to look through. Can anyone give me even a hint > where > > I can > > > find an account of someone who is or was not free to walk away > from > > > Scientology. > > > > > > > Probably the most famous case of someone who was not free to walk > > away from Scientology is McPherson. > > > > http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/room174.html > > > > Police say McPherson, 36, entered the Fort on Hotel, > > Scientology's Clearwater headquarters, in November 1995. They say > she > > was physically healthy but psychologically disturbed. Seventeen > days > > later she died. An autopsy determined her death was due to a blood > > clot brought on by ``severe dehydration'' and ``bed rest.'' > Pinellas- > > Pasco Medical Examiner Joan Wood has said the medical evidence > > indicates McPherson went without fluids for five to 10 days, > possibly > > longer, and was comatose for at least 24 hours before she died. > Bites > > on her hands were most likely made by cockroaches, Wood has said. > > (Tampa Tribune, June 1, 1997) > > > > Two Scientology programs call for false imprisonment. > > http://www.scientology-lies.com/imprisonment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 Jan, son spent many years in a mental hospital in Florida against his will. He had commited no crime nor had even been charged with one. His case reached the Supreme Court. He was released as an old man and wrote a book called " Insanity Inside Out " . I tried to post the URL for the book at amazon.com but it was long and did not take. Go to amazon.com and select books and type his name in the search engine and it will pop up. I think there are about twenty or so reviews that equal a 4.5 star. Szasz devoted a book called " Psychiatric Slavery " to the son case criticizing the defense because they chose to defend son on the grounds that he was not insane rather than on the grounds that no one should be imprisoned who has not commited a crime. Tommy > > > > That's a lot to look through. Can anyone give me even a hint > > where > > > I can > > > > find an account of someone who is or was not free to walk away > > from > > > > Scientology. > > > > > > > > > > Probably the most famous case of someone who was not free to walk > > > away from Scientology is McPherson. > > > > > > http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/room174.html > > > > > > Police say McPherson, 36, entered the Fort on Hotel, > > > Scientology's Clearwater headquarters, in November 1995. They say > > she > > > was physically healthy but psychologically disturbed. Seventeen > > days > > > later she died. An autopsy determined her death was due to a > blood > > > clot brought on by ``severe dehydration'' and ``bed rest.'' > > Pinellas- > > > Pasco Medical Examiner Joan Wood has said the medical evidence > > > indicates McPherson went without fluids for five to 10 days, > > possibly > > > longer, and was comatose for at least 24 hours before she died. > > Bites > > > on her hands were most likely made by cockroaches, Wood has said. > > > (Tampa Tribune, June 1, 1997) > > > > > > Two Scientology programs call for false imprisonment. > > > http://www.scientology-lies.com/imprisonment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2000 Report Share Posted September 8, 2000 I think some Christian groups go to extreme in their search for cults. Sometimes they are right on the money and other times I wonder. My Dad's a Mason and a Shriner and my grandfathers were in those groups and my grandmothers went to Eastern Star and they were the last people on earth who would resort to Satanic type stuff. They were very involved with Shriner activities - used to go to Cuba all the time before it changed government. Uh oh, maybe they picked up some voodoo down there! Anyways, I can't imagine all these strait- laced types like my family subscribing to the stuff that is 'exposed' in some Christian cult busting groups. The initiation sounds no more scary than fraternities or sorority groups. jan > Doug, > > Just read your post tonight and found it disturbing. I would not trust the > source as I consider 'Fundamentalism' just as cult-like as any other form of > 'mental coercion'. If you have not subscribed to their 'service' then, have > you asked yourself where they got your name? > > My reaction is that it could be that this, and other lists, are monitored (as > well as newsgroups); any books you tend to buy are either monitored or the > list your name is on is sold. > > I have wondered if it has not been the 'fundamentalists' who have spread the > rumors about the 'great conspiracy' as well as capitalized on the general > disenchantment with such groups as AA. > > Any thoughts? > > Ellen > > The following arrived this morning in my inbox -- don't recall subscribing > > to any such outfit, but there are obvious links with our preoccupations. > > The idea that AA is " Spiritism " at no. 6 below I find interesting -- not > > sure what they mean, but it's fine with me to have a Christian source > > claiming that XA has nothing to do with Xtianity and is indeed EVIL in > terms > > > > of Xtian theology. Also, I find it very interesting to see that this > > material yokes together XA, Masonry, New World Order , etc , as different > > facets of same evil set-up -- Scientology is El Ron H.'s own little black > > magic outfit -- grew straight out of the Crowley lodges plus Hubbard's > > Sci-Fi spin. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2000 Report Share Posted September 9, 2000 Dear Ellen, The Xtian Fundamentalists are certainly extremely keen on pinning the readings of Revelations and other prophetic stuff in the Bible to the power structures they discern in their massive output of conspiracy material. The basic outlines of a lot of what they say are in line with what appear to be the facts of the matter -- the world is a thoroughly godless place dominated by an exploitative capitalist system which has latterly assumed a doubtful moral mantle as the underpinning of the New World Order. We may not agree that x,y, or z are the Scarlet Woman, the Beast, the Angel with the Seven Seals (and the three polar bears?) etc., and I don't go along with any of the more (?insanely)particularized readings on which details of conspiracy structures are based. I'm sitting on the fence here a bit as I am a Christian (nothing else, ultimately, makes sense to me) and there is therefore theological common ground between me and the Fundamentalists, though I devoutly dissociate myself from their right-wing tendencies and their self-righteous beliefs in their absolute knowledge, which greatly resemble classic XA traits. I don't know where these people got my address, though I've been in touch with a couple of British far-edge post-hippy Xtian fundamentalist sites and get stuff from them sometimes. I'm certainly not about to buy any books from them or get in cahoots. But I find it ultimately positive that Christians reject XA as some form of evil, because there has been far too much unquestioning accommodation between XA and the churches in UK -- wet liberalism on the Churches' behalf falling hook, line, and sinker for the gruntings from the whited sepulchre of XA, Yours, . >From: intelle@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Re: Cult Busters >Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:09:09 EDT > >Doug, > >Just read your post tonight and found it disturbing. I would not trust the >source as I consider 'Fundamentalism' just as cult-like as any other form >of >'mental coercion'. If you have not subscribed to their 'service' then, >have >you asked yourself where they got your name? > >My reaction is that it could be that this, and other lists, are monitored >(as >well as newsgroups); any books you tend to buy are either monitored or the >list your name is on is sold. > >I have wondered if it has not been the 'fundamentalists' who have spread >the >rumors about the 'great conspiracy' as well as capitalized on the general >disenchantment with such groups as AA. > >Any thoughts? > >Ellen > > The following arrived this morning in my inbox -- don't recall >subscribing > > to any such outfit, but there are obvious links with our >preoccupations. > > The idea that AA is " Spiritism " at no. 6 below I find interesting -- >not > > sure what they mean, but it's fine with me to have a Christian source > > claiming that XA has nothing to do with Xtianity and is indeed EVIL in >terms > > > > of Xtian theology. Also, I find it very interesting to see that this > > material yokes together XA, Masonry, New World Order , etc , as >different > > facets of same evil set-up -- Scientology is El Ron H.'s own little >black > > magic outfit -- grew straight out of the Crowley lodges plus Hubbard's > > Sci-Fi spin. > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2000 Report Share Posted September 9, 2000 Dear Kayleigh, Your post made a lot of sense to me, clarifying my own failure to stand firmly on either side of the " disease/moral choice " fence. A disease in the sense XA dogma presents it, it is not, yet there remain areas and aspects of addictive or destructive behaviour that are in real terms outside the individual's sphere of moral negotiation. " Moral " for me has a meaning conceretely grounded in the actualities of behaviour -- the word is from " mores " , which in Latin means the ways, the behaviours of persons and peoples, exactly as " ethics " is from the Greek for characteristic behaviours of a people in the anthropological sense. Behaviour can be good or bad, depending on its effect, but its " moral " value is a matter of actual act and experience, not through relation to some invisible structures of consciences. So for me, " moral " equals " behaviour " and much behaviour is necessarily reactive -- I know my own is and my own behaviour/,morality with using and drinking is deeply conditioned by external factors -- I can watch my psychology change from " addictive " to happy, almost inadevertent abstinence on a week by week basis at the moment, due to a mildly tempestuous time I'm having. I'm a great believer in the " growing out of it " theory and it's quite clear that now I never give myself the sort of hammering on booze that I did years ago. The roots of my long relationship with drink and drugs remain something of a mystery to me, but I do go on gathering fresh insights that help me to feel the distance increasing between me and the very " locked-in " patterns of behaviour I used to exhibit. I knew after a few meetings at XA years ago that there was a huge hole in the middle of the whole show as far as the mindless acceptance of, commitment to, the " disease model " went. Like many of us in this group, I just needed a better reason, wouldn't settle for half-truths or worse to feel I'd got off the hook. Anyway, thanks for a post that got me thinking and for articulating a position I seem to occupy myself, yours, . > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Cult Busters >Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 01:04:48 -0000 > >I don't know why you call my recall selective, however, I base my >knowledge of scientology entirely upon the links I have read that >were >posted on this list, and the links I have followed from those pages. > >I don't mean to appear unwelcoming, it just seems to me that if you >believe that McPherson was a big girl and could walk away from >scientology any time she wanted, then what's the big deal about >walking away from AA? Why would anyone need to participate in a list >to help them do that? > >I find the scientology links fascinating because of the difficulty I >have dealing with black and white thinking. Most of this list's >members do not believe that " alcoholism " is a disease, but a lot of >people who hold this view maintain that therefore it is a choice. I >think we can all admit that black and white thinking was one of the >major characteristics that we found repugnant about AA, and yet >veering to the other extreme is also black and white. There is a >whole spectrum, along which I think we could all agree that people do >not have free choice: the mentally retarded and mentally ill do not, >for example. It's socially acceptable to believe this. Where it >becomes fuzzier is when brainwashing or abuse is involved. It seems >to me that brainwashing robs people of free choice just as much as >mental retardation or illness, but of course this would not >constitute >a legal defense (as it did not when 11 defendant, including L. Ron >Hubbard's wife, were sent to prison for infiltrating the IRS, DEA and >other federal agencies). Severe child abuse -- should that be a >legal >defense? How can we believe that a child is abused until the magical >18th birthday, when suddenly he is deemed to be fully adult and able >to make rational choices, and if he does not make rational choices, >is deemed to be evil? > >I find this question disturbing, as I do the choice:powerlessness >dichotomy in views of alcoholism. The scientology sites are very >illuminating to me, and I've spent a lot of time this week on them, >to >the detriment of other things I might have been doing. My husband is >very puzzled by this development. > >At any rate, I certainly did not intend any offense. By the way, I >have tried to reply two other times to your post, and this is my >third >attempt. Cyberspace ate the others, and if it eats this one, I think >I will give up. > > > > > > K, > > > > <<I don't recall off the top of my head what your experience with 12 > > steps consisted of, but I assure you, scientology is far more > > intrusive, deceitful, isolating and intense.<<< > > > > Your recall appears to be selective. Btw, on what do you base your > > assurance? Are you a scientologist or an ex member? Or Is this your > > conclusion based on reading links critical of CO$ that I have >posted? > > > > > > >>Gosh, if you think scientology would be easy to walk away from, >why > > are you participating in this list?>> > > > > Gee, thanks for the warm welcome. Where did I say CO$ was easy to >walk away > > from?? I do believe people are responsible for their actions. >Unlike >CO$, > > countless people are forced into the XA cult by the state. I find >this even > > more trajic than someone getting lost in the ridiculous CO$ scam in >order to > > become a " superman. " > > JIm > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2000 Report Share Posted September 9, 2000 Dear Jan, There's good evidence that the Freemasons at higher levels are continuous with belief systems and occult organizations that may be termed Satanic. I think the vast number of members of such bodies are as you describe you family, and have no contact with the sinister higher echelons. In UK the Freemasons are a secret establishment with a lot of power in the police force and at various high levels of political and commercial life. Business and local government are frequently oiled by Masonic associations and efforts to expose their corruption have been intensifying in recent years. We're behind USA on open government, or at least on appearances of it. If Freemasonry is " Satanic " it is so because of its devout focus on " the world, the flesh, and the devil " in terms of power and they do with it. I'm sure many of the people who are senior Masaons do not " believe " in the Devil, or God, but do the former's work anyway in perpetuating corrupt systems of earthly power, . >From: j.m.young@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: Cult Busters >Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 02:33:40 -0000 > >I think some Christian groups go to extreme in their search for >cults. Sometimes they are right on the money and other times I >wonder. My Dad's a Mason and a Shriner and my grandfathers were in >those groups and my grandmothers went to Eastern Star and they were >the last people on earth who would resort to Satanic type stuff. >They were very involved with Shriner activities - used to go to Cuba >all the time before it changed government. Uh oh, maybe they picked >up some voodoo down there! Anyways, I can't imagine all these strait- >laced types like my family subscribing to the stuff that is 'exposed' >in some Christian cult busting groups. The initiation sounds no more >scary than fraternities or sorority groups. > >jan > > > > > > > Doug, > > > > Just read your post tonight and found it disturbing. I would not >trust the > > source as I consider 'Fundamentalism' just as cult-like as any >other form of > > 'mental coercion'. If you have not subscribed to their 'service' >then, have > > you asked yourself where they got your name? > > > > My reaction is that it could be that this, and other lists, are >monitored (as > > well as newsgroups); any books you tend to buy are either monitored >or the > > list your name is on is sold. > > > > I have wondered if it has not been the 'fundamentalists' who have >spread the > > rumors about the 'great conspiracy' as well as capitalized on the >general > > disenchantment with such groups as AA. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Ellen > > > The following arrived this morning in my inbox -- don't recall >subscribing > > > to any such outfit, but there are obvious links with our >preoccupations. > > > The idea that AA is " Spiritism " at no. 6 below I find >interesting -- not > > > sure what they mean, but it's fine with me to have a Christian >source > > > claiming that XA has nothing to do with Xtianity and is indeed >EVIL in > > terms > > > > > > of Xtian theology. Also, I find it very interesting to see that >this > > > material yokes together XA, Masonry, New World Order , etc , as >different > > > facets of same evil set-up -- Scientology is El Ron H.'s own >little black > > > magic outfit -- grew straight out of the Crowley lodges plus >Hubbard's > > > Sci-Fi spin. > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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