RE off topic but important

July 25, 2005

Were they prosecuted for providing a felon with a firearm?

Mike

On 7/25/05, Wallace Blum, EMT-Paramedic

wrote:

> There is always that obscure law that lurks out there until some

> jail house lawyer finds it and uses it to his advantage. Several

> years back a Texas inmate found an old law that said upon discharge

> from prison, each prisoner should be given a horse, saddle, long

> rifle with X amount of ammunition for it, and $20.00. He pushed and

> pushed, and they agreed to do it. He was arrested before he was off

> prison grounds for being a convicted felon in posession of a firearm

> & posession of a firearm on prison grounds. He was booked, tried,

> convicted, and got 10 more years in the same prison. He was smart

> wasn't he? LOL

>

> > >>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until

> justice is

> > >>> done

> > >>

July 25, 2005

Sorry but your outright wrong on this one. Note I am not trying to discuss the

case of Roe v Wade in this discussion I am only using it as an example.

There was a newspaper article last week that discussed Roe v Wade. According to

the article the laws in which Roe v Wade apply to were never repealed in some

states. Texas is not one of them. Using the same analogy wouldnt a law

enforecement officer in those states be guilty of malfeasence in office if they

did not enforce the state statue. Wouldnt he also be guilty of a Federal crime

at the same time.

Sounds like a non issue. Maybe its time to move on.

AJL

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

The laws enforced by Texas Peace Officers are the ones in the penal code. Any

offense deemed a breach of peace while commited in the officers presence shall

be arrested. As Section 43 of the penal code deals with breach of peace an

officer could be found at fault for not enforcing this law.

Exiling@... wrote: There's a lot of truth in that saying. However, if a

peace officer knowingly makes an arrest for a statute they know is

unconstitutional, they've got bigger issues with civil rights complaints -- both

civil and criminal. As to civil liability, I'd refer you to 42 U.S.C. 1983.

-Wes

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

If its a non-issue to you then stay out of it. Some of us care about the flag

and what it stands for. A good debate is one of the freedoms given to you by

the blood of those who stand on the wall.

Alan Lambert wrote:Sorry but your outright wrong on this

one. Note I am not trying to discuss the case of Roe v Wade in this discussion

I am only using it as an example.

There was a newspaper article last week that discussed Roe v Wade. According to

the article the laws in which Roe v Wade apply to were never repealed in some

states. Texas is not one of them. Using the same analogy wouldnt a law

enforecement officer in those states be guilty of malfeasence in office if they

did not enforce the state statue. Wouldnt he also be guilty of a Federal crime

at the same time.

Sounds like a non issue. Maybe its time to move on.

AJL

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a lawyer?

-Wes

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

Of course not, because they were only complying with the statute,

and they were using prosecutorial privelage to " Sting " him, which

made them immune anyway........Besides, this is Texas, we don't

always do things that way.

> > > >>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest

until

> > justice is

> > > >>> done

> > > >>

July 25, 2005

Peace Officer. That might explain some of my views.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a lawyer?

-Wes

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

Yep. Almost as surely as my legal training shows through. I can just imagine

the interesting epithets you are calling me right now...

-Wes

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

Not really. I like a good debate. That is one of the best freedoms we are

granted. The ability to disagree sets us off from most of the rest of the

world. Not to mention that one of my good friends is a lawyer and we have had

many good nights drinking on the front porch debating any thing and everything.

Lawyers are a nessecary part of our society and i have mine on retainer for my

law enforcement and emt activities.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:Yep. Almost as surely as my legal training shows through.

I can just imagine the interesting epithets you are calling me right now...

-Wes

Re: RE off topic but important

Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

charges.

Re: RE off topic but important

>

>> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

>>

>> Mike

>>

>>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

>>> done

>>

July 25, 2005

> The laws enforced by Texas Peace Officers are the ones in the penal code. Any

offense deemed a breach of peace while commited in the officers presence shall

be arrested. As Section 43 of the penal code deals with breach of peace an

officer could be found at fault for not enforcing this law.

Actually, I enforce all the laws of Texas. I can arrest on ANY of

them that are arrestable, assuming of course I have probable cause.

In many cases, such as offenses for which the elements require more

than a single act, I obtain a warrant first.

With limited exceptions, peace officers are ABLE to enforce ALL laws

of this state (and in fact, are sworn to do so). In reality, their

assignment dictates which laws they focus on.

As for SHALL arrest, that's not what the Code of Criminal Procedure

says. Here's what it says:

( A peace officer MAY arrest an offender without a warrant for any

offense committed in his presence or within his view.

( A peace officer SHALL arrest, without a warrant, a person the

peace officer has probable cause to believe has committed an offense

under Section 25.07, Penal Code (violation of Protective Order), or

Section 38.112, Penal Code (violation of Protective Order issued on

basis of sexual assault), if the offense is committed in the presence

of the peace officer.

Mike

July 25, 2005

i appologize if my words have gotten out of hand. However this is a subject that

will tend to draw people to the line. It is also good for thought to

occasionally post off topic stories.

lnmolino@... wrote:

In a message dated 7/25/2005 4:32:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

wjince@... writes:

Peace Officer. That might explain some of my views.

Of course it does and that is OK as it is OK for everyone to agree to

disagree but at times this thread has edged towards flaming and the like. I am

almost sorry I posted the original piece!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 25, 2005

That was rather rude. He posts an on-topic response, and you default

to limiting the discussion to the originating topic - about which none

of your recent posts were written.

I suggest you apologize to Al, then we'll continue this discussion.

Mike

> If its a non-issue to you then stay out of it. Some of us care about the flag

and what it stands for. A good debate is one of the freedoms given to you by

the blood of those who stand on the wall.

>

> Alan Lambert wrote:Sorry but your outright wrong on this

one. Note I am not trying to discuss the case of Roe v Wade in this discussion

I am only using it as an example.

>

> There was a newspaper article last week that discussed Roe v Wade. According

to the article the laws in which Roe v Wade apply to were never repealed in some

states. Texas is not one of them. Using the same analogy wouldnt a law

enforecement officer in those states be guilty of malfeasence in office if they

did not enforce the state statue. Wouldnt he also be guilty of a Federal crime

at the same time.

>

> Sounds like a non issue. Maybe its time to move on.

>

> AJL

>

> Re: RE off topic but important

>

> Public service is all well and good for minor crimes, but arson is a more

> serious charge, and the crime that was comitted. A similar crime (minus the

> flag and dead soldier issue) happened in the neighborhood my mother lives

> in. The person was caught and convicted of arson and served time. Perhaps

> jail time for arson, and probation and public service for the lesser

> charges.

>

> Re: RE off topic but important

> >

> >> What is justice for this incident, in your opinion?

> >>

> >> Mike

> >>

> >>> I hope the law in that part of the country do not rest until justice is

> >>> done

> >>

July 25, 2005

> Peace Officer. That might explain some of my views.

>

> ExLngHrn@... wrote:Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a lawyer?

>

> -Wes

What explains your ignorace?

Mike

July 25, 2005

Mike,

We are hedging on starting to throw names about like calling you

Roscose P. Coletrain, Mr. Ince...Enis, and Wes.....Boss Hogg.....We

just have to find out who them damn Duke Boys are gonna be now.....

LOL

CB

Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a

lawyer?

> >

> > -Wes

>

> What explains your ignorace?

>

> Mike

July 25, 2005

Boss Hogg -- I'm not that fat, am I? And I don't have an all-white suit...

-Wes

Re: RE off topic but important

Mike,

We are hedging on starting to throw names about like calling you

Roscose P. Coletrain, Mr. Ince...Enis, and Wes.....Boss Hogg.....We

just have to find out who them damn Duke Boys are gonna be now.....

LOL

CB

Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a

lawyer?

> >

> > -Wes

>

> What explains your ignorace?

>

> Mike

July 25, 2005

In a message dated 7/25/2005 9:07:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

texaslp@... writes:

I dunno... I saw several possible Daisy's at the last EMS Conference... heck

I can nominate one or two from the medic crews in this area.......

One thing I do like about the conference is all those flight crews.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 25, 2005

Hmm, better get shopping. Look in some of those great vintage

stores around Austin. We already know Mike works IN Hazzard County!!

Punn definitely intended.

Just curious -- are you a peace officer or

a

> lawyer?

> > >

> > > -Wes

> >

> > What explains your ignorace?

> >

> > Mike

>

July 25, 2005

Hogg......short for Hoggenstein......LOL

Just curious -- are you a peace officer or

a

> lawyer?

> > >

> > > -Wes

> >

> > What explains your ignorace?

> >

> > Mike

>

July 25, 2005

Well, since you don't want to see ME in daisy dukes...

Wes seems more like Roscoe, and me more like Boss Hogg... would that

make Gandy be Uncle , and Bledsoe be Cooter?

Mike

On 7/25/05, Wallace Blum, EMT-Paramedic

wrote:

> Mike,

>

> We are hedging on starting to throw names about like calling you

> Roscose P. Coletrain, Mr. Ince...Enis, and Wes.....Boss Hogg.....We

> just have to find out who them damn Duke Boys are gonna be now.....

>

> LOL

>

> CB

>

> Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a

> lawyer?

> > >

> > > -Wes

> >

> > What explains your ignorace?

> >

> > Mike

>

July 25, 2005

Let's all take a deep breath and step back for a minute.

Any prosecutor will have to take a very hard look at the facts of the case

and see if they will fit into the wording of the Penal Code, plus look at ALL

the cases from the appeals courts on the subject, and see whether or not a

charge will stick. It's relatively easy to convict on charges with lots of

emotional content, but it's another thing to make them to stand up in the

appeals

courts. Not only that, it costs a county an arm and a leg to pursue these

cases in the appeals courts.

Although we are all offended, nauseated, enraged, and pissed off by what

these cretins did, we need to get a perspective on where this fits into the

criminal law.

As a prosecutor you soon learn not to charge crimes you cannot prove and

sustain through the appeals process. It's amazing how quickly a redneck county

commissioner will turn on you when he finds out that your case against the flag

burner could bankrupt the county.

So we seek remedies that make sense. Wes has outlined some that make very

good sense: the probation, the public service and the apology. I would add

another thing, restitution for the property destroyed. That must be paid to

the owner of the car.

Now, I'm the first to say that these folks need a good ole country whuppin,

and my emotions run real hot over this. However, we are a nation of laws and

our Constitution and laws have served us well for almost three centuries.

There are checks and balances to keep us from going off the deep end and doing

things that are indefensible, like lynching people, for instance.

My other observation is that idiots like this do these things for notoriety,

and the best thing we can do is ignore them. They crave publicity, and the

more we stir the flames the more publicity they get and the more idiots like

them come out of the woodwork. These people need to be totally ignored by the

media, and they will be if we just sit back and wait until the next " man bites

dog " case comes up. In the meantime, the prosecutors can be quietly

pursuing their case for theft and criminal mischief against these morons.

Arson

won't work, probably. It can always be charged as a wedge to get a plea, but

at

some point they'll have to elect to go on what they think they can prove, and

I suggest that arson is difficult.

Now, the family needs to sue the pants off of these bastards in civil court,

and I'm sure that they can find somebody to do that. I'm not aware whether

the idiots are a part of an organization, but if there is one, it ought to be

sued. An example of what can be done to an organization that supports

criminal behavior can be seen with the suits against the KKK, where the

Plaintiffs

got all their assets.

There's more than one way to skin a possum.

GG.

> Wes,

>

> I think in California, your arguement might be credible.Â However, I don't

> think any prosecutor in Texas will have a bit of trouble getting a conviction

> on this charge.Â Ohio?Â Who knows....

>

> Tater

>

> ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> -- the defense lawyer would not have to prove a thing. The burden of

> proof is on the prosecution. We have the presumption of innocence.Â The

> prosecutor has to prove that the defendant intended to set the car on fire.Â

> There's a slam-dunk case for theft of the flags and for criminal mischief by

> burning the flags. However, to win an arson case, the prosecution has to

establish,

> beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant lit the flags on fire with the

> intent to burn the car.

>

> -Wes

>

> Re: RE off topic but important

>

> Do you think a defense lawyer would try to prove that the flags accidently

> caught on fire and just happened to find their way underneath the car owned

> by a person who just lost a serving family member? Or perhaps that setting a

> fire underneath a car wouldnt be expected to cause damage cause any damage?

> The intent sure seems to be there unles spontanious combustion ocoured.

>

> Re: RE off topic but important

>

> -- I beg to differ, but the usual practice is not to sentence someone

> to jail/prison AND probation. If you read the law, you'll find that

> probation used to be defined as a probated sentence. In other words, it's

> just like a probated EMS suspension. The state does not follow through with

> the sentence so long as certain conditions are met.Â Hence, you can't hit

> someone with jail/prison (misdemeanor convicts go to jail, felony convicts

> go to prison) and probation for the same crime.Â You can, in certain

> circumstances, require a minimal amount of confinement (2-3 days in jail, or

> serving some weekends in jail) with a probated sentence.

>

> As to arson, I've taken the liberty of cutting and pasting the Texas statute

> prohibiting arson. Could you prove each and every one of these elements?Â I

> may not do much criminal law anymore, but I'm not seeing that burning a flag

> fits the statutory elements.Â If you think I'm wrong, please point me to the

> place in the statute or relevant Texas case law.

>

> -clipped-

>

July 25, 2005

Nope, besides, you couldn't be Boss Hogg, you would have to be Boss

Goldstein or something like that...

Mike

Re: RE off topic but important

Mike,

We are hedging on starting to throw names about like calling you

Roscose P. Coletrain, Mr. Ince...Enis, and Wes.....Boss Hogg.....We

just have to find out who them damn Duke Boys are gonna be now.....

LOL

CB

Just curious -- are you a peace officer or a

lawyer?

> >

> > -Wes

>

> What explains your ignorace?

>

> Mike

July 25, 2005

Bledsoe's belly fits more with Uncle , but Gene fit's the mold

better. That's a hard one. Bledsoe does look a little like Cooter

though, and I definitely don't want to see YOU in Daisy Dukes.

Just curious -- are you a peace officer

or a

> > lawyer?

> > > >

> > > > -Wes

> > >

> > > What explains your ignorace?

> > >

> > > Mike

> >

July 25, 2005

Louis,

I have no comment for what DISGUSTING thoughts ran through my mind

when you said that. I am speechless.

>

> In a message dated 7/25/2005 5:57:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> paramedicop@g... writes:

>

> Well, since you don't want to see ME in daisy dukes...

>

> Wes seems more like Roscoe, and me more like Boss Hogg... would

that

> make Gandy be Uncle , and Bledsoe be Cooter?

>

> Mike

>

> I've got the figure for Boss Hogg and the legs for Daisy dukes

(that will

> likely end this thread).

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@a...

> (IFW Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (IFW Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the

author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or

associated with unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is

intended only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the

> original author.

>

July 25, 2005

,

Your view is perhaps cynical, but it also reflects reality. I used to tell

my clients that we deal with things are they ARE, not as they wish they were.

In my other writings I have talked about a book all should read, called

Blink, by Malcolm Gladwell. It goes a long way toward explaining why people

come

to the conclusions that they do about myriad things.

Gene

> No hard feelings here. I enjoy a little spirited debate now and then.

> Besides, difficult people keep things interesting. You are right by the

> way. An attorney I know told me once that it's not always the facts on

> trial, but the laywers and the one the jury likes most wins. hows that for

> a cynical view of the adverserial system.

>

> Re: RE off topic but important

> >

> > Do you think a defense lawyer would try to prove that the flags accidently

> > caught on fire and just happened to find their way underneath the car

> > owned

> > by a person who just lost a serving family member? Or perhaps that setting

> > a

> > fire underneath a car wouldnt be expected to cause damage cause any

> > damage?

> > The intent sure seems to be there unles spontanious combustion ocoured.

> >

July 25, 2005

This whole Daisy Duke thing has got me wondering on who to name as

Daisy...........No offense, but Jane and Maxine are too old to be

Daisy (no offense meant), Meris wouldn't probably be caught dead in a

pair of Daisy Dukes, and no men on here qualify. No, not even you

Louis! The more I think about Mike's satement, those of us that KNOW

Wes, the Roscoe P. Coletrain thing fits him much better,

Mike.......you can't be Enis because you are way too big and he was a

little weasel, pluse you need to be a cop anyway.........what was that

other one that replaced Enis that was Boss Hogg's nephew or

something? He had a big belly! That leaves a Boss Hogg

and .......Gene can be Uncle and Bledsoe Cooter.

CB

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