Re: EMS has a terminal illness.. or does it?

July 17, 2005

Tater (the original Tater...),

Best to your family members, I hope all works out well.

While we all agree that we have a tendency to 'eat our young' and vehemently

disagree on some things, I am curious as to what exactly the answer is?

Where do we start? What miniscule thing can we all agree on, and more

importantly, what is it that we can put our collective weight together on?

Who is the first to offer a compromise so that we have the appearance of

wanting to bring this whole thing together? What can we even compromise on?

When I say our collective weight, I do mean it HAS to be collective. Time

and time again, we see the same names at the meetings, we see the same faces

and hear from the same people over and over again when it comes to getting

things done, and it is a very small percentage that accomplishes these

things.

If anyone thinks that any large organization does not have some level of

strife involved, nothing could be further from the truth, but they have the

ability to reach compromise, and put forth a face of agreement, and bring

the numbers behind them. How do we do that?

I am not here to swear by any one organization, but will it be an

organization at all? How do we get the field medics involved, what will it

take to get them involved? How do we reach them, because it is " them' that

we need. How do you get their attention? Those are the numbers we need. Do

the field medics even have a concept of what dire straits EMS as a whole is

in? How do we get that message to them?

Heck, I don't even mind the arguing, as long as it is done while we are both

headed in the same direction!!!

I don't know anymore, I just don't know where to start. Any ideas?

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

" Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes "

July 18, 2005

Hey ... I hope and pray your family improves. I

was in your neck of the woods Saturday.

both Taters. I guess I will now weigh in with my

ideas. I hope you don't mind but I put my thoughts in

among what you wrote.

Best to y'all.

Tom

PS Mike Hatfield. If you have my phone number

(817)236-1839. You need to call me one evening to

chat.

>>While we all agree that we have a tendency to 'eat

our young' and vehemently disagree on some things, I

am curious as to what exactly the answer is?

Answer is Unity As you and several others have all

ready pointed out.

>>Where do we start?

As you pointed out later. Its with the field medics.

>>What minuscule thing can we all agree on, and more

importantly, what is it that we can put our collective

weight together on?

A stand alone EMS board. Self governing board will

lend credence to the EMS profession as a whole. It is

not the end all be all. But its a start.

>>Who is the first to offer a compromise so that we

have the appearance of wanting to bring this whole

thing together?

Me. I will start. I see this as being the starting

point. What idea must I give up to have you stand

with me? How can I help you along in your career?

>>What can we even compromise on?

Tell me what areas are important to you. (Ahh, this

takes communication)

>>When I say our collective weight, I do mean it HAS

to be collective. Time and time again, we see the same

names at the meetings, we see the same faces

and hear from the same people over and over again when

it comes to getting things done, and it is a very

small percentage that accomplishes these

things.

Now it is time for those recurring faces to be back in

their area talking to the field medics. How many

times a day do you bump into other Paramedics/EM T's?

Have you asked them? Do you visit with them regarding

improvement of EMS? Do you take notes? (Mental or

physical) Have you brought those ideas back with you?

>>If anyone thinks that any large organization does

not have some level of strife involved, nothing could

be further from the truth, but they have the ability

to reach compromise, and put forth a face of

agreement, and bring the numbers behind them. How do

we do that?

We fight among ourselves at our closed to the public

meetings. We come to a consensus then stand publicly

together. I can express that at the fire station and

at EMS stations, I have had my disagreements in house.

Even to point of shouting matches. However, no one

in the public was ever aware of our disagreements.

They saw us as a team, working together. Do you have

a brother. I do. I have fought with him many times.

But he's still my brother. I still stand with him and

by him even though I disagree. And he with me.

That's called loyalty and unity. When we fight, its

just us. When someone intervenes. We become united.

>>I am not here to swear by any one organization, but

will it be an organization at all?

Yes, It has to be an organization. Or how else is

there unity.

>>How do we get the field medics involved, what will

it take to get them involved? How do we reach them,

because it is " them' that we need. How do you get

their attention? Those are the numbers we need.

To get the field medics involved, it has to become a

local organization. They do not have the money to

drive to Austin from El Paso, Or Houston. There for

they need a way to voice locally their concerns. Then

a local rep comes to the Austin meetings to represent

his area. To get these guys involved it takes

communication. It takes time to visit. and I mean

visit one on one with these guys. Ask them what they

think. They have ideas. They have things that are

important to them. And they will verbalize them if

you give them a chance.

>>Do the field medics even have a concept of what dire

straits EMS as a whole is in? How do we get that

message to them?

They know. They probably have a better idea than what

most of us do. They see it daily in their paychecks,

and uncertainty of their jobs. They know.

Mike, and Others.

I dream of us being unified. I do see someday of EMS

having a hand on what prehospital medicine is all

about. I see Paramedics making a difference in

research, in discovery, in a child's life. I dream

that a paramedic will actually tell a child.. " This is

a great career to go into. "

When a field medic can stand by his truck with pride

and say This field has touched me as much or more than

I ever dreamed. Then EMS will be headed down the

right road.

I dream that burned out paramedics will be after 30

years. Not 3 to 5 years.

I have many dreams for EMS. I have many hopes.

These are my ideas. My dreams. My hopes. Do not

hold anyone but me to my opinions, for I have formed

them in my own little noggin.

LeNeveu

Paramedic and Dreamer

July 18, 2005

Hey Tom, not to sound corny, but YOU ROCK!

The medic who agrees with Tom

In a message dated 7/18/2005 1:30:41 PM Central Standard Time,

FireMedic1633@... writes:

Hey ... I hope and pray your family improves. I

was in your neck of the woods Saturday.

both Taters. I guess I will now weigh in with my

ideas. I hope you don't mind but I put my thoughts in

among what you wrote.

Best to y'all.

Tom

PS Mike Hatfield. If you have my phone number

(817)236-1839. You need to call me one evening to

chat.

>>While we all agree that we have a tendency to 'eat

our young' and vehemently disagree on some things, I

am curious as to what exactly the answer is?

Answer is Unity As you and several others have all

ready pointed out.

>>Where do we start?

As you pointed out later. Its with the field medics.

>>What minuscule thing can we all agree on, and more

importantly, what is it that we can put our collective

weight together on?

A stand alone EMS board. Self governing board will

lend credence to the EMS profession as a whole. It is

not the end all be all. But its a start.

>>Who is the first to offer a compromise so that we

have the appearance of wanting to bring this whole

thing together?

Me. I will start. I see this as being the starting

point. What idea must I give up to have you stand

with me? How can I help you along in your career?

>>What can we even compromise on?

Tell me what areas are important to you. (Ahh, this

takes communication)

>>When I say our collective weight, I do mean it HAS

to be collective. Time and time again, we see the same

names at the meetings, we see the same faces

and hear from the same people over and over again when

it comes to getting things done, and it is a very

small percentage that accomplishes these

things.

Now it is time for those recurring faces to be back in

their area talking to the field medics. How many

times a day do you bump into other Paramedics/EM T's?

Have you asked them? Do you visit with them regarding

improvement of EMS? Do you take notes? (Mental or

physical) Have you brought those ideas back with you?

>>If anyone thinks that any large organization does

not have some level of strife involved, nothing could

be further from the truth, but they have the ability

to reach compromise, and put forth a face of

agreement, and bring the numbers behind them. How do

we do that?

We fight among ourselves at our closed to the public

meetings. We come to a consensus then stand publicly

together. I can express that at the fire station and

at EMS stations, I have had my disagreements in house.

Even to point of shouting matches. However, no one

in the public was ever aware of our disagreements.

They saw us as a team, working together. Do you have

a brother. I do. I have fought with him many times.

But he's still my brother. I still stand with him and

by him even though I disagree. And he with me.

That's called loyalty and unity. When we fight, its

just us. When someone intervenes. We become united.

>>I am not here to swear by any one organization, but

will it be an organization at all?

Yes, It has to be an organization. Or how else is

there unity.

>>How do we get the field medics involved, what will

it take to get them involved? How do we reach them,

because it is " them' that we need. How do you get

their attention? Those are the numbers we need.

To get the field medics involved, it has to become a

local organization. They do not have the money to

drive to Austin from El Paso, Or Houston. There for

they need a way to voice locally their concerns. Then

a local rep comes to the Austin meetings to represent

his area. To get these guys involved it takes

communication. It takes time to visit. and I mean

visit one on one with these guys. Ask them what they

think. They have ideas. They have things that are

important to them. And they will verbalize them if

you give them a chance.

>>Do the field medics even have a concept of what dire

straits EMS as a whole is in? How do we get that

message to them?

They know. They probably have a better idea than what

most of us do. They see it daily in their paychecks,

and uncertainty of their jobs. They know.

Mike, and Others.

I dream of us being unified. I do see someday of EMS

having a hand on what prehospital medicine is all

about. I see Paramedics making a difference in

research, in discovery, in a child's life. I dream

that a paramedic will actually tell a child.. " This is

a great career to go into. "

When a field medic can stand by his truck with pride

and say This field has touched me as much or more than

I ever dreamed. Then EMS will be headed down the

right road.

I dream that burned out paramedics will be after 30

years. Not 3 to 5 years.

I have many dreams for EMS. I have many hopes.

These are my ideas. My dreams. My hopes. Do not

hold anyone but me to my opinions, for I have formed

them in my own little noggin.

LeNeveu

Paramedic and Dreamer

July 18, 2005

Tom et al,

I agree with all that has been said particularly the UNITY part but I ask

you this question...

How is it that a state like Wisconsin has over 6,000 members in its EMS

association and Texas has what it has? What's different in WI over TX?\

If an ORGINIZATION is the answer and I believe that it is EMSAT is already

established and while it has its problems and issues imagine what it could do

with 6,000 members??????????

So again what is different in WI versus TX and no it's not that WI people

are any better or TX folks any worse.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 18, 2005

In a message dated 7/18/2005 5:57:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

hatfield@... writes:

It's easy to say we need unity, and we do. Begs the question of how we get

it, how do we become (as Louis said) like Wisconsin? Do we need to go to

each and every field medic? If so, how many of us will take that

responsibility? Who is going to start it all? Where do we start? What

county/city/service do we start with?

I do like the idea of EMSAT having " chapters " as Jane mentioned. Perhaps a

starting place is to align them with TDHS Regions? That's what? 11? Something

like that right?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 18, 2005

Good and positive thoughts, Tom. If I am not mistaken, EMSAT discussed setting

up local chapters before so that their would be continuity between the groups as

well as more local access. I think the issue was having membership that were

willing to be a part of that and help set it all up and make sure it happens. I

am still all for something like this; we just need folks who are willing to

become members of ONE organization and then are willing to be active and help

set up and run the local chapters (or whatever you want to call it). And again,

whether that venue be EMSAT or Joe's Bar and Grill EMS Group makes very little

difference to me personally, but I think we have to start somewhere.

I received a private e-mail where it was stated that folks are still hung up on

" so what's in it for me????? " I think we as a group have to shift into the

mindset of " what's in it for EMS as an industry? " and " what's in it to benefit

EMS folks and the communities that they serve? " It is human nature to not want

to get involved in something unless you can personally benefit, but we have to

fight the selfish voices we hear in our heads and start looking at the overall

picture and state of affairs. I think when we do that, we WILL see some personal

benefits as well because many of the issues that we need to work out as a group

involve things like being recognized and treated as professionals, salaries and

work conditions, safety issues, continuing education and initial training

issues, money for those things, etc. Sometimes we forget that to get what we

WANT for ourselves individually, we have to work toward those SAME things for

the entire group.

Just my thoughts...

Jane Hill

-------------- Original message from lisawhir@...: --------------

Hey Tom, not to sound corny, but YOU ROCK!

The medic who agrees with Tom

In a message dated 7/18/2005 1:30:41 PM Central Standard Time,

FireMedic1633@... writes:

Hey ... I hope and pray your family improves. I

was in your neck of the woods Saturday.

both Taters. I guess I will now weigh in with my

ideas. I hope you don't mind but I put my thoughts in

among what you wrote.

Best to y'all.

Tom

PS Mike Hatfield. If you have my phone number

(817)236-1839. You need to call me one evening to

chat.

>>While we all agree that we have a tendency to 'eat

our young' and vehemently disagree on some things, I

am curious as to what exactly the answer is?

Answer is Unity As you and several others have all

ready pointed out.

>>Where do we start?

As you pointed out later. Its with the field medics.

>>What minuscule thing can we all agree on, and more

importantly, what is it that we can put our collective

weight together on?

A stand alone EMS board. Self governing board will

lend credence to the EMS profession as a whole. It is

not the end all be all. But its a start.

>>Who is the first to offer a compromise so that we

have the appearance of wanting to bring this whole

thing together?

Me. I will start. I see this as being the starting

point. What idea must I give up to have you stand

with me? How can I help you along in your career?

>>What can we even compromise on?

Tell me what areas are important to you. (Ahh, this

takes communication)

>>When I say our collective weight, I do mean it HAS

to be collective. Time and time again, we see the same

names at the meetings, we see the same faces

and hear from the same people over and over again when

it comes to getting things done, and it is a very

small percentage that accomplishes these

things.

Now it is time for those recurring faces to be back in

their area talking to the field medics. How many

times a day do you bump into other Paramedics/EM T's?

Have you asked them? Do you visit with them regarding

improvement of EMS? Do you take notes? (Mental or

physical) Have you brought those ideas back with you?

>>If anyone thinks that any large organization does

not have some level of strife involved, nothing could

be further from the truth, but they have the ability

to reach compromise, and put forth a face of

agreement, and bring the numbers behind them. How do

we do that?

We fight among ourselves at our closed to the public

meetings. We come to a consensus then stand publicly

together. I can express that at the fire station and

at EMS stations, I have had my disagreements in house.

Even to point of shouting matches. However, no one

in the public was ever aware of our disagreements.

They saw us as a team, working together. Do you have

a brother. I do. I have fought with him many times.

But he's still my brother. I still stand with him and

by him even though I disagree. And he with me.

That's called loyalty and unity. When we fight, its

just us. When someone intervenes. We become united.

>>I am not here to swear by any one organization, but

will it be an organization at all?

Yes, It has to be an organization. Or how else is

there unity.

>>How do we get the field medics involved, what will

it take to get them involved? How do we reach them,

because it is " them' that we need. How do you get

their attention? Those are the numbers we need.

To get the field medics involved, it has to become a

local organization. They do not have the money to

drive to Austin from El Paso, Or Houston. There for

they need a way to voice locally their concerns. Then

a local rep comes to the Austin meetings to represent

his area. To get these guys involved it takes

communication. It takes time to visit. and I mean

visit one on one with these guys. Ask them what they

think. They have ideas. They have things that are

important to them. And they will verbalize them if

you give them a chance.

>>Do the field medics even have a concept of what dire

straits EMS as a whole is in? How do we get that

message to them?

They know. They probably have a better idea than what

most of us do. They see it daily in their paychecks,

and uncertainty of their jobs. They know.

Mike, and Others.

I dream of us being unified. I do see someday of EMS

having a hand on what prehospital medicine is all

about. I see Paramedics making a difference in

research, in discovery, in a child's life. I dream

that a paramedic will actually tell a child.. " This is

a great career to go into. "

When a field medic can stand by his truck with pride

and say This field has touched me as much or more than

I ever dreamed. Then EMS will be headed down the

right road.

I dream that burned out paramedics will be after 30

years. Not 3 to 5 years.

I have many dreams for EMS. I have many hopes.

These are my ideas. My dreams. My hopes. Do not

hold anyone but me to my opinions, for I have formed

them in my own little noggin.

LeNeveu

Paramedic and Dreamer

July 18, 2005

Very good question, Louis. What IS different? Is it that we are more in an

infant state in regards to the question of organizing ourselves? Is it that

there is more apathy in general in EMS in Texas? Or is it that the word has not

gotten out to the EMS masses and, if that is the case, how do we do that? (I

know lightening is going to strike when I make this next analogy, but here

goes.) Christianity didn't start as an organized movement. For that matter,

many religions didn't. They started as small groups of individuals who, using

word of mouth and personal invitations, convinced those around them to come and

get involved. Then those people got two people, and those people got two people

(I think I just fell into a commercial from the past, didn't I?). The point is

that a grassroots movement has to start with individuals who are willing to keep

pressing forward for change and for organization and who are willing to keep

harping on those around them to become involved.

I used to be the WORST one about wanting to get involved in ANYTHING that

smacked of politics, etc. Then Gene Gandy came along and suckered me in, and

the rest is history. (BTW, I still owe you one for that Gene, and it won't be

pretty.) The point is, each person on this list has an opportunity to be a part

of a solution for our industry that ultimately leads to becoming an organized

group as a whole - all 55,000 of us as the case may be. Whether you are on one

side of the fence or the other on any issue, I think MOST of us can agree that

we need to develop organization and become a voice to be heard by our

legislators, governments and communities. So why don't we all take out a

personal stake in this to try to get ourselves more involved in getting that

voice together and making it a point to get those of us who work in EMS around

us involved. Be a pain in the tush until they have to participate to make you

shut up if that is what it takes (that's what Gene did to ME), but be a

proponent for unity. Like Louis said, heck, if even SIX THOUSAND of us stood on

common ground, we would be a force that legislators and others would have to

reckon with and we would be able to start promoting positive changes for our

industry.

OK, that's all I have to say. I'm tired.

Jane Hill

-------------- Original message from lnmolino@...: --------------

Tom et al,

I agree with all that has been said particularly the UNITY part but I ask

you this question...

How is it that a state like Wisconsin has over 6,000 members in its EMS

association and Texas has what it has? What's different in WI over TX?\

If an ORGINIZATION is the answer and I believe that it is EMSAT is already

established and while it has its problems and issues imagine what it could do

with 6,000 members??????????

So again what is different in WI versus TX and no it's not that WI people

are any better or TX folks any worse.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(IFW Office)

(Cell Phone)

(IFW Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

July 18, 2005

Tom,

I picked this one part out of your email, not because I disagree, but

because I want to know what we can do about it.

It's easy to say we need unity, and we do. Begs the question of how we get

it, how do we become (as Louis said) like Wisconsin? Do we need to go to

each and every field medic? If so, how many of us will take that

responsibility? Who is going to start it all? Where do we start? What

county/city/service do we start with?

Everything else in your email is on the money.

P.S. I am on primary tonight, so if I don't call tonight, I will call

tomorrow...

Mike

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

" Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes "

>>Answer is Unity As you and several others have all

>>ready pointed out.

July 18, 2005