Re: Strangeness: Armour + compounded TR T3

[Guest guest]

I just thought of something.... Deborah, the days that you are having the blood draws, are you taking the TR T3 the morning of the tests? It could be that your tests are reading a false high from that, that if you were to skip that dose before the blood draw you're gonna get a better idea of what is going on in your system without that slow trickle from the TR...

.... just a thought....

Topper ()

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi Deborah --Hmmm, that is very confusing. I do have one thoughtthough. Although I have had an ok experience withcompounded TR T3, I have read that Dr Lowe'sexperience with TR T3 is like yours -- that he and hispatients hardly felt anything at all and he wonders ifthere is anything really in it. He also says thatbecause it releases small amounts of the T3 throughoutthe day, it fails to fill up the receptors and createwaves of an affect, like plain T3 does. Since you haveresponded well to Armour which contains plain T3,maybe you need to add more plain T3 like cytomel. Alsoif you get your free's tested than we'll be able tosee how your levels are and if you need more T4 aswell. Or it could be the particular compoundingpharmacy. My doctor uses Belmar pharmacy and I've feltthe effects of the TR T3 (but I'm a strange case andprobably best to not be compared to : ) ...). Also,although the affects of T3 are said to be felt rightaway, I personally believe that it takes some time ...let us know if you figure anything out!Marlena

[Guest guest]

I just thought of something.... Deborah, the days that you are having the blood draws, are you taking the TR T3 the morning of the tests? It could be that your tests are reading a false high from that, that if you were to skip that dose before the blood draw you're gonna get a better idea of what is going on in your system without that slow trickle from the TR...

.... just a thought....

Topper ()

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi Deborah --Hmmm, that is very confusing. I do have one thoughtthough. Although I have had an ok experience withcompounded TR T3, I have read that Dr Lowe'sexperience with TR T3 is like yours -- that he and hispatients hardly felt anything at all and he wonders ifthere is anything really in it. He also says thatbecause it releases small amounts of the T3 throughoutthe day, it fails to fill up the receptors and createwaves of an affect, like plain T3 does. Since you haveresponded well to Armour which contains plain T3,maybe you need to add more plain T3 like cytomel. Alsoif you get your free's tested than we'll be able tosee how your levels are and if you need more T4 aswell. Or it could be the particular compoundingpharmacy. My doctor uses Belmar pharmacy and I've feltthe effects of the TR T3 (but I'm a strange case andprobably best to not be compared to : ) ...). Also,although the affects of T3 are said to be felt rightaway, I personally believe that it takes some time ...let us know if you figure anything out!Marlena

[Guest guest]

I just thought of something.... Deborah, the days that you are having the blood draws, are you taking the TR T3 the morning of the tests? It could be that your tests are reading a false high from that, that if you were to skip that dose before the blood draw you're gonna get a better idea of what is going on in your system without that slow trickle from the TR...

.... just a thought....

Topper ()

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi Deborah --Hmmm, that is very confusing. I do have one thoughtthough. Although I have had an ok experience withcompounded TR T3, I have read that Dr Lowe'sexperience with TR T3 is like yours -- that he and hispatients hardly felt anything at all and he wonders ifthere is anything really in it. He also says thatbecause it releases small amounts of the T3 throughoutthe day, it fails to fill up the receptors and createwaves of an affect, like plain T3 does. Since you haveresponded well to Armour which contains plain T3,maybe you need to add more plain T3 like cytomel. Alsoif you get your free's tested than we'll be able tosee how your levels are and if you need more T4 aswell. Or it could be the particular compoundingpharmacy. My doctor uses Belmar pharmacy and I've feltthe effects of the TR T3 (but I'm a strange case andprobably best to not be compared to : ) ...). Also,although the affects of T3 are said to be felt rightaway, I personally believe that it takes some time ...let us know if you figure anything out!Marlena

[Guest guest]

It's something I'd like to understand better myself, Marlena.... How some folks need the receptors filled first, then their conversion kinda keeps up with it after that... and others never have enough conversion to keep up.... so if they (I) multidose my major needs for T3 are better served and the limited conversion takes care of the periphery.... they go into it in the Thyroid Manager... I need to take some time and do more reading there... I just downloaded it again and found that several of the chapters were updated since the last time I did. (I'm a geek, I download the individual chapters to my computer so I can read them off line on any of my machines, I'm not limited to only being able to read online).

I've been trying hard to figure me out. Some theories say that long term low hormone levels can damage hormone receptors, causing a person to need a higher saturation of hormone in the blood to get the receptors filled. Others say that if one set of receptors is bad it's likely that others may be bad. I have bad TSH receptors, that's what caused me to go hyper and eventually into storm. Some say that receptor saturation with a single dose fills up all the receptors so that limited conversion allows what is made to just float around until it fills a receptor that has become empty, it's hormone used up. Some say that if you fill all the receptors up then there is no stimulus to convert more T4 to T3 so you will have no conversion and crash when the T3 you took is used up....

How do we know which is true, or if they are all true be not for everyone, that it's an individual thing as to how your body reacts?

Why do some do good on T4 only and convert just fine? Why do others decline for years and then spring back after switching to natural?

I don't know if we'll ever find out, the manufactures have no reason to figure it out... Naturals sell fine with word of mouth advertising, no need to promote sales, and the synthetics depend on saturation promotion with claims that it's the best thing next to sliced bread - just one pill a day and you'll be just like new!

Which we could find out the truth.... What if we could be tested to see which med we need, synthetic or natural, another test to see, once and for all, if we have sufficient conversion? It would be cool.

I've spent three years with charts and journals and self observation and sharing my observation here and still don't have a decent grasp of how it really works.

I wish I could understand me.... why do I need to mulitdose? Why do I crash if I miss a dose? Arrrggghhhhhhhh tooo many questions!!!

I even replaced my first morning dose of natural with a combo of T4 and T3... and even though I stuck to that regime for a full 96 day dosing cycle I just didn't like it.... I wasn't coming to life until after my first natural dose of the morning 2 1/2 hours later. Now I'm back to natural with my first dose, not taking direct T3 for now.... and I'm back to being up and alert right away.

I'm even taking less T3 in the natural dose than I was taking as direct T3. I tried it swallowing first, then it was suggested that T3 can be taken sublingually so I tried that too, no difference to me, it was like I wasn't taking anything....

Is this a genetic quirk for me? Do others have the same reaction? Is it from having had RAI? Is if from more than a decade of being underdosed? Does it have anything to do with being hyper for so many years? Or does it have to do with having been in thyroid storm for so long before I found a doc that knew how to be a doc?

Will we ever know how it all works? Not just for me, but for everyone..... why do some really need a large single dose and why do others crash a few hours later?

One of the mysteries of life?

I'll keep experimenting... It's been, oh, a couple of times a year that I try to reduce dose frequency, usually once in the summer and once in the winter, in case it's climate affected. This last I just had to patience with. I hate falling asleep in the middle of something. One time Ruth walked in on me, I didn't hear her knock on the door, or open it or even her calling my name the first few times... I was out cold, sitting up in a chair... I even fell asleep sitting up at the keyboard with my hand on the mouse, holding down the mouse button. As I came to I released the click and shut the program I was in.... I feel asleep between the time I finished what I was doing and pointing the mouse to close the program. My show had just started.... and I was waking a bit before it ended.... I was out nearly a whole hour!

I don't do that when I take my doses regularly... I'm alert all day.....

Maybe I'm just really weird!!! ??? heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Ok, sorry to create more debate, but I just have toadd one thing here! I'm not speaking as an authorityon the subject -- just something that I've read aboutand heard from Dr Lowe ... From my understanding, it'snot the conversion that people are dependent on afterone dose of T3, but supposedly it fills up thereceptor sites and creates waves of reactionthroughout the body, not conversion -- because this isreferring to people who take plain T3 only without anyT4. They don't have T4 to be converted ... Of course Icompletely understand that this doesn't work for somepeople -- as you have mentioned many times Topper, andI wholeheartedly believe that! But apparently, forothers, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)does the trick for them. And these are severelyhypometabolic people who get cured this way! Justwanted to add another perspective : )Marlena

[Guest guest]

It's something I'd like to understand better myself, Marlena.... How some folks need the receptors filled first, then their conversion kinda keeps up with it after that... and others never have enough conversion to keep up.... so if they (I) multidose my major needs for T3 are better served and the limited conversion takes care of the periphery.... they go into it in the Thyroid Manager... I need to take some time and do more reading there... I just downloaded it again and found that several of the chapters were updated since the last time I did. (I'm a geek, I download the individual chapters to my computer so I can read them off line on any of my machines, I'm not limited to only being able to read online).

I've been trying hard to figure me out. Some theories say that long term low hormone levels can damage hormone receptors, causing a person to need a higher saturation of hormone in the blood to get the receptors filled. Others say that if one set of receptors is bad it's likely that others may be bad. I have bad TSH receptors, that's what caused me to go hyper and eventually into storm. Some say that receptor saturation with a single dose fills up all the receptors so that limited conversion allows what is made to just float around until it fills a receptor that has become empty, it's hormone used up. Some say that if you fill all the receptors up then there is no stimulus to convert more T4 to T3 so you will have no conversion and crash when the T3 you took is used up....

How do we know which is true, or if they are all true be not for everyone, that it's an individual thing as to how your body reacts?

Why do some do good on T4 only and convert just fine? Why do others decline for years and then spring back after switching to natural?

I don't know if we'll ever find out, the manufactures have no reason to figure it out... Naturals sell fine with word of mouth advertising, no need to promote sales, and the synthetics depend on saturation promotion with claims that it's the best thing next to sliced bread - just one pill a day and you'll be just like new!

Which we could find out the truth.... What if we could be tested to see which med we need, synthetic or natural, another test to see, once and for all, if we have sufficient conversion? It would be cool.

I've spent three years with charts and journals and self observation and sharing my observation here and still don't have a decent grasp of how it really works.

I wish I could understand me.... why do I need to mulitdose? Why do I crash if I miss a dose? Arrrggghhhhhhhh tooo many questions!!!

I even replaced my first morning dose of natural with a combo of T4 and T3... and even though I stuck to that regime for a full 96 day dosing cycle I just didn't like it.... I wasn't coming to life until after my first natural dose of the morning 2 1/2 hours later. Now I'm back to natural with my first dose, not taking direct T3 for now.... and I'm back to being up and alert right away.

I'm even taking less T3 in the natural dose than I was taking as direct T3. I tried it swallowing first, then it was suggested that T3 can be taken sublingually so I tried that too, no difference to me, it was like I wasn't taking anything....

Is this a genetic quirk for me? Do others have the same reaction? Is it from having had RAI? Is if from more than a decade of being underdosed? Does it have anything to do with being hyper for so many years? Or does it have to do with having been in thyroid storm for so long before I found a doc that knew how to be a doc?

Will we ever know how it all works? Not just for me, but for everyone..... why do some really need a large single dose and why do others crash a few hours later?

One of the mysteries of life?

I'll keep experimenting... It's been, oh, a couple of times a year that I try to reduce dose frequency, usually once in the summer and once in the winter, in case it's climate affected. This last I just had to patience with. I hate falling asleep in the middle of something. One time Ruth walked in on me, I didn't hear her knock on the door, or open it or even her calling my name the first few times... I was out cold, sitting up in a chair... I even fell asleep sitting up at the keyboard with my hand on the mouse, holding down the mouse button. As I came to I released the click and shut the program I was in.... I feel asleep between the time I finished what I was doing and pointing the mouse to close the program. My show had just started.... and I was waking a bit before it ended.... I was out nearly a whole hour!

I don't do that when I take my doses regularly... I'm alert all day.....

Maybe I'm just really weird!!! ??? heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Ok, sorry to create more debate, but I just have toadd one thing here! I'm not speaking as an authorityon the subject -- just something that I've read aboutand heard from Dr Lowe ... From my understanding, it'snot the conversion that people are dependent on afterone dose of T3, but supposedly it fills up thereceptor sites and creates waves of reactionthroughout the body, not conversion -- because this isreferring to people who take plain T3 only without anyT4. They don't have T4 to be converted ... Of course Icompletely understand that this doesn't work for somepeople -- as you have mentioned many times Topper, andI wholeheartedly believe that! But apparently, forothers, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)does the trick for them. And these are severelyhypometabolic people who get cured this way! Justwanted to add another perspective : )Marlena

[Guest guest]

It's something I'd like to understand better myself, Marlena.... How some folks need the receptors filled first, then their conversion kinda keeps up with it after that... and others never have enough conversion to keep up.... so if they (I) multidose my major needs for T3 are better served and the limited conversion takes care of the periphery.... they go into it in the Thyroid Manager... I need to take some time and do more reading there... I just downloaded it again and found that several of the chapters were updated since the last time I did. (I'm a geek, I download the individual chapters to my computer so I can read them off line on any of my machines, I'm not limited to only being able to read online).

I've been trying hard to figure me out. Some theories say that long term low hormone levels can damage hormone receptors, causing a person to need a higher saturation of hormone in the blood to get the receptors filled. Others say that if one set of receptors is bad it's likely that others may be bad. I have bad TSH receptors, that's what caused me to go hyper and eventually into storm. Some say that receptor saturation with a single dose fills up all the receptors so that limited conversion allows what is made to just float around until it fills a receptor that has become empty, it's hormone used up. Some say that if you fill all the receptors up then there is no stimulus to convert more T4 to T3 so you will have no conversion and crash when the T3 you took is used up....

How do we know which is true, or if they are all true be not for everyone, that it's an individual thing as to how your body reacts?

Why do some do good on T4 only and convert just fine? Why do others decline for years and then spring back after switching to natural?

I don't know if we'll ever find out, the manufactures have no reason to figure it out... Naturals sell fine with word of mouth advertising, no need to promote sales, and the synthetics depend on saturation promotion with claims that it's the best thing next to sliced bread - just one pill a day and you'll be just like new!

Which we could find out the truth.... What if we could be tested to see which med we need, synthetic or natural, another test to see, once and for all, if we have sufficient conversion? It would be cool.

I've spent three years with charts and journals and self observation and sharing my observation here and still don't have a decent grasp of how it really works.

I wish I could understand me.... why do I need to mulitdose? Why do I crash if I miss a dose? Arrrggghhhhhhhh tooo many questions!!!

I even replaced my first morning dose of natural with a combo of T4 and T3... and even though I stuck to that regime for a full 96 day dosing cycle I just didn't like it.... I wasn't coming to life until after my first natural dose of the morning 2 1/2 hours later. Now I'm back to natural with my first dose, not taking direct T3 for now.... and I'm back to being up and alert right away.

I'm even taking less T3 in the natural dose than I was taking as direct T3. I tried it swallowing first, then it was suggested that T3 can be taken sublingually so I tried that too, no difference to me, it was like I wasn't taking anything....

Is this a genetic quirk for me? Do others have the same reaction? Is it from having had RAI? Is if from more than a decade of being underdosed? Does it have anything to do with being hyper for so many years? Or does it have to do with having been in thyroid storm for so long before I found a doc that knew how to be a doc?

Will we ever know how it all works? Not just for me, but for everyone..... why do some really need a large single dose and why do others crash a few hours later?

One of the mysteries of life?

I'll keep experimenting... It's been, oh, a couple of times a year that I try to reduce dose frequency, usually once in the summer and once in the winter, in case it's climate affected. This last I just had to patience with. I hate falling asleep in the middle of something. One time Ruth walked in on me, I didn't hear her knock on the door, or open it or even her calling my name the first few times... I was out cold, sitting up in a chair... I even fell asleep sitting up at the keyboard with my hand on the mouse, holding down the mouse button. As I came to I released the click and shut the program I was in.... I feel asleep between the time I finished what I was doing and pointing the mouse to close the program. My show had just started.... and I was waking a bit before it ended.... I was out nearly a whole hour!

I don't do that when I take my doses regularly... I'm alert all day.....

Maybe I'm just really weird!!! ??? heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Ok, sorry to create more debate, but I just have toadd one thing here! I'm not speaking as an authorityon the subject -- just something that I've read aboutand heard from Dr Lowe ... From my understanding, it'snot the conversion that people are dependent on afterone dose of T3, but supposedly it fills up thereceptor sites and creates waves of reactionthroughout the body, not conversion -- because this isreferring to people who take plain T3 only without anyT4. They don't have T4 to be converted ... Of course Icompletely understand that this doesn't work for somepeople -- as you have mentioned many times Topper, andI wholeheartedly believe that! But apparently, forothers, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)does the trick for them. And these are severelyhypometabolic people who get cured this way! Justwanted to add another perspective : )Marlena

[Guest guest]

> Yeah, I know--T/R is subject to digestive efficiency. And on

10mcg, it

> seemed to be gone in 6 hours, but 25mcg doesn't seem to be doing

> anything at all. That's weird. It shouldn't be that hard to

break down

> a gelatin capsule, I wouldn't think--and why for the second bottle

but

> not the first?

>

> Since 1grain Armour is 38-T4 and 9-T3, and 1-T3 is approximately

equal

> to 4-T4, 1 grain of Armour would be the approximate equivalent of

> 74mcg-T4, so 10 mcg. T3 would be less than 1/2 grain Armour, and

25 mgc.

> T3 would be about 1-1/3 grain.

>

> The way the theory goes, flooding the system with pure T3 is

supposed to

> clear out rT3 from the cell receptors. I had it tested (along

with LOTS

> of other stuff--35 vials worth!), but the results aren't back

yet. He

> prescribed based on symptoms and the fact that he sees high rT3

quite

> often. It makes some kind of sense to me that it should do that,

which

> is why I agreed to give it a shot.

>

> I've been increasing my Armour based on symptoms and time for

several

> months now, but this has added more complication than I

anticipated.

> Now I have to go PURELY on symptoms, and pay CLOSE attention to my

> body. I started sneezing more in the last week, but silly me

attributed

> it to the season when it's always been worst, instead of realizing

that

> it was related to lowering my thyroid dose. I wonder if T1 & T2

play

> more of a role in allergies than we think? But my temp has

dropped back

> down, too.

>

> Thanks for the thoughts! Doctors are OFTEN wrong, as we all know

only

> too well. Isn't that why we're here? :-)

>

> Deborah

>

>But how is lowering your Armour T4 and T3 and replacing it with T3

flooding your system with T3? Would it not make sense to just add

the T3?

[Guest guest]

Thanks, --but NONE of my treatment is based on tests at this

point. I didn't start the T3 until after that appointment, and took my

last thyroid-s by 5:00 the afternoon before--which was NOT conducive to

a good night's sleep! I do best with a full grain within a couple of

hours of bedtime.

Since my nincomdoctorpoop refused to increase me from 1/2 grain in

April, I've been going purely by symptoms (including temp, basal and

daytime) and consultation at NaturalThyroidHormones--they've been

great! But with this TR T3 thing, I have yet to find anyone who is much

less kerfuzzled than I am.

Deborah

topper2@... wrote:

> I just thought of something.... Deborah, the days that you are having

> the blood draws, are you taking the TR T3 the morning of the tests? It

> could be that your tests are reading a false high from that, that if

> you were to skip that dose before the blood draw you're gonna get a

> better idea of what is going on in your system without that slow

> trickle from the TR...

>

> ... just a thought....

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

Thanks, --but NONE of my treatment is based on tests at this

point. I didn't start the T3 until after that appointment, and took my

last thyroid-s by 5:00 the afternoon before--which was NOT conducive to

a good night's sleep! I do best with a full grain within a couple of

hours of bedtime.

Since my nincomdoctorpoop refused to increase me from 1/2 grain in

April, I've been going purely by symptoms (including temp, basal and

daytime) and consultation at NaturalThyroidHormones--they've been

great! But with this TR T3 thing, I have yet to find anyone who is much

less kerfuzzled than I am.

Deborah

topper2@... wrote:

> I just thought of something.... Deborah, the days that you are having

> the blood draws, are you taking the TR T3 the morning of the tests? It

> could be that your tests are reading a false high from that, that if

> you were to skip that dose before the blood draw you're gonna get a

> better idea of what is going on in your system without that slow

> trickle from the TR...

>

> ... just a thought....

>

> Topper ()

[Guest guest]

That's why I increased the vitamin C so much--in case it's part

adrenal. Other than a little sneezing this morning, it's cleared up--so

definitely thyroid, probably some adrenal as well

Deborah

wrote:

> Can't say what it is for sure, but allergy reactions have their own

> brand of

> tiredness and malaise too. Allergies are known to cause brain fog,

> sleepiness, and the like. Then again, you COULD need more thyroid,

> but I'd

> still test for a ball park figure, as you're really not that sure what

> you're dealing with here. The allergies hammering on your adrenal glands,

> maybe?

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's why I increased the vitamin C so much--in case it's part

adrenal. Other than a little sneezing this morning, it's cleared up--so

definitely thyroid, probably some adrenal as well

Deborah

wrote:

> Can't say what it is for sure, but allergy reactions have their own

> brand of

> tiredness and malaise too. Allergies are known to cause brain fog,

> sleepiness, and the like. Then again, you COULD need more thyroid,

> but I'd

> still test for a ball park figure, as you're really not that sure what

> you're dealing with here. The allergies hammering on your adrenal glands,

> maybe?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Definitely! But I'll try 3 grains tomorrow and see about holding that

with the 37.5mcg & see how it goes. I'm doing better today, after 2

days of 4 grains & 3-1/2 today, but for general purposes I think it's

just a titch high.

Deborah

topper2@... wrote:

> Let's see what the new dose does before you make any changes, not a

> good idea to have too many variables in the mix at one time, you don't

> know what it is that you did that helped.

[Guest guest]

Definitely! But I'll try 3 grains tomorrow and see about holding that

with the 37.5mcg & see how it goes. I'm doing better today, after 2

days of 4 grains & 3-1/2 today, but for general purposes I think it's

just a titch high.

Deborah

topper2@... wrote:

> Let's see what the new dose does before you make any changes, not a

> good idea to have too many variables in the mix at one time, you don't

> know what it is that you did that helped.

[Guest guest]

Definitely! But I'll try 3 grains tomorrow and see about holding that

with the 37.5mcg & see how it goes. I'm doing better today, after 2

days of 4 grains & 3-1/2 today, but for general purposes I think it's

just a titch high.

Deborah

topper2@... wrote:

> Let's see what the new dose does before you make any changes, not a

> good idea to have too many variables in the mix at one time, you don't

> know what it is that you did that helped.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts, Marlena. I'll keep going with this regimen &

see what comes out on the other side. If it doesn't do much of

anything, at least I'll know it. I don't intend to add T3 on the side

until I'm sure that I'm as optimized as I can get on the armour

alone--it'll probably be fine, but I'll add if I need to. Since I felt

such a difference with Armour vs. T3/T4 combo, I think I'm needing the

other T's pretty badly, too.

Deborah

Marlena wrote:

> Hi Deborah --

> Hmmm, that is very confusing. I do have one thought

> though. Although I have had an ok experience with

> compounded TR T3, I have read that Dr Lowe's

> experience with TR T3 is like yours -- that he and his

> patients hardly felt anything at all and he wonders if

> there is anything really in it. He also says that

> because it releases small amounts of the T3 throughout

> the day, it fails to fill up the receptors and create

> waves of an affect, like plain T3 does. Since you have

> responded well to Armour which contains plain T3,

> maybe you need to add more plain T3 like cytomel. Also

> if you get your free's tested than we'll be able to

> see how your levels are and if you need more T4 as

> well. Or it could be the particular compounding

> pharmacy. My doctor uses Belmar pharmacy and I've felt

> the effects of the TR T3 (but I'm a strange case and

> probably best to not be compared to : ) ...). Also,

> although the affects of T3 are said to be felt right

> away, I personally believe that it takes some time ...

> let us know if you figure anything out!

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts, Marlena. I'll keep going with this regimen &

see what comes out on the other side. If it doesn't do much of

anything, at least I'll know it. I don't intend to add T3 on the side

until I'm sure that I'm as optimized as I can get on the armour

alone--it'll probably be fine, but I'll add if I need to. Since I felt

such a difference with Armour vs. T3/T4 combo, I think I'm needing the

other T's pretty badly, too.

Deborah

Marlena wrote:

> Hi Deborah --

> Hmmm, that is very confusing. I do have one thought

> though. Although I have had an ok experience with

> compounded TR T3, I have read that Dr Lowe's

> experience with TR T3 is like yours -- that he and his

> patients hardly felt anything at all and he wonders if

> there is anything really in it. He also says that

> because it releases small amounts of the T3 throughout

> the day, it fails to fill up the receptors and create

> waves of an affect, like plain T3 does. Since you have

> responded well to Armour which contains plain T3,

> maybe you need to add more plain T3 like cytomel. Also

> if you get your free's tested than we'll be able to

> see how your levels are and if you need more T4 as

> well. Or it could be the particular compounding

> pharmacy. My doctor uses Belmar pharmacy and I've felt

> the effects of the TR T3 (but I'm a strange case and

> probably best to not be compared to : ) ...). Also,

> although the affects of T3 are said to be felt right

> away, I personally believe that it takes some time ...

> let us know if you figure anything out!

[Guest guest]

I've read that, too--but haven't heard from any individual that it

actually worked for. Have you? Such confirmation would be great! I'm

not keeping my hopes real high, though.

Deborah

Marlena wrote:

> But apparently, for

> others, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)

> does the trick for them. And these are severely

> hypometabolic people who get cured this way! Just

> wanted to add another perspective : )

[Guest guest]

I've read that, too--but haven't heard from any individual that it

actually worked for. Have you? Such confirmation would be great! I'm

not keeping my hopes real high, though.

Deborah

Marlena wrote:

> But apparently, for

> others, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)

> does the trick for them. And these are severely

> hypometabolic people who get cured this way! Just

> wanted to add another perspective : )

[Guest guest]

I'm gonna head you over to talk to Fred. He's one that I know that is well versed in reverse T3. Run all this by him and see what comes out of his brain.....

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypothyroid

He's got a nasty problem with converting to reverse T3 rather than T3, to the point where he is mostly taking T3 with only a small amount of T4.

He might be able to help you fine tune better.

You can tell him that I sent you if you want..

Topper ()

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:10:12 -0400 Deborah Jacques writes:

Thanks, --but NONE of my treatment is based on tests at this point. I didn't start the T3 until after that appointment, and took my last thyroid-s by 5:00 the afternoon before--which was NOT conducive to a good night's sleep! I do best with a full grain within a couple of hours of bedtime.Since my nincomdoctorpoop refused to increase me from 1/2 grain in April, I've been going purely by symptoms (including temp, basal and daytime) and consultation at NaturalThyroidHormones--they've been great! But with this TR T3 thing, I have yet to find anyone who is much less kerfuzzled than I am.Deborah

[Guest guest]

I'm gonna head you over to talk to Fred. He's one that I know that is well versed in reverse T3. Run all this by him and see what comes out of his brain.....

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypothyroid

He's got a nasty problem with converting to reverse T3 rather than T3, to the point where he is mostly taking T3 with only a small amount of T4.

He might be able to help you fine tune better.

You can tell him that I sent you if you want..

Topper ()

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:10:12 -0400 Deborah Jacques writes:

Thanks, --but NONE of my treatment is based on tests at this point. I didn't start the T3 until after that appointment, and took my last thyroid-s by 5:00 the afternoon before--which was NOT conducive to a good night's sleep! I do best with a full grain within a couple of hours of bedtime.Since my nincomdoctorpoop refused to increase me from 1/2 grain in April, I've been going purely by symptoms (including temp, basal and daytime) and consultation at NaturalThyroidHormones--they've been great! But with this TR T3 thing, I have yet to find anyone who is much less kerfuzzled than I am.Deborah

[Guest guest]

Lowering my Armour reduces the T4 I'm taking, and increases the T3. If

I just add T3 without making adjustments--assuming that I'm absorbing &

using the T3, and that it's doing something besides clearing out

receptors, I'd go hyper in a hurry--from what everyone says about that,

I'd rather avoid it if at all possible.

Deborah

kats3boys wrote:

> But how is lowering your Armour T4 and T3 and replacing it with T3

> flooding your system with T3? Would it not make sense to just add

> the T3?

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Lowering my Armour reduces the T4 I'm taking, and increases the T3. If

I just add T3 without making adjustments--assuming that I'm absorbing &

using the T3, and that it's doing something besides clearing out

receptors, I'd go hyper in a hurry--from what everyone says about that,

I'd rather avoid it if at all possible.

Deborah

kats3boys wrote:

> But how is lowering your Armour T4 and T3 and replacing it with T3

> flooding your system with T3? Would it not make sense to just add

> the T3?

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

You're charting / journaling, right? So that you can look back and see what your body reactions were after you are making adjustments....

... not to harp but it's one of the best things we can do for ourselves as we figure this out for our individuality.

Topper ()

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:14:51 -0400 Deborah Jacques writes:

Definitely! But I'll try 3 grains tomorrow and see about holding that with the 37.5mcg & see how it goes. I'm doing better today, after 2 days of 4 grains & 3-1/2 today, but for general purposes I think it's just a titch high.Deborah

[Guest guest]

These are good questions Topper -- I wish I knew the

answers! I know that my body isn't responding the way

it " should " according to all the good theories by the

doctors I trust ... it's very frustrating -- in the

end our own hard evidence through trial and error

seems to be the most reliable ...

Marlena

--- topper2@... wrote:

> It's something I'd like to understand better myself,

> Marlena.... How some

> folks need the receptors filled first, then their

> conversion kinda keeps

> up with it after that... and others never have

> enough conversion to keep

> up.... so if they (I) multidose my major needs for

> T3 are better served

> and the limited conversion takes care of the

> periphery.... they go into

> it in the Thyroid Manager... I need to take some

> time and do more reading

> there... I just downloaded it again and found that

> several of the

> chapters were updated since the last time I did.

> (I'm a geek, I download

> the individual chapters to my computer so I can read

> them off line on any

> of my machines, I'm not limited to only being able

> to read online).

>

> I've been trying hard to figure me out. Some

> theories say that long term

> low hormone levels can damage hormone receptors,

> causing a person to need

> a higher saturation of hormone in the blood to get

> the receptors filled.

> Others say that if one set of receptors is bad it's

> likely that others

> may be bad. I have bad TSH receptors, that's what

> caused me to go hyper

> and eventually into storm. Some say that receptor

> saturation with a

> single dose fills up all the receptors so that

> limited conversion allows

> what is made to just float around until it fills a

> receptor that has

> become empty, it's hormone used up. Some say that if

> you fill all the

> receptors up then there is no stimulus to convert

> more T4 to T3 so you

> will have no conversion and crash when the T3 you

> took is used up....

>

> How do we know which is true, or if they are all

> true be not for

> everyone, that it's an individual thing as to how

> your body reacts?

>

> Why do some do good on T4 only and convert just

> fine? Why do others

> decline for years and then spring back after

> switching to natural?

>

> I don't know if we'll ever find out, the

> manufactures have no reason to

> figure it out... Naturals sell fine with word of

> mouth advertising, no

> need to promote sales, and the synthetics depend on

> saturation promotion

> with claims that it's the best thing next to sliced

> bread - just one pill

> a day and you'll be just like new!

>

> Which we could find out the truth.... What if we

> could be tested to see

> which med we need, synthetic or natural, another

> test to see, once and

> for all, if we have sufficient conversion? It would

> be cool.

>

> I've spent three years with charts and journals and

> self observation and

> sharing my observation here and still don't have a

> decent grasp of how it

> really works.

>

> I wish I could understand me.... why do I need to

> mulitdose? Why do I

> crash if I miss a dose? Arrrggghhhhhhhh tooo many

> questions!!!

>

> I even replaced my first morning dose of natural

> with a combo of T4 and

> T3... and even though I stuck to that regime for a

> full 96 day dosing

> cycle I just didn't like it.... I wasn't coming to

> life until after my

> first natural dose of the morning 2 1/2 hours later.

> Now I'm back to

> natural with my first dose, not taking direct T3 for

> now.... and I'm back

> to being up and alert right away.

>

> I'm even taking less T3 in the natural dose than I

> was taking as direct

> T3. I tried it swallowing first, then it was

> suggested that T3 can be

> taken sublingually so I tried that too, no

> difference to me, it was like

> I wasn't taking anything....

>

> Is this a genetic quirk for me? Do others have the

> same reaction? Is it

> from having had RAI? Is if from more than a decade

> of being underdosed?

> Does it have anything to do with being hyper for so

> many years? Or does

> it have to do with having been in thyroid storm for

> so long before I

> found a doc that knew how to be a doc?

>

> Will we ever know how it all works? Not just for me,

> but for

> everyone..... why do some really need a large single

> dose and why do

> others crash a few hours later?

>

> One of the mysteries of life?

>

> I'll keep experimenting... It's been, oh, a couple

> of times a year that I

> try to reduce dose frequency, usually once in the

> summer and once in the

> winter, in case it's climate affected. This last I

> just had to patience

> with. I hate falling asleep in the middle of

> something. One time Ruth

> walked in on me, I didn't hear her knock on the

> door, or open it or even

> her calling my name the first few times... I was out

> cold, sitting up in

> a chair... I even fell asleep sitting up at the

> keyboard with my hand on

> the mouse, holding down the mouse button. As I came

> to I released the

> click and shut the program I was in.... I feel

> asleep between the time I

> finished what I was doing and pointing the mouse to

> close the program. My

> show had just started.... and I was waking a bit

> before it ended.... I

> was out nearly a whole hour!

>

> I don't do that when I take my doses regularly...

> I'm alert all day.....

>

> Maybe I'm just really weird!!! ??? heheheheheh

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

>

> writes:

> Ok, sorry to create more debate, but I just have to

> add one thing here! I'm not speaking as an authority

> on the subject -- just something that I've read

> about

> and heard from Dr Lowe ... From my understanding,

> it's

> not the conversion that people are dependent on

> after

> one dose of T3, but supposedly it fills up the

> receptor sites and creates waves of reaction

> throughout the body, not conversion -- because this

> is

> referring to people who take plain T3 only without

> any

> T4. They don't have T4 to be converted ... Of course

> I

> completely understand that this doesn't work for

> some

> people -- as you have mentioned many times Topper,

> and

> I wholeheartedly believe that! But apparently, for

> others, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)

> does the trick for them. And these are severely

> hypometabolic people who get cured this way! Just

> wanted to add another perspective : )

>

> Marlena

______________________________________________________

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

[Guest guest]

These are good questions Topper -- I wish I knew the

answers! I know that my body isn't responding the way

it " should " according to all the good theories by the

doctors I trust ... it's very frustrating -- in the

end our own hard evidence through trial and error

seems to be the most reliable ...

Marlena

--- topper2@... wrote:

> It's something I'd like to understand better myself,

> Marlena.... How some

> folks need the receptors filled first, then their

> conversion kinda keeps

> up with it after that... and others never have

> enough conversion to keep

> up.... so if they (I) multidose my major needs for

> T3 are better served

> and the limited conversion takes care of the

> periphery.... they go into

> it in the Thyroid Manager... I need to take some

> time and do more reading

> there... I just downloaded it again and found that

> several of the

> chapters were updated since the last time I did.

> (I'm a geek, I download

> the individual chapters to my computer so I can read

> them off line on any

> of my machines, I'm not limited to only being able

> to read online).

>

> I've been trying hard to figure me out. Some

> theories say that long term

> low hormone levels can damage hormone receptors,

> causing a person to need

> a higher saturation of hormone in the blood to get

> the receptors filled.

> Others say that if one set of receptors is bad it's

> likely that others

> may be bad. I have bad TSH receptors, that's what

> caused me to go hyper

> and eventually into storm. Some say that receptor

> saturation with a

> single dose fills up all the receptors so that

> limited conversion allows

> what is made to just float around until it fills a

> receptor that has

> become empty, it's hormone used up. Some say that if

> you fill all the

> receptors up then there is no stimulus to convert

> more T4 to T3 so you

> will have no conversion and crash when the T3 you

> took is used up....

>

> How do we know which is true, or if they are all

> true be not for

> everyone, that it's an individual thing as to how

> your body reacts?

>

> Why do some do good on T4 only and convert just

> fine? Why do others

> decline for years and then spring back after

> switching to natural?

>

> I don't know if we'll ever find out, the

> manufactures have no reason to

> figure it out... Naturals sell fine with word of

> mouth advertising, no

> need to promote sales, and the synthetics depend on

> saturation promotion

> with claims that it's the best thing next to sliced

> bread - just one pill

> a day and you'll be just like new!

>

> Which we could find out the truth.... What if we

> could be tested to see

> which med we need, synthetic or natural, another

> test to see, once and

> for all, if we have sufficient conversion? It would

> be cool.

>

> I've spent three years with charts and journals and

> self observation and

> sharing my observation here and still don't have a

> decent grasp of how it

> really works.

>

> I wish I could understand me.... why do I need to

> mulitdose? Why do I

> crash if I miss a dose? Arrrggghhhhhhhh tooo many

> questions!!!

>

> I even replaced my first morning dose of natural

> with a combo of T4 and

> T3... and even though I stuck to that regime for a

> full 96 day dosing

> cycle I just didn't like it.... I wasn't coming to

> life until after my

> first natural dose of the morning 2 1/2 hours later.

> Now I'm back to

> natural with my first dose, not taking direct T3 for

> now.... and I'm back

> to being up and alert right away.

>

> I'm even taking less T3 in the natural dose than I

> was taking as direct

> T3. I tried it swallowing first, then it was

> suggested that T3 can be

> taken sublingually so I tried that too, no

> difference to me, it was like

> I wasn't taking anything....

>

> Is this a genetic quirk for me? Do others have the

> same reaction? Is it

> from having had RAI? Is if from more than a decade

> of being underdosed?

> Does it have anything to do with being hyper for so

> many years? Or does

> it have to do with having been in thyroid storm for

> so long before I

> found a doc that knew how to be a doc?

>

> Will we ever know how it all works? Not just for me,

> but for

> everyone..... why do some really need a large single

> dose and why do

> others crash a few hours later?

>

> One of the mysteries of life?

>

> I'll keep experimenting... It's been, oh, a couple

> of times a year that I

> try to reduce dose frequency, usually once in the

> summer and once in the

> winter, in case it's climate affected. This last I

> just had to patience

> with. I hate falling asleep in the middle of

> something. One time Ruth

> walked in on me, I didn't hear her knock on the

> door, or open it or even

> her calling my name the first few times... I was out

> cold, sitting up in

> a chair... I even fell asleep sitting up at the

> keyboard with my hand on

> the mouse, holding down the mouse button. As I came

> to I released the

> click and shut the program I was in.... I feel

> asleep between the time I

> finished what I was doing and pointing the mouse to

> close the program. My

> show had just started.... and I was waking a bit

> before it ended.... I

> was out nearly a whole hour!

>

> I don't do that when I take my doses regularly...

> I'm alert all day.....

>

> Maybe I'm just really weird!!! ??? heheheheheh

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

>

> writes:

> Ok, sorry to create more debate, but I just have to

> add one thing here! I'm not speaking as an authority

> on the subject -- just something that I've read

> about

> and heard from Dr Lowe ... From my understanding,

> it's

> not the conversion that people are dependent on

> after

> one dose of T3, but supposedly it fills up the

> receptor sites and creates waves of reaction

> throughout the body, not conversion -- because this

> is

> referring to people who take plain T3 only without

> any

> T4. They don't have T4 to be converted ... Of course

> I

> completely understand that this doesn't work for

> some

> people -- as you have mentioned many times Topper,

> and

> I wholeheartedly believe that! But apparently, for

> others, taking one dose of plain T3 (without any T4)

> does the trick for them. And these are severely

> hypometabolic people who get cured this way! Just

> wanted to add another perspective : )

>

> Marlena

______________________________________________________

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/