Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Not to start the whole EMS vs. RN thing, but the key words here are " who happens to be an RN " . RN's do have thier hands tied as to things they can and can't do. It is a bit different as a medic in a rig. > I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is > against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine, etc.. > She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this > happening in EMS or are we behind like usual? > > Danny L. > Owner/NREMT-P > Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response > (PETSAR) > Office > FAX > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Not to start the whole EMS vs. RN thing, but the key words here are " who happens to be an RN " . RN's do have thier hands tied as to things they can and can't do. It is a bit different as a medic in a rig. > I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is > against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine, etc.. > She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this > happening in EMS or are we behind like usual? > > Danny L. > Owner/NREMT-P > Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response > (PETSAR) > Office > FAX > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Thank You for all the information. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA regulation so we can put this to rest? Greg Higgins I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA regulation so we can put this to rest? Greg Higgins I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA regulation so we can put this to rest? Greg Higgins I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In most cases, no sinister motive. Just like the case in question (the JCAHO being blamed), just laziness, or ignorance of the rules. BUT, interestingly, with the AHA thing there is a lot of politics there (anyone who things non-profits like AHA are NOT interested in revenue don't know how that all works! For AHA for example, their ECC Training is probably the biggest money maker). We've had cases of a hospital education department wanting to change, because it would be more flexible and actually save money, and AHA found out, and the AHA honcho calls the CEO of the hospital, who's on the fundraising board of the local AHA affiliate, and suddenly they don't want to change any more! =Steve= Steve , LP AlertCPR Emergency Training 2300 Highland Village Rd, Suite 340 Highland Village, TX 75077 >--- Original Message --- >From: lnmolino@... >To: >Date: 1/5/05 10:37:18 AM > > > >In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:31:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, >je.hill@... writes: > >It is amazing how sometimes these things get stretched. You have to wonder >on the " why's " of this sort of thing and what the REAL motivations are. > > >I think you're giving more credit then is due, most often it's pure laziest >and or the unwillingness to change. > >The acceptance of AHA and only AHA as a provider of HCP level CPR is by and >far the best example in my view. We've always done it that way is the fall >back of all times. I doubt that those managers have the ability to have sinister > ulterior motives as that takes effort on their part. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >LNMolino@... > (Home Office) > (Cell Phone) > (TEEX Office) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > >The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the >author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or >organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I >specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its >stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials >retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the >original author. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In most cases, no sinister motive. Just like the case in question (the JCAHO being blamed), just laziness, or ignorance of the rules. BUT, interestingly, with the AHA thing there is a lot of politics there (anyone who things non-profits like AHA are NOT interested in revenue don't know how that all works! For AHA for example, their ECC Training is probably the biggest money maker). We've had cases of a hospital education department wanting to change, because it would be more flexible and actually save money, and AHA found out, and the AHA honcho calls the CEO of the hospital, who's on the fundraising board of the local AHA affiliate, and suddenly they don't want to change any more! =Steve= Steve , LP AlertCPR Emergency Training 2300 Highland Village Rd, Suite 340 Highland Village, TX 75077 >--- Original Message --- >From: lnmolino@... >To: >Date: 1/5/05 10:37:18 AM > > > >In a message dated 1/5/2005 2:31:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, >je.hill@... writes: > >It is amazing how sometimes these things get stretched. You have to wonder >on the " why's " of this sort of thing and what the REAL motivations are. > > >I think you're giving more credit then is due, most often it's pure laziest >and or the unwillingness to change. > >The acceptance of AHA and only AHA as a provider of HCP level CPR is by and >far the best example in my view. We've always done it that way is the fall >back of all times. I doubt that those managers have the ability to have sinister > ulterior motives as that takes effort on their part. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >LNMolino@... > (Home Office) > (Cell Phone) > (TEEX Office) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > >The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the >author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or >organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I >specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its >stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials >retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the >original author. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 It's easier to blame it on those (Bad Guys)that take the hit ourself. Most individuals (rank and file) won't go the trouble to research the regs and find out for themselves that the regs are boggus and the reg actually came from the administrator who just didn't want to listen to the flak. BH RE: Drip Medications On a similar vein, I've noticed that management often " creates " a mythical regulation to prevent doing something they didn't want done. So far, I've noticed the following people " won't let us do that. " 1) JCAHO 2) OSHA 3) TDH (now DSHS) 4) Our insurance company 5) Our attorneys (my personal favorite) And of course, reasons of " homeland security " and " HIPPA " are cited as well. Often, the REAL reason is that the person quoting policy, laws, or regulations just doesn't want to do it. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for something not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 It's easier to blame it on those (Bad Guys)that take the hit ourself. Most individuals (rank and file) won't go the trouble to research the regs and find out for themselves that the regs are boggus and the reg actually came from the administrator who just didn't want to listen to the flak. BH RE: Drip Medications On a similar vein, I've noticed that management often " creates " a mythical regulation to prevent doing something they didn't want done. So far, I've noticed the following people " won't let us do that. " 1) JCAHO 2) OSHA 3) TDH (now DSHS) 4) Our insurance company 5) Our attorneys (my personal favorite) And of course, reasons of " homeland security " and " HIPPA " are cited as well. Often, the REAL reason is that the person quoting policy, laws, or regulations just doesn't want to do it. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for something not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 It's easier to blame it on those (Bad Guys)that take the hit ourself. Most individuals (rank and file) won't go the trouble to research the regs and find out for themselves that the regs are boggus and the reg actually came from the administrator who just didn't want to listen to the flak. BH RE: Drip Medications On a similar vein, I've noticed that management often " creates " a mythical regulation to prevent doing something they didn't want done. So far, I've noticed the following people " won't let us do that. " 1) JCAHO 2) OSHA 3) TDH (now DSHS) 4) Our insurance company 5) Our attorneys (my personal favorite) And of course, reasons of " homeland security " and " HIPPA " are cited as well. Often, the REAL reason is that the person quoting policy, laws, or regulations just doesn't want to do it. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT Disclaimer -- as an attorney, I've probably been indirectly blamed for something not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Just looking at the organization that was quoated should give you the hint that it was not their mandate. OSHA regulates worker safety and health in the work place. petsardlj@... wrote: In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA regulation so we can put this to rest? Greg Higgins I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Just looking at the organization that was quoated should give you the hint that it was not their mandate. OSHA regulates worker safety and health in the work place. petsardlj@... wrote: In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA regulation so we can put this to rest? Greg Higgins I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Just looking at the organization that was quoated should give you the hint that it was not their mandate. OSHA regulates worker safety and health in the work place. petsardlj@... wrote: In a message dated 1/5/05 2:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: We seemed to be missing how this thread started. It was stated that this was an OSHA mandate. I have done a quick search of the OSHA regs and was unable to locate anything. Would someone please quote the specific OSHA regulation so we can put this to rest? Greg Higgins I originally asked the question to ascertain whether this is just hospital or if it is an industry wide (health care) mandate. I felt sure that it was only for hospital but needed further information to prove this hypothesis. As usual the individuals on this list provided the information needed. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 this is not a new rule we have been required by medical direction to use separate bags for those medications for many uncountable years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Drip Medications In a message dated 1/5/2005 10:34:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, petsardlj@... writes: I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine, etc.. She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this happening in EMS or are we behind like usual? Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule? OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to be mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices tend to be very bad things in my view. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Home Office) (Cell Phone) (TEEX Office) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 this is not a new rule we have been required by medical direction to use separate bags for those medications for many uncountable years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Drip Medications In a message dated 1/5/2005 10:34:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, petsardlj@... writes: I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine, etc.. She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this happening in EMS or are we behind like usual? Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule? OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to be mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices tend to be very bad things in my view. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Home Office) (Cell Phone) (TEEX Office) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 this is not a new rule we have been required by medical direction to use separate bags for those medications for many uncountable years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Drip Medications In a message dated 1/5/2005 10:34:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, petsardlj@... writes: I have recently been advised by my wife, who happens to be an RN; that it is against regulations to mix medication drips, i.e., dopamine, Lidocaine, etc.. She states that OSHA and JACHO have made this a regulation. Is this happening in EMS or are we behind like usual? Please ask her why OSHA would make such a rule? OSHA only writes rules that impact employee safety, mixing a med is not an employee safety issue it is a patient safety issue which is why I would understand JACHO getting in on it but even then aren't some med's required to be mixed at the time of infusion? Regulations that dictate clinical practices tend to be very bad things in my view. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Home Office) (Cell Phone) (TEEX Office) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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