GoldStar

April 14, 2005

Troy I am with you on the part of we all use the man power when it is needed.

Cross traing fireman to EMS is very helpful. You just don't know when you will

need them both. Good Luck in your city, Dave

Troy Irvine wrote:Just to let everyone know, PAFD responded

to almost 8000 calls last year, and probably less than 30% were NOT medical

related calls. The call volume is already there, so we don't need the city

service to boost numbers. If we do go with the proposal to do inner-city

transfers, there would be dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units

available. There is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance stating how many

units each service is to have dedicated for emergencies, but you can tell from

all the rollover calls that those numbers aren't there, whatever that magic

number is.

The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to cross-train the

members, so when they respond to fires and other fire-related matters, they

could be used for manpower, and we all know how important manpower is and the

lack of. Not to mention that's more members contributing to a bigger pension.

The key is to sell it to the city. We are starting to phase out the old-timers

that don't want to run med calls, and our dept. is getting younger and more

motivated. Now all we need is a sympathetic council.....

Troy Irvine

Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic

Port Arthur Fire Department

April 14, 2005

Troy I am with you on the part of we all use the man power when it is needed.

Cross traing fireman to EMS is very helpful. You just don't know when you will

need them both. Good Luck in your city, Dave

Troy Irvine wrote:Just to let everyone know, PAFD responded

to almost 8000 calls last year, and probably less than 30% were NOT medical

related calls. The call volume is already there, so we don't need the city

service to boost numbers. If we do go with the proposal to do inner-city

transfers, there would be dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units

available. There is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance stating how many

units each service is to have dedicated for emergencies, but you can tell from

all the rollover calls that those numbers aren't there, whatever that magic

number is.

The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to cross-train the

members, so when they respond to fires and other fire-related matters, they

could be used for manpower, and we all know how important manpower is and the

lack of. Not to mention that's more members contributing to a bigger pension.

The key is to sell it to the city. We are starting to phase out the old-timers

that don't want to run med calls, and our dept. is getting younger and more

motivated. Now all we need is a sympathetic council.....

Troy Irvine

Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic

Port Arthur Fire Department

April 14, 2005

Troy I am with you on the part of we all use the man power when it is needed.

Cross traing fireman to EMS is very helpful. You just don't know when you will

need them both. Good Luck in your city, Dave

Troy Irvine wrote:Just to let everyone know, PAFD responded

to almost 8000 calls last year, and probably less than 30% were NOT medical

related calls. The call volume is already there, so we don't need the city

service to boost numbers. If we do go with the proposal to do inner-city

transfers, there would be dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units

available. There is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance stating how many

units each service is to have dedicated for emergencies, but you can tell from

all the rollover calls that those numbers aren't there, whatever that magic

number is.

The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to cross-train the

members, so when they respond to fires and other fire-related matters, they

could be used for manpower, and we all know how important manpower is and the

lack of. Not to mention that's more members contributing to a bigger pension.

The key is to sell it to the city. We are starting to phase out the old-timers

that don't want to run med calls, and our dept. is getting younger and more

motivated. Now all we need is a sympathetic council.....

Troy Irvine

Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic

Port Arthur Fire Department

April 14, 2005

Troy Irvine wrote:

> The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to

> cross-train the members, so when they respond to fires and other

> fire-related matters, they could be used for manpower,

In the scenario you paint cross training has potential benefit, yet the

facts do not support the argument. Maintaining dual certification

requires substantial time and resources. Often performance lags due to

the inability of the medic/FF to devote enough time or energy to

maintain excellence in either field.

Firefighting and pre-hospital medicine are diverging professions. To

continue the myth that the two should remain joined at the hip is a

disservice to both.

Best regards,

Larry

April 14, 2005

Troy Irvine wrote:

> The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to

> cross-train the members, so when they respond to fires and other

> fire-related matters, they could be used for manpower,

In the scenario you paint cross training has potential benefit, yet the

facts do not support the argument. Maintaining dual certification

requires substantial time and resources. Often performance lags due to

the inability of the medic/FF to devote enough time or energy to

maintain excellence in either field.

Firefighting and pre-hospital medicine are diverging professions. To

continue the myth that the two should remain joined at the hip is a

disservice to both.

Best regards,

Larry

April 14, 2005

Troy Irvine wrote:

> The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to

> cross-train the members, so when they respond to fires and other

> fire-related matters, they could be used for manpower,

In the scenario you paint cross training has potential benefit, yet the

facts do not support the argument. Maintaining dual certification

requires substantial time and resources. Often performance lags due to

the inability of the medic/FF to devote enough time or energy to

maintain excellence in either field.

Firefighting and pre-hospital medicine are diverging professions. To

continue the myth that the two should remain joined at the hip is a

disservice to both.

Best regards,

Larry

April 14, 2005

Gene,

I must say,not a finer word has ever been spoken.

Hoorah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- Lonnie Tarrant wrote:

> Well said Gene...I have spent 20+ years in this

> business and have personally experienced every word

> Gene wrote...If you have a different take or view I

> personally think that you DON " T have the experience

> or KNOWLEDGE to speak on the issue...I too came with

> " flame protection "

>

> Lonnie Tarrant LP

> NTCC

>

> Re: Goldstar

>

> In a message dated 4/13/05 21:18:45,

> rachfoote@... writes:

>

> >

> > I think the City would have dedicated 911 trucks

> and add transfer trucks

> > for

> > transfer only. There is nothing that say's a City

> cannot make out of town

> > transfers. Especially for guaranteed pay. That's

> how Houston AMR and

> > Goldstar became well rounded. I would think the

> taxpayors would appreciate

> > the

> > income, especially in lieu of tax money.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > but.... you also have to look at what privates

> will do for that money, will

> > a 911 service stay with a patient that is getting

> a 15 min. ct scan? will

> > they do a wait and return? what will that tax

> payer say when they tell them

> > that

> > half of your 911 trucks were on a transfer calls,

> and it took over 20Min's.

> > to get a unit in route to a MI patient?

> >

> If that happens your management's got crap for

> brains. The principles are

> the same whether you're a 911 service or an " all

> calls " service. If you want

> to know how to do it, just take a look at East Texas

> EMS or Champion EMS, two

> premier 911/transfer services. This is not rocket

> science.

>

> It does require a mindset that has graduated from

> the 911 only paradigm.

>

> Incidentally, in the latest Emergency Medical

> Services Magazine there's an

> excellent editorial piece about divorcing EMS from

> the fire service. The

> author makes a good argument that EMS and fire

> service DO NOT go well together, and

> that if we ever want to be seen as medical

> professionals we MUST divorce

> ourselves from the Fire Service. FD EMS sees

> itself as rescue. EMS in fact

> encompasses much more than rescue.

>

> Perhaps we should get away from the term " EMS " and

> begin to call ourselves

> " Pre-hospital Medical Service. " Most of what we do

> is not really emergency,

> and much of it is medicine, not trauma

>

> > most transfers will go out side the

> > serving area: would you like to see a HFD unit in

> Dallas dropping off at a

> > rehab Hospital with a patient from Memorial

> Hermann Hospital?

> >

> Why the hell not? Do the taxpayers a favor and

> generate some revenue.

> Give me one reason that a Houston FD ambulance

> shouldn't take a patient to Dallas

> to a rehap hospital? It's simply a matter of

> vehicle deployment and

> planning.

>

> > I have seen smaller

> > city's pull it off, but they have to work at it.

> >

> Yes, smaller cities pull it off, and they make it

> pay. If a small city can

> do it, why couldn't a large city do it better?

> Only because the managers

> have a mindset against it and they're intimidated by

> the firefighter's union

> which opposes that sort of service.

>

> It's pure balderdash that a large city cannot do

> transfers profitably. It's

> because they don't WANT to do them. But it's

> probably not very feasible for

> a FD based EMS system because the people who want to

> fight fires and do

> emergencies do not want to do transfers. That's

> why EMS ought to be divorced from

> the fire service.

>

> Folks who want to fight fires, do rescue, and that

> sort of thing ought to be

> able to do it. But it's pretty difficult to become

> an expert at those things

> while also becoming an expert in medical matters.

> Pre-hospital medicine is

> not compatible with fire service.

>

> Many will disagree with me, including some that I

> work closely with, but this

> is my take on it.

>

> Begin the flames. I've got my asbestos undies on.

>

> GG

>

> > and the two best Private

> > EMS providers for Houston AMR and Gold Star are

> well Rounded, we both have

> > high

> > standards, and both have medics that have 911

> experience we know how to get

> > inservice under 20 mins.

> >

> > wegandy1938@... wrote: I would venture to say

> that if the City took

> > over

> > all ambulance functions,

> > including transfers, it would improve its

> financial status considerably.

> > I

> > have never been able to understand why cities

> would give away the gravy,

> > which is

> > in transfers. If I were a taxpayer in a city

> that ran a " 911 only "

> > service

> > and allowed private services to take all the

> transfers, I would be

> > demanding

> > to know the rationale for doing that. About the

> only rationale I can

> > think

> > of

> > is that the 911 people simply don't like doing

> transfers because they are

> > not

> > " adrenalin producing. " But they are revenue

> producing.

> >

> > Am I wrong?

> >

> > GG

> >

> > E.(Gene) Gandy

> > POB 1651

> > Albany, TX 76430

> > wegandy1938@...

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > To visit your group on the web, go to:

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group//

> >

> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email

> to:

> > -unsubscribe

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the

> Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

April 14, 2005

Gene,

I must say,not a finer word has ever been spoken.

Hoorah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- Lonnie Tarrant wrote:

> Well said Gene...I have spent 20+ years in this

> business and have personally experienced every word

> Gene wrote...If you have a different take or view I

> personally think that you DON " T have the experience

> or KNOWLEDGE to speak on the issue...I too came with

> " flame protection "

>

> Lonnie Tarrant LP

> NTCC

>

> Re: Goldstar

>

> In a message dated 4/13/05 21:18:45,

> rachfoote@... writes:

>

> >

> > I think the City would have dedicated 911 trucks

> and add transfer trucks

> > for

> > transfer only. There is nothing that say's a City

> cannot make out of town

> > transfers. Especially for guaranteed pay. That's

> how Houston AMR and

> > Goldstar became well rounded. I would think the

> taxpayors would appreciate

> > the

> > income, especially in lieu of tax money.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > but.... you also have to look at what privates

> will do for that money, will

> > a 911 service stay with a patient that is getting

> a 15 min. ct scan? will

> > they do a wait and return? what will that tax

> payer say when they tell them

> > that

> > half of your 911 trucks were on a transfer calls,

> and it took over 20Min's.

> > to get a unit in route to a MI patient?

> >

> If that happens your management's got crap for

> brains. The principles are

> the same whether you're a 911 service or an " all

> calls " service. If you want

> to know how to do it, just take a look at East Texas

> EMS or Champion EMS, two

> premier 911/transfer services. This is not rocket

> science.

>

> It does require a mindset that has graduated from

> the 911 only paradigm.

>

> Incidentally, in the latest Emergency Medical

> Services Magazine there's an

> excellent editorial piece about divorcing EMS from

> the fire service. The

> author makes a good argument that EMS and fire

> service DO NOT go well together, and

> that if we ever want to be seen as medical

> professionals we MUST divorce

> ourselves from the Fire Service. FD EMS sees

> itself as rescue. EMS in fact

> encompasses much more than rescue.

>

> Perhaps we should get away from the term " EMS " and

> begin to call ourselves

> " Pre-hospital Medical Service. " Most of what we do

> is not really emergency,

> and much of it is medicine, not trauma

>

> > most transfers will go out side the

> > serving area: would you like to see a HFD unit in

> Dallas dropping off at a

> > rehab Hospital with a patient from Memorial

> Hermann Hospital?

> >

> Why the hell not? Do the taxpayers a favor and

> generate some revenue.

> Give me one reason that a Houston FD ambulance

> shouldn't take a patient to Dallas

> to a rehap hospital? It's simply a matter of

> vehicle deployment and

> planning.

>

> > I have seen smaller

> > city's pull it off, but they have to work at it.

> >

> Yes, smaller cities pull it off, and they make it

> pay. If a small city can

> do it, why couldn't a large city do it better?

> Only because the managers

> have a mindset against it and they're intimidated by

> the firefighter's union

> which opposes that sort of service.

>

> It's pure balderdash that a large city cannot do

> transfers profitably. It's

> because they don't WANT to do them. But it's

> probably not very feasible for

> a FD based EMS system because the people who want to

> fight fires and do

> emergencies do not want to do transfers. That's

> why EMS ought to be divorced from

> the fire service.

>

> Folks who want to fight fires, do rescue, and that

> sort of thing ought to be

> able to do it. But it's pretty difficult to become

> an expert at those things

> while also becoming an expert in medical matters.

> Pre-hospital medicine is

> not compatible with fire service.

>

> Many will disagree with me, including some that I

> work closely with, but this

> is my take on it.

>

> Begin the flames. I've got my asbestos undies on.

>

> GG

>

> > and the two best Private

> > EMS providers for Houston AMR and Gold Star are

> well Rounded, we both have

> > high

> > standards, and both have medics that have 911

> experience we know how to get

> > inservice under 20 mins.

> >

> > wegandy1938@... wrote: I would venture to say

> that if the City took

> > over

> > all ambulance functions,

> > including transfers, it would improve its

> financial status considerably.

> > I

> > have never been able to understand why cities

> would give away the gravy,

> > which is

> > in transfers. If I were a taxpayer in a city

> that ran a " 911 only "

> > service

> > and allowed private services to take all the

> transfers, I would be

> > demanding

> > to know the rationale for doing that. About the

> only rationale I can

> > think

> > of

> > is that the 911 people simply don't like doing

> transfers because they are

> > not

> > " adrenalin producing. " But they are revenue

> producing.

> >

> > Am I wrong?

> >

> > GG

> >

> > E.(Gene) Gandy

> > POB 1651

> > Albany, TX 76430

> > wegandy1938@...

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > To visit your group on the web, go to:

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group//

> >

> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email

> to:

> > -unsubscribe

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the

> Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

April 14, 2005

Gene,

I must say,not a finer word has ever been spoken.

Hoorah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- Lonnie Tarrant wrote:

> Well said Gene...I have spent 20+ years in this

> business and have personally experienced every word

> Gene wrote...If you have a different take or view I

> personally think that you DON " T have the experience

> or KNOWLEDGE to speak on the issue...I too came with

> " flame protection "

>

> Lonnie Tarrant LP

> NTCC

>

> Re: Goldstar

>

> In a message dated 4/13/05 21:18:45,

> rachfoote@... writes:

>

> >

> > I think the City would have dedicated 911 trucks

> and add transfer trucks

> > for

> > transfer only. There is nothing that say's a City

> cannot make out of town

> > transfers. Especially for guaranteed pay. That's

> how Houston AMR and

> > Goldstar became well rounded. I would think the

> taxpayors would appreciate

> > the

> > income, especially in lieu of tax money.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > but.... you also have to look at what privates

> will do for that money, will

> > a 911 service stay with a patient that is getting

> a 15 min. ct scan? will

> > they do a wait and return? what will that tax

> payer say when they tell them

> > that

> > half of your 911 trucks were on a transfer calls,

> and it took over 20Min's.

> > to get a unit in route to a MI patient?

> >

> If that happens your management's got crap for

> brains. The principles are

> the same whether you're a 911 service or an " all

> calls " service. If you want

> to know how to do it, just take a look at East Texas

> EMS or Champion EMS, two

> premier 911/transfer services. This is not rocket

> science.

>

> It does require a mindset that has graduated from

> the 911 only paradigm.

>

> Incidentally, in the latest Emergency Medical

> Services Magazine there's an

> excellent editorial piece about divorcing EMS from

> the fire service. The

> author makes a good argument that EMS and fire

> service DO NOT go well together, and

> that if we ever want to be seen as medical

> professionals we MUST divorce

> ourselves from the Fire Service. FD EMS sees

> itself as rescue. EMS in fact

> encompasses much more than rescue.

>

> Perhaps we should get away from the term " EMS " and

> begin to call ourselves

> " Pre-hospital Medical Service. " Most of what we do

> is not really emergency,

> and much of it is medicine, not trauma

>

> > most transfers will go out side the

> > serving area: would you like to see a HFD unit in

> Dallas dropping off at a

> > rehab Hospital with a patient from Memorial

> Hermann Hospital?

> >

> Why the hell not? Do the taxpayers a favor and

> generate some revenue.

> Give me one reason that a Houston FD ambulance

> shouldn't take a patient to Dallas

> to a rehap hospital? It's simply a matter of

> vehicle deployment and

> planning.

>

> > I have seen smaller

> > city's pull it off, but they have to work at it.

> >

> Yes, smaller cities pull it off, and they make it

> pay. If a small city can

> do it, why couldn't a large city do it better?

> Only because the managers

> have a mindset against it and they're intimidated by

> the firefighter's union

> which opposes that sort of service.

>

> It's pure balderdash that a large city cannot do

> transfers profitably. It's

> because they don't WANT to do them. But it's

> probably not very feasible for

> a FD based EMS system because the people who want to

> fight fires and do

> emergencies do not want to do transfers. That's

> why EMS ought to be divorced from

> the fire service.

>

> Folks who want to fight fires, do rescue, and that

> sort of thing ought to be

> able to do it. But it's pretty difficult to become

> an expert at those things

> while also becoming an expert in medical matters.

> Pre-hospital medicine is

> not compatible with fire service.

>

> Many will disagree with me, including some that I

> work closely with, but this

> is my take on it.

>

> Begin the flames. I've got my asbestos undies on.

>

> GG

>

> > and the two best Private

> > EMS providers for Houston AMR and Gold Star are

> well Rounded, we both have

> > high

> > standards, and both have medics that have 911

> experience we know how to get

> > inservice under 20 mins.

> >

> > wegandy1938@... wrote: I would venture to say

> that if the City took

> > over

> > all ambulance functions,

> > including transfers, it would improve its

> financial status considerably.

> > I

> > have never been able to understand why cities

> would give away the gravy,

> > which is

> > in transfers. If I were a taxpayer in a city

> that ran a " 911 only "

> > service

> > and allowed private services to take all the

> transfers, I would be

> > demanding

> > to know the rationale for doing that. About the

> only rationale I can

> > think

> > of

> > is that the 911 people simply don't like doing

> transfers because they are

> > not

> > " adrenalin producing. " But they are revenue

> producing.

> >

> > Am I wrong?

> >

> > GG

> >

> > E.(Gene) Gandy

> > POB 1651

> > Albany, TX 76430

> > wegandy1938@...

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > To visit your group on the web, go to:

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group//

> >

> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email

> to:

> > -unsubscribe

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the

> Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

April 14, 2005

What says is true. I too am from Hidalgo

County. I used to work for Med-Care and Valley. Both

are good companies. In fact Valley has the best pay

rate over Med-Care and STEC. However each presents

its own downsides. One overworks their medics with

911 and transfers and ALOT of posting and little

sleep. The other pays more for less work, although I

hear it is getting busier. And wee, the other really

over works their medics, but it has WAY better

benefits. The problem with two of them is that both

used to be mainly 911. Now that they know that

transfers bring in the money they are trying to do ALL

that they can, therefore compromising the 911 calls.

I know for a fact because both constantly have fire

departments or supervisors responding to 911 calls

because no units are available. I know this by

listening to their traffic on a scanner. Now ALot of

experienced medics are working for the transfer

companies for the higher pay. How do I know you ask?

Because all three 911 companies you named have a very

high turnover rate that even directors and training

officers are staffing the 911 trucks. That is how we

know sir. chose the better tract-education. I

just found out today that Nextel pays more per hour

and has better benefits than all those companies.

That is so sad!!! People's lives are in our hands and

yet a person with no schooling makes more. And they

do not have the responsibilty we have. Something

needs to change people. Just my .02.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- firedawg_2445 wrote:

>

> It is funny how this discussion started. Look at the

> Subject:

> Goldstar.

> One of the Operations managers stated that FEDs were

> only looking

> for information on 150 pts. But think about it if

> Goldstar does

> non-emergency transports like dialysis.

> one pt goes 3 times a week that is 6 trips.

> 6 x 52 weeks x a possible 150 pts. you do the math.

> Yes hidalgo county does have a real problem with the

> number of

> ambulance companies that are in operation and that

> are pending

> approval.

> It strange how someone starts an ambulance service

> with one ambulance

> and three months later they have 4 ambulances, I

> know reimbursment is

> not that good.

> you stated that,

> " You see, I am from Hidalgo County, and most

> experienced medics will

> work for companies that do just transfers and earn

> more money per

> hour than the private " 911 companies " that do both

> and be overworked. "

>

> How do you know that MOST experienced medics work

> for tranfer

> companies, Have you done a survey? What facts do you

> have to back

> your statement?

> I know that STEC, South-Star, MedCare, and Valley

> EMS have alot of

> experienced medics and contiued to gain experience

> every day.

> I agree with you Weslaco has an excellent FIRE-EMS

> system.

> But how much do you really know about all the other

> 35 EMS services

> in this small county.

>

> My humble opinion

>

> >

> > >

> > > I'll agree with Gene. Some of us are in the

> business

> > > just for the

> > > adrenalin. Personally, I could not even work for

> a

> > > transfer service.

> > > The 911 mindset is different from the transfer

> > > mindset. Remember,

> > > those chest pain little old ladies need to be

> > > handled with kid gloves,

> > > which the privates specialize in.

> > > Why do cities want to take away the revenues

> from

> > > privates? Actually,

> > > in some cities, the city service is so bad, I

> would

> > > prefer to call the

> > > private service if I had an emergency.

> > >

> > > Also, all EMT's do not have the desire or

> ability to

> > > become firemen.

> > > Some of us would just not pass the fitness test.

> > > This would also

> > > restrict few employment opportunities further.

> > >

> > > Let healthy competition benefit cities, people

> in

> > > the EMS business and

> > > patients equally.

> > >

> > > Shahla

> > >

> > > > If that happens your management's got crap for

> > > brains. The

> > > principles are

> > > > the same whether you're a 911 service or an

> " all

> > > calls " service.

> > > If you want

> > > > to know how to do it, just take a look at East

> > > Texas EMS or Champion

> > > EMS, two

> > > > premier 911/transfer services. This is not

> > > rocket science.

> > > >

> > > > It does require a mindset that has graduated

> from

> > > the 911 only

> > > paradigm.

> > > >

> > > > Incidentally, in the latest Emergency Medical

> > > Services Magazine

> > > there's an

> > > > excellent editorial piece about divorcing EMS

> from

> > > the fire service.

> > > The

> > > > author makes a good argument that EMS and fire

> > > service DO NOT go

> > > well together, and

> > > > that if we ever want to be seen as medical

> > > professionals we MUST

> > > divorce

> > > > ourselves from the Fire Service. FD EMS sees

> > > itself as rescue.

> > > EMS in fact

> > > > encompasses much more than rescue.

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps we should get away from the term " EMS "

> and

> > > begin to call

> > > ourselves

> > > > " Pre-hospital Medical Service. " Most of what

> we

> > > do is not really

> > > emergency,

> > > > and much of it is medicine, not trauma

> > > >

> > > > > most transfers will go out side the

> > > > > serving area: would you like to see a HFD

> unit

> > > in Dallas dropping

> > > off at a

> > > > > rehab Hospital with a patient from Memorial

> > > Hermann Hospital?

> > > > >

> > > > Why the hell not? Do the taxpayers a favor

> and

> > > generate some

> > > revenue.

> > > > Give me one reason that a Houston FD ambulance

> > > shouldn't take a

> > > patient to Dallas

> > > > to a rehap hospital? It's simply a matter of

> > > vehicle deployment and

> > > > planning.

> > > >

> > > > > I have seen smaller

> > > > > city's pull it off, but they have to work at

> it.

> > >

> > > > >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

April 14, 2005

What says is true. I too am from Hidalgo

County. I used to work for Med-Care and Valley. Both

are good companies. In fact Valley has the best pay

rate over Med-Care and STEC. However each presents

its own downsides. One overworks their medics with

911 and transfers and ALOT of posting and little

sleep. The other pays more for less work, although I

hear it is getting busier. And wee, the other really

over works their medics, but it has WAY better

benefits. The problem with two of them is that both

used to be mainly 911. Now that they know that

transfers bring in the money they are trying to do ALL

that they can, therefore compromising the 911 calls.

I know for a fact because both constantly have fire

departments or supervisors responding to 911 calls

because no units are available. I know this by

listening to their traffic on a scanner. Now ALot of

experienced medics are working for the transfer

companies for the higher pay. How do I know you ask?

Because all three 911 companies you named have a very

high turnover rate that even directors and training

officers are staffing the 911 trucks. That is how we

know sir. chose the better tract-education. I

just found out today that Nextel pays more per hour

and has better benefits than all those companies.

That is so sad!!! People's lives are in our hands and

yet a person with no schooling makes more. And they

do not have the responsibilty we have. Something

needs to change people. Just my .02.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- firedawg_2445 wrote:

>

> It is funny how this discussion started. Look at the

> Subject:

> Goldstar.

> One of the Operations managers stated that FEDs were

> only looking

> for information on 150 pts. But think about it if

> Goldstar does

> non-emergency transports like dialysis.

> one pt goes 3 times a week that is 6 trips.

> 6 x 52 weeks x a possible 150 pts. you do the math.

> Yes hidalgo county does have a real problem with the

> number of

> ambulance companies that are in operation and that

> are pending

> approval.

> It strange how someone starts an ambulance service

> with one ambulance

> and three months later they have 4 ambulances, I

> know reimbursment is

> not that good.

> you stated that,

> " You see, I am from Hidalgo County, and most

> experienced medics will

> work for companies that do just transfers and earn

> more money per

> hour than the private " 911 companies " that do both

> and be overworked. "

>

> How do you know that MOST experienced medics work

> for tranfer

> companies, Have you done a survey? What facts do you

> have to back

> your statement?

> I know that STEC, South-Star, MedCare, and Valley

> EMS have alot of

> experienced medics and contiued to gain experience

> every day.

> I agree with you Weslaco has an excellent FIRE-EMS

> system.

> But how much do you really know about all the other

> 35 EMS services

> in this small county.

>

> My humble opinion

>

> >

> > >

> > > I'll agree with Gene. Some of us are in the

> business

> > > just for the

> > > adrenalin. Personally, I could not even work for

> a

> > > transfer service.

> > > The 911 mindset is different from the transfer

> > > mindset. Remember,

> > > those chest pain little old ladies need to be

> > > handled with kid gloves,

> > > which the privates specialize in.

> > > Why do cities want to take away the revenues

> from

> > > privates? Actually,

> > > in some cities, the city service is so bad, I

> would

> > > prefer to call the

> > > private service if I had an emergency.

> > >

> > > Also, all EMT's do not have the desire or

> ability to

> > > become firemen.

> > > Some of us would just not pass the fitness test.

> > > This would also

> > > restrict few employment opportunities further.

> > >

> > > Let healthy competition benefit cities, people

> in

> > > the EMS business and

> > > patients equally.

> > >

> > > Shahla

> > >

> > > > If that happens your management's got crap for

> > > brains. The

> > > principles are

> > > > the same whether you're a 911 service or an

> " all

> > > calls " service.

> > > If you want

> > > > to know how to do it, just take a look at East

> > > Texas EMS or Champion

> > > EMS, two

> > > > premier 911/transfer services. This is not

> > > rocket science.

> > > >

> > > > It does require a mindset that has graduated

> from

> > > the 911 only

> > > paradigm.

> > > >

> > > > Incidentally, in the latest Emergency Medical

> > > Services Magazine

> > > there's an

> > > > excellent editorial piece about divorcing EMS

> from

> > > the fire service.

> > > The

> > > > author makes a good argument that EMS and fire

> > > service DO NOT go

> > > well together, and

> > > > that if we ever want to be seen as medical

> > > professionals we MUST

> > > divorce

> > > > ourselves from the Fire Service. FD EMS sees

> > > itself as rescue.

> > > EMS in fact

> > > > encompasses much more than rescue.

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps we should get away from the term " EMS "

> and

> > > begin to call

> > > ourselves

> > > > " Pre-hospital Medical Service. " Most of what

> we

> > > do is not really

> > > emergency,

> > > > and much of it is medicine, not trauma

> > > >

> > > > > most transfers will go out side the

> > > > > serving area: would you like to see a HFD

> unit

> > > in Dallas dropping

> > > off at a

> > > > > rehab Hospital with a patient from Memorial

> > > Hermann Hospital?

> > > > >

> > > > Why the hell not? Do the taxpayers a favor

> and

> > > generate some

> > > revenue.

> > > > Give me one reason that a Houston FD ambulance

> > > shouldn't take a

> > > patient to Dallas

> > > > to a rehap hospital? It's simply a matter of

> > > vehicle deployment and

> > > > planning.

> > > >

> > > > > I have seen smaller

> > > > > city's pull it off, but they have to work at

> it.

> > >

> > > > >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

April 14, 2005

What says is true. I too am from Hidalgo

County. I used to work for Med-Care and Valley. Both

are good companies. In fact Valley has the best pay

rate over Med-Care and STEC. However each presents

its own downsides. One overworks their medics with

911 and transfers and ALOT of posting and little

sleep. The other pays more for less work, although I

hear it is getting busier. And wee, the other really

over works their medics, but it has WAY better

benefits. The problem with two of them is that both

used to be mainly 911. Now that they know that

transfers bring in the money they are trying to do ALL

that they can, therefore compromising the 911 calls.

I know for a fact because both constantly have fire

departments or supervisors responding to 911 calls

because no units are available. I know this by

listening to their traffic on a scanner. Now ALot of

experienced medics are working for the transfer

companies for the higher pay. How do I know you ask?

Because all three 911 companies you named have a very

high turnover rate that even directors and training

officers are staffing the 911 trucks. That is how we

know sir. chose the better tract-education. I

just found out today that Nextel pays more per hour

and has better benefits than all those companies.

That is so sad!!! People's lives are in our hands and

yet a person with no schooling makes more. And they

do not have the responsibilty we have. Something

needs to change people. Just my .02.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- firedawg_2445 wrote:

>

> It is funny how this discussion started. Look at the

> Subject:

> Goldstar.

> One of the Operations managers stated that FEDs were

> only looking

> for information on 150 pts. But think about it if

> Goldstar does

> non-emergency transports like dialysis.

> one pt goes 3 times a week that is 6 trips.

> 6 x 52 weeks x a possible 150 pts. you do the math.

> Yes hidalgo county does have a real problem with the

> number of

> ambulance companies that are in operation and that

> are pending

> approval.

> It strange how someone starts an ambulance service

> with one ambulance

> and three months later they have 4 ambulances, I

> know reimbursment is

> not that good.

> you stated that,

> " You see, I am from Hidalgo County, and most

> experienced medics will

> work for companies that do just transfers and earn

> more money per

> hour than the private " 911 companies " that do both

> and be overworked. "

>

> How do you know that MOST experienced medics work

> for tranfer

> companies, Have you done a survey? What facts do you

> have to back

> your statement?

> I know that STEC, South-Star, MedCare, and Valley

> EMS have alot of

> experienced medics and contiued to gain experience

> every day.

> I agree with you Weslaco has an excellent FIRE-EMS

> system.

> But how much do you really know about all the other

> 35 EMS services

> in this small county.

>

> My humble opinion

>

> >

> > >

> > > I'll agree with Gene. Some of us are in the

> business

> > > just for the

> > > adrenalin. Personally, I could not even work for

> a

> > > transfer service.

> > > The 911 mindset is different from the transfer

> > > mindset. Remember,

> > > those chest pain little old ladies need to be

> > > handled with kid gloves,

> > > which the privates specialize in.

> > > Why do cities want to take away the revenues

> from

> > > privates? Actually,

> > > in some cities, the city service is so bad, I

> would

> > > prefer to call the

> > > private service if I had an emergency.

> > >

> > > Also, all EMT's do not have the desire or

> ability to

> > > become firemen.

> > > Some of us would just not pass the fitness test.

> > > This would also

> > > restrict few employment opportunities further.

> > >

> > > Let healthy competition benefit cities, people

> in

> > > the EMS business and

> > > patients equally.

> > >

> > > Shahla

> > >

> > > > If that happens your management's got crap for

> > > brains. The

> > > principles are

> > > > the same whether you're a 911 service or an

> " all

> > > calls " service.

> > > If you want

> > > > to know how to do it, just take a look at East

> > > Texas EMS or Champion

> > > EMS, two

> > > > premier 911/transfer services. This is not

> > > rocket science.

> > > >

> > > > It does require a mindset that has graduated

> from

> > > the 911 only

> > > paradigm.

> > > >

> > > > Incidentally, in the latest Emergency Medical

> > > Services Magazine

> > > there's an

> > > > excellent editorial piece about divorcing EMS

> from

> > > the fire service.

> > > The

> > > > author makes a good argument that EMS and fire

> > > service DO NOT go

> > > well together, and

> > > > that if we ever want to be seen as medical

> > > professionals we MUST

> > > divorce

> > > > ourselves from the Fire Service. FD EMS sees

> > > itself as rescue.

> > > EMS in fact

> > > > encompasses much more than rescue.

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps we should get away from the term " EMS "

> and

> > > begin to call

> > > ourselves

> > > > " Pre-hospital Medical Service. " Most of what

> we

> > > do is not really

> > > emergency,

> > > > and much of it is medicine, not trauma

> > > >

> > > > > most transfers will go out side the

> > > > > serving area: would you like to see a HFD

> unit

> > > in Dallas dropping

> > > off at a

> > > > > rehab Hospital with a patient from Memorial

> > > Hermann Hospital?

> > > > >

> > > > Why the hell not? Do the taxpayers a favor

> and

> > > generate some

> > > revenue.

> > > > Give me one reason that a Houston FD ambulance

> > > shouldn't take a

> > > patient to Dallas

> > > > to a rehap hospital? It's simply a matter of

> > > vehicle deployment and

> > > > planning.

> > > >

> > > > > I have seen smaller

> > > > > city's pull it off, but they have to work at

> it.

> > >

> > > > >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

April 14, 2005

I have been reading little " tid-bits " of what everyone has been

saying. I must say that I agree with Gene. I would also like to add

someting, just food for thought you might say.

Do you think that EMS divorcing fire (i.e. Houston FD) would be a

good thing? Do you think that pt. care would go up? I think so. I

think that people who want to do EMS should do EMS, and vice versa

for fire. So a ff might not wnat to do a transfer, big deal, there

have been worse tragedies in this world, like Gene said, transfers

are the paying " gigs " . Why whouldn't someone want to do it? It only

makes sense. In addition to that, I think that it would cut down on

the number of " mom and pop " EMS services that seem to plauge

Houston. I am disgusted when I see some of the " less that

professional " attitudes and look that some of these services have. I

am sometime ashame to actualy admit what I do, in fear that the

person I'm talking to might have a run in with the " bad " service,

therefore think bad upon the profession that I love.

I am not trying to make people mad, or disrespect HFD. They are a

hard working group of people, and I think that they are completley

underpaid.

I just think that if EMS was to " divorce " fd's then pt care would go

up. EMT's would be able to do what they love and become more

involved and want to learn more. Not to mention the other day at

Mem. Hermann, while a nurse was explaining something, (I think it

was the differences between a certain type of insect bite), the HFD

guy stated " I don't know, I'm just an EMT. " With that kind

of " enthusiastic " attitude about EMS, why wouldn't FD's, (some, not

all) wnat to release EMS? IF they don't like it, don't do it.

Everyone one, for the most part, would win. Pt's included.

Thats my $0.02

Just to let everyone know, PAFD

responded to almost 8000 calls last year, and probably less than 30%

were NOT medical related calls. The call volume is already there,

so we don't need the city service to boost numbers. If we do go with

the proposal to do inner-city transfers, there would be

dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units available. There

is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance stating how many

units each service is to have dedicated for emergencies, but you can

tell from all the rollover calls that those numbers aren't there,

whatever that magic number is.

>

> The other good things about fire based EMS is the chance to cross-

train the members, so when they respond to fires and other fire-

related matters, they could be used for manpower, and we all know

how important manpower is and the lack of. Not to mention that's

more members contributing to a bigger pension.

>

> The key is to sell it to the city. We are starting to phase out

the old-timers that don't want to run med calls, and our dept. is

getting younger and more motivated. Now all we need is a sympathetic

council.....

>

> Troy Irvine

> Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic

> Port Arthur Fire Department

>

April 14, 2005