questions

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen;

Typically for a thyroid cancer patient, our TSH should be less

than .1 - you don't mention what yours is.. but thats the level to be

working towards, it keeps us sufficiently suppressed that if there

were to be some remaining thyroid cancer cells, they wouldn't be

stimulated to grow.

Its really difficult to know if your thyroid cancer is completely

gone without a scan. There are two indications, a scan showing

uptake of radioactive iodine, and TG thyroglobulin which is measured

via a blood test, typically when the patient is hypo (off their meds)

so that if there were any remaining thyroid tissue, cancerous or not,

it would either show up on a scan or by having a high TG measurment.

A TG reading while suppressed (on medication) wouldn't tell much, and

TSH level don't tell if there is any remaining thyroid tissue, they

just measure how much you are suppressed.

So, in my opinion (and i'm a patient just like you and not a doctor)

you aren't being followed in a way that would tell about if your

thyroid cancer is completely gone at this point, and the only

indication of recurrence would be if your doc felt a lump in a neck

check.. but it could be behind something, or not very big, and thats

not an ideal way to tell. With a scan they would know more. If it

were me, I would find that more reassuring.

Good luck, and welcome back

barb

tt8/99 RAI 4/00 Clean Scans 12/00,5/02

> Hi everyone,

> I have been a member of this group for quite a while and had my

> thyroid removed nearly four year ago. I have not been reading the

> post for quite a while, this was partly due to the fact that you

guys

> made me doubt the treatment i am receiving and i havent read

anything

> on the board for some time.

>

> Well now im back and as usual I have questions, some of which you

> guys have probably answered loads of time but im going to ask all

the

> same.

>

> I have an appointment with my oncologist on thrusday and i was

> hopeing someone would be able to answer the following:

>

> I have been on thryoid replacement for about 3 1/2 years

(thryoxine)

> and have never been on the same dose for more than 6 months. My

dose

> has gone up and down. The most i have been on was 8 months ago and

i

> was on 500mg per day this has nothing to do with weight, this was

> because they have not been able to supress my tsh levels. Well

sice

> then ive gone down to 400mg, 350mg, 300mg and 250mg and at this

point

> my doctor told me for a normal person i would be slightly ober

> medicated but she was frightened to drop my does any lower as my

TSH

> level would rise. Then the other day i had to take my son to see

my

> gp and she said she was glad i had taken him as she needed to see

me

> she had sent my results throught to my oncologist and she had told

my

> GP to riase my thyroxine again as my YSH levels were not suppressed

> enough. So im now back on 300mg per day. OK guys im so sorry this

is

> so long winded but im so confused. What should my TSH and T4 level

> be??? and what effect are all these tablets having on my body. Im

> not sure if i was slightly over medicated according to my Gp on

250mg

> per day why am i now on 300mg per day. How long did it take you

guys

> to get you medication levels right as i think 4 years is a bit too

> long.

>

> 2nd question.... I live in the UK and im not sure if all thyroid

> cancer patients here a treated the same way but as i said I was

> suppose to have had a total thyroidectomy done and my surgeon

decided

> during the op that things looked better than he had hoped (good

news

> right...) well unfortunately not two weeks later when my labv

results

> came back it turned out that i did indeed have folicular cancer and

> they decided they could remove the rest with radioactive iodine

(this

> all seems fairly normal right?) well my surgeon told me they would

do

> the iodine thing and then i would have to have a body scan to see

if

> they could trace anything else. I have never had this scan. Well to

> this day this is all the treatment i have had apart from the

messing

> about with my medication and they feel my neck and take my blood

> every 6 months (the blood thing has been done every 8 weeks by my

GP

> this year as they have been trying to get the medication right)

sorry

> im rambling on and on but you all talk about doing the lid and

scans

> and ive never had them is it just me or is this normal???????

>

> As i said i had a 4cm folicular tumour which they did removed or at

> least i hope they did.

>

> |Please help. Maybe its normal and if there was a problem then

this

> would show up in my blood test right???? or maybe not as my blood

> tests were normal and showed no problems thyroid or other even with

> the tumour.

>

> As you can see im desperate and need advice anyhing anyone wants to

> comment on would be much apreciated.

>

> Many thanks for taking the time to read this novel

>

> Helen (34 years old), thyroid cancer removed 1998 december,

> Pseudotumour cerebri diagnosed October 1999, 5 surgeries in 4 years

> and still trying to get myself sorted out. Im a medical marvel :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi, Helen - I can answer some of this:

>What should my TSH and T4 level be???

TSH should be <0.1, TG should be pretty much undetectable, Free T4 in

the upper end of normal levels (my lab shows normal as 0.8-1.7). I

believe some doctors are fine with Free T4 levels slightly above

normal, though there are some indications that free T4 levels that are

too high can contribute to bone density loss.

> and what effect are all these tablets having on my body. Im

> not sure if i was slightly over medicated according to my Gp on

> 250mg per day why am i now on 300mg per day.

Here's my thought - I would NOT be seeing a GP to follow my Thyca - I

would (and am) seeing an endocrinologist who is familiar with Thyca.

And I would absolutely be getting copies of all my medical reports,

including all the blood work, so that I could follow it.

> How long did it take you guys to get you medication levels

> right as i think 4 years is a bit too long.

I know this varies a lot, and will leave it to folks who've had

challenges (and there are some) for longer times

> 2nd question.... I live in the UK and <snip> my surgeon told me they

> would do

> the iodine thing and then i would have to have a body scan to see if

> they could trace anything else. I have never had this scan. Well to

> this day this is all the treatment i have had apart from the messing

> about with my medication and they feel my neck and take my blood

> every 6 months (the blood thing has been done every 8 weeks by my GP

> this year as they have been trying to get the medication right)

> sorry im rambling on and on but you all talk about doing the lid and

> scans and ive never had them is it just me or is this normal???????

Normal protocol is to have RAI, although there are some doctors who

don't do it. Again, it seems to me that you need to see a doctor who

is familiar with Thyca. Generally, that is NOT a GP, or an oncologist

(because treatment of Thyca is different than most other cancers).

>

> As i said i had a 4cm folicular tumour which they did removed or at

> least i hope they did.

>

> |Please help. Maybe its normal and if there was a problem then this

> would show up in my blood test right???? or maybe not as my blood

> tests were normal and showed no problems thyroid or other even with

> the tumour.

The problem is that the blood work - specifically, the TG test, which

is the cancer marker - is only useful in tracking your cancer if you

have had RAI, because TG is produced by thyroid tissue, healthy or

not. If you only had a TT, there is almost certainly residual thyroid

tissue, so the TG levels won't tell them if the cancer has recurred.

> As you can see im desperate and need advice anyhing anyone wants to

> comment on would be much apreciated.

I can sure understand that - it's frustrating to feel out of control,

and it sound's like that's what you're feeling like.

Cheers,

Alisa

2/15/2002: Nodule found 2/27/2002: FNA

3/4/2002: Hysterectomy/oopherectomy-possible ovarian cancer - BENIGN!!

4/9/2002: TT - Stage 2 pap 2.5 x 2 x 1.6 cm nodule, dx Hashimotos

5/28/2002: TBS and 100 mCi RAI 6/6/2002: TBS - No sign of mets

Currently - TSH 0.06, 140mcg Levoxyl

Age: 48 Location: near Seattle WA

Please feel free to email me privately anytime

Check out my posts:

Radioactive Girl - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thyca/message/19472

My LID - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thyca/message/15872

My RAI - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thyca/message/15873

>

> Many thanks for taking the time to read this novel

>

> Helen (34 years old), thyroid cancer removed 1998 december,

> Pseudotumour cerebri diagnosed October 1999, 5 surgeries in 4 years

> and still trying to get myself sorted out. Im a medical marvel :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi, Helen - I can answer some of this:

>What should my TSH and T4 level be???

TSH should be <0.1, TG should be pretty much undetectable, Free T4 in

the upper end of normal levels (my lab shows normal as 0.8-1.7). I

believe some doctors are fine with Free T4 levels slightly above

normal, though there are some indications that free T4 levels that are

too high can contribute to bone density loss.

> and what effect are all these tablets having on my body. Im

> not sure if i was slightly over medicated according to my Gp on

> 250mg per day why am i now on 300mg per day.

Here's my thought - I would NOT be seeing a GP to follow my Thyca - I

would (and am) seeing an endocrinologist who is familiar with Thyca.

And I would absolutely be getting copies of all my medical reports,

including all the blood work, so that I could follow it.

> How long did it take you guys to get you medication levels

> right as i think 4 years is a bit too long.

I know this varies a lot, and will leave it to folks who've had

challenges (and there are some) for longer times

> 2nd question.... I live in the UK and <snip> my surgeon told me they

> would do

> the iodine thing and then i would have to have a body scan to see if

> they could trace anything else. I have never had this scan. Well to

> this day this is all the treatment i have had apart from the messing

> about with my medication and they feel my neck and take my blood

> every 6 months (the blood thing has been done every 8 weeks by my GP

> this year as they have been trying to get the medication right)

> sorry im rambling on and on but you all talk about doing the lid and

> scans and ive never had them is it just me or is this normal???????

Normal protocol is to have RAI, although there are some doctors who

don't do it. Again, it seems to me that you need to see a doctor who

is familiar with Thyca. Generally, that is NOT a GP, or an oncologist

(because treatment of Thyca is different than most other cancers).

>

> As i said i had a 4cm folicular tumour which they did removed or at

> least i hope they did.

>

> |Please help. Maybe its normal and if there was a problem then this

> would show up in my blood test right???? or maybe not as my blood

> tests were normal and showed no problems thyroid or other even with

> the tumour.

The problem is that the blood work - specifically, the TG test, which

is the cancer marker - is only useful in tracking your cancer if you

have had RAI, because TG is produced by thyroid tissue, healthy or

not. If you only had a TT, there is almost certainly residual thyroid

tissue, so the TG levels won't tell them if the cancer has recurred.

> As you can see im desperate and need advice anyhing anyone wants to

> comment on would be much apreciated.

I can sure understand that - it's frustrating to feel out of control,

and it sound's like that's what you're feeling like.

Cheers,

Alisa

2/15/2002: Nodule found 2/27/2002: FNA

3/4/2002: Hysterectomy/oopherectomy-possible ovarian cancer - BENIGN!!

4/9/2002: TT - Stage 2 pap 2.5 x 2 x 1.6 cm nodule, dx Hashimotos

5/28/2002: TBS and 100 mCi RAI 6/6/2002: TBS - No sign of mets

Currently - TSH 0.06, 140mcg Levoxyl

Age: 48 Location: near Seattle WA

Please feel free to email me privately anytime

Check out my posts:

Radioactive Girl - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thyca/message/19472

My LID - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thyca/message/15872

My RAI - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thyca/message/15873

>

> Many thanks for taking the time to read this novel

>

> Helen (34 years old), thyroid cancer removed 1998 december,

> Pseudotumour cerebri diagnosed October 1999, 5 surgeries in 4 years

> and still trying to get myself sorted out. Im a medical marvel :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

Welcome back~! I do remember the difficult time you were having in getting

the right dose of T4. My thoughts are that you could have functioning

tissue still in there. If the RAI didn't get all of the remaining tissue

and since they didn't scan you after the RAI treatment, this may explain

why your TSH won't become stable and why your T4 dose keeps changing.

Is it possible for you to have a RAI scan? I know your health system is

different, but I'm hoping that you can find resolution to some of these

issues. They are indeed frustrating, especially when different doctors say

different things about the same situation. :-(

Hope this helps,

in Canton, OH

1965 TT P/F thyca, no RAI, hypoparathyroidism

1982 Recurrence to neck and chest, RAI 176 mCi

2001 Clean Scan PTL~!

--

" ...the joy of the Lord is your strength " .

Nehemiah 8:10b; NIV

Does your ISP pay *you* for referring others?

http://www.ispvip.biz/peace2you

helenmdx said:

> I have been on thryoid replacement for about 3 1/2 years (thryoxine)

> and have never been on the same dose for more than 6 months. My dose

> has gone up and down. The most i have been on was 8 months ago and i

> was on 500mg per day this has nothing to do with weight, this was

> because they have not been able to supress my tsh levels.

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

Welcome back~! I do remember the difficult time you were having in getting

the right dose of T4. My thoughts are that you could have functioning

tissue still in there. If the RAI didn't get all of the remaining tissue

and since they didn't scan you after the RAI treatment, this may explain

why your TSH won't become stable and why your T4 dose keeps changing.

Is it possible for you to have a RAI scan? I know your health system is

different, but I'm hoping that you can find resolution to some of these

issues. They are indeed frustrating, especially when different doctors say

different things about the same situation. :-(

Hope this helps,

in Canton, OH

1965 TT P/F thyca, no RAI, hypoparathyroidism

1982 Recurrence to neck and chest, RAI 176 mCi

2001 Clean Scan PTL~!

--

" ...the joy of the Lord is your strength " .

Nehemiah 8:10b; NIV

Does your ISP pay *you* for referring others?

http://www.ispvip.biz/peace2you

helenmdx said:

> I have been on thryoid replacement for about 3 1/2 years (thryoxine)

> and have never been on the same dose for more than 6 months. My dose

> has gone up and down. The most i have been on was 8 months ago and i

> was on 500mg per day this has nothing to do with weight, this was

> because they have not been able to supress my tsh levels.

[Guest guest]

,

Ask all the questions you want! That is what we are here for.

Weigh ins- right here in a post. If you want to be on the spreadsheet

just let Shan know your starting weight and she will do it for you.

Just let her know by Fri your weight for the week.

Water- the best formula I have seen is take your body weight in half,

that is how many ounces a day. But this does not all have to be done

all t he sudden. Work up to it gradually.

Most things I have read say anything other than water really shouldn't

count because when it has something else it makes your kidneys work

differently. Especially caffenated things. But there are lots of

flavored waters like Propel that might be good and if anything juice is

good too. Just not too much of it. Just avoid carbonated as much as

possible.

I hope that helps.

Gena :-)

> I'm trying to get into the swing of things here and I just have a few

> quick questions for you.

> When do we weigh in?  Is there a specific day? 

> How much water is recommended?  And do drinks that are water based

> count towards that goal?  Cause I water down all the juice I drink and

> it adds a lot of water to my diet. 

> I think there was more, but I can't remember right now.

> Thanks in advance.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Is this 60mg of Armour? If so, yes, usually this is

too high a dose to start at right away. I started at

15mg and worked my way up slowly -- it is gentler on

the body ... however if you are tolerating it ok ...

I'm not sure ... what concerns me is that your doctor

called you and changed his mind -- that signals to me

that he might not be that experienced with

hypothyroidism. It is a complex disorder and treatment

can be even more complex -- make sure he really knows

what he's doing. In the meantime, keep giving us your

test results. Next time you get tested, make sure to

get a free T3 and free T4 plus 2 tests for thyroid

antibodies ... as far as how soon you should notice

changes -- it really depends!! Sorry I can't give you

a more conclusive answer than that, but it's true!

Marlena

--- hsinthecountry wrote:

> Doc started me on Thyroid last Thurs based on TSH of

> 4.971 and my many

> symptoms. He started me on 60 mg once a day. He

> plans to retest in 2

> months.

>

> This morning I got an email from him saying to cut

> them in half. He

> wants me to do this for 2 months and come in for

> blood work.

>

> My questions are:

>

> Is it good to change so soon? I seem to be

> tolerating it. The first

> 2 days I felt weird but that has passed.

>

>

> How soon should I see changes in symptoms?

>

>

> What tests should be done in 2 months?

>

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

____________________________________________________

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> Is this 60mg of Armour? If so, yes, usually this is

> too high a dose to start at right away. I started at

> 15mg and worked my way up slowly -- it is gentler on

> the body ... however if you are tolerating it ok ...

> I'm not sure ...

It is generic Armour. When you say " worked your way up slowly " , how

slowly?

> what concerns me is that your doctor

> called you and changed his mind -- that signals to me

> that he might not be that experienced with

> hypothyroidism. It is a complex disorder and treatment

> can be even more complex -- make sure he really knows

> what he's doing.

At this point, he is willing to work with me. When he did the blood

test, he said that the TSH was within the normal range. While doing

some research into my husband's health problems, I learned that the

ranges had changes and that borderline high TSH with symptoms should

be treated as hypo.

I really like that he's so accessible - send an email, get a reply

within an hour or so, sometimes within minutes. So for now I'll

continue educating both of us. (hehe)

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> Is this 60mg of Armour? If so, yes, usually this is

> too high a dose to start at right away. I started at

> 15mg and worked my way up slowly -- it is gentler on

> the body ... however if you are tolerating it ok ...

> I'm not sure ...

It is generic Armour. When you say " worked your way up slowly " , how

slowly?

> what concerns me is that your doctor

> called you and changed his mind -- that signals to me

> that he might not be that experienced with

> hypothyroidism. It is a complex disorder and treatment

> can be even more complex -- make sure he really knows

> what he's doing.

At this point, he is willing to work with me. When he did the blood

test, he said that the TSH was within the normal range. While doing

some research into my husband's health problems, I learned that the

ranges had changes and that borderline high TSH with symptoms should

be treated as hypo.

I really like that he's so accessible - send an email, get a reply

within an hour or so, sometimes within minutes. So for now I'll

continue educating both of us. (hehe)

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the lowest its been is 95.9 and i am cold all the time

[Guest guest]

well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the lowest its been is 95.9 and i am cold all the time

[Guest guest]

well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the lowest its been is 95.9 and i am cold all the time

[Guest guest]

--- beardies33610@... wrote:

> i have symptoms too and my tsh is over 2.0 it is

> 2.035. but i need a new dr

> cause he is telling me that we need no more testing

> to be done im fine

>

He needs to test your frees and get them in the upper

part of their ranges. Most folks actually have a

" normal " TSH of 1.25 according to an Australian study

that was posted here a few weeks ago. I think it was

Australian anyway. It was interesting, but I didn't

save it. (

Kathy >^,,^<

KitzCat146@...

http://www.chaytongroup.com/modernbill/order/index.php?aid=ka081104

http://www.heartwarmers4u.com/members/?kitzcat

kitzcat2001 on Yahoo Messenger

kitzcat on MSN Messenger

In a cat's eyes, all things belong to cats. - English Proverb

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- beardies33610@... wrote:

> i have symptoms too and my tsh is over 2.0 it is

> 2.035. but i need a new dr

> cause he is telling me that we need no more testing

> to be done im fine

>

He needs to test your frees and get them in the upper

part of their ranges. Most folks actually have a

" normal " TSH of 1.25 according to an Australian study

that was posted here a few weeks ago. I think it was

Australian anyway. It was interesting, but I didn't

save it. (

Kathy >^,,^<

KitzCat146@...

http://www.chaytongroup.com/modernbill/order/index.php?aid=ka081104

http://www.heartwarmers4u.com/members/?kitzcat

kitzcat2001 on Yahoo Messenger

kitzcat on MSN Messenger

In a cat's eyes, all things belong to cats. - English Proverb

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

hi i am not on anything at all and it has gotten to the point i feel worse when i eat

[Guest guest]

> well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the lowest

its

> been is 95.9 to 97.2and i am cold all the time been trying to get

help but i am feel miserable damn drs,,, i feel alot anxiety in my

lower stomah i dont know really how to explan it i have puffy eye lids

feel my thyroid swellin jittery alot. skin rashes virtical lines on my

finder nails..very constapated that laxatives dont work my urin really

stinks i feel worse when i eat flushing..fluid retention..dry

skin ..lightheadedness dizzy and more please can someone give some

insight to this

Leland

[Guest guest]

> well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the lowest

its

> been is 95.9 to 97.2and i am cold all the time been trying to get

help but i am feel miserable damn drs,,, i feel alot anxiety in my

lower stomah i dont know really how to explan it i have puffy eye lids

feel my thyroid swellin jittery alot. skin rashes virtical lines on my

finder nails..very constapated that laxatives dont work my urin really

stinks i feel worse when i eat flushing..fluid retention..dry

skin ..lightheadedness dizzy and more please can someone give some

insight to this

Leland

[Guest guest]

> well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the lowest

its

> been is 95.9 to 97.2and i am cold all the time been trying to get

help but i am feel miserable damn drs,,, i feel alot anxiety in my

lower stomah i dont know really how to explan it i have puffy eye lids

feel my thyroid swellin jittery alot. skin rashes virtical lines on my

finder nails..very constapated that laxatives dont work my urin really

stinks i feel worse when i eat flushing..fluid retention..dry

skin ..lightheadedness dizzy and more please can someone give some

insight to this

Leland

[Guest guest]

I think you are very hypo right now and need to up your thyroid

replacement hormone. How much are you taking at the moment? I am

hyper-gone-hypo myself in the last few years and I find that it

helps a lot to adjust the nutional side of things. Are you taking

any meds?

> > well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the

lowest

> its

> > been is 95.9 to 97.2and i am cold all the time been trying to

get

> help but i am feel miserable damn drs,,, i feel alot anxiety in my

> lower stomah i dont know really how to explan it i have puffy eye

lids

> feel my thyroid swellin jittery alot. skin rashes virtical lines

on my

> finder nails..very constapated that laxatives dont work my urin

really

> stinks i feel worse when i eat flushing..fluid retention..dry

> skin ..lightheadedness dizzy and more please can someone give some

> insight to this

>

>

> Leland

[Guest guest]

I think you are very hypo right now and need to up your thyroid

replacement hormone. How much are you taking at the moment? I am

hyper-gone-hypo myself in the last few years and I find that it

helps a lot to adjust the nutional side of things. Are you taking

any meds?

> > well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the

lowest

> its

> > been is 95.9 to 97.2and i am cold all the time been trying to

get

> help but i am feel miserable damn drs,,, i feel alot anxiety in my

> lower stomah i dont know really how to explan it i have puffy eye

lids

> feel my thyroid swellin jittery alot. skin rashes virtical lines

on my

> finder nails..very constapated that laxatives dont work my urin

really

> stinks i feel worse when i eat flushing..fluid retention..dry

> skin ..lightheadedness dizzy and more please can someone give some

> insight to this

>

>

> Leland

[Guest guest]

I think you are very hypo right now and need to up your thyroid

replacement hormone. How much are you taking at the moment? I am

hyper-gone-hypo myself in the last few years and I find that it

helps a lot to adjust the nutional side of things. Are you taking

any meds?

> > well i tell ya tsh 2.035 and t4 9.4 i have a low body temp the

lowest

> its

> > been is 95.9 to 97.2and i am cold all the time been trying to

get

> help but i am feel miserable damn drs,,, i feel alot anxiety in my

> lower stomah i dont know really how to explan it i have puffy eye

lids

> feel my thyroid swellin jittery alot. skin rashes virtical lines

on my

> finder nails..very constapated that laxatives dont work my urin

really

> stinks i feel worse when i eat flushing..fluid retention..dry

> skin ..lightheadedness dizzy and more please can someone give some

> insight to this

>

>

> Leland

[Guest guest]

I have two questions:

I am up to 4.5 grains since starting in July with Armour. I think this is my optimal dose, since I tried 5, and got very shaky, etc. I have lost 18 lbs since then also. My first question is, I had a very low iron count in Jan. I have been taking an iron supplement since then. I have read that when your iron is low, the T4 does not get used like it should. When your iron, gets back to a normal range, is it then possible that you need less Armour, since its is then being ulitized better?

Second question:

I keep reading not to take your meds before a blood draw, that it will give you a false reading.

But is it not better to know how your body is actually doing on the dosage you are taking. If I didn't take my Armour before my draw, would my results be inaccurate. I would think that if I was on 4.5 grains, and did my blood draw with meds, it would give me a better idea, if I needed more T4 or T3, or less.

Thanks in advance

Carol

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[Guest guest]

I have two questions:

I am up to 4.5 grains since starting in July with Armour. I think this is my optimal dose, since I tried 5, and got very shaky, etc. I have lost 18 lbs since then also. My first question is, I had a very low iron count in Jan. I have been taking an iron supplement since then. I have read that when your iron is low, the T4 does not get used like it should. When your iron, gets back to a normal range, is it then possible that you need less Armour, since its is then being ulitized better?

Second question:

I keep reading not to take your meds before a blood draw, that it will give you a false reading.

But is it not better to know how your body is actually doing on the dosage you are taking. If I didn't take my Armour before my draw, would my results be inaccurate. I would think that if I was on 4.5 grains, and did my blood draw with meds, it would give me a better idea, if I needed more T4 or T3, or less.

Thanks in advance

Carol

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[Guest guest]

Can't answer the first question.... exactly.... having better iron levels will mean body processes in general work better.. but I can't say if higher iron levels make thyroid hormones work better, specifically....

The second question I'll jump in on...

If you take your meds before the draw you will get a reading that shows all the extra hormone that is in the blood because of the dose of meds. Now, if you want to exist/function/live only on what you give your body at a given time, that's good....

BUT

By not taking your meds before the draw the results will be of the hormone that has built up in your system from the dosing over the weeks/months past. It's going to show how well your body is using it's stored T4 and converting it to T3. If you have to depend solely on what you are taking you end up multi-dosing, like me, every 3 hours... and that is NOT fun. If your body is able to make enough hormone on it's own (T4 to T3 conversion) then you will be able to function in a healthy manner without having to dose every few hours.

The only way to know how well your body is converting is to see what it's doing without a fresh dose of meds in it.

Normally the Thyroid produces mostly T4, with small amounts of T3, etc.... That T4 is stored in the tissues where it waits until the body needs to convert it. 80% of the T3 hormone that the body uses comes from conversion (in the 'normal' person). A person that is taking a T4 only med (like Synthroid, Levothyroxine, etc) has to make 100 % of the T3 their body needs. A person that is taking Cytomel (synthetic T3) in addition still needs the body to be able to convert the T3 into T2, as needed, and T2 into T1, as needed... again. The only way to get an idea if your body is able to do this is to draw blood before dosing.

A person that is taking Natural thyroid (Armour, Thyroid-S, etc) is getting all the thyroid hormones, and is even getting a higher percentage of T3 than would normally be produced by they thyroid gland... but still not enough T3 for proper function.. the body still has to convert T4 into active hormone.

With the info that you get from the labs, without having taken meds before, you can get a picture of how your body is converting.. by comparing where the level of the Free T4 is in it's range against where the Free T3 level is in it's range.

If the Free T3 is the same (in it's range) as the Free T4 is (in it's range), conversion is not good. If the T3 is lower than the T4, conversion sucks. Most folks, not all.. but a LOT, find that they are feeling best with the Free T4 at mid range, or slightly over, and the Free T3 at the top of it's range, or slightly over.

Keeping in mind that T4 is the storage hormone, tucked away throughout the body so that when the body does need more active hormone it's there to convert, the ideal situation would seem to be having good stores of T4 with adequate conversion.

If you don't have enough T4 storage/saturation, you will not have the 'raw material' to produce the amount of T3 to feel well.

There are all kinds of subtleties beyond this...

some folks do fine with T4 only.. they are able to convert T3 in sufficient quantities to feel well...

others need T3 added to that.. some of them need it in one larger dose, to saturate the T3 receptors and then their conversion is able to keep it up from there... Some, like me, need smaller doses of T3 (during the day, a trickle dose, if you will.) It seems for us the direct T3 handles 'major' functions and our struggling conversion then only deals with the minor stuff.

To me it seems to be logical that you want to see what your body is doing with the accumulated stores of T4 in the system, how well the dose that you are taking has built up that reserve and then how well your body is converting.

Does that make it easier to visualize?

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Carol writes:

I have two questions:

I am up to 4.5 grains since starting in July with Armour. I think this is my optimal dose, since I tried 5, and got very shaky, etc. I have lost 18 lbs since then also. My first question is, I had a very low iron count in Jan. I have been taking an iron supplement since then. I have read that when your iron is low, the T4 does not get used like it should. When your iron, gets back to a normal range, is it then possible that you need less Armour, since its is then being ulitized better?

Second question:

I keep reading not to take your meds before a blood draw, that it will give you a false reading.

But is it not better to know how your body is actually doing on the dosage you are taking. If I didn't take my Armour before my draw, would my results be inaccurate. I would think that if I was on 4.5 grains, and did my blood draw with meds, it would give me a better idea, if I needed more T4 or T3, or less.

Thanks in advance

Carol

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much.....it does make sense now.

Caroltopper2@... wrote:

Can't answer the first question.... exactly.... having better iron levels will mean body processes in general work better.. but I can't say if higher iron levels make thyroid hormones work better, specifically....

The second question I'll jump in on...

If you take your meds before the draw you will get a reading that shows all the extra hormone that is in the blood because of the dose of meds. Now, if you want to exist/function/live only on what you give your body at a given time, that's good....

BUT

By not taking your meds before the draw the results will be of the hormone that has built up in your system from the dosing over the weeks/months past. It's going to show how well your body is using it's stored T4 and converting it to T3. If you have to depend solely on what you are taking you end up multi-dosing, like me, every 3 hours... and that is NOT fun. If your body is able to make enough hormone on it's own (T4 to T3 conversion) then you will be able to function in a healthy manner without having to dose every few hours.

The only way to know how well your body is converting is to see what it's doing without a fresh dose of meds in it.

Normally the Thyroid produces mostly T4, with small amounts of T3, etc.... That T4 is stored in the tissues where it waits until the body needs to convert it. 80% of the T3 hormone that the body uses comes from conversion (in the 'normal' person). A person that is taking a T4 only med (like Synthroid, Levothyroxine, etc) has to make 100 % of the T3 their body needs. A person that is taking Cytomel (synthetic T3) in addition still needs the body to be able to convert the T3 into T2, as needed, and T2 into T1, as needed... again. The only way to get an idea if your body is able to do this is to draw blood before dosing.

A person that is taking Natural thyroid (Armour, Thyroid-S, etc) is getting all the thyroid hormones, and is even getting a higher percentage of T3 than would normally be produced by they thyroid gland... but still not enough T3 for proper function.. the body still has to convert T4 into active hormone.

With the info that you get from the labs, without having taken meds before, you can get a picture of how your body is converting.. by comparing where the level of the Free T4 is in it's range against where the Free T3 level is in it's range.

If the Free T3 is the same (in it's range) as the Free T4 is (in it's range), conversion is not good. If the T3 is lower than the T4, conversion sucks. Most folks, not all.. but a LOT, find that they are feeling best with the Free T4 at mid range, or slightly over, and the Free T3 at the top of it's range, or slightly over.

Keeping in mind that T4 is the storage hormone, tucked away throughout the body so that when the body does need more active hormone it's there to convert, the ideal situation would seem to be having good stores of T4 with adequate conversion.

If you don't have enough T4 storage/saturation, you will not have the 'raw material' to produce the amount of T3 to feel well.

There are all kinds of subtleties beyond this...

some folks do fine with T4 only.. they are able to convert T3 in sufficient quantities to feel well...

others need T3 added to that.. some of them need it in one larger dose, to saturate the T3 receptors and then their conversion is able to keep it up from there... Some, like me, need smaller doses of T3 (during the day, a trickle dose, if you will.) It seems for us the direct T3 handles 'major' functions and our struggling conversion then only deals with the minor stuff.

To me it seems to be logical that you want to see what your body is doing with the accumulated stores of T4 in the system, how well the dose that you are taking has built up that reserve and then how well your body is converting.

Does that make it easier to visualize?

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Carol writes:

I have two questions:

I am up to 4.5 grains since starting in July with Armour. I think this is my optimal dose, since I tried 5, and got very shaky, etc. I have lost 18 lbs since then also. My first question is, I had a very low iron count in Jan. I have been taking an iron supplement since then. I have read that when your iron is low, the T4 does not get used like it should. When your iron, gets back to a normal range, is it then possible that you need less Armour, since its is then being ulitized better?

Second question:

I keep reading not to take your meds before a blood draw, that it will give you a false reading.

But is it not better to know how your body is actually doing on the dosage you are taking. If I didn't take my Armour before my draw, would my results be inaccurate. I would think that if I was on 4.5 grains, and did my blood draw with meds, it would give me a better idea, if I needed more T4 or T3, or less.

Thanks in advance

Carol

Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.