Guest guest Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 If you look at departments such as D.F.D. or L.A.Co.F.D.,how many lawsuits have been filed due to poor care ? I have worked in both cities,and I have seen some of the worst Pre-Hospital Care ever. I am not saying that all Fire Based EMS Services fall in to this. But Lets also look at Primary Emergency Ambulance Services (Austin, Montgomery County)With those systems,you have some of the finest E.M.S. talent in the world. I am a huge advocate of spliting E.M.S. and Fire. Yes, ALS Engines or even I.L.S. Engines (Arlington) work and should be used,but if you remove the ambulances, the folks on those units could be used to staff another Engine Company or bring staffing levels up to par.Plus the budgets of these Departments could be better utilized such as,instead of replacing Ambulances,departments could use those monies to upgrade stations,install exaust evacuation systems,ect.And if the cities started to run Transfers,there would be a new revenue source to fund a stand alone service,providing there are enough transfers.And they could also run wheelchair vans (San Diego Medical Enterprises does)These are serious points to ponder. Now if the AMAA in Fort Worth would pull there heads out and take over Med Star.............. but thats a whole different Oprah. --- Wayne Edgin wrote: > Fire fighters should fight Fire EMS should be EMS, > not fire fighters. You cant master two professions > and > provide adaquate service to the public. There are > several F.F that I know that have an EMS CERT just > because they wanted to fight fires. > --- txbasic wrote: > > > > > > I have been reading little " tid-bits " of what > > everyone has been > > saying. I must say that I agree with Gene. I would > > also like to add > > someting, just food for thought you might say. > > > > Do you think that EMS divorcing fire (i.e. Houston > > FD) would be a > > good thing? Do you think that pt. care would go > up? > > I think so. I > > think that people who want to do EMS should do > EMS, > > and vice versa > > for fire. So a ff might not wnat to do a transfer, > > big deal, there > > have been worse tragedies in this world, like Gene > > said, transfers > > are the paying " gigs " . Why whouldn't someone want > to > > do it? It only > > makes sense. In addition to that, I think that it > > would cut down on > > the number of " mom and pop " EMS services that seem > > to plauge > > Houston. I am disgusted when I see some of the > " less > > that > > professional " attitudes and look that some of > these > > services have. I > > am sometime ashame to actualy admit what I do, in > > fear that the > > person I'm talking to might have a run in with the > > " bad " service, > > therefore think bad upon the profession that I > love. > > > > I am not trying to make people mad, or disrespect > > HFD. They are a > > hard working group of people, and I think that > they > > are completley > > underpaid. > > > > I just think that if EMS was to " divorce " fd's > then > > pt care would go > > up. EMT's would be able to do what they love and > > become more > > involved and want to learn more. Not to mention > the > > other day at > > Mem. Hermann, while a nurse was explaining > > something, (I think it > > was the differences between a certain type of > insect > > bite), the HFD > > guy stated " I don't know, I'm just an EMT. " With > > that kind > > of " enthusiastic " attitude about EMS, why wouldn't > > FD's, (some, not > > all) wnat to release EMS? IF they don't like it, > > don't do it. > > Everyone one, for the most part, would win. Pt's > > included. > > > > Thats my $0.02 > > > > Just to let > > everyone know, PAFD > > responded to almost 8000 calls last year, and > > probably less than 30% > > were NOT medical related calls. The call volume > is > > already there, > > so we don't need the city service to boost > numbers. > > If we do go with > > the proposal to do inner-city transfers, there > would > > be > > dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units > > available. There > > is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance > > stating how many > > units each service is to have dedicated for > > emergencies, but you can > > tell from all the rollover calls that those > numbers > > aren't there, > > whatever that magic number is. > > > > > > The other good things about fire based EMS is > the > > chance to cross- > > train the members, so when they respond to fires > and > > other fire- > > related matters, they could be used for manpower, > > and we all know > > how important manpower is and the lack of. Not to > > mention that's > > more members contributing to a bigger pension. > > > > > > The key is to sell it to the city. We are > starting > > to phase out > > the old-timers that don't want to run med calls, > and > > our dept. is > > getting younger and more motivated. Now all we > need > > is a sympathetic > > council..... > > > > > > Troy Irvine > > > Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic > > > Port Arthur Fire Department > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 If you look at departments such as D.F.D. or L.A.Co.F.D.,how many lawsuits have been filed due to poor care ? I have worked in both cities,and I have seen some of the worst Pre-Hospital Care ever. I am not saying that all Fire Based EMS Services fall in to this. But Lets also look at Primary Emergency Ambulance Services (Austin, Montgomery County)With those systems,you have some of the finest E.M.S. talent in the world. I am a huge advocate of spliting E.M.S. and Fire. Yes, ALS Engines or even I.L.S. Engines (Arlington) work and should be used,but if you remove the ambulances, the folks on those units could be used to staff another Engine Company or bring staffing levels up to par.Plus the budgets of these Departments could be better utilized such as,instead of replacing Ambulances,departments could use those monies to upgrade stations,install exaust evacuation systems,ect.And if the cities started to run Transfers,there would be a new revenue source to fund a stand alone service,providing there are enough transfers.And they could also run wheelchair vans (San Diego Medical Enterprises does)These are serious points to ponder. Now if the AMAA in Fort Worth would pull there heads out and take over Med Star.............. but thats a whole different Oprah. --- Wayne Edgin wrote: > Fire fighters should fight Fire EMS should be EMS, > not fire fighters. You cant master two professions > and > provide adaquate service to the public. There are > several F.F that I know that have an EMS CERT just > because they wanted to fight fires. > --- txbasic wrote: > > > > > > I have been reading little " tid-bits " of what > > everyone has been > > saying. I must say that I agree with Gene. I would > > also like to add > > someting, just food for thought you might say. > > > > Do you think that EMS divorcing fire (i.e. Houston > > FD) would be a > > good thing? Do you think that pt. care would go > up? > > I think so. I > > think that people who want to do EMS should do > EMS, > > and vice versa > > for fire. So a ff might not wnat to do a transfer, > > big deal, there > > have been worse tragedies in this world, like Gene > > said, transfers > > are the paying " gigs " . Why whouldn't someone want > to > > do it? It only > > makes sense. In addition to that, I think that it > > would cut down on > > the number of " mom and pop " EMS services that seem > > to plauge > > Houston. I am disgusted when I see some of the > " less > > that > > professional " attitudes and look that some of > these > > services have. I > > am sometime ashame to actualy admit what I do, in > > fear that the > > person I'm talking to might have a run in with the > > " bad " service, > > therefore think bad upon the profession that I > love. > > > > I am not trying to make people mad, or disrespect > > HFD. They are a > > hard working group of people, and I think that > they > > are completley > > underpaid. > > > > I just think that if EMS was to " divorce " fd's > then > > pt care would go > > up. EMT's would be able to do what they love and > > become more > > involved and want to learn more. Not to mention > the > > other day at > > Mem. Hermann, while a nurse was explaining > > something, (I think it > > was the differences between a certain type of > insect > > bite), the HFD > > guy stated " I don't know, I'm just an EMT. " With > > that kind > > of " enthusiastic " attitude about EMS, why wouldn't > > FD's, (some, not > > all) wnat to release EMS? IF they don't like it, > > don't do it. > > Everyone one, for the most part, would win. Pt's > > included. > > > > Thats my $0.02 > > > > Just to let > > everyone know, PAFD > > responded to almost 8000 calls last year, and > > probably less than 30% > > were NOT medical related calls. The call volume > is > > already there, > > so we don't need the city service to boost > numbers. > > If we do go with > > the proposal to do inner-city transfers, there > would > > be > > dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units > > available. There > > is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance > > stating how many > > units each service is to have dedicated for > > emergencies, but you can > > tell from all the rollover calls that those > numbers > > aren't there, > > whatever that magic number is. > > > > > > The other good things about fire based EMS is > the > > chance to cross- > > train the members, so when they respond to fires > and > > other fire- > > related matters, they could be used for manpower, > > and we all know > > how important manpower is and the lack of. Not to > > mention that's > > more members contributing to a bigger pension. > > > > > > The key is to sell it to the city. We are > starting > > to phase out > > the old-timers that don't want to run med calls, > and > > our dept. is > > getting younger and more motivated. Now all we > need > > is a sympathetic > > council..... > > > > > > Troy Irvine > > > Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic > > > Port Arthur Fire Department > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 well someone opened a can of worms and I feel drawn to JUMP in lol.. I personally think as long as we have private EMS services there will always be the need to make money, and therefore private EMS will always run a lower number of ambulances. This is not always bad but it has its moments, whereas a fire-based service may have more units they arent bound be collection fees or trying to renew contracts. And I do not think EMS should be fire-based in all situations just for one simple reason, but it reverts back to patient care. In a small city or community below 50000 people a fire-based system would work because it is alot easier to find a handful of medics crosstrained and these little FDS can be more picky with who they hire, where a bigger FD cannot always be so picky. A private ambulance will pull ambulances to " make money " with transfers or move trucks for coverage of other areas. This is a fact of life we deal with it. Now we move on to the bigger city, Like Houston or Dallas, these cities that run fire based systems are not totally bad but having this many paramedics crossed trained with the turn over rate has got to be a med control nightmare think about it..This cities may not run out of ambulances and get to calls really fast..but now you have a totally different problem, and I speak with knowledge of this, These medics are very limited in there patient care their call in orders are horrendous. So to fix this problem is there an answer?? Put a private ambulance in there run less boxes and make private medics run even more calls? And to face problems like Ft. Worth and have the private company not be able to put up enough trucks and make first responders wait up to 20 minutes for help?..So with bigger cities the whole " FIREMAN " thing does get people to fill these ambulances.. I really think we should do something like Canada and run one EMS <governly run> to cover everything like one big family kinda thing, or the only other option as I see it in 's world make everything third-city services but with this we are all dreaming. Well im not advocating anything but everyone here is downing one ambulance-system type over another but there are real issues with every service until people and hospitals as a whole RESPECT EMS then we will continue to have these problems.. my 2 cents. --- Wayne Edgin wrote: > Fire fighters should fight Fire EMS should be EMS, > not fire fighters. You cant master two professions > and > provide adaquate service to the public. There are > several F.F that I know that have an EMS CERT just > because they wanted to fight fires. > --- txbasic wrote: > > > > > > I have been reading little " tid-bits " of what > > everyone has been > > saying. I must say that I agree with Gene. I would > > also like to add > > someting, just food for thought you might say. > > > > Do you think that EMS divorcing fire (i.e. Houston > > FD) would be a > > good thing? Do you think that pt. care would go > up? > > I think so. I > > think that people who want to do EMS should do > EMS, > > and vice versa > > for fire. So a ff might not wnat to do a transfer, > > big deal, there > > have been worse tragedies in this world, like Gene > > said, transfers > > are the paying " gigs " . Why whouldn't someone want > to > > do it? It only > > makes sense. In addition to that, I think that it > > would cut down on > > the number of " mom and pop " EMS services that seem > > to plauge > > Houston. I am disgusted when I see some of the > " less > > that > > professional " attitudes and look that some of > these > > services have. I > > am sometime ashame to actualy admit what I do, in > > fear that the > > person I'm talking to might have a run in with the > > " bad " service, > > therefore think bad upon the profession that I > love. > > > > I am not trying to make people mad, or disrespect > > HFD. They are a > > hard working group of people, and I think that > they > > are completley > > underpaid. > > > > I just think that if EMS was to " divorce " fd's > then > > pt care would go > > up. EMT's would be able to do what they love and > > become more > > involved and want to learn more. Not to mention > the > > other day at > > Mem. Hermann, while a nurse was explaining > > something, (I think it > > was the differences between a certain type of > insect > > bite), the HFD > > guy stated " I don't know, I'm just an EMT. " With > > that kind > > of " enthusiastic " attitude about EMS, why wouldn't > > FD's, (some, not > > all) wnat to release EMS? IF they don't like it, > > don't do it. > > Everyone one, for the most part, would win. Pt's > > included. > > > > Thats my $0.02 > > > > Just to let > > everyone know, PAFD > > responded to almost 8000 calls last year, and > > probably less than 30% > > were NOT medical related calls. The call volume > is > > already there, > > so we don't need the city service to boost > numbers. > > If we do go with > > the proposal to do inner-city transfers, there > would > > be > > dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units > > available. There > > is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance > > stating how many > > units each service is to have dedicated for > > emergencies, but you can > > tell from all the rollover calls that those > numbers > > aren't there, > > whatever that magic number is. > > > > > > The other good things about fire based EMS is > the > > chance to cross- > > train the members, so when they respond to fires > and > > other fire- > > related matters, they could be used for manpower, > > and we all know > > how important manpower is and the lack of. Not to > > mention that's > > more members contributing to a bigger pension. > > > > > > The key is to sell it to the city. We are > starting > > to phase out > > the old-timers that don't want to run med calls, > and > > our dept. is > > getting younger and more motivated. Now all we > need > > is a sympathetic > > council..... > > > > > > Troy Irvine > > > Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic > > > Port Arthur Fire Department > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 well someone opened a can of worms and I feel drawn to JUMP in lol.. I personally think as long as we have private EMS services there will always be the need to make money, and therefore private EMS will always run a lower number of ambulances. This is not always bad but it has its moments, whereas a fire-based service may have more units they arent bound be collection fees or trying to renew contracts. And I do not think EMS should be fire-based in all situations just for one simple reason, but it reverts back to patient care. In a small city or community below 50000 people a fire-based system would work because it is alot easier to find a handful of medics crosstrained and these little FDS can be more picky with who they hire, where a bigger FD cannot always be so picky. A private ambulance will pull ambulances to " make money " with transfers or move trucks for coverage of other areas. This is a fact of life we deal with it. Now we move on to the bigger city, Like Houston or Dallas, these cities that run fire based systems are not totally bad but having this many paramedics crossed trained with the turn over rate has got to be a med control nightmare think about it..This cities may not run out of ambulances and get to calls really fast..but now you have a totally different problem, and I speak with knowledge of this, These medics are very limited in there patient care their call in orders are horrendous. So to fix this problem is there an answer?? Put a private ambulance in there run less boxes and make private medics run even more calls? And to face problems like Ft. Worth and have the private company not be able to put up enough trucks and make first responders wait up to 20 minutes for help?..So with bigger cities the whole " FIREMAN " thing does get people to fill these ambulances.. I really think we should do something like Canada and run one EMS <governly run> to cover everything like one big family kinda thing, or the only other option as I see it in 's world make everything third-city services but with this we are all dreaming. Well im not advocating anything but everyone here is downing one ambulance-system type over another but there are real issues with every service until people and hospitals as a whole RESPECT EMS then we will continue to have these problems.. my 2 cents. --- Wayne Edgin wrote: > Fire fighters should fight Fire EMS should be EMS, > not fire fighters. You cant master two professions > and > provide adaquate service to the public. There are > several F.F that I know that have an EMS CERT just > because they wanted to fight fires. > --- txbasic wrote: > > > > > > I have been reading little " tid-bits " of what > > everyone has been > > saying. I must say that I agree with Gene. I would > > also like to add > > someting, just food for thought you might say. > > > > Do you think that EMS divorcing fire (i.e. Houston > > FD) would be a > > good thing? Do you think that pt. care would go > up? > > I think so. I > > think that people who want to do EMS should do > EMS, > > and vice versa > > for fire. So a ff might not wnat to do a transfer, > > big deal, there > > have been worse tragedies in this world, like Gene > > said, transfers > > are the paying " gigs " . Why whouldn't someone want > to > > do it? It only > > makes sense. In addition to that, I think that it > > would cut down on > > the number of " mom and pop " EMS services that seem > > to plauge > > Houston. I am disgusted when I see some of the > " less > > that > > professional " attitudes and look that some of > these > > services have. I > > am sometime ashame to actualy admit what I do, in > > fear that the > > person I'm talking to might have a run in with the > > " bad " service, > > therefore think bad upon the profession that I > love. > > > > I am not trying to make people mad, or disrespect > > HFD. They are a > > hard working group of people, and I think that > they > > are completley > > underpaid. > > > > I just think that if EMS was to " divorce " fd's > then > > pt care would go > > up. EMT's would be able to do what they love and > > become more > > involved and want to learn more. Not to mention > the > > other day at > > Mem. Hermann, while a nurse was explaining > > something, (I think it > > was the differences between a certain type of > insect > > bite), the HFD > > guy stated " I don't know, I'm just an EMT. " With > > that kind > > of " enthusiastic " attitude about EMS, why wouldn't > > FD's, (some, not > > all) wnat to release EMS? IF they don't like it, > > don't do it. > > Everyone one, for the most part, would win. Pt's > > included. > > > > Thats my $0.02 > > > > Just to let > > everyone know, PAFD > > responded to almost 8000 calls last year, and > > probably less than 30% > > were NOT medical related calls. The call volume > is > > already there, > > so we don't need the city service to boost > numbers. > > If we do go with > > the proposal to do inner-city transfers, there > would > > be > > dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units > > available. There > > is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance > > stating how many > > units each service is to have dedicated for > > emergencies, but you can > > tell from all the rollover calls that those > numbers > > aren't there, > > whatever that magic number is. > > > > > > The other good things about fire based EMS is > the > > chance to cross- > > train the members, so when they respond to fires > and > > other fire- > > related matters, they could be used for manpower, > > and we all know > > how important manpower is and the lack of. Not to > > mention that's > > more members contributing to a bigger pension. > > > > > > The key is to sell it to the city. We are > starting > > to phase out > > the old-timers that don't want to run med calls, > and > > our dept. is > > getting younger and more motivated. Now all we > need > > is a sympathetic > > council..... > > > > > > Troy Irvine > > > Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic > > > Port Arthur Fire Department > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 well someone opened a can of worms and I feel drawn to JUMP in lol.. I personally think as long as we have private EMS services there will always be the need to make money, and therefore private EMS will always run a lower number of ambulances. This is not always bad but it has its moments, whereas a fire-based service may have more units they arent bound be collection fees or trying to renew contracts. And I do not think EMS should be fire-based in all situations just for one simple reason, but it reverts back to patient care. In a small city or community below 50000 people a fire-based system would work because it is alot easier to find a handful of medics crosstrained and these little FDS can be more picky with who they hire, where a bigger FD cannot always be so picky. A private ambulance will pull ambulances to " make money " with transfers or move trucks for coverage of other areas. This is a fact of life we deal with it. Now we move on to the bigger city, Like Houston or Dallas, these cities that run fire based systems are not totally bad but having this many paramedics crossed trained with the turn over rate has got to be a med control nightmare think about it..This cities may not run out of ambulances and get to calls really fast..but now you have a totally different problem, and I speak with knowledge of this, These medics are very limited in there patient care their call in orders are horrendous. So to fix this problem is there an answer?? Put a private ambulance in there run less boxes and make private medics run even more calls? And to face problems like Ft. Worth and have the private company not be able to put up enough trucks and make first responders wait up to 20 minutes for help?..So with bigger cities the whole " FIREMAN " thing does get people to fill these ambulances.. I really think we should do something like Canada and run one EMS <governly run> to cover everything like one big family kinda thing, or the only other option as I see it in 's world make everything third-city services but with this we are all dreaming. Well im not advocating anything but everyone here is downing one ambulance-system type over another but there are real issues with every service until people and hospitals as a whole RESPECT EMS then we will continue to have these problems.. my 2 cents. --- Wayne Edgin wrote: > Fire fighters should fight Fire EMS should be EMS, > not fire fighters. You cant master two professions > and > provide adaquate service to the public. There are > several F.F that I know that have an EMS CERT just > because they wanted to fight fires. > --- txbasic wrote: > > > > > > I have been reading little " tid-bits " of what > > everyone has been > > saying. I must say that I agree with Gene. I would > > also like to add > > someting, just food for thought you might say. > > > > Do you think that EMS divorcing fire (i.e. Houston > > FD) would be a > > good thing? Do you think that pt. care would go > up? > > I think so. I > > think that people who want to do EMS should do > EMS, > > and vice versa > > for fire. So a ff might not wnat to do a transfer, > > big deal, there > > have been worse tragedies in this world, like Gene > > said, transfers > > are the paying " gigs " . Why whouldn't someone want > to > > do it? It only > > makes sense. In addition to that, I think that it > > would cut down on > > the number of " mom and pop " EMS services that seem > > to plauge > > Houston. I am disgusted when I see some of the > " less > > that > > professional " attitudes and look that some of > these > > services have. I > > am sometime ashame to actualy admit what I do, in > > fear that the > > person I'm talking to might have a run in with the > > " bad " service, > > therefore think bad upon the profession that I > love. > > > > I am not trying to make people mad, or disrespect > > HFD. They are a > > hard working group of people, and I think that > they > > are completley > > underpaid. > > > > I just think that if EMS was to " divorce " fd's > then > > pt care would go > > up. EMT's would be able to do what they love and > > become more > > involved and want to learn more. Not to mention > the > > other day at > > Mem. Hermann, while a nurse was explaining > > something, (I think it > > was the differences between a certain type of > insect > > bite), the HFD > > guy stated " I don't know, I'm just an EMT. " With > > that kind > > of " enthusiastic " attitude about EMS, why wouldn't > > FD's, (some, not > > all) wnat to release EMS? IF they don't like it, > > don't do it. > > Everyone one, for the most part, would win. Pt's > > included. > > > > Thats my $0.02 > > > > Just to let > > everyone know, PAFD > > responded to almost 8000 calls last year, and > > probably less than 30% > > were NOT medical related calls. The call volume > is > > already there, > > so we don't need the city service to boost > numbers. > > If we do go with > > the proposal to do inner-city transfers, there > would > > be > > dedicated " transfer trucks " to keep the 911 units > > available. There > > is supposed to be some mythical city ordinance > > stating how many > > units each service is to have dedicated for > > emergencies, but you can > > tell from all the rollover calls that those > numbers > > aren't there, > > whatever that magic number is. > > > > > > The other good things about fire based EMS is > the > > chance to cross- > > train the members, so when they respond to fires > and > > other fire- > > related matters, they could be used for manpower, > > and we all know > > how important manpower is and the lack of. Not to > > mention that's > > more members contributing to a bigger pension. > > > > > > The key is to sell it to the city. We are > starting > > to phase out > > the old-timers that don't want to run med calls, > and > > our dept. is > > getting younger and more motivated. Now all we > need > > is a sympathetic > > council..... > > > > > > Troy Irvine > > > Firefighter/Tactical Paramedic > > > Port Arthur Fire Department > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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