RE: Drip Medications

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 10:47:32 AM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@...

writes:

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

I did ask. The issue is the problem of mixing the drips inappropriately.

She did specify both entities for in-hospital have done this. I still seem to

think this is a training problem. I can't believe that calculations cannot be

done anymore. Of course with the threads that have come across this

listserver maybe it is not just an EMS problem but a problem in the medical

field in

general????

As far as mixing the meds at infusion the pharmacy is responsible for this.

The floor nurses do not mix anymore. Again I have not seen this as an issue in

EMS but maybe it is coming and we just don't know it yet. Like not knowing

something coming is a big change in SOP.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 10:47:32 AM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@...

writes:

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

I did ask. The issue is the problem of mixing the drips inappropriately.

She did specify both entities for in-hospital have done this. I still seem to

think this is a training problem. I can't believe that calculations cannot be

done anymore. Of course with the threads that have come across this

listserver maybe it is not just an EMS problem but a problem in the medical

field in

general????

As far as mixing the meds at infusion the pharmacy is responsible for this.

The floor nurses do not mix anymore. Again I have not seen this as an issue in

EMS but maybe it is coming and we just don't know it yet. Like not knowing

something coming is a big change in SOP.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 10:47:32 AM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@...

writes:

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

I did ask. The issue is the problem of mixing the drips inappropriately.

She did specify both entities for in-hospital have done this. I still seem to

think this is a training problem. I can't believe that calculations cannot be

done anymore. Of course with the threads that have come across this

listserver maybe it is not just an EMS problem but a problem in the medical

field in

general????

As far as mixing the meds at infusion the pharmacy is responsible for this.

The floor nurses do not mix anymore. Again I have not seen this as an issue in

EMS but maybe it is coming and we just don't know it yet. Like not knowing

something coming is a big change in SOP.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 11:19:09 AM Central Standard Time, je.hill@...

writes:

One more thing I noted from working in the hospital environment, it was very

common for administration to pass new rules about any number of things and

then blame the changes on JCAHO or other agencies. Sometimes it was true,

sometimes it was just an attempt to justify the change with as few complication

as

possible with the staff.

Jane Hill

That is my thought as well. I have only noticed this as coming up as a

problem in-hospital. I just wanted to make sure this was not another change yet

to

be implemented.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 11:19:09 AM Central Standard Time, je.hill@...

writes:

One more thing I noted from working in the hospital environment, it was very

common for administration to pass new rules about any number of things and

then blame the changes on JCAHO or other agencies. Sometimes it was true,

sometimes it was just an attempt to justify the change with as few complication

as

possible with the staff.

Jane Hill

That is my thought as well. I have only noticed this as coming up as a

problem in-hospital. I just wanted to make sure this was not another change yet

to

be implemented.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/05 11:19:09 AM Central Standard Time, je.hill@...

writes:

One more thing I noted from working in the hospital environment, it was very

common for administration to pass new rules about any number of things and

then blame the changes on JCAHO or other agencies. Sometimes it was true,

sometimes it was just an attempt to justify the change with as few complication

as

possible with the staff.

Jane Hill

That is my thought as well. I have only noticed this as coming up as a

problem in-hospital. I just wanted to make sure this was not another change yet

to

be implemented.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:46:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

My whole point is that OSHA would not have any reason to mandate anything on

this as OSHA does not do patient safety they do employee safety and there are

no issues here that relate to that (by any stretch of my contorted

imagination anyway). Simple stated unless someone can point me to the said

" regulation, that I frankly don't think exists there is not an issue here with

OSHA.

As was stated earlier by Jane I think managers tend to blame regulators for

stuff they make up as a way out and sadly 95% of the work force just goes

along with it. God forbid we question management after all they never would lie

to us.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:46:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,

gs.higgins@... writes:

We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this

was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was

unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA

regulation so we can put this to rest?

My whole point is that OSHA would not have any reason to mandate anything on

this as OSHA does not do patient safety they do employee safety and there are

no issues here that relate to that (by any stretch of my contorted

imagination anyway). Simple stated unless someone can point me to the said

" regulation, that I frankly don't think exists there is not an issue here with

OSHA.

As was stated earlier by Jane I think managers tend to blame regulators for

stuff they make up as a way out and sadly 95% of the work force just goes

along with it. God forbid we question management after all they never would lie

to us.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:55:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for

something not happening.

I can assure you that you have and you're likely even unaware of it as we

speak!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:55:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for

something not happening.

I can assure you that you have and you're likely even unaware of it as we

speak!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:55:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for

something not happening.

I can assure you that you have and you're likely even unaware of it as we

speak!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

One more thing I noted from working in the hospital environment, it was very

common for administration to pass new rules about any number of things and then

blame the changes on JCAHO or other agencies. Sometimes it was true, sometimes

it was just an attempt to justify the change with as few complication as

possible with the staff.

Jane Hill

-------------- Original message from petsardlj@...: --------------

In a message dated 1/5/05 10:47:32 AM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@...

writes:

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

I did ask. The issue is the problem of mixing the drips inappropriately.

She did specify both entities for in-hospital have done this. I still seem to

think this is a training problem. I can't believe that calculations cannot be

done anymore. Of course with the threads that have come across this

listserver maybe it is not just an EMS problem but a problem in the medical

field in

general????

As far as mixing the meds at infusion the pharmacy is responsible for this.

The floor nurses do not mix anymore. Again I have not seen this as an issue in

EMS but maybe it is coming and we just don't know it yet. Like not knowing

something coming is a big change in SOP.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

One more thing I noted from working in the hospital environment, it was very

common for administration to pass new rules about any number of things and then

blame the changes on JCAHO or other agencies. Sometimes it was true, sometimes

it was just an attempt to justify the change with as few complication as

possible with the staff.

Jane Hill

-------------- Original message from petsardlj@...: --------------

In a message dated 1/5/05 10:47:32 AM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@...

writes:

Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule?

OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an

employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would

understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to

be

mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices

tend

to be very bad things in my view.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

(Cell Phone)

(TEEX Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

I did ask. The issue is the problem of mixing the drips inappropriately.

She did specify both entities for in-hospital have done this. I still seem to

think this is a training problem. I can't believe that calculations cannot be

done anymore. Of course with the threads that have come across this

listserver maybe it is not just an EMS problem but a problem in the medical

field in

general????

As far as mixing the meds at infusion the pharmacy is responsible for this.

The floor nurses do not mix anymore. Again I have not seen this as an issue in

EMS but maybe it is coming and we just don't know it yet. Like not knowing

something coming is a big change in SOP.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

I have never heard of such a thing as this. Lots of ems agencies still

use do not carry pre-mixed dopamine and lidocaine drips . we used them

for adults but have to mix lido. Drip in a buretrol for pediatric post

resuscitation.

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

I have never heard of such a thing as this. Lots of ems agencies still

use do not carry pre-mixed dopamine and lidocaine drips . we used them

for adults but have to mix lido. Drip in a buretrol for pediatric post

resuscitation.

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

This is the first I have heard of anything like this, and it would really make

no real sense in the prehospital world - if for no other reason, due to expense

and space confinement issues for stock.

Jane Hill

-------------- Original message from petsardlj@...: --------------

In a message dated 1/5/05 11:19:09 AM Central Standard Time, je.hill@...

writes:

One more thing I noted from working in the hospital environment, it was very

common for administration to pass new rules about any number of things and

then blame the changes on JCAHO or other agencies. Sometimes it was true,

sometimes it was just an attempt to justify the change with as few complication

as

possible with the staff.

Jane Hill

That is my thought as well. I have only noticed this as coming up as a

problem in-hospital. I just wanted to make sure this was not another change yet

to

be implemented.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

There are JCH regulations in place that state all medications that are

mixed or componded must be done so by pharmacy personnel only.

Mike Hudson

>>> jamesdav@... 01/05/05 11:19 AM >>>

I have never heard of such a thing as this. Lots of ems agencies still

use do not carry pre-mixed dopamine and lidocaine drips . we used them

for adults but have to mix lido. Drip in a buretrol for pediatric post

resuscitation.

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

For HOSPITALS. I was saying that I had heard of nothing like this affecting the

EMS industry.

Jane

--------- Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

For HOSPITALS. I was saying that I had heard of nothing like this affecting the

EMS industry.

Jane

--------- Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

For HOSPITALS. I was saying that I had heard of nothing like this affecting the

EMS industry.

Jane

--------- Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Wha is JCH??

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Wha is JCH??

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Wha is JCH??

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Slang term for Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation.

Jane

--------- Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Slang term for Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation.

Jane

--------- Drip Medications

I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that

it is

against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine,

Lidocaine,

etc..

She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this

happening in EMS or are we behind like usual?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX