Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 Chad, If your SSM system is so wonderful, why does Tyler FD beat you to calls so often? And so far as there being " scientific evidence " that will hold up in court, forgiddaboudit. Your " 20 week " history is meaningless, and to think that you can defend placement because " the data told us to " is naive indeed. The " data " won't stand up. A statistician can debunk it in the blink of an eye. You do it because you're forced to by your management, which has been vaccinated by the Jack Stout Virus and because your system has invested millions in his theories and in partnerships with him. It's ALL about money, not having to build stations, and squeezing the last ounce of energy out of employees and equipment. There is an incestuous network of EMS managers who started in systems when Jack Stout was everything and a box of chocolates too. They are the " true believers " and they infect the industry from coast to coast and border to border. And they are about ONE THING and ONE THING only: M-O-N-E-Y. I used to be a Stout disciple, but I took the cure. The interesting thing is that they really don't save anything in the long run. So, face it. SSM is a " faith based " initiative. If you work for a Stoutian service, you'd better sing in the choir and sing loudly. I don't blame you for that. But take a realistic look at it and it simply does not hold up. Best, Gene G. > I agree with the Doc that those areas of town definitely generate > more > calls, which can easily be proven within our system. I think SSM is > just a defensible action placed within systems to provide that > scientific evidence when a complaint or court action is brought upon > an agency & they question why a unit was placed in a certain > location. They can then pull the previous 20-week data (which is > what > we use to implement our post plan) & use that to say, well this unit > was placed in this location because this data told us to do so. This > takes the human element out of the " guess work " (even though that's > all SSM is, guessing where the next life emergency will be). > > I have never examined any data regarding SSM but there is always an > argument from one side or other saying what works & what does not. > > I will say this though, when it's my family needing an ambulance, I'm > much happier knowing an ambulance may be 10 minutes closer sitting on > the side of the road rather than being woke up & having to make up > that distance during the emergency call. > > Chad > > > > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been > demonstrated > > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. > Thus, > > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of > town. > No > > cynicism--just truth: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 Chad, If your SSM system is so wonderful, why does Tyler FD beat you to calls so often? And so far as there being " scientific evidence " that will hold up in court, forgiddaboudit. Your " 20 week " history is meaningless, and to think that you can defend placement because " the data told us to " is naive indeed. The " data " won't stand up. A statistician can debunk it in the blink of an eye. You do it because you're forced to by your management, which has been vaccinated by the Jack Stout Virus and because your system has invested millions in his theories and in partnerships with him. It's ALL about money, not having to build stations, and squeezing the last ounce of energy out of employees and equipment. There is an incestuous network of EMS managers who started in systems when Jack Stout was everything and a box of chocolates too. They are the " true believers " and they infect the industry from coast to coast and border to border. And they are about ONE THING and ONE THING only: M-O-N-E-Y. I used to be a Stout disciple, but I took the cure. The interesting thing is that they really don't save anything in the long run. So, face it. SSM is a " faith based " initiative. If you work for a Stoutian service, you'd better sing in the choir and sing loudly. I don't blame you for that. But take a realistic look at it and it simply does not hold up. Best, Gene G. > I agree with the Doc that those areas of town definitely generate > more > calls, which can easily be proven within our system. I think SSM is > just a defensible action placed within systems to provide that > scientific evidence when a complaint or court action is brought upon > an agency & they question why a unit was placed in a certain > location. They can then pull the previous 20-week data (which is > what > we use to implement our post plan) & use that to say, well this unit > was placed in this location because this data told us to do so. This > takes the human element out of the " guess work " (even though that's > all SSM is, guessing where the next life emergency will be). > > I have never examined any data regarding SSM but there is always an > argument from one side or other saying what works & what does not. > > I will say this though, when it's my family needing an ambulance, I'm > much happier knowing an ambulance may be 10 minutes closer sitting on > the side of the road rather than being woke up & having to make up > that distance during the emergency call. > > Chad > > > > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been > demonstrated > > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. > Thus, > > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of > town. > No > > cynicism--just truth: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 Chad, If your SSM system is so wonderful, why does Tyler FD beat you to calls so often? And so far as there being " scientific evidence " that will hold up in court, forgiddaboudit. Your " 20 week " history is meaningless, and to think that you can defend placement because " the data told us to " is naive indeed. The " data " won't stand up. A statistician can debunk it in the blink of an eye. You do it because you're forced to by your management, which has been vaccinated by the Jack Stout Virus and because your system has invested millions in his theories and in partnerships with him. It's ALL about money, not having to build stations, and squeezing the last ounce of energy out of employees and equipment. There is an incestuous network of EMS managers who started in systems when Jack Stout was everything and a box of chocolates too. They are the " true believers " and they infect the industry from coast to coast and border to border. And they are about ONE THING and ONE THING only: M-O-N-E-Y. I used to be a Stout disciple, but I took the cure. The interesting thing is that they really don't save anything in the long run. So, face it. SSM is a " faith based " initiative. If you work for a Stoutian service, you'd better sing in the choir and sing loudly. I don't blame you for that. But take a realistic look at it and it simply does not hold up. Best, Gene G. > I agree with the Doc that those areas of town definitely generate > more > calls, which can easily be proven within our system. I think SSM is > just a defensible action placed within systems to provide that > scientific evidence when a complaint or court action is brought upon > an agency & they question why a unit was placed in a certain > location. They can then pull the previous 20-week data (which is > what > we use to implement our post plan) & use that to say, well this unit > was placed in this location because this data told us to do so. This > takes the human element out of the " guess work " (even though that's > all SSM is, guessing where the next life emergency will be). > > I have never examined any data regarding SSM but there is always an > argument from one side or other saying what works & what does not. > > I will say this though, when it's my family needing an ambulance, I'm > much happier knowing an ambulance may be 10 minutes closer sitting on > the side of the road rather than being woke up & having to make up > that distance during the emergency call. > > Chad > > > > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been > demonstrated > > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. > Thus, > > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of > town. > No > > cynicism--just truth: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 In a message dated 5/25/2005 8:10:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, carichey@... writes: The same goes for working a 24 hour shift. That's all they talked about in a recent management class we attended. How awful 24 hour shifts are. But it's something the industry has used for decades & will continue to use. Please tell me he didn't say that! Because we do it (what it may be) that way has got to be the absolute worst excuse to continue anything. You said it was a management class perhaps your executive management needs a lesson or three in LEQADERSHIP. ONLY EMS can save EMS and the first time we need to save EMS from is EMS MANAGERS! What we need more of is EMS LEADERS. If Status Quo sucks it's time to change it! Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 I agree with the Doc that those areas of town definitely generate more calls, which can easily be proven within our system. I think SSM is just a defensible action placed within systems to provide that scientific evidence when a complaint or court action is brought upon an agency & they question why a unit was placed in a certain location. They can then pull the previous 20-week data (which is what we use to implement our post plan) & use that to say, well this unit was placed in this location because this data told us to do so. This takes the human element out of the " guess work " (even though that's all SSM is, guessing where the next life emergency will be). I have never examined any data regarding SSM but there is always an argument from one side or other saying what works & what does not. I will say this though, when it's my family needing an ambulance, I'm much happier knowing an ambulance may be 10 minutes closer sitting on the side of the road rather than being woke up & having to make up that distance during the emergency call. Chad > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been demonstrated > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. Thus, > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of town. No > cynicism--just truth: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 I agree with the Doc that those areas of town definitely generate more calls, which can easily be proven within our system. I think SSM is just a defensible action placed within systems to provide that scientific evidence when a complaint or court action is brought upon an agency & they question why a unit was placed in a certain location. They can then pull the previous 20-week data (which is what we use to implement our post plan) & use that to say, well this unit was placed in this location because this data told us to do so. This takes the human element out of the " guess work " (even though that's all SSM is, guessing where the next life emergency will be). I have never examined any data regarding SSM but there is always an argument from one side or other saying what works & what does not. I will say this though, when it's my family needing an ambulance, I'm much happier knowing an ambulance may be 10 minutes closer sitting on the side of the road rather than being woke up & having to make up that distance during the emergency call. Chad > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been demonstrated > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. Thus, > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of town. No > cynicism--just truth: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 I agree with the Doc that those areas of town definitely generate more calls, which can easily be proven within our system. I think SSM is just a defensible action placed within systems to provide that scientific evidence when a complaint or court action is brought upon an agency & they question why a unit was placed in a certain location. They can then pull the previous 20-week data (which is what we use to implement our post plan) & use that to say, well this unit was placed in this location because this data told us to do so. This takes the human element out of the " guess work " (even though that's all SSM is, guessing where the next life emergency will be). I have never examined any data regarding SSM but there is always an argument from one side or other saying what works & what does not. I will say this though, when it's my family needing an ambulance, I'm much happier knowing an ambulance may be 10 minutes closer sitting on the side of the road rather than being woke up & having to make up that distance during the emergency call. Chad > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been demonstrated > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. Thus, > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of town. No > cynicism--just truth: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 Well you definitely have more experience in the EMS system than I do & I'm not here to argue or defend anything about SSM with my limited experience to date. Tyler FD does beat us to calls from one of their 9 stations throughout the city & SSM is a morale drainer for crews. The same goes for working a 24 hour shift. That's all they talked about in a recent management class we attended. How awful 24 hour shifts are. But it's something the industry has used for decades & will continue to use. No system will ever be perfect, no one will ever be completely satisified & as you said, it's all about M-O-N-E-Y & that's the bottom line & number 1 priority for any business. It's not about those that are bringing in that M-O-N-E-Y, just how it gets there. Chad > > > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been > > demonstrated > > > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. > > Thus, > > > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of > > town. > > No > > > cynicism--just truth: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 Well you definitely have more experience in the EMS system than I do & I'm not here to argue or defend anything about SSM with my limited experience to date. Tyler FD does beat us to calls from one of their 9 stations throughout the city & SSM is a morale drainer for crews. The same goes for working a 24 hour shift. That's all they talked about in a recent management class we attended. How awful 24 hour shifts are. But it's something the industry has used for decades & will continue to use. No system will ever be perfect, no one will ever be completely satisified & as you said, it's all about M-O-N-E-Y & that's the bottom line & number 1 priority for any business. It's not about those that are bringing in that M-O-N-E-Y, just how it gets there. Chad > > > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been > > demonstrated > > > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. > > Thus, > > > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of > > town. > > No > > > cynicism--just truth: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2005 Well you definitely have more experience in the EMS system than I do & I'm not here to argue or defend anything about SSM with my limited experience to date. Tyler FD does beat us to calls from one of their 9 stations throughout the city & SSM is a morale drainer for crews. The same goes for working a 24 hour shift. That's all they talked about in a recent management class we attended. How awful 24 hour shifts are. But it's something the industry has used for decades & will continue to use. No system will ever be perfect, no one will ever be completely satisified & as you said, it's all about M-O-N-E-Y & that's the bottom line & number 1 priority for any business. It's not about those that are bringing in that M-O-N-E-Y, just how it gets there. Chad > > > You are missing the point. Under nobody's control, it has been > > demonstrated > > > that there is more EMS demand in lower socioeconomic parts of town. > > Thus, > > > EMS is diverted there and away from the more affluent parts of > > town. > > No > > > cynicism--just truth: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 How are you sure it works? Show us your data. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ RE: Re: SSM I am sure the SSM does indeed work for some systems. In Houston, the privet services use it to preposition their units to be closer to the hospitals, nursing home, ect that they serve. But, the city EMS/FD does not use SSM. They handle such a large call volume that they cannot do it. City of Beaumont does not use SSM as for as I know. On the other side, ETMC in Pasadena uses a type of SSM by staffing peek units on certain days and times. No data can predict the future; data is a collection of information used to prove a point. It can support you or hurt you depending on how you read it. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 How are you sure it works? Show us your data. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ RE: Re: SSM I am sure the SSM does indeed work for some systems. In Houston, the privet services use it to preposition their units to be closer to the hospitals, nursing home, ect that they serve. But, the city EMS/FD does not use SSM. They handle such a large call volume that they cannot do it. City of Beaumont does not use SSM as for as I know. On the other side, ETMC in Pasadena uses a type of SSM by staffing peek units on certain days and times. No data can predict the future; data is a collection of information used to prove a point. It can support you or hurt you depending on how you read it. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 How are you sure it works? Show us your data. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ RE: Re: SSM I am sure the SSM does indeed work for some systems. In Houston, the privet services use it to preposition their units to be closer to the hospitals, nursing home, ect that they serve. But, the city EMS/FD does not use SSM. They handle such a large call volume that they cannot do it. City of Beaumont does not use SSM as for as I know. On the other side, ETMC in Pasadena uses a type of SSM by staffing peek units on certain days and times. No data can predict the future; data is a collection of information used to prove a point. It can support you or hurt you depending on how you read it. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 SSM = System Status Mayhem I've worked in systems that used or tried to use the purest form of SSM as well as modified forms or bits and pieces if you will. I've also seen systems that utilized no form of system management at all. I've sat under the big tree, under bridges and behind billboards; as that was where somebody decided a truck should be based on the time of day, day of the week and number of available vehicles. ly, most of it is guess work and occasionally right and sometimes wrong. HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, consider a county of 200,000 people scattered over a 1000 square mile area serviced by 10 ambulances. The densely populated areas covers maybe 25% of the county but that 25% is cut into three distinct areas some 20 miles apart and accounts for 75% of the population. One of the ambulances is rather remote but because someone decided to put their cabin in the National Forest along with a couple other folks, it is important to assure they too have EMS access. Now consider that 90% or 9 of the 10 ambulances are busy on ambulance runs. What do you do with the one you have available? Do you leave them to sit or move them to a more strategic location? Does it depend on how long the rest or at least some of the calls have been in progress? Does it depend on if everyone is transporting or some of the ambulances are at destination and will be returning to service soon? It would make sense to some to put the available ambulance in the middle of the county, as it would be geographically prudent. It makes great sense to some to move them away from the population areas as that is where the 90% (in three or more locations) are located and will be returning to service in an anticipated timeframe. To most of the medics sitting at the station, especially the one sitting at the station in the National Forest that makes 3 calls per week, to leave them sitting, in front of the TV. The point to the exercise, a plan to manage the system is important. One decides what works best for the community and the geographical area they serve. Whatever decisions are made to manage the system is a system status plan. If everyday, Monday through Friday between at 5:25 pm and 5:38 pm a major accident occurred on the same highway inside a one-mile stretch of road, would it be prudent to have emergency personnel in the area? The question begs the answer but that sort or type of consideration of what the demands of a system is important. Although one might want to have an ambulance, police, fire truck, helicopter and the CISD team available for rapid deployment and transport to a burn center with one patient suffering from a 3% body surface area of a 2nd degree burn, we would also want to consider what the cause or reasons for the accidents are and proactively try to influence the avoidance of the accident. I tend to believe that a well thought out plan with the ability to use PRUDENT judgment is defensible and non discriminatory. Our Esquires on the list will likely agree; you will not eliminate the potential of litigation by an action any less than you may promote litigation by a failure to act. An equal and compelling argument can be made on most issues. It is too often the better lawyer, not the stronger case that wins in a court battle. Consider a multi box fire alarm was pulled on the west side of town and the FD responded the remaining resources are slim. The fire ground commander needs additional equipment and makes the request; more equipment starts rolling and arrives. Is anyone on this board going to try to convince us that the next fire call will find that all the equipment has been dedicated to the one fire and no contingent plan has been made? Of course it has. The FD by nature; plan and preplan for most every possible consideration including moving up equipment and backing into other stations or locations. Managing a system is not a new idea. The extreme of how the system is managed is where a good idea became a bad one. bkw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 In a message dated 5/25/2005 11:48:19 PM Central Standard Time, paramedicop@... writes: <SSM is harmful. It harms medics by fatiguing them prematurely, it> <harms communities by taking away the medic's " ties " to their local> <area - it puts them in the position of being treated like a resource> ,instead of a responder.> The last time I checked, paramedics, emt's, firefighter's, police officers and first responders ARE resources to their communites. I do not believe that SSM in and of itself is harmful, but as one poster stated in a previous message, extremes of the system status plan (as in most anything else in life) can be harmful or produce a negative effect. Speaking from experience, consistently running 16 or more calls on a 24 hour shift is much more fatiguing than driving several miles from post-to-post. Why not just eliminate all of the 24 hours shifts in a pure SSM system? Sure it breaks from tradition, but the crews would not be over worked or severely fatigued after a 9, 12 or 14 hour shift. With reference to the " bean counters, " they are doing their jobs by keeping their organization (whether private, municipal or non-profit; EMS, fire or animal control) within their budgets. And yes, it all does come down to the bottom line. As benevolant as our industry is, it still takes money to operate any type of system. Consider that the next time one cranks the station air conditioning to sub-zero or leaves the motor running on a rig while having lunch somewhere or even pre-spiking an IV at the beginning of a shift because it may or may not be needed. Everything has a cost--even the pocket full of gloves or loose IV catheters that people accidentally go home with. How many EMS personnel do you know that return it all to the provider---or does it go into a personal aid bag or the volunteer department? One of the fundemental differences between private and municipal services is the source of the revenue. Municipal based services have a tax base to fall back on if their EMS billing falls short they or have the option of issuing bonds. Therefore (theoretically at least) your municipal systems have the budget to build fully equipped stations for the ambulances, engines, trucks and every other piece of apparatus needed to house the equipment--not to mention the payroll costs for dozens if not hundreds of people on a 24/48 schedule. I won't even begin to touch the additional administrative and support costs--not to mention the AFFA and other union contributions to the cost. However, even a municipal-based system can experience severe budget deficits---look at the Wilmer-Hutchins ISD. They could not even make payoll recently. I am sure that you chiefs out their can relate to addressing the city council for dollars from the contingency fund for repairs because the department does not have the budget. So if you are complaining about SSM and you not are in a position that relates to the bugdet, are you sincere about the " next call " or are you being selfish and simply complaining about the conditions surrounding your chosen profession under the pretext of preparedness? Just my thoughts. I'll get off of my soapbox now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 In a message dated 5/25/2005 11:48:19 PM Central Standard Time, paramedicop@... writes: <SSM is harmful. It harms medics by fatiguing them prematurely, it> <harms communities by taking away the medic's " ties " to their local> <area - it puts them in the position of being treated like a resource> ,instead of a responder.> The last time I checked, paramedics, emt's, firefighter's, police officers and first responders ARE resources to their communites. I do not believe that SSM in and of itself is harmful, but as one poster stated in a previous message, extremes of the system status plan (as in most anything else in life) can be harmful or produce a negative effect. Speaking from experience, consistently running 16 or more calls on a 24 hour shift is much more fatiguing than driving several miles from post-to-post. Why not just eliminate all of the 24 hours shifts in a pure SSM system? Sure it breaks from tradition, but the crews would not be over worked or severely fatigued after a 9, 12 or 14 hour shift. With reference to the " bean counters, " they are doing their jobs by keeping their organization (whether private, municipal or non-profit; EMS, fire or animal control) within their budgets. And yes, it all does come down to the bottom line. As benevolant as our industry is, it still takes money to operate any type of system. Consider that the next time one cranks the station air conditioning to sub-zero or leaves the motor running on a rig while having lunch somewhere or even pre-spiking an IV at the beginning of a shift because it may or may not be needed. Everything has a cost--even the pocket full of gloves or loose IV catheters that people accidentally go home with. How many EMS personnel do you know that return it all to the provider---or does it go into a personal aid bag or the volunteer department? One of the fundemental differences between private and municipal services is the source of the revenue. Municipal based services have a tax base to fall back on if their EMS billing falls short they or have the option of issuing bonds. Therefore (theoretically at least) your municipal systems have the budget to build fully equipped stations for the ambulances, engines, trucks and every other piece of apparatus needed to house the equipment--not to mention the payroll costs for dozens if not hundreds of people on a 24/48 schedule. I won't even begin to touch the additional administrative and support costs--not to mention the AFFA and other union contributions to the cost. However, even a municipal-based system can experience severe budget deficits---look at the Wilmer-Hutchins ISD. They could not even make payoll recently. I am sure that you chiefs out their can relate to addressing the city council for dollars from the contingency fund for repairs because the department does not have the budget. So if you are complaining about SSM and you not are in a position that relates to the bugdet, are you sincere about the " next call " or are you being selfish and simply complaining about the conditions surrounding your chosen profession under the pretext of preparedness? Just my thoughts. I'll get off of my soapbox now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 In a message dated 5/25/2005 11:48:19 PM Central Standard Time, paramedicop@... writes: <SSM is harmful. It harms medics by fatiguing them prematurely, it> <harms communities by taking away the medic's " ties " to their local> <area - it puts them in the position of being treated like a resource> ,instead of a responder.> The last time I checked, paramedics, emt's, firefighter's, police officers and first responders ARE resources to their communites. I do not believe that SSM in and of itself is harmful, but as one poster stated in a previous message, extremes of the system status plan (as in most anything else in life) can be harmful or produce a negative effect. Speaking from experience, consistently running 16 or more calls on a 24 hour shift is much more fatiguing than driving several miles from post-to-post. Why not just eliminate all of the 24 hours shifts in a pure SSM system? Sure it breaks from tradition, but the crews would not be over worked or severely fatigued after a 9, 12 or 14 hour shift. With reference to the " bean counters, " they are doing their jobs by keeping their organization (whether private, municipal or non-profit; EMS, fire or animal control) within their budgets. And yes, it all does come down to the bottom line. As benevolant as our industry is, it still takes money to operate any type of system. Consider that the next time one cranks the station air conditioning to sub-zero or leaves the motor running on a rig while having lunch somewhere or even pre-spiking an IV at the beginning of a shift because it may or may not be needed. Everything has a cost--even the pocket full of gloves or loose IV catheters that people accidentally go home with. How many EMS personnel do you know that return it all to the provider---or does it go into a personal aid bag or the volunteer department? One of the fundemental differences between private and municipal services is the source of the revenue. Municipal based services have a tax base to fall back on if their EMS billing falls short they or have the option of issuing bonds. Therefore (theoretically at least) your municipal systems have the budget to build fully equipped stations for the ambulances, engines, trucks and every other piece of apparatus needed to house the equipment--not to mention the payroll costs for dozens if not hundreds of people on a 24/48 schedule. I won't even begin to touch the additional administrative and support costs--not to mention the AFFA and other union contributions to the cost. However, even a municipal-based system can experience severe budget deficits---look at the Wilmer-Hutchins ISD. They could not even make payoll recently. I am sure that you chiefs out their can relate to addressing the city council for dollars from the contingency fund for repairs because the department does not have the budget. So if you are complaining about SSM and you not are in a position that relates to the bugdet, are you sincere about the " next call " or are you being selfish and simply complaining about the conditions surrounding your chosen profession under the pretext of preparedness? Just my thoughts. I'll get off of my soapbox now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 <Actually there is a Canadian study that showed that back pain increased 79%> <once Ottawa EMS went to SSM. I'll have to find the cite.> I think that study also had something to do with the lack of arm rests on the ambulance chairs. Once the chairs came equipped with arm rests, the complaints of back pain was significantly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 <Actually there is a Canadian study that showed that back pain increased 79%> <once Ottawa EMS went to SSM. I'll have to find the cite.> I think that study also had something to do with the lack of arm rests on the ambulance chairs. Once the chairs came equipped with arm rests, the complaints of back pain was significantly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 <Actually there is a Canadian study that showed that back pain increased 79%> <once Ottawa EMS went to SSM. I'll have to find the cite.> I think that study also had something to do with the lack of arm rests on the ambulance chairs. Once the chairs came equipped with arm rests, the complaints of back pain was significantly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 No data to give Doc. Just an opinion is all. I can say that several transfer outfits in Houston use to pre post their units in order for them to be closer to the facilities that they have contracts with. Consider this if you will, if someone was to take an ambulance and have it station in North Houston and a call comes in at the medical center. It is 17:30 your contract states that you will have a unit at the call location in 45 minutes or you could run the risk of loosing their business. You as a company owner could A. hope your crew are capable of driving fast enough through the rush hour traffic and make the trip in time or B. have them pre posted near the medical center so that when the call drops they simply drive three or four miles and take care of business. Witch option is used? I know someone could say why not get a station near the medical center and avoid staging? A good question to be sure, in answer what happens if your company cannot afford the rent at one such location? Do you as a company owner simply decide that the contracts are not worth having your crews staged because they may not like it? Even though running the calls is how the company generates income that is needed to pay the crews. Having done transfer work and now 911 only I can say that in the transfer side in the Houston area due to the traffic, distances, and other uncontrollable factors. SSM does indeed work. I have no DATA to prove this, just a few years of doing it. For the record I did not like it either. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 No data to give Doc. Just an opinion is all. I can say that several transfer outfits in Houston use to pre post their units in order for them to be closer to the facilities that they have contracts with. Consider this if you will, if someone was to take an ambulance and have it station in North Houston and a call comes in at the medical center. It is 17:30 your contract states that you will have a unit at the call location in 45 minutes or you could run the risk of loosing their business. You as a company owner could A. hope your crew are capable of driving fast enough through the rush hour traffic and make the trip in time or B. have them pre posted near the medical center so that when the call drops they simply drive three or four miles and take care of business. Witch option is used? I know someone could say why not get a station near the medical center and avoid staging? A good question to be sure, in answer what happens if your company cannot afford the rent at one such location? Do you as a company owner simply decide that the contracts are not worth having your crews staged because they may not like it? Even though running the calls is how the company generates income that is needed to pay the crews. Having done transfer work and now 911 only I can say that in the transfer side in the Houston area due to the traffic, distances, and other uncontrollable factors. SSM does indeed work. I have no DATA to prove this, just a few years of doing it. For the record I did not like it either. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 No data to give Doc. Just an opinion is all. I can say that several transfer outfits in Houston use to pre post their units in order for them to be closer to the facilities that they have contracts with. Consider this if you will, if someone was to take an ambulance and have it station in North Houston and a call comes in at the medical center. It is 17:30 your contract states that you will have a unit at the call location in 45 minutes or you could run the risk of loosing their business. You as a company owner could A. hope your crew are capable of driving fast enough through the rush hour traffic and make the trip in time or B. have them pre posted near the medical center so that when the call drops they simply drive three or four miles and take care of business. Witch option is used? I know someone could say why not get a station near the medical center and avoid staging? A good question to be sure, in answer what happens if your company cannot afford the rent at one such location? Do you as a company owner simply decide that the contracts are not worth having your crews staged because they may not like it? Even though running the calls is how the company generates income that is needed to pay the crews. Having done transfer work and now 911 only I can say that in the transfer side in the Houston area due to the traffic, distances, and other uncontrollable factors. SSM does indeed work. I have no DATA to prove this, just a few years of doing it. For the record I did not like it either. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 In a message dated 5/26/2005 2:52:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jpkimbrow@... writes: If ssm is a good thing, do any fire departments that you know of use it? Or cop shops? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2005 In a message dated 5/26/2005 2:52:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jpkimbrow@... writes: If ssm is a good thing, do any fire departments that you know of use it? Or cop shops? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
