Re: You all were right - disappointed in doc

[Guest guest]

,

I think you did great at your doctors appointment. Many times I have gone in

with questions and wimped out....so pat yourself on the back for asking the

right questions!! I'm sorry that you got stonewalled and are now

disillusioned by the experience, but how you feel and your test results kind

of speak for themselves don't they?

PLEASE keep this convo online....we are all learning!

Take care,

Doris

[Guest guest]

,

I think you did great at your doctors appointment. Many times I have gone in

with questions and wimped out....so pat yourself on the back for asking the

right questions!! I'm sorry that you got stonewalled and are now

disillusioned by the experience, but how you feel and your test results kind

of speak for themselves don't they?

PLEASE keep this convo online....we are all learning!

Take care,

Doris

[Guest guest]

,

I think you did great at your doctors appointment. Many times I have gone in

with questions and wimped out....so pat yourself on the back for asking the

right questions!! I'm sorry that you got stonewalled and are now

disillusioned by the experience, but how you feel and your test results kind

of speak for themselves don't they?

PLEASE keep this convo online....we are all learning!

Take care,

Doris

[Guest guest]

,

This is all too common and has to do with how doctors were trained. When we

found tests to measure TSH, the TSH test became recommended for

screening...cheaper to do this test alone for screening new patients. Endos

were taught to rely on this test. A few years after its introduction, doctors

realized that for thyroid patients on therapy, the TSH isn't very good. This

is well known, but there's still many doctors out there who don't seem to

know this. They're so convinced of the infallibility of the TSH that they no

longer listen.

At least you kept your cool and got him to continue to monitor you. Sometimes

that's an accomplisment in itself so good work! Elaine

[Guest guest]

,

This is all too common and has to do with how doctors were trained. When we

found tests to measure TSH, the TSH test became recommended for

screening...cheaper to do this test alone for screening new patients. Endos

were taught to rely on this test. A few years after its introduction, doctors

realized that for thyroid patients on therapy, the TSH isn't very good. This

is well known, but there's still many doctors out there who don't seem to

know this. They're so convinced of the infallibility of the TSH that they no

longer listen.

At least you kept your cool and got him to continue to monitor you. Sometimes

that's an accomplisment in itself so good work! Elaine

[Guest guest]

,

This is all too common and has to do with how doctors were trained. When we

found tests to measure TSH, the TSH test became recommended for

screening...cheaper to do this test alone for screening new patients. Endos

were taught to rely on this test. A few years after its introduction, doctors

realized that for thyroid patients on therapy, the TSH isn't very good. This

is well known, but there's still many doctors out there who don't seem to

know this. They're so convinced of the infallibility of the TSH that they no

longer listen.

At least you kept your cool and got him to continue to monitor you. Sometimes

that's an accomplisment in itself so good work! Elaine

[Guest guest]

A co-workers son just graduated from medical school last year and is doing

his first year residency. I can not wait to ask him (the next time he

visits) what they taught him about this!!! Will definately report the

results here.

[Guest guest]

A co-workers son just graduated from medical school last year and is doing

his first year residency. I can not wait to ask him (the next time he

visits) what they taught him about this!!! Will definately report the

results here.

[Guest guest]

A co-workers son just graduated from medical school last year and is doing

his first year residency. I can not wait to ask him (the next time he

visits) what they taught him about this!!! Will definately report the

results here.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

There have been some articles on Graves' disease in Postgraduate Medicine in

the last few years that indicate things are changing, but individual training

probably still differs. There was a Continuing Ed conference last week on

thyroid autoantibodies hosted by Penn that I missed, but the topic alone

suggests that some people are realizing the value of these tests.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

There have been some articles on Graves' disease in Postgraduate Medicine in

the last few years that indicate things are changing, but individual training

probably still differs. There was a Continuing Ed conference last week on

thyroid autoantibodies hosted by Penn that I missed, but the topic alone

suggests that some people are realizing the value of these tests.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

There have been some articles on Graves' disease in Postgraduate Medicine in

the last few years that indicate things are changing, but individual training

probably still differs. There was a Continuing Ed conference last week on

thyroid autoantibodies hosted by Penn that I missed, but the topic alone

suggests that some people are realizing the value of these tests.

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Take heart! Remember you are on the right road to remission, even though

you have an incompetent doctor. You are still in the " good postion to

acheive remission " that you were before you saw the doctor.

If you are anything like I was in your position a year ago, you will be

feeling that it's just not fair to get a chronic illness that seems to be

related to stress, and then have the stress of " taking on " the medical

profession and having to fight them to get well!

The doctor is right that TSH is a sensitive tool for indicating thyroid

problems, but this is not the case once you are taking ATDs - I am not sure

of the delay mechanism either, but I will sit and think about it today

sometime and if I work it out or find the theory in a book I'll post it,

I'll definitely look it up in a book or two.

I thought your e-mail was really intelligent, enquiring and well informed.

I think your doctor sounds like he felt threatened by you, where he should

be encouraged by your involvement and sense of responsibility in your own

health and recovery. Is this doctor an endocrinologist or a general

practitioner? Any chance of getting a different one? (sorry if I have

missed any posts about this im?/possibility? ).

I wish there was some central organising body or ombudsman type of thing

that had the job of evaluating the " treatment of choice " in conventional

medicene. I would continually forward e-mails like yours to it!

You'll get there! Have you tried the bugleweed herb (in tincture form) - I

have started taking it and believe it makes a difference; it is supposed to

act directly on the antibodies, blocknig them from attacking the thyroid

gland.

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: <graves_support >

>Subject: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:07:43 -0600

>

>Sigh, well I am now officially joining the ranks of those disappointed and

>discouraged by their doctors. I was trying not to be pessimistic and giving

>my doc the benefit of the doubt, but and all you others who warned me

>were right on target!

>

>Doc wanted to discuss my latest lab results (where my FT4 and FT3 were

>normal, TSI were in normal range, but TSH was still .03) Apparently all he

>cared about was that the TSH was still .03. He recommended that I do RAI.

>Said that my thyroid is still hyperfunctioning and that most women in my

>situation (why particularly did he say women I wondered) would have had the

>RAI by now. Geez! I was just diagnosed 6 months ago, and my FT4 was only

>elevated for 3 of those months, and even the TSH has only been low for less

>than a year.

>

>He was concerned that my TSH was still too low and I pointed out that

>perhaps it just hasn't had enough time to come back up yet since my FT4 has

>only been coming down for the last 4 months and said that I'd read that it

>can take TSH 18 months to increase. (Apparently my doc needs to read your

>article about TSH on Suite 101, Elaine.) He then argued that it doesn't

>take

>that long because the TSH is a much more sensitive measurement of thyroid

>function. True, I said, but it can take time for the pituitary to respond

>to

>the changes. His argument for TSH not taking that long to respond was that

>when you're hypo and you decrease the amount of replacement T4 you're

>taking, you will see an increase in TSH in about 4 weeks. Sure, I accept

>this as being true, but didn't know the specific mechanism for why hypers'

>TSH takes longer to respond, and found it pointless to argue since he was

>so

>firm in his convictions.

>

>I asked what would be the point of having RAI at this point in time, since

>my FT4 and FT3 are normal and my TSI have gone down? If I had RAI, my TSI

>would most likely increase and I would surely become hypo. He asked why I

>thought my TSI would increase and I explained about the RAI initially

>making

>hyper worse from the blasting effect and elevating the TSI levels and

>possibly developing GO. He said, " Oh, that (the TSI becoming elevated)

>rarely ever happens! "

>

>He also refused to even consider the possibility that I may become hypO or

>may also have Hashimoto's antibodies. I suggested that it wouldn't be too

>unreasonable to believe since my mother has Hashimoto's. He said that

>Hashimoto's was very rare and thyroid diseases aren't often familial. OK,

>now I can recognize this as total BS! My mom's family has a very long line

>of thyroid disease, both hyper and hypo, autoimmune and not! I completely

>lost any credibility I had for him at that junction. He also said it was

>very unlikely that I would have TSH receptor blocking antibodies after I

>suggested that. (Yeah, buddy, but I'm already a statistical anomaly).

>

>Now, to his credit (what little is left), his is still willing to have my

>labwork checked every 3 months and monitor. I posed a hypothetical question

>as to what he would think if next time I had my labs done in 3 months if my

>FT4 was BELOW normal (currently it's 0.85 in a range of 0.71 - 1.85). He

>asked what hypothetically my TSH would be and I suggested that it would

>still be below normal range (because I don't think it's going to go up

>_that_ much in 3 months!). I was wondering if he would consider the

>possibility that I had Hashi's if that occurred, but he said if my TSH was

>still below normal even if the FT4 was below normal he would consider me

>hyperthyroid. So now I have no idea what I will do now if that does in fact

>happen. (Yes, I like to worry about all my possibilities, but this one

>doesn't seem too unreasonable the way I'm going.)

>

>For all you on ATDs, Pam I think in particular mentioned that while you

>were

>on ATDs, your FT4 did go low and your TSH was still low. Did you in fact

>FEEL hypo in that case? I got the impression that the FT4 levels did

>accurately reflect whether people felt hypo, but this doctor makes me think

>that isn't so! And I know there were so many of you that your TSH did take

>a

>long to time increase on ATDs.

>

>, what exactly happened when you went hypo after being diagnosed with

>GD

>and going into spontaneous remission? Did your doctors have a difficult

>time

>believing it? How and when did they consider the possibility that you might

>have had GD and HT both? We can certainly take this off-line if it's you

>don't think it's pertinent to the group as a whole.

>

>Man, just when I was feeling so happy about my new lab results! I'm a bit

>disillusioned now. I can really understand how easily people are pushed

>into

>RAI now. I was so calm and non-threatening, I was just asking questions

>backed up by facts I had read. I really hate when doctors get so defensive

>when you question their recommendations. I feel almost as though I have

>done

>something wrong by becoming more informed about my disease.

>

>Sorry to be so long-winded! Didn't mean to just pour my guts out all over

>the group! I was just wishing I had someone to call and vent to after the

>appointment, someone who understood what I was talking about with all the

>thyroid terms, anyway! My parents are in Florida on a much deserved

>vacation, and I didn't want to get Mom all riled up when she's supposed to

>be relaxing. My hubby just announced that we're going to have to close up

>his business (he's self-employed) and get a " real job " so he's REALLY

>depressed about that. He graciously listened to my vent and sympathized,

>but

>he's got enough to worry about now in how to tell our employees.

>

>So thanks if you've made it this far and are still awake (maybe I've found

>the cure for those with sleep problems!) I appreciate you all being there

>to

>listen! In the big scheme of things, this really isn't a major problem,

>what's important is that I'm getting better. It's just another

>disappointment in a day of too many disappointments already!

>

>Hope you all are having a better day and feeling good (special good luck to

>)

>

>

>

> Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

>you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

>prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Take heart! Remember you are on the right road to remission, even though

you have an incompetent doctor. You are still in the " good postion to

acheive remission " that you were before you saw the doctor.

If you are anything like I was in your position a year ago, you will be

feeling that it's just not fair to get a chronic illness that seems to be

related to stress, and then have the stress of " taking on " the medical

profession and having to fight them to get well!

The doctor is right that TSH is a sensitive tool for indicating thyroid

problems, but this is not the case once you are taking ATDs - I am not sure

of the delay mechanism either, but I will sit and think about it today

sometime and if I work it out or find the theory in a book I'll post it,

I'll definitely look it up in a book or two.

I thought your e-mail was really intelligent, enquiring and well informed.

I think your doctor sounds like he felt threatened by you, where he should

be encouraged by your involvement and sense of responsibility in your own

health and recovery. Is this doctor an endocrinologist or a general

practitioner? Any chance of getting a different one? (sorry if I have

missed any posts about this im?/possibility? ).

I wish there was some central organising body or ombudsman type of thing

that had the job of evaluating the " treatment of choice " in conventional

medicene. I would continually forward e-mails like yours to it!

You'll get there! Have you tried the bugleweed herb (in tincture form) - I

have started taking it and believe it makes a difference; it is supposed to

act directly on the antibodies, blocknig them from attacking the thyroid

gland.

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: <graves_support >

>Subject: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:07:43 -0600

>

>Sigh, well I am now officially joining the ranks of those disappointed and

>discouraged by their doctors. I was trying not to be pessimistic and giving

>my doc the benefit of the doubt, but and all you others who warned me

>were right on target!

>

>Doc wanted to discuss my latest lab results (where my FT4 and FT3 were

>normal, TSI were in normal range, but TSH was still .03) Apparently all he

>cared about was that the TSH was still .03. He recommended that I do RAI.

>Said that my thyroid is still hyperfunctioning and that most women in my

>situation (why particularly did he say women I wondered) would have had the

>RAI by now. Geez! I was just diagnosed 6 months ago, and my FT4 was only

>elevated for 3 of those months, and even the TSH has only been low for less

>than a year.

>

>He was concerned that my TSH was still too low and I pointed out that

>perhaps it just hasn't had enough time to come back up yet since my FT4 has

>only been coming down for the last 4 months and said that I'd read that it

>can take TSH 18 months to increase. (Apparently my doc needs to read your

>article about TSH on Suite 101, Elaine.) He then argued that it doesn't

>take

>that long because the TSH is a much more sensitive measurement of thyroid

>function. True, I said, but it can take time for the pituitary to respond

>to

>the changes. His argument for TSH not taking that long to respond was that

>when you're hypo and you decrease the amount of replacement T4 you're

>taking, you will see an increase in TSH in about 4 weeks. Sure, I accept

>this as being true, but didn't know the specific mechanism for why hypers'

>TSH takes longer to respond, and found it pointless to argue since he was

>so

>firm in his convictions.

>

>I asked what would be the point of having RAI at this point in time, since

>my FT4 and FT3 are normal and my TSI have gone down? If I had RAI, my TSI

>would most likely increase and I would surely become hypo. He asked why I

>thought my TSI would increase and I explained about the RAI initially

>making

>hyper worse from the blasting effect and elevating the TSI levels and

>possibly developing GO. He said, " Oh, that (the TSI becoming elevated)

>rarely ever happens! "

>

>He also refused to even consider the possibility that I may become hypO or

>may also have Hashimoto's antibodies. I suggested that it wouldn't be too

>unreasonable to believe since my mother has Hashimoto's. He said that

>Hashimoto's was very rare and thyroid diseases aren't often familial. OK,

>now I can recognize this as total BS! My mom's family has a very long line

>of thyroid disease, both hyper and hypo, autoimmune and not! I completely

>lost any credibility I had for him at that junction. He also said it was

>very unlikely that I would have TSH receptor blocking antibodies after I

>suggested that. (Yeah, buddy, but I'm already a statistical anomaly).

>

>Now, to his credit (what little is left), his is still willing to have my

>labwork checked every 3 months and monitor. I posed a hypothetical question

>as to what he would think if next time I had my labs done in 3 months if my

>FT4 was BELOW normal (currently it's 0.85 in a range of 0.71 - 1.85). He

>asked what hypothetically my TSH would be and I suggested that it would

>still be below normal range (because I don't think it's going to go up

>_that_ much in 3 months!). I was wondering if he would consider the

>possibility that I had Hashi's if that occurred, but he said if my TSH was

>still below normal even if the FT4 was below normal he would consider me

>hyperthyroid. So now I have no idea what I will do now if that does in fact

>happen. (Yes, I like to worry about all my possibilities, but this one

>doesn't seem too unreasonable the way I'm going.)

>

>For all you on ATDs, Pam I think in particular mentioned that while you

>were

>on ATDs, your FT4 did go low and your TSH was still low. Did you in fact

>FEEL hypo in that case? I got the impression that the FT4 levels did

>accurately reflect whether people felt hypo, but this doctor makes me think

>that isn't so! And I know there were so many of you that your TSH did take

>a

>long to time increase on ATDs.

>

>, what exactly happened when you went hypo after being diagnosed with

>GD

>and going into spontaneous remission? Did your doctors have a difficult

>time

>believing it? How and when did they consider the possibility that you might

>have had GD and HT both? We can certainly take this off-line if it's you

>don't think it's pertinent to the group as a whole.

>

>Man, just when I was feeling so happy about my new lab results! I'm a bit

>disillusioned now. I can really understand how easily people are pushed

>into

>RAI now. I was so calm and non-threatening, I was just asking questions

>backed up by facts I had read. I really hate when doctors get so defensive

>when you question their recommendations. I feel almost as though I have

>done

>something wrong by becoming more informed about my disease.

>

>Sorry to be so long-winded! Didn't mean to just pour my guts out all over

>the group! I was just wishing I had someone to call and vent to after the

>appointment, someone who understood what I was talking about with all the

>thyroid terms, anyway! My parents are in Florida on a much deserved

>vacation, and I didn't want to get Mom all riled up when she's supposed to

>be relaxing. My hubby just announced that we're going to have to close up

>his business (he's self-employed) and get a " real job " so he's REALLY

>depressed about that. He graciously listened to my vent and sympathized,

>but

>he's got enough to worry about now in how to tell our employees.

>

>So thanks if you've made it this far and are still awake (maybe I've found

>the cure for those with sleep problems!) I appreciate you all being there

>to

>listen! In the big scheme of things, this really isn't a major problem,

>what's important is that I'm getting better. It's just another

>disappointment in a day of too many disappointments already!

>

>Hope you all are having a better day and feeling good (special good luck to

>)

>

>

>

> Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

>you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

>prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Me again... I just read the answer to one of your questions about the delay

in TSH returning, in one of Elaine's posts answering someone else.

She says that TSH can be low because of antibodies (recent research shows)

your pituitry gland can mistake stimulating TRAbs for TSH, so thinking that

you have enough TSH in your blood stream, it stops releasing TSH.

That sort of makes sense of why people who are hyperT, but have their FT3

and FT4 in range controlled by ATDs, still have a low or undetectable TSH.

The pituitry (I can never spell that right) is responding to the presence of

antibodies in the thyroid gland, rather than responding to the levels of

active thyroid hormone in the blood.

It makes sense to me that doctors do not realise this or take this into

account, as this is to do with the auto-immune nature of the problem which

seems to be the last consideration with this disease, rather than with

actual thryoid function which doctors feel more comfortable about

manipulating.

Hope that helps.

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: <graves_support >

>Subject: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:07:43 -0600

>

>Sigh, well I am now officially joining the ranks of those disappointed and

>discouraged by their doctors. I was trying not to be pessimistic and giving

>my doc the benefit of the doubt, but and all you others who warned me

>were right on target!

>

>Doc wanted to discuss my latest lab results (where my FT4 and FT3 were

>normal, TSI were in normal range, but TSH was still .03) Apparently all he

>cared about was that the TSH was still .03. He recommended that I do RAI.

>Said that my thyroid is still hyperfunctioning and that most women in my

>situation (why particularly did he say women I wondered) would have had the

>RAI by now. Geez! I was just diagnosed 6 months ago, and my FT4 was only

>elevated for 3 of those months, and even the TSH has only been low for less

>than a year.

>

>He was concerned that my TSH was still too low and I pointed out that

>perhaps it just hasn't had enough time to come back up yet since my FT4 has

>only been coming down for the last 4 months and said that I'd read that it

>can take TSH 18 months to increase. (Apparently my doc needs to read your

>article about TSH on Suite 101, Elaine.) He then argued that it doesn't

>take

>that long because the TSH is a much more sensitive measurement of thyroid

>function. True, I said, but it can take time for the pituitary to respond

>to

>the changes. His argument for TSH not taking that long to respond was that

>when you're hypo and you decrease the amount of replacement T4 you're

>taking, you will see an increase in TSH in about 4 weeks. Sure, I accept

>this as being true, but didn't know the specific mechanism for why hypers'

>TSH takes longer to respond, and found it pointless to argue since he was

>so

>firm in his convictions.

>

>I asked what would be the point of having RAI at this point in time, since

>my FT4 and FT3 are normal and my TSI have gone down? If I had RAI, my TSI

>would most likely increase and I would surely become hypo. He asked why I

>thought my TSI would increase and I explained about the RAI initially

>making

>hyper worse from the blasting effect and elevating the TSI levels and

>possibly developing GO. He said, " Oh, that (the TSI becoming elevated)

>rarely ever happens! "

>

>He also refused to even consider the possibility that I may become hypO or

>may also have Hashimoto's antibodies. I suggested that it wouldn't be too

>unreasonable to believe since my mother has Hashimoto's. He said that

>Hashimoto's was very rare and thyroid diseases aren't often familial. OK,

>now I can recognize this as total BS! My mom's family has a very long line

>of thyroid disease, both hyper and hypo, autoimmune and not! I completely

>lost any credibility I had for him at that junction. He also said it was

>very unlikely that I would have TSH receptor blocking antibodies after I

>suggested that. (Yeah, buddy, but I'm already a statistical anomaly).

>

>Now, to his credit (what little is left), his is still willing to have my

>labwork checked every 3 months and monitor. I posed a hypothetical question

>as to what he would think if next time I had my labs done in 3 months if my

>FT4 was BELOW normal (currently it's 0.85 in a range of 0.71 - 1.85). He

>asked what hypothetically my TSH would be and I suggested that it would

>still be below normal range (because I don't think it's going to go up

>_that_ much in 3 months!). I was wondering if he would consider the

>possibility that I had Hashi's if that occurred, but he said if my TSH was

>still below normal even if the FT4 was below normal he would consider me

>hyperthyroid. So now I have no idea what I will do now if that does in fact

>happen. (Yes, I like to worry about all my possibilities, but this one

>doesn't seem too unreasonable the way I'm going.)

>

>For all you on ATDs, Pam I think in particular mentioned that while you

>were

>on ATDs, your FT4 did go low and your TSH was still low. Did you in fact

>FEEL hypo in that case? I got the impression that the FT4 levels did

>accurately reflect whether people felt hypo, but this doctor makes me think

>that isn't so! And I know there were so many of you that your TSH did take

>a

>long to time increase on ATDs.

>

>, what exactly happened when you went hypo after being diagnosed with

>GD

>and going into spontaneous remission? Did your doctors have a difficult

>time

>believing it? How and when did they consider the possibility that you might

>have had GD and HT both? We can certainly take this off-line if it's you

>don't think it's pertinent to the group as a whole.

>

>Man, just when I was feeling so happy about my new lab results! I'm a bit

>disillusioned now. I can really understand how easily people are pushed

>into

>RAI now. I was so calm and non-threatening, I was just asking questions

>backed up by facts I had read. I really hate when doctors get so defensive

>when you question their recommendations. I feel almost as though I have

>done

>something wrong by becoming more informed about my disease.

>

>Sorry to be so long-winded! Didn't mean to just pour my guts out all over

>the group! I was just wishing I had someone to call and vent to after the

>appointment, someone who understood what I was talking about with all the

>thyroid terms, anyway! My parents are in Florida on a much deserved

>vacation, and I didn't want to get Mom all riled up when she's supposed to

>be relaxing. My hubby just announced that we're going to have to close up

>his business (he's self-employed) and get a " real job " so he's REALLY

>depressed about that. He graciously listened to my vent and sympathized,

>but

>he's got enough to worry about now in how to tell our employees.

>

>So thanks if you've made it this far and are still awake (maybe I've found

>the cure for those with sleep problems!) I appreciate you all being there

>to

>listen! In the big scheme of things, this really isn't a major problem,

>what's important is that I'm getting better. It's just another

>disappointment in a day of too many disappointments already!

>

>Hope you all are having a better day and feeling good (special good luck to

>)

>

>

>

> Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

>you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

>prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Me again... I just read the answer to one of your questions about the delay

in TSH returning, in one of Elaine's posts answering someone else.

She says that TSH can be low because of antibodies (recent research shows)

your pituitry gland can mistake stimulating TRAbs for TSH, so thinking that

you have enough TSH in your blood stream, it stops releasing TSH.

That sort of makes sense of why people who are hyperT, but have their FT3

and FT4 in range controlled by ATDs, still have a low or undetectable TSH.

The pituitry (I can never spell that right) is responding to the presence of

antibodies in the thyroid gland, rather than responding to the levels of

active thyroid hormone in the blood.

It makes sense to me that doctors do not realise this or take this into

account, as this is to do with the auto-immune nature of the problem which

seems to be the last consideration with this disease, rather than with

actual thryoid function which doctors feel more comfortable about

manipulating.

Hope that helps.

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: <graves_support >

>Subject: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:07:43 -0600

>

>Sigh, well I am now officially joining the ranks of those disappointed and

>discouraged by their doctors. I was trying not to be pessimistic and giving

>my doc the benefit of the doubt, but and all you others who warned me

>were right on target!

>

>Doc wanted to discuss my latest lab results (where my FT4 and FT3 were

>normal, TSI were in normal range, but TSH was still .03) Apparently all he

>cared about was that the TSH was still .03. He recommended that I do RAI.

>Said that my thyroid is still hyperfunctioning and that most women in my

>situation (why particularly did he say women I wondered) would have had the

>RAI by now. Geez! I was just diagnosed 6 months ago, and my FT4 was only

>elevated for 3 of those months, and even the TSH has only been low for less

>than a year.

>

>He was concerned that my TSH was still too low and I pointed out that

>perhaps it just hasn't had enough time to come back up yet since my FT4 has

>only been coming down for the last 4 months and said that I'd read that it

>can take TSH 18 months to increase. (Apparently my doc needs to read your

>article about TSH on Suite 101, Elaine.) He then argued that it doesn't

>take

>that long because the TSH is a much more sensitive measurement of thyroid

>function. True, I said, but it can take time for the pituitary to respond

>to

>the changes. His argument for TSH not taking that long to respond was that

>when you're hypo and you decrease the amount of replacement T4 you're

>taking, you will see an increase in TSH in about 4 weeks. Sure, I accept

>this as being true, but didn't know the specific mechanism for why hypers'

>TSH takes longer to respond, and found it pointless to argue since he was

>so

>firm in his convictions.

>

>I asked what would be the point of having RAI at this point in time, since

>my FT4 and FT3 are normal and my TSI have gone down? If I had RAI, my TSI

>would most likely increase and I would surely become hypo. He asked why I

>thought my TSI would increase and I explained about the RAI initially

>making

>hyper worse from the blasting effect and elevating the TSI levels and

>possibly developing GO. He said, " Oh, that (the TSI becoming elevated)

>rarely ever happens! "

>

>He also refused to even consider the possibility that I may become hypO or

>may also have Hashimoto's antibodies. I suggested that it wouldn't be too

>unreasonable to believe since my mother has Hashimoto's. He said that

>Hashimoto's was very rare and thyroid diseases aren't often familial. OK,

>now I can recognize this as total BS! My mom's family has a very long line

>of thyroid disease, both hyper and hypo, autoimmune and not! I completely

>lost any credibility I had for him at that junction. He also said it was

>very unlikely that I would have TSH receptor blocking antibodies after I

>suggested that. (Yeah, buddy, but I'm already a statistical anomaly).

>

>Now, to his credit (what little is left), his is still willing to have my

>labwork checked every 3 months and monitor. I posed a hypothetical question

>as to what he would think if next time I had my labs done in 3 months if my

>FT4 was BELOW normal (currently it's 0.85 in a range of 0.71 - 1.85). He

>asked what hypothetically my TSH would be and I suggested that it would

>still be below normal range (because I don't think it's going to go up

>_that_ much in 3 months!). I was wondering if he would consider the

>possibility that I had Hashi's if that occurred, but he said if my TSH was

>still below normal even if the FT4 was below normal he would consider me

>hyperthyroid. So now I have no idea what I will do now if that does in fact

>happen. (Yes, I like to worry about all my possibilities, but this one

>doesn't seem too unreasonable the way I'm going.)

>

>For all you on ATDs, Pam I think in particular mentioned that while you

>were

>on ATDs, your FT4 did go low and your TSH was still low. Did you in fact

>FEEL hypo in that case? I got the impression that the FT4 levels did

>accurately reflect whether people felt hypo, but this doctor makes me think

>that isn't so! And I know there were so many of you that your TSH did take

>a

>long to time increase on ATDs.

>

>, what exactly happened when you went hypo after being diagnosed with

>GD

>and going into spontaneous remission? Did your doctors have a difficult

>time

>believing it? How and when did they consider the possibility that you might

>have had GD and HT both? We can certainly take this off-line if it's you

>don't think it's pertinent to the group as a whole.

>

>Man, just when I was feeling so happy about my new lab results! I'm a bit

>disillusioned now. I can really understand how easily people are pushed

>into

>RAI now. I was so calm and non-threatening, I was just asking questions

>backed up by facts I had read. I really hate when doctors get so defensive

>when you question their recommendations. I feel almost as though I have

>done

>something wrong by becoming more informed about my disease.

>

>Sorry to be so long-winded! Didn't mean to just pour my guts out all over

>the group! I was just wishing I had someone to call and vent to after the

>appointment, someone who understood what I was talking about with all the

>thyroid terms, anyway! My parents are in Florida on a much deserved

>vacation, and I didn't want to get Mom all riled up when she's supposed to

>be relaxing. My hubby just announced that we're going to have to close up

>his business (he's self-employed) and get a " real job " so he's REALLY

>depressed about that. He graciously listened to my vent and sympathized,

>but

>he's got enough to worry about now in how to tell our employees.

>

>So thanks if you've made it this far and are still awake (maybe I've found

>the cure for those with sleep problems!) I appreciate you all being there

>to

>listen! In the big scheme of things, this really isn't a major problem,

>what's important is that I'm getting better. It's just another

>disappointment in a day of too many disappointments already!

>

>Hope you all are having a better day and feeling good (special good luck to

>)

>

>

>

> Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

>you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

>prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Me again... I just read the answer to one of your questions about the delay

in TSH returning, in one of Elaine's posts answering someone else.

She says that TSH can be low because of antibodies (recent research shows)

your pituitry gland can mistake stimulating TRAbs for TSH, so thinking that

you have enough TSH in your blood stream, it stops releasing TSH.

That sort of makes sense of why people who are hyperT, but have their FT3

and FT4 in range controlled by ATDs, still have a low or undetectable TSH.

The pituitry (I can never spell that right) is responding to the presence of

antibodies in the thyroid gland, rather than responding to the levels of

active thyroid hormone in the blood.

It makes sense to me that doctors do not realise this or take this into

account, as this is to do with the auto-immune nature of the problem which

seems to be the last consideration with this disease, rather than with

actual thryoid function which doctors feel more comfortable about

manipulating.

Hope that helps.

DAWN ROSE

>

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: <graves_support >

>Subject: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:07:43 -0600

>

>Sigh, well I am now officially joining the ranks of those disappointed and

>discouraged by their doctors. I was trying not to be pessimistic and giving

>my doc the benefit of the doubt, but and all you others who warned me

>were right on target!

>

>Doc wanted to discuss my latest lab results (where my FT4 and FT3 were

>normal, TSI were in normal range, but TSH was still .03) Apparently all he

>cared about was that the TSH was still .03. He recommended that I do RAI.

>Said that my thyroid is still hyperfunctioning and that most women in my

>situation (why particularly did he say women I wondered) would have had the

>RAI by now. Geez! I was just diagnosed 6 months ago, and my FT4 was only

>elevated for 3 of those months, and even the TSH has only been low for less

>than a year.

>

>He was concerned that my TSH was still too low and I pointed out that

>perhaps it just hasn't had enough time to come back up yet since my FT4 has

>only been coming down for the last 4 months and said that I'd read that it

>can take TSH 18 months to increase. (Apparently my doc needs to read your

>article about TSH on Suite 101, Elaine.) He then argued that it doesn't

>take

>that long because the TSH is a much more sensitive measurement of thyroid

>function. True, I said, but it can take time for the pituitary to respond

>to

>the changes. His argument for TSH not taking that long to respond was that

>when you're hypo and you decrease the amount of replacement T4 you're

>taking, you will see an increase in TSH in about 4 weeks. Sure, I accept

>this as being true, but didn't know the specific mechanism for why hypers'

>TSH takes longer to respond, and found it pointless to argue since he was

>so

>firm in his convictions.

>

>I asked what would be the point of having RAI at this point in time, since

>my FT4 and FT3 are normal and my TSI have gone down? If I had RAI, my TSI

>would most likely increase and I would surely become hypo. He asked why I

>thought my TSI would increase and I explained about the RAI initially

>making

>hyper worse from the blasting effect and elevating the TSI levels and

>possibly developing GO. He said, " Oh, that (the TSI becoming elevated)

>rarely ever happens! "

>

>He also refused to even consider the possibility that I may become hypO or

>may also have Hashimoto's antibodies. I suggested that it wouldn't be too

>unreasonable to believe since my mother has Hashimoto's. He said that

>Hashimoto's was very rare and thyroid diseases aren't often familial. OK,

>now I can recognize this as total BS! My mom's family has a very long line

>of thyroid disease, both hyper and hypo, autoimmune and not! I completely

>lost any credibility I had for him at that junction. He also said it was

>very unlikely that I would have TSH receptor blocking antibodies after I

>suggested that. (Yeah, buddy, but I'm already a statistical anomaly).

>

>Now, to his credit (what little is left), his is still willing to have my

>labwork checked every 3 months and monitor. I posed a hypothetical question

>as to what he would think if next time I had my labs done in 3 months if my

>FT4 was BELOW normal (currently it's 0.85 in a range of 0.71 - 1.85). He

>asked what hypothetically my TSH would be and I suggested that it would

>still be below normal range (because I don't think it's going to go up

>_that_ much in 3 months!). I was wondering if he would consider the

>possibility that I had Hashi's if that occurred, but he said if my TSH was

>still below normal even if the FT4 was below normal he would consider me

>hyperthyroid. So now I have no idea what I will do now if that does in fact

>happen. (Yes, I like to worry about all my possibilities, but this one

>doesn't seem too unreasonable the way I'm going.)

>

>For all you on ATDs, Pam I think in particular mentioned that while you

>were

>on ATDs, your FT4 did go low and your TSH was still low. Did you in fact

>FEEL hypo in that case? I got the impression that the FT4 levels did

>accurately reflect whether people felt hypo, but this doctor makes me think

>that isn't so! And I know there were so many of you that your TSH did take

>a

>long to time increase on ATDs.

>

>, what exactly happened when you went hypo after being diagnosed with

>GD

>and going into spontaneous remission? Did your doctors have a difficult

>time

>believing it? How and when did they consider the possibility that you might

>have had GD and HT both? We can certainly take this off-line if it's you

>don't think it's pertinent to the group as a whole.

>

>Man, just when I was feeling so happy about my new lab results! I'm a bit

>disillusioned now. I can really understand how easily people are pushed

>into

>RAI now. I was so calm and non-threatening, I was just asking questions

>backed up by facts I had read. I really hate when doctors get so defensive

>when you question their recommendations. I feel almost as though I have

>done

>something wrong by becoming more informed about my disease.

>

>Sorry to be so long-winded! Didn't mean to just pour my guts out all over

>the group! I was just wishing I had someone to call and vent to after the

>appointment, someone who understood what I was talking about with all the

>thyroid terms, anyway! My parents are in Florida on a much deserved

>vacation, and I didn't want to get Mom all riled up when she's supposed to

>be relaxing. My hubby just announced that we're going to have to close up

>his business (he's self-employed) and get a " real job " so he's REALLY

>depressed about that. He graciously listened to my vent and sympathized,

>but

>he's got enough to worry about now in how to tell our employees.

>

>So thanks if you've made it this far and are still awake (maybe I've found

>the cure for those with sleep problems!) I appreciate you all being there

>to

>listen! In the big scheme of things, this really isn't a major problem,

>what's important is that I'm getting better. It's just another

>disappointment in a day of too many disappointments already!

>

>Hope you all are having a better day and feeling good (special good luck to

>)

>

>

>

> Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

>you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

>prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh ,

BIG *HUGZ* for you, you need them today. I am so sorry to hear about your

hubby's business...the economy is so rotten everywhere isn't it.

As for your doctor, I really feel so disappointed in what you had to go

through...I wish they would just quit running that darn TSH! I really do

not understand why he is even considering ONLY a pituitary test and not the

good things that have happened with your FT3/FT4 and TSI antibodies.

Maybe next appointment you should print up some thing for him and take them

in...or better yet, take them in before your appointment with a note that

you hope he will be opened minded enough to read them and consider what they

are saying...after all we can (and do) learn everyday, so hopefully he will

do that. I am sure you really gave him some fat to chew on with your very

intelligent questions and the hypothetical ones too. Maybe he will do some

exploring on his own and be man enough to admit he may need to reconsider

some things. He may not admit it to you, but even if only to himself, and

then not be so pushy about RAI you may have the answers when you go again.

Your right, the important thing is that your labs are coming into normal,

that you are feeling better and it is important to keep on doing what your

doing. If push comes to shove, you can always find a new endo if it comes

to that. I hope it doesn't. Maybe you could suggest he buy and read

Elaine's book...so many doctors only know from 30 year old text books what

labs to run, they don't keep up on what is new out there, nor do they really

understand what these tests actually show. Elaine's book would be so

beneficial for this alone, even if they didn't finish the book...which I

couldn't imagine them not doing once they got into it.

Try to take care, I hope better things are in store for you and hubby

tomorrow.

*HUGZ*

Jody

PS I hope no one wants to take this private, it is very interesting and I

think we can all learn, especially the new people from responses to this

thread.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

Oh ,

BIG *HUGZ* for you, you need them today. I am so sorry to hear about your

hubby's business...the economy is so rotten everywhere isn't it.

As for your doctor, I really feel so disappointed in what you had to go

through...I wish they would just quit running that darn TSH! I really do

not understand why he is even considering ONLY a pituitary test and not the

good things that have happened with your FT3/FT4 and TSI antibodies.

Maybe next appointment you should print up some thing for him and take them

in...or better yet, take them in before your appointment with a note that

you hope he will be opened minded enough to read them and consider what they

are saying...after all we can (and do) learn everyday, so hopefully he will

do that. I am sure you really gave him some fat to chew on with your very

intelligent questions and the hypothetical ones too. Maybe he will do some

exploring on his own and be man enough to admit he may need to reconsider

some things. He may not admit it to you, but even if only to himself, and

then not be so pushy about RAI you may have the answers when you go again.

Your right, the important thing is that your labs are coming into normal,

that you are feeling better and it is important to keep on doing what your

doing. If push comes to shove, you can always find a new endo if it comes

to that. I hope it doesn't. Maybe you could suggest he buy and read

Elaine's book...so many doctors only know from 30 year old text books what

labs to run, they don't keep up on what is new out there, nor do they really

understand what these tests actually show. Elaine's book would be so

beneficial for this alone, even if they didn't finish the book...which I

couldn't imagine them not doing once they got into it.

Try to take care, I hope better things are in store for you and hubby

tomorrow.

*HUGZ*

Jody

PS I hope no one wants to take this private, it is very interesting and I

think we can all learn, especially the new people from responses to this

thread.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

Oh ,

BIG *HUGZ* for you, you need them today. I am so sorry to hear about your

hubby's business...the economy is so rotten everywhere isn't it.

As for your doctor, I really feel so disappointed in what you had to go

through...I wish they would just quit running that darn TSH! I really do

not understand why he is even considering ONLY a pituitary test and not the

good things that have happened with your FT3/FT4 and TSI antibodies.

Maybe next appointment you should print up some thing for him and take them

in...or better yet, take them in before your appointment with a note that

you hope he will be opened minded enough to read them and consider what they

are saying...after all we can (and do) learn everyday, so hopefully he will

do that. I am sure you really gave him some fat to chew on with your very

intelligent questions and the hypothetical ones too. Maybe he will do some

exploring on his own and be man enough to admit he may need to reconsider

some things. He may not admit it to you, but even if only to himself, and

then not be so pushy about RAI you may have the answers when you go again.

Your right, the important thing is that your labs are coming into normal,

that you are feeling better and it is important to keep on doing what your

doing. If push comes to shove, you can always find a new endo if it comes

to that. I hope it doesn't. Maybe you could suggest he buy and read

Elaine's book...so many doctors only know from 30 year old text books what

labs to run, they don't keep up on what is new out there, nor do they really

understand what these tests actually show. Elaine's book would be so

beneficial for this alone, even if they didn't finish the book...which I

couldn't imagine them not doing once they got into it.

Try to take care, I hope better things are in store for you and hubby

tomorrow.

*HUGZ*

Jody

PS I hope no one wants to take this private, it is very interesting and I

think we can all learn, especially the new people from responses to this

thread.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

,

So sorry to hear this! However, I have to admit when I saw your post, I

KNEW your doc was calling you into suggest RAI. I've never heard of an endo

requesting an appointment in order to discuss good progress. You have to

understand, he sees you as someone in need of treatment and feels it is his

duty to oblige.

Of course, many of us here think he's wrong.

My T4 and T3 dipped into the very low end of normal while my TSH was still

low. I didn't feel hypo at all.

I began experiencing hypo symptoms after a few months of feeling good with a

tsh of around 1.2 and all other levels mid to low. I began to be cold, ate

less and found that if I indulged at all I'd gain a bit quickly, and most

significantly, my hair started falling out again and I was tired.

But when I went in, my tsh was only 2.2!!! However, my Ft4 and all other

hormones were at the very low end of normal. The endo pooh-poohed my

concerns that even 2.2 was out of my desirable range and dismissed my

concerns over the presence of antibodies for hashimotos and my grandmother's

bout with the disease.

By the time I got a second opinion, my tsh was 3.3, a month later. That

endo disagreed with the first and put my on synthroid. He felt that given

my antibody count, family history, and symptoms, I was sub-clinically

hypothyroid and treatment could stop the progression of the disease. I

instantly felt better, although I was on too large of a dose and became

hyperthyroid for a few weeks.

Here I am now, with a tsh of 1.7 and feel great. I take 1/4 grain of armour

thyroid daily.

Stay the course, . My first endo served my needs for almost two

years! When we came to a fork in the road, I got a second opinion. After

that second opinion, I realized I really needed to search out a physician

that I could stick with, as I didn't want to be running out to new docs

every time I disagreed with one. That process took me a long time, but was

worht it.

Wait -- kids yelling, chaos from downstairs. You're on the right track.

Don't be pressured.

B

Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

> prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

endorsement of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

So sorry to hear this! However, I have to admit when I saw your post, I

KNEW your doc was calling you into suggest RAI. I've never heard of an endo

requesting an appointment in order to discuss good progress. You have to

understand, he sees you as someone in need of treatment and feels it is his

duty to oblige.

Of course, many of us here think he's wrong.

My T4 and T3 dipped into the very low end of normal while my TSH was still

low. I didn't feel hypo at all.

I began experiencing hypo symptoms after a few months of feeling good with a

tsh of around 1.2 and all other levels mid to low. I began to be cold, ate

less and found that if I indulged at all I'd gain a bit quickly, and most

significantly, my hair started falling out again and I was tired.

But when I went in, my tsh was only 2.2!!! However, my Ft4 and all other

hormones were at the very low end of normal. The endo pooh-poohed my

concerns that even 2.2 was out of my desirable range and dismissed my

concerns over the presence of antibodies for hashimotos and my grandmother's

bout with the disease.

By the time I got a second opinion, my tsh was 3.3, a month later. That

endo disagreed with the first and put my on synthroid. He felt that given

my antibody count, family history, and symptoms, I was sub-clinically

hypothyroid and treatment could stop the progression of the disease. I

instantly felt better, although I was on too large of a dose and became

hyperthyroid for a few weeks.

Here I am now, with a tsh of 1.7 and feel great. I take 1/4 grain of armour

thyroid daily.

Stay the course, . My first endo served my needs for almost two

years! When we came to a fork in the road, I got a second opinion. After

that second opinion, I realized I really needed to search out a physician

that I could stick with, as I didn't want to be running out to new docs

every time I disagreed with one. That process took me a long time, but was

worht it.

Wait -- kids yelling, chaos from downstairs. You're on the right track.

Don't be pressured.

B

Re: Got my labs back - amazed!

>

>

> > !

> >

> > Great news!

> >

> > Be prepared, however. Your doc may only be looking at the TSH and still

> > thinking about treatment. Perhaps that's the reason he wants to see

you.

> > Hopefully not, but best to walk in with your convictions solid and

> prepared

> > for anything.

> >

> > B

> >

> >

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

endorsement of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh you guys! You are so wonderful...I was just starting to wind down from

the day and read all your messages. I was so heartened by all your ideas and

good thoughts...it was making me weepy!

Jody and Doris, you're right, what matters is the lab tests are coming back

with good results (at least they seem good to me), and I feel great, and

that's the most important thing. I don't think he's going to be very open

minded. I brought in several articles and Elaine's book, but he was a little

too threatened or busy (he was running 20 minutes behind schedule, so

perhaps this had some bearing on his demeanor) or whatever to look at them.

I really wish docs would tell you they didn't know if they don't know. I'd

respect that a lot more than just telling me something I know to be false. I

really like my kids' pediatrician for this reason. If he doesn't know the

answer right off hand, he'll say he doesn't know and that he'll check it out

and call me - and then he actually does!

Dawn Rose, I have head of the bugleweed and am interested in trying it...I

heard that it was good for hyper symptoms, but didn't know that it could

actually help lower the antibody levels. Do you have any information on how

much tincture to use, or why it's better in tincture form? I do remember

reading that article about the receptor antibodies " confusing " the

pituitary, which can explain why it takes so long for the TSH to increase,

but naturally, I couldn't recall it the moment I needed it!

This particular doc is a GP. I went to one endo (have to drive 35 min. to

get to town where there is one), but he just recommended the RAI and figured

his job was done. He isn't interested in doing any monitoring or anything

like that. This practice is at a big University hospital and it is extremely

busy, so I don't know if I'd get any better results with one of the other

endos there. I think there may be one other practice in the same town, but I

don't know if I'd have any luck there. I may have to try another GP here in

town. Does anyone have any suggestions on questions to ask to determine if

the doc is really knowledgeable about thyroid diseases?

Thank you all for being so helpful and understanding!

Re: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>,

>I think you did great at your doctors appointment. Many times I have gone

in

>with questions and wimped out....so pat yourself on the back for asking the

>right questions!! I'm sorry that you got stonewalled and are now

>disillusioned by the experience, but how you feel and your test results

kind

>of speak for themselves don't they?

>

>PLEASE keep this convo online....we are all learning!

>

>Take care,

>Doris

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh you guys! You are so wonderful...I was just starting to wind down from

the day and read all your messages. I was so heartened by all your ideas and

good thoughts...it was making me weepy!

Jody and Doris, you're right, what matters is the lab tests are coming back

with good results (at least they seem good to me), and I feel great, and

that's the most important thing. I don't think he's going to be very open

minded. I brought in several articles and Elaine's book, but he was a little

too threatened or busy (he was running 20 minutes behind schedule, so

perhaps this had some bearing on his demeanor) or whatever to look at them.

I really wish docs would tell you they didn't know if they don't know. I'd

respect that a lot more than just telling me something I know to be false. I

really like my kids' pediatrician for this reason. If he doesn't know the

answer right off hand, he'll say he doesn't know and that he'll check it out

and call me - and then he actually does!

Dawn Rose, I have head of the bugleweed and am interested in trying it...I

heard that it was good for hyper symptoms, but didn't know that it could

actually help lower the antibody levels. Do you have any information on how

much tincture to use, or why it's better in tincture form? I do remember

reading that article about the receptor antibodies " confusing " the

pituitary, which can explain why it takes so long for the TSH to increase,

but naturally, I couldn't recall it the moment I needed it!

This particular doc is a GP. I went to one endo (have to drive 35 min. to

get to town where there is one), but he just recommended the RAI and figured

his job was done. He isn't interested in doing any monitoring or anything

like that. This practice is at a big University hospital and it is extremely

busy, so I don't know if I'd get any better results with one of the other

endos there. I think there may be one other practice in the same town, but I

don't know if I'd have any luck there. I may have to try another GP here in

town. Does anyone have any suggestions on questions to ask to determine if

the doc is really knowledgeable about thyroid diseases?

Thank you all for being so helpful and understanding!

Re: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>,

>I think you did great at your doctors appointment. Many times I have gone

in

>with questions and wimped out....so pat yourself on the back for asking the

>right questions!! I'm sorry that you got stonewalled and are now

>disillusioned by the experience, but how you feel and your test results

kind

>of speak for themselves don't they?

>

>PLEASE keep this convo online....we are all learning!

>

>Take care,

>Doris

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh you guys! You are so wonderful...I was just starting to wind down from

the day and read all your messages. I was so heartened by all your ideas and

good thoughts...it was making me weepy!

Jody and Doris, you're right, what matters is the lab tests are coming back

with good results (at least they seem good to me), and I feel great, and

that's the most important thing. I don't think he's going to be very open

minded. I brought in several articles and Elaine's book, but he was a little

too threatened or busy (he was running 20 minutes behind schedule, so

perhaps this had some bearing on his demeanor) or whatever to look at them.

I really wish docs would tell you they didn't know if they don't know. I'd

respect that a lot more than just telling me something I know to be false. I

really like my kids' pediatrician for this reason. If he doesn't know the

answer right off hand, he'll say he doesn't know and that he'll check it out

and call me - and then he actually does!

Dawn Rose, I have head of the bugleweed and am interested in trying it...I

heard that it was good for hyper symptoms, but didn't know that it could

actually help lower the antibody levels. Do you have any information on how

much tincture to use, or why it's better in tincture form? I do remember

reading that article about the receptor antibodies " confusing " the

pituitary, which can explain why it takes so long for the TSH to increase,

but naturally, I couldn't recall it the moment I needed it!

This particular doc is a GP. I went to one endo (have to drive 35 min. to

get to town where there is one), but he just recommended the RAI and figured

his job was done. He isn't interested in doing any monitoring or anything

like that. This practice is at a big University hospital and it is extremely

busy, so I don't know if I'd get any better results with one of the other

endos there. I think there may be one other practice in the same town, but I

don't know if I'd have any luck there. I may have to try another GP here in

town. Does anyone have any suggestions on questions to ask to determine if

the doc is really knowledgeable about thyroid diseases?

Thank you all for being so helpful and understanding!

Re: You all were right - disappointed in doc

>,

>I think you did great at your doctors appointment. Many times I have gone

in

>with questions and wimped out....so pat yourself on the back for asking the

>right questions!! I'm sorry that you got stonewalled and are now

>disillusioned by the experience, but how you feel and your test results

kind

>of speak for themselves don't they?

>

>PLEASE keep this convo online....we are all learning!

>

>Take care,

>Doris

>

>

>

>