RE: Drip Medications

[Guest guest]

Not to start the whole EMS vs. RN thing, but the key words here

are " who happens to be an RN " . RN's do have thier hands tied as to

things they can and can't do. It is a bit different as a medic in a

rig.

> I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN;

that it is

> against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine, etc..

> She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is

this

> happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

> (PETSAR)

> Office

> FAX

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not to start the whole EMS vs. RN thing, but the key words here

are " who happens to be an RN " . RN's do have thier hands tied as to

things they can and can't do. It is a bit different as a medic in a

rig.

> I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN;

that it is

> against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine, etc..

> She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is

this

> happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

> (PETSAR)

> Office

> FAX

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank You for all the information.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

Greg Higgins

I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or

if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was

only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As

usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

Greg Higgins

I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or

if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was

only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As

usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

Greg Higgins

I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or

if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was

only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As

usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In most cases, no sinister motive. Just like the case in question

(the JCAHO being blamed), just laziness, or ignorance of the

rules.

BUT, interestingly, with the AHA thing there is a lot of politics

there (anyone who things non-profits like AHA are NOT interested

in revenue don't know how that all works! For AHA for example,

their ECC Training is probably the biggest money maker). We've

had cases of a hospital education department wanting to change,

because it would be more flexible and actually save money, and

AHA found out, and the AHA honcho calls the CEO of the hospital,

who's on the fundraising board of the local AHA affiliate, and

suddenly they don't want to change any more!

=Steve=

Steve , LP

AlertCPR Emergency Training

2300 Highland Village Rd, Suite 340

Highland Village, TX 75077

>--- Original Message ---

>From: lnmolino@...

>To:

>Date: 1/5/05 10:37:18 AM

>

>

>

>In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:31:04 P.M. Central Standard Time,

>je.hill@... writes:

>

>It is amazing how sometimes these things get stretched. You

have to wonder

>on the " why's " of this sort of thing and what the REAL motivations

are.

>

>

>I think you're giving more credit then is due, most often it's

pure laziest

>and or the unwillingness to change.

>

>The acceptance of AHA and only AHA as a provider of HCP level

CPR is by and

>far the best example in my view. We've always done it that way

is the fall

>back of all times. I doubt that those managers have the ability

to have sinister

> ulterior motives as that takes effort on their part.

>

>Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

>FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

>LNMolino@...

> (Home Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (TEEX Office)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

>The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the

author and the

>author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person

or

>organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated

with unless I

>specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail

is intended only for its

>stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials

>retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the

public domain by the

>original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In most cases, no sinister motive. Just like the case in question

(the JCAHO being blamed), just laziness, or ignorance of the

rules.

BUT, interestingly, with the AHA thing there is a lot of politics

there (anyone who things non-profits like AHA are NOT interested

in revenue don't know how that all works! For AHA for example,

their ECC Training is probably the biggest money maker). We've

had cases of a hospital education department wanting to change,

because it would be more flexible and actually save money, and

AHA found out, and the AHA honcho calls the CEO of the hospital,

who's on the fundraising board of the local AHA affiliate, and

suddenly they don't want to change any more!

=Steve=

Steve , LP

AlertCPR Emergency Training

2300 Highland Village Rd, Suite 340

Highland Village, TX 75077

>--- Original Message ---

>From: lnmolino@...

>To:

>Date: 1/5/05 10:37:18 AM

>

>

>

>In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:31:04 P.M. Central Standard Time,

>je.hill@... writes:

>

>It is amazing how sometimes these things get stretched. You

have to wonder

>on the " why's " of this sort of thing and what the REAL motivations

are.

>

>

>I think you're giving more credit then is due, most often it's

pure laziest

>and or the unwillingness to change.

>

>The acceptance of AHA and only AHA as a provider of HCP level

CPR is by and

>far the best example in my view. We've always done it that way

is the fall

>back of all times. I doubt that those managers have the ability

to have sinister

> ulterior motives as that takes effort on their part.

>

>Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

>FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

>LNMolino@...

> (Home Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (TEEX Office)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

>The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the

author and the

>author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person

or

>organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated

with unless I

>specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail

is intended only for its

>stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials

>retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the

public domain by the

>original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's easier to blame it on those (Bad Guys)that take the hit ourself.

Most individuals (rank and file) won't go the trouble to research the

regs and find out for themselves that the regs are boggus and the reg

actually came from the administrator who just didn't want to listen to

the flak.

BH

RE: Drip Medications

On a similar vein, I've noticed that management often " creates " a

mythical regulation to prevent doing something they didn't want done.

So far, I've noticed the following people " won't let us do that. "

1) JCAHO

2) OSHA

3) TDH (now DSHS)

4) Our insurance company

5) Our attorneys (my personal favorite)

And of course, reasons of " homeland security " and " HIPPA " are cited as

well.

Often, the REAL reason is that the person quoting policy, laws, or

regulations just doesn't want to do it.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for

something not happening.

[Guest guest]

It's easier to blame it on those (Bad Guys)that take the hit ourself.

Most individuals (rank and file) won't go the trouble to research the

regs and find out for themselves that the regs are boggus and the reg

actually came from the administrator who just didn't want to listen to

the flak.

BH

RE: Drip Medications

On a similar vein, I've noticed that management often " creates " a

mythical regulation to prevent doing something they didn't want done.

So far, I've noticed the following people " won't let us do that. "

1) JCAHO

2) OSHA

3) TDH (now DSHS)

4) Our insurance company

5) Our attorneys (my personal favorite)

And of course, reasons of " homeland security " and " HIPPA " are cited as

well.

Often, the REAL reason is that the person quoting policy, laws, or

regulations just doesn't want to do it.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for

something not happening.

[Guest guest]

It's easier to blame it on those (Bad Guys)that take the hit ourself.

Most individuals (rank and file) won't go the trouble to research the

regs and find out for themselves that the regs are boggus and the reg

actually came from the administrator who just didn't want to listen to

the flak.

BH

RE: Drip Medications

On a similar vein, I've noticed that management often " creates " a

mythical regulation to prevent doing something they didn't want done.

So far, I've noticed the following people " won't let us do that. "

1) JCAHO

2) OSHA

3) TDH (now DSHS)

4) Our insurance company

5) Our attorneys (my personal favorite)

And of course, reasons of " homeland security " and " HIPPA " are cited as

well.

Often, the REAL reason is that the person quoting policy, laws, or

regulations just doesn't want to do it.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT

Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for

something not happening.

[Guest guest]

Just looking at the organization that was quoated should give you the hint that

it was not their mandate. OSHA regulates worker safety and health in the work

place.

petsardlj@... wrote:

In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

Greg Higgins

I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or

if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was

only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As

usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Just looking at the organization that was quoated should give you the hint that

it was not their mandate. OSHA regulates worker safety and health in the work

place.

petsardlj@... wrote:

In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

Greg Higgins

I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or

if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was

only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As

usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Just looking at the organization that was quoated should give you the hint that

it was not their mandate. OSHA regulates worker safety and health in the work

place.

petsardlj@... wrote:

In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

Greg Higgins

I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or

if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was

only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As

usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

this is not a new rule we have been required by medical direction to use

separate bags for those medications for many uncountable years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Drip Medications

In a message dated 1/5/2005 10:34:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... writes:

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Guest guest]

this is not a new rule we have been required by medical direction to use

separate bags for those medications for many uncountable years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Drip Medications

In a message dated 1/5/2005 10:34:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... writes:

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Guest guest]

this is not a new rule we have been required by medical direction to use

separate bags for those medications for many uncountable years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Drip Medications

In a message dated 1/5/2005 10:34:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,

petsardlj@... writes:

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.