Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Actually, that's pretty much a misstatement. Dallas Fire-Rescue does use a " fill-in " system. BUT, Dallas Fire-Rescue uses satellite-location based dispatching to dispatch the closest unit, and has a formula built in to automatically kick out an engine/truck to accompany an ambulance exceeding the programmed, planned response threshhold. They've been doing that for 10+ years now... and can show the data for each call as to why each unit was assigned as closest, etc... and show that for extended response times for ambulances they're adding BLS responses to put providers on scene as fast as possible. Additionally, Dallas F/R has three paramedic engines that ALWAYS have a paramedic on them and carry ALS gear, supplementing ALS/MICU response in areas of town that are farther out and don't warrant MICU placement based on call volume, but do need ALS response within certain timelines. How many private companies place " sprint trucks " with ALS gear in heavy demand areas, supplementing their MICU coverage? While if a sector of the city does get low on ambulances, they will send a unit to " fill-in " , they're sending them TO A STATION, for a determined reason (all the response units in the area are out for an extended time, such as a hospital transport, etc.) - generally I've only seen this when 4 or more contiguous ambulances are out. They " fill-in " at place they can back in, rest, eat, sleep, whatever they need to do until relieved. Of course, they also rotate their personnel off the ambulance every third shift (or something like that), giving them a break. " Pure " paramedics don't have that luxury - there's nothing to rotate them off to... DFR does use peak-demand units (non 24-hour units), but the medics earn OVERTIME for working them, and they're at STATIONS. They have a " home " that's not a gas station parking lot. Mike > The Dallas Fire Department rotates ambulances to fill in at different > stations as their system level drops. Is this not a form of SSM? They have also > rotated engines to various stations not only within the city, but into > neighboring cities as part of their mutual aid. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Actually, that's pretty much a misstatement. Dallas Fire-Rescue does use a " fill-in " system. BUT, Dallas Fire-Rescue uses satellite-location based dispatching to dispatch the closest unit, and has a formula built in to automatically kick out an engine/truck to accompany an ambulance exceeding the programmed, planned response threshhold. They've been doing that for 10+ years now... and can show the data for each call as to why each unit was assigned as closest, etc... and show that for extended response times for ambulances they're adding BLS responses to put providers on scene as fast as possible. Additionally, Dallas F/R has three paramedic engines that ALWAYS have a paramedic on them and carry ALS gear, supplementing ALS/MICU response in areas of town that are farther out and don't warrant MICU placement based on call volume, but do need ALS response within certain timelines. How many private companies place " sprint trucks " with ALS gear in heavy demand areas, supplementing their MICU coverage? While if a sector of the city does get low on ambulances, they will send a unit to " fill-in " , they're sending them TO A STATION, for a determined reason (all the response units in the area are out for an extended time, such as a hospital transport, etc.) - generally I've only seen this when 4 or more contiguous ambulances are out. They " fill-in " at place they can back in, rest, eat, sleep, whatever they need to do until relieved. Of course, they also rotate their personnel off the ambulance every third shift (or something like that), giving them a break. " Pure " paramedics don't have that luxury - there's nothing to rotate them off to... DFR does use peak-demand units (non 24-hour units), but the medics earn OVERTIME for working them, and they're at STATIONS. They have a " home " that's not a gas station parking lot. Mike > The Dallas Fire Department rotates ambulances to fill in at different > stations as their system level drops. Is this not a form of SSM? They have also > rotated engines to various stations not only within the city, but into > neighboring cities as part of their mutual aid. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 > > That's not SSM it's more resource management so as to prevent holes in > coverage during peak incidents. Covers are not based on a " prediction " they are > (or should be) based on covering an AREA overall. In the larger cities in the > Northeast you could have a major emergency literally strip a 20 or thirty > square city block area in minutes if more then say 4 alarms were struck for a > catastrophic incident. Which is exactly what happened in Dallas last week. Within minutes, a car ran into the front of a day care, injuring 8 + the driver and requiring a rescue response due to the car being IN a building; then an 18-wheeler hit a bridge abutment and promtply started burning and exploding due to the hazardous cargo. I-20 and I-45 were shut down and a 2-alarm response put on the incident. This is all in the same general area. Did DFR tell engines to go sit in grocery store parking lots? Did they send ambulances to gas stations? No. Knowing their units would be out of service for an extended time, they had units from better-covered areas move to some of the STATIONS the responding units came from... and their dispatch computer adjusted response zones appropriately, and added BLS resources for extended response times. I agree with , though - why don't major fire departments have ambulances at EVERY station, since EMS calls are the majority of their call volumes, and have HALF the personnel on HALF the equipment expense? Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 > > That's not SSM it's more resource management so as to prevent holes in > coverage during peak incidents. Covers are not based on a " prediction " they are > (or should be) based on covering an AREA overall. In the larger cities in the > Northeast you could have a major emergency literally strip a 20 or thirty > square city block area in minutes if more then say 4 alarms were struck for a > catastrophic incident. Which is exactly what happened in Dallas last week. Within minutes, a car ran into the front of a day care, injuring 8 + the driver and requiring a rescue response due to the car being IN a building; then an 18-wheeler hit a bridge abutment and promtply started burning and exploding due to the hazardous cargo. I-20 and I-45 were shut down and a 2-alarm response put on the incident. This is all in the same general area. Did DFR tell engines to go sit in grocery store parking lots? Did they send ambulances to gas stations? No. Knowing their units would be out of service for an extended time, they had units from better-covered areas move to some of the STATIONS the responding units came from... and their dispatch computer adjusted response zones appropriately, and added BLS resources for extended response times. I agree with , though - why don't major fire departments have ambulances at EVERY station, since EMS calls are the majority of their call volumes, and have HALF the personnel on HALF the equipment expense? Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 > > That's not SSM it's more resource management so as to prevent holes in > coverage during peak incidents. Covers are not based on a " prediction " they are > (or should be) based on covering an AREA overall. In the larger cities in the > Northeast you could have a major emergency literally strip a 20 or thirty > square city block area in minutes if more then say 4 alarms were struck for a > catastrophic incident. Which is exactly what happened in Dallas last week. Within minutes, a car ran into the front of a day care, injuring 8 + the driver and requiring a rescue response due to the car being IN a building; then an 18-wheeler hit a bridge abutment and promtply started burning and exploding due to the hazardous cargo. I-20 and I-45 were shut down and a 2-alarm response put on the incident. This is all in the same general area. Did DFR tell engines to go sit in grocery store parking lots? Did they send ambulances to gas stations? No. Knowing their units would be out of service for an extended time, they had units from better-covered areas move to some of the STATIONS the responding units came from... and their dispatch computer adjusted response zones appropriately, and added BLS resources for extended response times. I agree with , though - why don't major fire departments have ambulances at EVERY station, since EMS calls are the majority of their call volumes, and have HALF the personnel on HALF the equipment expense? Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would the baby still be in her? E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ Re: Re: SSM > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a paramedic > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have been > involved with the communication center during that time, and actually have > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have tremendous > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. Dispatchers do > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are constantly > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become a better > paramedic since that time. > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > Educator, PEMSS Program > Northwest Texas Hospital > Amarillo, TX > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would the baby still be in her? E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ Re: Re: SSM > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a paramedic > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have been > involved with the communication center during that time, and actually have > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have tremendous > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. Dispatchers do > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are constantly > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become a better > paramedic since that time. > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > Educator, PEMSS Program > Northwest Texas Hospital > Amarillo, TX > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would the baby still be in her? E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ Re: Re: SSM > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a paramedic > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have been > involved with the communication center during that time, and actually have > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have tremendous > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. Dispatchers do > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are constantly > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become a better > paramedic since that time. > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > Educator, PEMSS Program > Northwest Texas Hospital > Amarillo, TX > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 , It's curious that you left out EMSAT, the only Texas organization that represents rank and file medics. The TAA is a MANAGEMENT driven organization. Are you a manager or a worker? If you get blood on your hands, your place is in EMSAT, not TAA. Gene Gandy, EMSAT Board Member > Bill, Hunt county is similar in the drive from Greenville to Commerce. > Often > it does not make sense from a field point of view why a crew needs to drive > 30 minutes to post. However, if the move was not made, what would the ETA > to > the next call be? > > Rural Texas is is the victim/benefactor of SSM. Do not get me wrong, I am > not a big supporter of it, I am just trying to point out a few key items > that > lead to SSM. > > From my observations, rural EMS is confronted with several problems: > > 1) Larger areas to cover that lead to longer response and transport times. > > 2) Less dense population base per square mile. > > 3) Average lower mean household income which translates into less tax > revenue > for the local government and ultimatley less revenue for public safety. > > 4) Higher percentage of uninsured households than the rest of the Texas > (which currently has one of the highest rates of uninsured households per > capita in > the nation). > > 5) Dwindling reimbursement and stricter reimbursment criteria from the state > and federal programs (Medicare and Medicaid). > > 6) Fewer trained personnel to actually ride the ambulances. Not to mention > that since Texas went to the Natinal Registry Curriculum, the pass rate for > the > folks new to EMS is down by nearly 40% and the actual enrollment is down as > well. > > The bottom line is that the bottom line dictates what can and cannot be > accomplished with limited means. The truth of the matter is that the rural > systems--volunteer departments in particular) are becoming more and more > dependent on > grants, private donations and local fund raisers. The larger rural services > such as ETMC EMS and Champion have some subsidy money and subscription > programs in place to help offset the cost of operating. > > There is no easy fix to the argument of SSM. In a perfect world, we would > have a fire station with apparatus and gold plated MICUs every square mile > and > free trauma center in every community. The only option for now is for EMS > providers and personnel to pull together, quit bickering and join groups > like the > Texas Ambulance Association and the American Ambulance Association to lobby > for reform. As a united voice we can and will make changes. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 , It's curious that you left out EMSAT, the only Texas organization that represents rank and file medics. The TAA is a MANAGEMENT driven organization. Are you a manager or a worker? If you get blood on your hands, your place is in EMSAT, not TAA. Gene Gandy, EMSAT Board Member > Bill, Hunt county is similar in the drive from Greenville to Commerce. > Often > it does not make sense from a field point of view why a crew needs to drive > 30 minutes to post. However, if the move was not made, what would the ETA > to > the next call be? > > Rural Texas is is the victim/benefactor of SSM. Do not get me wrong, I am > not a big supporter of it, I am just trying to point out a few key items > that > lead to SSM. > > From my observations, rural EMS is confronted with several problems: > > 1) Larger areas to cover that lead to longer response and transport times. > > 2) Less dense population base per square mile. > > 3) Average lower mean household income which translates into less tax > revenue > for the local government and ultimatley less revenue for public safety. > > 4) Higher percentage of uninsured households than the rest of the Texas > (which currently has one of the highest rates of uninsured households per > capita in > the nation). > > 5) Dwindling reimbursement and stricter reimbursment criteria from the state > and federal programs (Medicare and Medicaid). > > 6) Fewer trained personnel to actually ride the ambulances. Not to mention > that since Texas went to the Natinal Registry Curriculum, the pass rate for > the > folks new to EMS is down by nearly 40% and the actual enrollment is down as > well. > > The bottom line is that the bottom line dictates what can and cannot be > accomplished with limited means. The truth of the matter is that the rural > systems--volunteer departments in particular) are becoming more and more > dependent on > grants, private donations and local fund raisers. The larger rural services > such as ETMC EMS and Champion have some subsidy money and subscription > programs in place to help offset the cost of operating. > > There is no easy fix to the argument of SSM. In a perfect world, we would > have a fire station with apparatus and gold plated MICUs every square mile > and > free trauma center in every community. The only option for now is for EMS > providers and personnel to pull together, quit bickering and join groups > like the > Texas Ambulance Association and the American Ambulance Association to lobby > for reform. As a united voice we can and will make changes. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 , It's curious that you left out EMSAT, the only Texas organization that represents rank and file medics. The TAA is a MANAGEMENT driven organization. Are you a manager or a worker? If you get blood on your hands, your place is in EMSAT, not TAA. Gene Gandy, EMSAT Board Member > Bill, Hunt county is similar in the drive from Greenville to Commerce. > Often > it does not make sense from a field point of view why a crew needs to drive > 30 minutes to post. However, if the move was not made, what would the ETA > to > the next call be? > > Rural Texas is is the victim/benefactor of SSM. Do not get me wrong, I am > not a big supporter of it, I am just trying to point out a few key items > that > lead to SSM. > > From my observations, rural EMS is confronted with several problems: > > 1) Larger areas to cover that lead to longer response and transport times. > > 2) Less dense population base per square mile. > > 3) Average lower mean household income which translates into less tax > revenue > for the local government and ultimatley less revenue for public safety. > > 4) Higher percentage of uninsured households than the rest of the Texas > (which currently has one of the highest rates of uninsured households per > capita in > the nation). > > 5) Dwindling reimbursement and stricter reimbursment criteria from the state > and federal programs (Medicare and Medicaid). > > 6) Fewer trained personnel to actually ride the ambulances. Not to mention > that since Texas went to the Natinal Registry Curriculum, the pass rate for > the > folks new to EMS is down by nearly 40% and the actual enrollment is down as > well. > > The bottom line is that the bottom line dictates what can and cannot be > accomplished with limited means. The truth of the matter is that the rural > systems--volunteer departments in particular) are becoming more and more > dependent on > grants, private donations and local fund raisers. The larger rural services > such as ETMC EMS and Champion have some subsidy money and subscription > programs in place to help offset the cost of operating. > > There is no easy fix to the argument of SSM. In a perfect world, we would > have a fire station with apparatus and gold plated MICUs every square mile > and > free trauma center in every community. The only option for now is for EMS > providers and personnel to pull together, quit bickering and join groups > like the > Texas Ambulance Association and the American Ambulance Association to lobby > for reform. As a united voice we can and will make changes. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Yes, . The baby would have been unauthorized to exit, pending arrival of medically trained personnel. Haven't you been at the GETAC meetings? This has been the rule now for quite sometime. GG > Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would > the > baby still be in her? > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > Midlothian, TX > > My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! > http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > paramedic > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > been > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > actually have > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > tremendous > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > Dispatchers do > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > constantly > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > a better > > paramedic since that time. > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Yes, . The baby would have been unauthorized to exit, pending arrival of medically trained personnel. Haven't you been at the GETAC meetings? This has been the rule now for quite sometime. GG > Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would > the > baby still be in her? > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > Midlothian, TX > > My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! > http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > paramedic > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > been > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > actually have > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > tremendous > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > Dispatchers do > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > constantly > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > a better > > paramedic since that time. > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Yes, . The baby would have been unauthorized to exit, pending arrival of medically trained personnel. Haven't you been at the GETAC meetings? This has been the rule now for quite sometime. GG > Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would > the > baby still be in her? > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > Midlothian, TX > > My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! > http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > paramedic > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > been > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > actually have > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > tremendous > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > Dispatchers do > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > constantly > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > a better > > paramedic since that time. > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 I wish also to add a corollary to that last post. Since the advent of LifePak 12s and such, no one is authorized to die unless there is a strip run which confirms the death. All patients are notified to comply with this order. The penalty for noncompliance will be having to spend eternity reading the posts on this list. GG > Yes, .  The baby would have been unauthorized to exit, pending > arrival > of medically trained personnel.  Haven't you been at the GETAC meetings?  > This has been the rule now for quite sometime. > > GG > > > > > Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would > > the > > baby still be in her? > > > > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > > Midlothian, TX > > > > My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! > > http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ > > > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > > paramedic > > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > > been > > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > > actually have > > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > > tremendous > > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > > Dispatchers do > > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > > constantly > > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > > a better > > > paramedic since that time. > > > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 I wish also to add a corollary to that last post. Since the advent of LifePak 12s and such, no one is authorized to die unless there is a strip run which confirms the death. All patients are notified to comply with this order. The penalty for noncompliance will be having to spend eternity reading the posts on this list. GG > Yes, .  The baby would have been unauthorized to exit, pending > arrival > of medically trained personnel.  Haven't you been at the GETAC meetings?  > This has been the rule now for quite sometime. > > GG > > > > > Had you not given the instructions, would the outcome be the same? Would > > the > > baby still be in her? > > > > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > > Midlothian, TX > > > > My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! > > http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ > > > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > > paramedic > > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > > been > > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > > actually have > > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > > tremendous > > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > > Dispatchers do > > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > > constantly > > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > > a better > > > paramedic since that time. > > > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 I don't know Doc. Is it possible to recreate the exact same event, with the exact same patient, with the exact same environment, & develop the same outcome if PAI's had not been given? hmmmm.... PAI's may not work for some but is it more detrimental for a person to do CPR on a seizure patient, in which the caller isn't given correct instructions & for the call-taker to ask the appropriate questions & derive that it is a seizure & not a cardiac/respiratory arrest & to have the caller quit breaking the ribs of that seizure patient & then give them the correct treatment procedures prior to EMS arrival? (Especially if this happens to an infant with a febrile seizure - parents FREAK OUT!!!) It may truly be reassurance to the caller rather than help to the patient's outcome but this is again, what has come to be expected by the general population. Chad (I'll be waiting for all the replies) :-) > > a, I've got the utmost respect for the exceedingly difficult > job that dispatchers do. What I do question is the proof/efficacy of MPDS > dispatching and the proprietary methodology. > > > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B > > Austin, Texas > > > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > paramedic > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > been > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > actually have > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > tremendous > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > Dispatchers do > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > constantly > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > a better > > paramedic since that time. > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 I don't know Doc. Is it possible to recreate the exact same event, with the exact same patient, with the exact same environment, & develop the same outcome if PAI's had not been given? hmmmm.... PAI's may not work for some but is it more detrimental for a person to do CPR on a seizure patient, in which the caller isn't given correct instructions & for the call-taker to ask the appropriate questions & derive that it is a seizure & not a cardiac/respiratory arrest & to have the caller quit breaking the ribs of that seizure patient & then give them the correct treatment procedures prior to EMS arrival? (Especially if this happens to an infant with a febrile seizure - parents FREAK OUT!!!) It may truly be reassurance to the caller rather than help to the patient's outcome but this is again, what has come to be expected by the general population. Chad (I'll be waiting for all the replies) :-) > > a, I've got the utmost respect for the exceedingly difficult > job that dispatchers do. What I do question is the proof/efficacy of MPDS > dispatching and the proprietary methodology. > > > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B > > Austin, Texas > > > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > paramedic > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > been > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > actually have > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > tremendous > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > Dispatchers do > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > constantly > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > a better > > paramedic since that time. > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 I don't know Doc. Is it possible to recreate the exact same event, with the exact same patient, with the exact same environment, & develop the same outcome if PAI's had not been given? hmmmm.... PAI's may not work for some but is it more detrimental for a person to do CPR on a seizure patient, in which the caller isn't given correct instructions & for the call-taker to ask the appropriate questions & derive that it is a seizure & not a cardiac/respiratory arrest & to have the caller quit breaking the ribs of that seizure patient & then give them the correct treatment procedures prior to EMS arrival? (Especially if this happens to an infant with a febrile seizure - parents FREAK OUT!!!) It may truly be reassurance to the caller rather than help to the patient's outcome but this is again, what has come to be expected by the general population. Chad (I'll be waiting for all the replies) :-) > > a, I've got the utmost respect for the exceedingly difficult > job that dispatchers do. What I do question is the proof/efficacy of MPDS > dispatching and the proprietary methodology. > > > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B > > Austin, Texas > > > > Re: Re: SSM > > > > > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a > paramedic > > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have > been > > involved with the communication center during that time, and > actually have > > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have > tremendous > > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. > Dispatchers do > > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are > constantly > > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become > a better > > paramedic since that time. > > > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > > Educator, PEMSS Program > > Northwest Texas Hospital > > Amarillo, TX > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 If an ambulance had not been sent...would the outcome have been the same? Would the baby still be in the mother? So not only is MPDS not necessary but ambulances to pregnancy aren't either.... Dudley Re: Re: SSM > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a paramedic > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have been > involved with the communication center during that time, and actually have > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have tremendous > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. Dispatchers do > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are constantly > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become a better > paramedic since that time. > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > Educator, PEMSS Program > Northwest Texas Hospital > Amarillo, TX > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 If an ambulance had not been sent...would the outcome have been the same? Would the baby still be in the mother? So not only is MPDS not necessary but ambulances to pregnancy aren't either.... Dudley Re: Re: SSM > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a paramedic > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have been > involved with the communication center during that time, and actually have > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have tremendous > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. Dispatchers do > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are constantly > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become a better > paramedic since that time. > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > Educator, PEMSS Program > Northwest Texas Hospital > Amarillo, TX > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 If an ambulance had not been sent...would the outcome have been the same? Would the baby still be in the mother? So not only is MPDS not necessary but ambulances to pregnancy aren't either.... Dudley Re: Re: SSM > > > > I probably felt the same way you seem to feel, but i have been a paramedic > for the last 24 years, the last 5 of those as an educator. I have been > involved with the communication center during that time, and actually have > become certified by NAEMD - yes the " front " for MPDS, but I have tremendous > respect for dispatchers since i have left actual field work. Dispatchers do > a job that no one else would do, certainly not most Paramedics. > Dispatchers are constantly making immediate decisions, and are constantly > criticized, and ridiculed by " professionals " . I have truly become a better > paramedic since that time. > > Lynn MBA NREMT-P > Educator, PEMSS Program > Northwest Texas Hospital > Amarillo, TX > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Barry - Where you work, they need more units, but are unwilling to pay. If there WEREN'T any units being brought in from outside the system, call response times would be higher (or calls would be queued) and people would scream, bitch and moan, and politicians might pay more for the ambulances they need instead of just paying enough to contract with someone to get by. They're lucky that your company has enough ambulances to bring in from the outside... Bottom line? SSM costs EMT's and paramedics jobs. If SSM weren't in place and people demanded response times, and ponied up the money for the units, more paramedics and EMT's would be employed. As it is now, you can be two medics at the same time - the medic covering your district, and the medic covering the empty district. That is, of course, until you get two calls... Mike > Where I work, we post units when other stations in the county are running > calls, in order to prevent excessive response times in the empty districts, > but not after 0100 unless the county drops to status 1. The worst part of > posting is WHERE it occurs, rather than the actual posting itself, imho. If > we had a better location to park our carcasses at, it wouldn't be so > unbearable. I personally hate posting, but it is (unfortunately) part of > the job. > > Barry McClung, EMT-P > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Barry - Where you work, they need more units, but are unwilling to pay. If there WEREN'T any units being brought in from outside the system, call response times would be higher (or calls would be queued) and people would scream, bitch and moan, and politicians might pay more for the ambulances they need instead of just paying enough to contract with someone to get by. They're lucky that your company has enough ambulances to bring in from the outside... Bottom line? SSM costs EMT's and paramedics jobs. If SSM weren't in place and people demanded response times, and ponied up the money for the units, more paramedics and EMT's would be employed. As it is now, you can be two medics at the same time - the medic covering your district, and the medic covering the empty district. That is, of course, until you get two calls... Mike > Where I work, we post units when other stations in the county are running > calls, in order to prevent excessive response times in the empty districts, > but not after 0100 unless the county drops to status 1. The worst part of > posting is WHERE it occurs, rather than the actual posting itself, imho. If > we had a better location to park our carcasses at, it wouldn't be so > unbearable. I personally hate posting, but it is (unfortunately) part of > the job. > > Barry McClung, EMT-P > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 27, 2005 Barry - Where you work, they need more units, but are unwilling to pay. If there WEREN'T any units being brought in from outside the system, call response times would be higher (or calls would be queued) and people would scream, bitch and moan, and politicians might pay more for the ambulances they need instead of just paying enough to contract with someone to get by. They're lucky that your company has enough ambulances to bring in from the outside... Bottom line? SSM costs EMT's and paramedics jobs. If SSM weren't in place and people demanded response times, and ponied up the money for the units, more paramedics and EMT's would be employed. As it is now, you can be two medics at the same time - the medic covering your district, and the medic covering the empty district. That is, of course, until you get two calls... Mike > Where I work, we post units when other stations in the county are running > calls, in order to prevent excessive response times in the empty districts, > but not after 0100 unless the county drops to status 1. The worst part of > posting is WHERE it occurs, rather than the actual posting itself, imho. If > we had a better location to park our carcasses at, it wouldn't be so > unbearable. I personally hate posting, but it is (unfortunately) part of > the job. > > Barry McClung, EMT-P > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
