Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Thank you Well stated and I hope heeded. I need information to 'justify' my decision to leave the 12 step group (a.a.), not only for the naysayers, but also for myself. I don't know how it is elsewhere in the states/countries, but I am carrying a lot of fear and guilt (dished out from various 12 steppers), and want to feel justified in my decision to leave. I think the intelligence here is outstanding as well as challanging, and I would like to participate. The direction I am taking is incubating right now and I need examples to go by. I can't get them anymore from the 12 step groups held around here, and I think if the agenda here were adhered, I, as well as many others, could get going with our recovery, whatever the flavor. Thanks again , " Please, , and Holly, too, and anyone else, do speak up! Bring up your problems, ask your questions, start a discussion concerning the topic this list was created to discuss! I, for one, would be glad to participate in discussions with you. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 : If you haven't done so already, check out the discussion forums at www.rational.org It can be heavy handed towards RR at times but you may get some additional insights to strengthen your justifications for leaving AA. Regards Ron --- r wrote: > > Thank you > > Well stated and I hope heeded. I need information to > 'justify' my decision > to leave the 12 step group (a.a.), not only for the > naysayers, but also for > myself. I don't know how it is elsewhere in the > states/countries, but I am > carrying a lot of fear and guilt (dished out from > various 12 steppers), and > want to feel justified in my decision to leave. > > I think the intelligence here is outstanding as well > as challanging, and I > would like to participate. The direction I am taking > is incubating right now > and I need examples to go by. I can't get them > anymore from the 12 step > groups held around here, and I think if the agenda > here were adhered, I, as > well as many others, could get going with our > recovery, whatever the flavor. > > Thanks again , > > > > > > > > " Please, , and Holly, too, and anyone else, > do speak up! Bring up > your problems, ask your questions, start a > discussion concerning the topic > this list was created to discuss! I, for one, would > be glad to participate > in discussions with you. " > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef name=winmail.dat __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hey A good place to look is the Stanton Peele Addiction Website (SPAWS): www.peele.net It is good for an overview of perspectives, challenging the belief in the need for abstinence as well merely AA. P. > --- r <dcarr042@c...> wrote: > > > > Thank you > > > > Well stated and I hope heeded. I need information to > > 'justify' my decision > > to leave the 12 step group (a.a.), not only for the > > naysayers, but also for > > myself. I don't know how it is elsewhere in the > > states/countries, but I am > > carrying a lot of fear and guilt (dished out from > > various 12 steppers), and > > want to feel justified in my decision to leave. > > > > I think the intelligence here is outstanding as well > > as challanging, and I > > would like to participate. The direction I am taking > > is incubating right now > > and I need examples to go by. I can't get them > > anymore from the 12 step > > groups held around here, and I think if the agenda > > here were adhered, I, as > > well as many others, could get going with our > > recovery, whatever the flavor. > > > > Thanks again , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Please, , and Holly, too, and anyone else, > > do speak up! Bring up > > your problems, ask your questions, start a > > discussion concerning the topic > > this list was created to discuss! I, for one, would > > be glad to participate > > in discussions with you. " > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef > name=winmail.dat > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hi & all, I'm wondering if you can clarify - you're thinking of leaving AA, but what's your main concern? Is it the need for some recovery guidance in place of AA? I wonder this in general about the list. I realize many of us have issues with 12-steps to work through at different levels, but what about recovery itself? I would think with the way that 12-steps keeps you so very embroiled in the recovery process, that sudden detachment without other support is difficult. I doubt there are other recovery " fellowships " as strong/widespread. As I've said before, I feel lucky that my treatment program encouraged me to find and make my own recovery plan, choosing elements from a wide array of ideas. Even then, when it finished, I sought other connections (still do), including 12-step(!), which I found woefully inadequate, unaccommodating, and close-minded. Just wondering what others have done, post-12-steps, if anything, for recovery support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 Think you hit the nail right on the head. After reading your post, I thought to myself, maybe I am still looking for that pat on the head. You know, I think I am subcounsiously. a.a. does give alot of support and head patting with little or no prodding. after 13 yrs., I guess I really don't need it. , I would love to know what your recovery entails. I haven't totally quit a.a. (in my mind) yet, but I haven't really replaced it with anything else either, which makes me dangeling in limbo. Very uncomfortable. Thank you for your response/interest, I think there are more than me looking for support on this list. I know I need it right now. The thread on 'smart' answers to my 12 step naysayers is very helpfull, as I am being annundated with 'advice' from them. The suggestions are helpfull. Thanks again , hope to see more of you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > Hi & all, > I'm wondering if you can clarify - you're thinking of leaving AA, but > what's your main concern? Is it the need for some recovery guidance > in place of AA? > ........ > > Just wondering what others have done, post-12-steps, if anything, for > recovery support. > , , and everyone: As I have been tapering off of AA meetings, I have been increasing my activities around " normal " people, and have observed, that in most cases, there really is no such thing as a " normal " person. Almost everyone I know has some obsessive quirk or personality nuance that those in 12-step groups would probably label as character defects. The main difference between myself and " normies " is that I used to drink to excess and most of them did not. Some of them did drink to excess in the past, and some still do. Now I go out to dinner with people from work. I talk to them about everything; my past with drinking, my problems with AA. And I discovered something else, the old saying " Only an alcoholic can understand another alcoholic " is not true. Most people I talk to can relate to my feelings, if not the uncontrolled drinking. I now go to the gym with a friend from work. We've joined the weightlifting team for a corporate competition. I go and visit other friends. I go to church (which may not be everyone's bag, but it helps me). I volunteer for church activities (BTW-Unity is my church of choice). There is no negativism or guilt at my church. I rent movies, read inspirational/philosophical works, have started up some hobbies, play with my cats, and otherwise do " normal " stuff. However, there is still the nagging feeling of " Oh, no, I'm not doing enough for my recovery...the steps...meetings...I'm gonna spiral off into a frenzy of self-destruction. " It's tough to develop confidence in my own ability to run my life. I keep looking for the ultimate answer to why I used to drink so destructively. The disease theory still lurks in my mind. Good luck, all, and I'm looking forward to hearing about what other people have done. Later, Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > And I discovered something else, the > old saying " Only an alcoholic can understand another alcoholic " is > not true. Most people I talk to can relate to my feelings, if not > the uncontrolled drinking. Yep. Rehabs insist on only having addict counsellors, but there isnt any evidence that that is what matters. I think that (say) a teen Hispanic lesbian anorexic who is doing speed to suppress her appetite is likely to be helped more by someone more like herself than a portly middle-aged white male who quit drinking. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > And I discovered something else, the > > old saying " Only an alcoholic can understand another alcoholic " is > > not true. Most people I talk to can relate to my feelings, if not > > the uncontrolled drinking. > > Yep. Rehabs insist on only having addict counsellors, but there isnt > any evidence that that is what matters. I think that (say) a teen > Hispanic lesbian anorexic who is doing speed to suppress her appetite > is likely to be helped more by someone more like herself than a portly > middle-aged white male who quit drinking. > -------------- That's a very peculiar " for instance " , Pete! I seriously doubt that anorexia is common among lesbians, or for that matter among non-whites. Fleshiness (even downright chubbiness) is admired in most minorities with which I have contact -- and lesbians generally subscribe to a political position that celebrates " the female form in all its variations " and reject Madison Ave. images for fashion, body shape, makeup, etc. A lot of dykes have interesting tattoos, though. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 In a message dated 5/25/2001 12:39:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlomas@... writes: << Just wondering what others have done, post-12-steps, if anything, for recovery support. >> Hi , When i left AA/NA/Alanon after 18 months i got reacquainted with my old friends, never picking up my drug of choice. i was recoverED. After a couple months i felt i needed some direction in my life. Signed up for this list where i was referred to SMART Recovery. SMART is based on science and reason and i am enjoying being a part of it and learning a lot. heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > > And I discovered something else, the > > > old saying " Only an alcoholic can understand another alcoholic " is > > > not true. Most people I talk to can relate to my feelings, if not > > > the uncontrolled drinking. > > > > Yep. Rehabs insist on only having addict counsellors, but there isnt > > any evidence that that is what matters. I think that (say) a teen > > Hispanic lesbian anorexic who is doing speed to suppress her appetite > > is likely to be helped more by someone more like herself than a portly > > middle-aged white male who quit drinking. > > > -------------- > > That's a very peculiar " for instance " , Pete! I seriously doubt that anorexia is common among lesbians, or for that matter among non-whites. Fleshiness (even downright chubbiness) is admired in most minorities with which I have contact -- and lesbians generally subscribe to a political position that celebrates " the female form in all its variations " and reject Madison Ave. images for fashion, body shape, makeup, etc. A lot of dykes have interesting tattoos, though. > > ~Rita I say, that WAS a peculiar " for instance " . I have known lesbians, anorexics, Hispanics, and speed addicts, but not all combined in the same person. If there is a woman out there like that, then I wish her luck in finding someone else out there like her. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > That's a very peculiar " for instance " , Pete! I seriously doubt >that anorexia is common among lesbians, or for that matter among >non-whites. I realized that I might have been over-egging the pudding a bit with all the variables, but you get my point. ( I was going to make her disabled to, but decided to leave that out). Certainly *bulimia* appears to be very much a " white thing " but anorexia among non-whites may be different - I saw a documentary that claimed that research showed that it actually was as common among a particular black community as among whites, but I'm not sure I believe it. > Fleshiness (even downright chubbiness) is admired in most >minorities with which I have contact -- and lesbians generally >subscribe to a political position that celebrates " the female form in >all its variations " and reject Madison Ave. images for fashion, body >shape, makeup, etc. A lot of dykes have interesting tattoos, though. This may all be true, but is only relevant if one sees anorexia as a response to societal pressure to be thin. Although I dont necessarily agree with them, some believe it is a primarily genetic disorder, which is likely though not necessarily independent of whatever factors cause lesbianism. As ever in truth it is probably a combination of factors. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > I say, that WAS a peculiar " for instance " . I have known lesbians, > anorexics, Hispanics, and speed addicts, but not all combined in the > same person. If there is a woman out there like that, then I wish > her luck in finding someone else out there like her. Well my point is that it didnt matter if the counsellor was an addict! P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > That's a very peculiar " for instance " , Pete! I seriously doubt > >that anorexia is common among lesbians, or for that matter among > >non-whites. > > I realized that I might have been over-egging the pudding a bit with > all the variables, but you get my point. ( I was going to make her > disabled to, but decided to leave that out). Certainly *bulimia* > appears to be very much a " white thing " but anorexia among non- whites may be different - I saw a documentary that claimed that research > showed that it actually was as common among a particular black > community as among whites, but I'm not sure I believe it. I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become in certain (more well to do populations within) South American countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I don't), one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are common in people with certain personality disorders like Borderline Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is also a diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are people in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality exist. And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible that our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) Joan > > > That's a very peculiar " for instance " , Pete! I seriously doubt > >that anorexia is common among lesbians, or for that matter among > >non-whites. > > I realized that I might have been over-egging the pudding a bit with > all the variables, but you get my point. ( I was going to make her > disabled to, but decided to leave that out). Certainly *bulimia* > appears to be very much a " white thing " but anorexia among non- whites > may be different - I saw a documentary that claimed that research > showed that it actually was as common among a particular black > community as among whites, but I'm not sure I believe it. > > > Fleshiness (even downright chubbiness) is admired in most > >minorities with which I have contact -- and lesbians generally > >subscribe to a political position that celebrates " the female form in > >all its variations " and reject Madison Ave. images for fashion, body > >shape, makeup, etc. A lot of dykes have interesting tattoos, though. > > This may all be true, but is only relevant if one sees anorexia as a > response to societal pressure to be thin. Although I dont necessarily > agree with them, some believe it is a primarily genetic disorder, > which is likely though not necessarily independent of whatever factors > cause lesbianism. As ever in truth it is probably a combination of > factors. > > P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become in > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. The documentary I saw looked at an black island community (unfortunately I cant remember wghere) without TV and very little access to Western magazines, so they reckoned this cultural influences was small, but they claimed to find the same death rate from anorexia as among white populations. I am dubious about this for a number of reasons, but one important point to remember is that even if the incidence is the same, it still doesnt mean that the illness is genetic in origin - only *one* environmental factor, culture, has been controlled for here, not all of them. Also just as it has been suggested that there are *two* alcoholisms, - a very severe genetic one that only affects males, and a lesser primarily environmental one that can affect both sexes, maybe there are two anorexias - a very severe genetic one (perhaps only affecting females?) and a lesser environmental one that is less likely to be fatal - the latter being influenced by culture. > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I don't), > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > common in people with certain personality disorders like Borderline > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is also a > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are people > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality >exist. Well of course there are some, the question is perhaps how common it is. One thing that I notice is that anorexia seems to be much commoner in gay men than straight men. The few anorexic men I meet in OA seem to be always gay. It also occurs to me that a gay man might prefer a woman counsellor to a homophobic ( or even non- homophobic) hetero male one. I know that another inmate of the rehab I was in was at least considering legal action becaue they how have a homophobic policy of telling everyone that they should be straight (courtesy of Glasser, " Reality Therapy " ). This to me indicates the deeply conservative agenda of steppists. In my day the same guy who runs the place (my sponsor) was telling me that I was really gay and I should get into it. La plus ca change..... P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 ----- Original Message ----- > I say, that WAS a peculiar " for instance " . I have known lesbians, > anorexics, Hispanics, and speed addicts, but not all combined in the > same person. If there is a woman out there like that, then I wish > her luck in finding someone else out there like her. > You live a sheltered life, Holly. I think there is a coalition of them in San Francisco -- only a couple dozen per county here in rural Northern California. By the way, what's the definition of a dyslexic, anorexic, agnostic insomniac? A really skinny person who sits up all night wondering if there really is a dog. -- Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 " Ambiguity " about sexual orientation is very different from homosexuality or bisexuality, which, by the way, are not considered disorders. > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become in > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I don't), > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > common in people with certain personality disorders like Borderline > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is also a > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are people > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality exist. > > And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky > behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible that > our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) > Joan > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become in > > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I don't), > > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > > common in people with certain personality disorders like Borderline > > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is also > a > > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are people > > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality > exist. > > > > And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky > > behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible that > > our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) > > Joan > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 At 12:39 AM 5/25/01 -0400, Lomas wrote: >Just wondering what others have done, post-12-steps, if anything, for >recovery support. I was involved with SOS (the unhooked.com site and many groups have apparently changed names to LSR) off and on for many years - when I first went to it I still had a lot of 12-step beliefs and influence, and the SOS meetings I went to felt 'cold'. The truth was that very little time was spent telling others what to do, and it was the in- your-face, in-your-life attitude of AA that I was missing in SOS. In later years my attendance at SOS and AA was more attempts at socialization than anything - I 'recovered from drinking' in the first year or so of abstinence, and have since not felt the need to to any 'recovery work' having to do with drinking. But check the usual links - there are many online recovery alternatives, and possibly 'real' meetings in your area. > ----- This post (except quoted portions) Copyright 2001, Ben Bradley. http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 It occurred to me after I wrote that and sent it that what you said actually didn't mean that you thought these were disorders, I was just kind of confused by the way you phrased it. Sorry. > > > > > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become > in > > > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > > > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > > > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > > > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > > > > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I > don't), > > > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > > > common in people with certain personality disorders like > Borderline > > > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is > also > > a > > > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are > people > > > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality > > exist. > > > > > > And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky > > > behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible > that > > > our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) > > > Joan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become in > > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > The documentary I saw looked at an black island community > (unfortunately I cant remember wghere) without TV and very little > access to Western magazines, so they reckoned this cultural influences > was small, but they claimed to find the same death rate from anorexia > as among white populations. I am dubious about this for a number of > reasons, but one important point to remember is that even if the > incidence is the same, it still doesnt mean that the illness is > genetic in origin - only *one* environmental factor, culture, has been > controlled for here, not all of them. Also just as it has been > suggested that there are *two* alcoholisms, - a very severe genetic > one that only affects males, and a lesser primarily environmental one > that can affect both sexes, maybe there are two anorexias - a very > severe genetic one (perhaps only affecting females?) and a lesser > environmental one that is less likely to be fatal - the latter being > influenced by culture. If you ever run across anything else about this culture, I'd be interested to know. It raises some interesting questions. Most of what I have read about eating disorders blames Western society's obsession with being thin. I guess it is possible we aren't the only ones ever guilty of that. It would seem odd to me, though, if this occurred in a population for whom hunger was a problem, which, of course I don't know about the group you mentioned. It would be strange to see such a behavior among people for whom fat was not an option. > > > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I don't), > > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > > common in people with certain personality disorders like Borderline > > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is also > a > > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are people > > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality > >exist. > > Well of course there are some, the question is perhaps how common it > is. One thing that I notice is that anorexia seems to be much > commoner in gay men than straight men. The few anorexic men I meet in > OA seem to be always gay. There are studies indicating this to be the case. I have always found it interesting because the ideal body image for gay men doesn't seem to be all that different than for straight men. So, why do the gay ones have the anorexia? Here is a controversial question for you regarding what you mentioned above about the two alcoholisms. Is it possible that there are two kinds of gay? I've never met a gay person that thought he or she had a choice, but the biological basis for it has been argued from both sides. Just curious. It also occurs to me that a gay man might > prefer a woman counsellor to a homophobic ( or even non- > homophobic) hetero male one. I know that another inmate of the rehab > I was in was at least considering legal action becaue they how have a > homophobic policy of telling everyone that they should be straight > (courtesy of Glasser, " Reality Therapy " ). This to me > indicates the deeply conservative agenda of steppists. > > In my day the same guy who runs the place (my sponsor) was telling me > that I was really gay and I should get into it. La plus ca > change..... > > P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > > > > > > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become > > in > > > > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > > > > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > > > > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > > > > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > > > > > > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I > > don't), > > > > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia > are > > > > common in people with certain personality disorders like > > Borderline > > > > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is > > also > > > a > > > > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are > > people > > > > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality > > > exist. > > > > > > > > And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky > > > > behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible > > that > > > > our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) > > > > Joan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 > > > > > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become > in > > > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > > > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > > > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > > > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > > > > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I > don't), > > > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > > > common in people with certain personality disorders like > Borderline > > > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is > also > > a > > > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are > people > > > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality > > exist. > > > > > > And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky > > > behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible > that > > > our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) > > > Joan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 I was once molested when I was about 6 or 7 by an older boy who later ended up in prison.I ended up as a prison guard, but that's another story. Mike. Re: A breath of fresh air > " Ambiguity " about sexual orientation is very different from > homosexuality or bisexuality, which, by the way, are not > considered disorders. > > > > > I saw a documentary about what a big problem anorexia has become in > > certain (more well to do populations within) South American > > countries. So, actually, it is likely that there are quite a few > > hispanic anorexics. Most of them exist in groups that have been > > heavily influenced by US values and culture, no doubt. > > > > Also, if one buys into the DSM (which, for the most part, I don't), > > one could argue that if behaviors such as anorexia or bulimia are > > common in people with certain personality disorders like Borderline > > Personality Disorder and ambiguity about sexual orientation is also > a > > diagnostic criteria for BPD, then it is likely that there are people > > in whom both eating disorders and homosexuality or bisexuality > exist. > > > > And... If people with BPD tend to run around engaging in risky > > behavior as the diagnostic criteria calls for, it is possible that > > our hispanic lesbian anorexic could be disabled as well;) > > Joan > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 Pete writes, " Rehabs insist on only having addict counsellors, but there isnt any evidence that that is what matters. I think that (say) a teen Hispanic lesbian anorexic who is doing speed to suppress her appetite is likely to be helped more by someone more like herself than a portly middle-aged white male who quit drinking. " If I were looking for help, I'd want it both ways. I'd want someone who understands what make me tick and has things in common with me. But at the same time I'd also want another person who does not have just the same damn problem I do. I'd want someone with a different perspective, a different vison. I remember when I was leaving the program and leaving treatment as the significant other of the alcoholic. I was saying that I wanted to get back into the world, the world where there were other things to do and think about besides alcohol and alcoholism. Yeah, there is value in talking with people who share my problem and my perspective. But I can get really stuck there. I can find I'm just falling in deeper. Not drinking, sure, but obsessing about alcohol and alcoholism and structuring my entire life aroung it. Falling more and more into tunnel vision. I need to talk to people who see something else. Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 At 10:46 PM 5/26/01 -0400, you wrote: >Yeah, there is value in talking with people who share my problem and my >perspective. But I can get really stuck there. I can find I'm just falling >in deeper. Not drinking, sure, but obsessing about alcohol and alcoholism >and structuring my entire life aroung it. Falling more and more into tunnel >vision. I need to talk to people who see something else. Stanton Peele once wrote that people with drinking problems were better off associating with " normal " people than with people who shared the problem, whether those people had addressed the problem or not. I agree with you that ideally one would want to have some of both, perhaps at different stages in the process. Still, I think overall I've benefited a lot more just from hanging out and socializing with my normal-drinking friends than from any amount of recovery meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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